Week 12: Bills at Saints on Thanksgiving

[Bubba Gump]

The Bills better win. Puking up turkey, potatoes, stuffing and gravy isn't easy. Kinda like chucking up a garbage plate. Chunky soup anyone?? 🤮

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

No turnovers and he made the plays when he had to. Escaping that sack and running for that huge gain was winning football. He didn’t need to throw for a ton of yards. 

Exactly. He made the plays he needed to. They were never going to throw it much after getting such a big lead early.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Wentz was trash last year but has been playing really well this year. 

That’s an exaggeration. He was abysmal last year.  He’s improved to near average this year.

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Exactly. He made the plays he needed to. They were never going to throw it much after getting such a big lead early.

It was not too different from his performance in the same stadium with the eagles a couple years ago. Actually eerily similar game in many ways. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

I just don’t understand why he would opt out if he was so afraid or Covid and then not get vaxed

It tells you there was something else behind the decision Star made last year…

[finn]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

A beatdown in the trenches.

Hard to deny, but the penalties on third down were a major factor. If the Colts had to punt on two or three of those, it could have been a different game. Still, I think they were going to lose to in most cases. Reich's emotion may have really motivated his team to win for him. Whereas it's likely McDermott was radiating frustration all week at Brown, Star, and likely all the other unvaccinated players waiting to be infected. Palpable frustration, anger and resentment from your coach, especially at teammates not playing, isn't very motivating, I'd guess.

 

McDermott needs to get over his attitude, because more players will be out with COVID. I think the team is deep and talented enough--and has enough heart--to win without even key players. But not with a coach simmering with anger all season, let alone politically charged anger. 

[Livinginthepast]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

No turnovers and he made the plays when he had to. Escaping that sack and running for that huge gain was winning football. He didn’t need to throw for a ton of yards. 

Every time someone slags a QB like Wentz in a game like that I am reminded that Trent Dilfer not Jim Kelly is a SB champion.  Sometimes you just have to manage a game and not screw up. Addisons pathetic sack tackle attempt on Wentz where he escaped and ran for 30 yards was a killer momentum shift.  Also Nathan Peterman would have defeated us yesterday with a running game that good and a defensive unit that opportune. 

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, finn said:

Hard to deny, but the penalties on third down were a major factor. If the Colts had to punt on two or three of those, it could have been a different game. Still, I think they were going to lose to in most cases. Reich's emotion may have really motivated his team to win for him. Whereas it's likely McDermott was radiating frustration all week at Brown, Star, and likely all the other unvaccinated players waiting to be infected. Palpable frustration, anger and resentment from your coach, especially at teammates not playing, isn't very motivating, I'd guess.

 

McDermott needs to get over his attitude, because more players will be out with COVID. I think the team is deep and talented enough--and has enough heart--to win without even key players. But not with a coach simmering with anger all season, let alone politically charged anger. 

McDermott is hardly liberal, so I don’t think it’s politically charged at all. I think it’s more akin to being pissed at employees not doing what they need to do to show up for work.

[finn]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

McDermott is hardly liberal, so I don’t think it’s politically charged at all. I think it’s more akin to being pissed at employees not doing what they need to do to show up for work.

I don't mean he's deliberately infusing politics, just that the decision to get vaxxed or not is politically fraught, so it's not the same as getting angry at malingering or underperforming players, which can be productive.

 

I mean, how should the team process McDermott's anger? Some probably share it, others are likely sullen, since they don't think it's justified, and the ones it's directed at probably feel a toxic mix of shame, defiance and confusion. None of this is not good for the team. I wonder if he applies his vaunted "process" to himself: the guy needs to look in the mirror and stop indulging his emotions. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, finn said:

I don't mean he's deliberately infusing politics, just that the decision to get vaxxed or not is politically fraught, so it's not the same as getting angry at malingering or underperforming players, which can be productive.

 

I mean, how should the team process McDermott's anger? Some probably share it, others are likely sullen, since they don't think it's justified, and the ones it's directed at probably feel a toxic mix of shame, defiance and confusion. None of this is not good for the team. I wonder if he applies his vaunted "process" to himself: the guy needs to look in the mirror and stop indulging his emotions. 

I don’t think the emotions are the issue. Rather I think the “culture” he has created tends to prioritize these types of people. I am not condemning those people, but their views on this issue are decidedly unhelpful when it comes to maximizing the potential for team success.

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Starting to wonder if McD has lost the locker room…. Lose this one and their season is toast IMO.

 

God I hate this phrase. It's such a pointless speculation that's often never true even on really bad teams. Even Urban Meyer survived his little scandal. 

[Plano]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They’ve been up and down for the last 4 weeks looking uninspired in the process. Wouldn’t at all surprise me if there is some turmoil in the locker room. 

uh oh it must be the BiCkERiNg BilLs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 

[bigduke6]

every coach wants to go into every game with the best players he can.   i think McD is just disappointed at the situation hes in,  (he's not the only one)  was only a matter of time before guys who chose to not get vaxxed start costing teams games and or playoff seeding etc.    thats their choice,  and whether u like it or not,  it hurts their respective teams.   McD is just being diplomatic when answering questions about this.   im sure he respects their choices,  but,  im sure he'd rather have his full arsenal to compete in these games.   its a sticky situation.   best ability,  is availability.

 

at the same time,  if u cant rely on these guys,  u gotta make some decisions come next season.   doesnt appear this virus is going away,  and most likely the protocols wont either.   so do u put your faith in hoping that these players dont get it again,  or do u move on.    

 

this problem,  not handled correctly,  will absolutely split a lockeroom,  just as easily as it has split our society.   McD and management are in a tough place.

Edited November 22, 2021 by bigduke6

[Eastport bills]

The most important thing I'd like to see is the team playing with urgency and being fundamentally sound. Get off the field after good 3rd down defense without penalties and stop killing drives with false starts and holding penalties. Be physical with tackling and get some pressure with 4 or 5 rushers. Use Philly's blueprint and get a win.

[sunshynman]

11 hours ago, Draconator said:

I should be able to buy a Cody Ford jersey with that paycheck. 

Unwise investment!

He should never play another snap for the Bills. Unfortunately he likely plays on Thursday!

[Beast]

1 hour ago, finn said:

Hard to deny, but the penalties on third down were a major factor. If the Colts had to punt on two or three of those, it could have been a different game. Still, I think they were going to lose to in most cases. Reich's emotion may have really motivated his team to win for him. Whereas it's likely McDermott was radiating frustration all week at Brown, Star, and likely all the other unvaccinated players waiting to be infected. Palpable frustration, anger and resentment from your coach, especially at teammates not playing, isn't very motivating, I'd guess.

 

McDermott needs to get over his attitude, because more players will be out with COVID. I think the team is deep and talented enough--and has enough heart--to win without even key players. But not with a coach simmering with anger all season, let alone politically charged anger. 

 

You may be correct on these assumptions but I don't think McDermott's anger is politically charged. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Beast

[Roundybout]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They are also the most penalized team in the league…. Undisciplined all around.

 

KC, Baltimore and us were the 4th-6th most penalized teams in the league last season. It didn't affect success for either of those teams. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

KC, Baltimore and us were the 4th-6th most penalized teams in the league last season. It didn't affect success for either of those teams. 

 

Here's the thing though. McDermott prides himself on his teams not having pre- and post- snap penalties. 

He makes an issue out of it in press conferences.

 

That being so, he needs to demonstrate he can get his teams to execute what he preaches.

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here's the thing though. McDermott prides himself on his teams not having pre- and post- snap penalties. 

He makes an issue out of it in press conferences.

 

That being so, he needs to demonstrate he can get his teams to execute what he preaches.

 

Very true, and I feel this is where player leadership needs to step up. 

 

Of course, McD can also help by parking players' asses on the bench when they do something stupid like roll into Wentz's knees after he threw the ball (looking at you Addison). 

[muppy]

12 hours ago, Process said:

This is a much better matchup for the bills. I know it feels like the sky is falling right now but this is a game they should win easily. 

 

If we do lose then the season is truly over, because that would mean the coaches have lost the locker room and the guys have packed it in for the year.

The sky has indeed fallen on a monday after horrific loss yesterday. with 4 days to recover-reflect on THAT now we have the "aints" on Thanksgiving? I not only agree with your post ........but add I honestly DONT think they will lose this game. Gutcheck time indeed. I can't believe the team will not come out and WIN this.

 

I aint packing my lost the season bags yet folks Ima gonna wait to see this play out . 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

I am sure the Saints will do what they know now what works against the Bills.  They will focus on running the ball. especially if Star and Edmunds are out again.  And the odds are they will be successful, given the documented struggles our D has against that plan.  Can McD and Frazier put together a more effective plan, much like they did against the Ravens in last year's playoffs?  Or will they play the sets they played yesterday and allow the other team to physically dominate the POS?  On offense, they will ignore the run because they know we either can't or won't run, play back in Cover 2, and put tons of pressure on Josh as they also know our O line is weak.

 

Coaches on the other teams adjust their schemes to match our strengths and weaknesses, but our coaches seem to have trouble doing the same.  The coaches need to put the players in schemes to allow them to succeed, and up front our guys on both sides of the ball have to up their intensity and their physicality.  Otherwise I think we are vulnerable to another loss.

[Da webster guy]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Win and win at home on Monday night and all will be ok - lose two back to back national games and McD is gone

 

I get the sense that our issues stem more from our play in the trenches than leadership/coaching. 

 

Firing McD is very unlikely.  

 

Bills will rebound like they did last week vs Jets, and then we get Spencer Brown and Star back, who add some much needed power to both sides of the ball.

[muppy]

59 minutes ago, Plano said:

uh oh it must be the BiCkERiNg BilLs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 

the covid situation could well be testing nerves in the locker room. But this is the team that has leaders and vets to help keep the locker room chill.......Even if the men are at odds with each other where it shows that matters to ME is on the field. Gut check will be a recurrent theme this week. Exhale. Embarrassing yourselves on national television on Thanksgiving? NO THANKS........lol

 

m

 

[MJS]

I'll be at this game. Hope it isn't a miserable experience. I'll be doing enough fun things in the days leading up and days after to make the trip worth it regardless, though.

[Draconator]

47 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

Unwise investment!

He should never play another snap for the Bills. Unfortunately he likely plays on Thursday!

Trust me, Ima not buying a Cody Ford jersey. Incognito maybe...

[Da webster guy]

8 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Kinda puzzling how stuff like this is still happening 4 years on, and how much FA $$$ and top draft picks invested into the DL? Two 1sts, Two 2nds in the last 3 years and money wasted on on FA acquisitions.  Unacceptable that 4 years later, ONE guy being out on the DL and they get abused like this.  Saints don't even need Kamara, Ingram will run all over this marshmallowy soft defense.

Its is frustrating but that was the best runner in football behind a top Oline.

Overall we do pretty well against the run, it will be tough sledding for the Saints.

[Roundybout]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Win and win at home on Monday night and all will be ok - lose two back to back national games and McD is gone

 

LMAOO no. Matt freaking Nagy is still coaching in Chicago. Adam freaking Gase got multiple terrible seasons. 

 

We are not firing McD one year after going to the AFCCG. No way. No how. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by BillsEnthusiast

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

LMAOO no. Matt freaking Nagy is still coaching in Chicago. Adam freaking Gase got multiple terrible seasons. 

 

We are not firing McD one year after going to the AFCCG. No way. No how. 

Bears and Jets had no expectations.  I agree it would be extremely unlikely but going from AFCCG to missing the playoffs could make Pegula think about it. 

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bears and Jets had no expectations.  I agree it would be extremely unlikely but going from AFCCG to missing the playoffs could make Pegula think about it. 

 

I dunno, the Bears had a pretty strong season in 2018/2019. Trubs was playing well, they had a stifling defense led by Khalil Mack, Eddie Jackson, et al, and so on. The double-doink broke something on that team. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

16 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Its is frustrating but that was the best runner in football behind a top Oline.

Overall we do pretty well against the run, it will be tough sledding for the Saints.

We do good against the run...as long as the other team doesn't have a talented runner.

 

Our wins:

Jets

Dolphins ×2

KC (CEH hurt in game)

WFT (Their top RB is laying the year on a cracked leg)

Houston 

 

Losses:

Pitt (rookie in 1st NFL action)

Tenn

Jags (did well here)

Colts.

 

Big time difference in levels of competition. 

 

Saints have Kamara (if cleared), Ingram who has run very well simce rejoining the saints. Same story, new year. This defense dominates poor teams and struggles against teams with actual talent 

 

 

[Sugar High JA17]

The Turkey Gods are on our side!

Take a deep breath & count to 420. The Bills got this!

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here's the thing though. McDermott prides himself on his teams not having pre- and post- snap penalties. 

He makes an issue out of it in press conferences.

 

That being so, he needs to demonstrate he can get his teams to execute what he preaches.

It's called have tougher practices and stop letting them screw around video taping each other. Belichick doesn't tolerate that stuff. Besides the obvious (OL/RB) penalties are killing this team.

[buffalonian]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

It was not too different from his performance in the same stadium with the eagles a couple years ago. Actually eerily similar game in many ways. 

I thought the same thing.  Weather was terrible that day too. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

KC, Baltimore and us were the 4th-6th most penalized teams in the league last season. It didn't affect success for either of those teams. 

It's not just about the penalty yards, which is how the NFL ranks this stat, but when it happens in a game.  A 5 yard defensive holding penalty on 3rd & 18 is worse then a 10 yard offensive holding penalty on first & 10 at your own 30.

 

Yesterday, the offense looked like it was on it's way towards tying the game up after the Colts had scored on their first possession only to have back to back O-line penalties rob us of even a FG.

 

And twice the D committed penalties to let the Colts convert 3rd and long.  That likely robbed our Offense of two possessions.

 

 

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Gonna be tough to regularly coach/scheme your way out of being outmatched on both lines. 

[uninja]

Current mood:

 

[Boatdrinks]

41 minutes ago, buffalonian said:

I thought the same thing.  Weather was terrible that day too. 

True. This team as currently built seems at a disadvantage in weather games. 

[Heels20X6]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Bears and Jets had no expectations.  I agree it would be extremely unlikely but going from AFCCG to missing the playoffs could make Pegula think about it. 

 

The only way that McD gets fired is if a much better coach (like Belichek or Reid) becomes inexplicably available.

 

As others have mentioned, for better or worse, the Bills will not fire a coach whose team improved in record across multiple seasons after one bad year where expectations were sky high.  Especially when a lot of the issues were personnel-related.

 

And no, that one poster who keeps harping about McD going to USC is out to lunch, so that's not happening either.

[Boatdrinks]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It's called have tougher practices and stop letting them screw around video taping each other. Belichick doesn't tolerate that stuff. Besides the obvious (OL/RB) penalties are killing this team.

NFL rules prohibit “ tough” practices. Those days are gone. The Bills haven’t performed well as of late, but do we know what BB tolerates? 

[Nitro]

Tighten up the discipline.  Too many lazy penalties.  I foresee a win on Thanksgiving.