11/21 Colts at Bills, Postgame Postmortem Thread

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Thinking about this game more, I believe it came down to third downs more than anything. Coming in, I knew we had to get off the field on defense on 3rd down. We didn’t. They were 8/12 on 3rd down conversions. 

 

 

Indeed.  And a few times we stopped them on 3rd down we took stupid penalties.  
 

Our first offensive series, seeing Ford take a procedure penalty to kill an easy first down was disheartening.  It only got worse.  On offense how many passes were dropped?  I can think of 8.  

[ngbills]

Bad news is NE is very similar to IND. Fast and good defense. Offense that can block and run the ball. The qb just needs to make the easy throws and be slightly mobile when needed. Going to be tough games. 

[FLFan]

Nothing worked for the Bills today, and they were many players who should be hanging their heads for their poor play, but without question, their best run defender and their best RT were out today for no good reason beside their own selfishness and ignorance.  There were multiple points in the game today, when it still mattered, where the absence of those two player directly resulted in big plays for the Colts.  No excuse for the Bills in not having adequate depth to  survive that but those guys should be ashamed of themselves.  If Star is still on this team next year I will be very disappointed.  Perhaps it’s not too late to save Brown.  A disaster of an effort, a self inflicted, shotgun wound to the head by the Bills today.  

[Bimmer323i]

7 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

What about Edmunds and Feliciano? We are all focused on the 2 starters amout due to Covid, but we are also out 2 due to regular football injuries.

True that… I’m so pissed off still about this game I forgot about the other 2…

[VaMilBill]

6 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Nothing worked for the Bills today, and they were many players who should be hanging their heads for their poor play, but without question, their best run defender and their best RT were out today for no good reason beside their own selfishness and ignorance.  There were multiple points in the game today, when it still mattered, where the absence of those two player directly resulted in big plays for the Colts.  No excuse for the Bills in not having adequate depth to  survive that but those guys should be ashamed of themselves.  If Star is still on this team next year I will be very disappointed.  Perhaps it’s not too late to save Brown.  A disaster of an effort, a self inflicted, shotgun wound to the head by the Bills today.  

I don’t think you can say a player who didn’t play had a direct impact on the game. Indirect…maybe. 
 

Id also take it easy on the selfishness aspect as these players are allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies. If they didn’t want a vaccine that’s their prerogative. 
 

what killed us were a few big plays early (the Addison missed sack and the McKenzie fumble). After that, we just seemed defeated

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

What about using Ed Oliver as a DE? I know he is probably almost to big to play out there, but what about using 2 bigger DTs inside and then also setting the edge with Oliver. He’s probably not a threat to really get around the corner but he’s quick for a DT and that might sure up some of the run fits up front. 

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Nothing worked for the Bills today, and they were many players who should be hanging their heads for their poor play, but without question, their best run defender and their best RT were out today for no good reason beside their own selfishness and ignorance.  There were multiple points in the game today, when it still mattered, where the absence of those two player directly resulted in big plays for the Colts.  No excuse for the Bills in not having adequate depth to  survive that but those guys should be ashamed of themselves.  If Star is still on this team next year I will be very disappointed.  Perhaps it’s not too late to save Brown.  A disaster of an effort, a self inflicted, shotgun wound to the head by the Bills today.  

Maybe the Bills aren't as good as most of of thought. Maybe last year was an outliner than reality. Thus far, this team is average and that includes franchise QB Allen. 

[vincec]

The thing that frustrates me the most is the total lack of adjustments by the defense. Indy basically came out with plan A and that's all it took. With all their coaches, top players, experience playing together, etc. they couldn't change the game at all.

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What about using Ed Oliver as a DE? I know he is probably almost to big to play out there, but what about using 2 bigger DTs inside and then also setting the edge with Oliver. He’s probably not a threat to really get around the corner but he’s quick for a DT and that might sure up some of the run fits up front. 

I think its safe to say Epanesa is a bust. 

[Toyo321]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think McD is only going to take this team so far. He is what he is and that is a above average HC that makes questionable game time decisions and is out coached. 

Frank Reich is a better coach than MCD by a huge margin.

[jkeerie]

15 minutes ago, Bimmer323i said:

True that… I’m so pissed off still about this game I forgot about the other 2…

We're also out Zimmer on D, which totally slipped my mind.

[Best Williams Available]

54 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

In fairness saying anything else would have been counterproductive.

He’s a rookie. You say “You wish your players would make better decisions for themselves and their teammates.” And set expectations that have consequences if not met. He’s the head coach not their friend.

[Thriftygamer83]

Carson Palmer kind of threw it all together for us when he said USC was wanting to do buyouts of pro-contracts of Head Coaches.  Without even analyzing McDermott or his wife didn't really know why he would have such a collapse.  And, now we know why his heart's not in Buffalo anymore if it ever really was to begin with.  Beane can right the ship and find his choice of a Coach when the smoke clears after this season.

[finn]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Maybe the Bills aren't as good as most of of thought. Maybe last year was an outliner than reality. Thus far, this team is average and that includes franchise QB Allen. 

I think this is right, except I still think Allen is special. The Bills are certainly not a dominant team, so let's walk that back. On the other hand, they have most of the pieces in place: QB, WR, and, today notwithstanding, defense. They're still better than most teams  (so above average, not average) and they can probably beat anyone. On the other hand, pretty much any team can beat them, not a feature of great teams. What does this add up to? They will probably make the playoffs, where they're probably equally likely to lose the first game as they are to win at all. Look around the league: every team is flawed, including the ones at the top. Really, it will come down to matchups, weather, COVID, and luck. 

[BananaB]

19 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I don’t think you can say a player who didn’t play had a direct impact on the game. Indirect…maybe. 
 

Id also take it easy on the selfishness aspect as these players are allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies. If they didn’t want a vaccine that’s their prerogative. 
 

what killed us were a few big plays early (the Addison missed sack and the McKenzie fumble). After that, we just seemed defeated

With Covid availability is what could make and break the season. Star and Spencer are key parts of this team that are very hard to replace at this moment and if they got the shot they could of helped. As a fan it sucks but all we really do is watch the game. If I  was his teammate I’d be really pissed off because with all the work put in I’d hate to let the group down and I’d hope every other player would think the same. Jmo

 

With all the studies on the risks of football and the problem players have after I don’t think the vaccination is a very big deal. 
 

At the same time it’s probably best we deal with this crap in week 10 instead of playoffs. That’s if we make it. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by BananaB

[Bob in STL]

5 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Carson Palmer kind of threw it all together for us when he said USC was wanting to do buyouts of pro-contracts of Head Coaches.  Without even analyzing McDermott or his wife didn't really know why he would have such a collapse.  And, now we know why his heart's not in Buffalo anymore if it ever really was to begin with.  Beane can right the ship and find his choice of a Coach when the smoke clears after this season.

Seriously.  What are you talking about?  

[Mr. K]

Taron Johnson has got to make the tackle on Taylor's reception that went for 6. See you next week.

[Norcalbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, vincec said:

The thing that frustrates me the most is the total lack of adjustments by the defense. Indy basically came out with plan A and that's all it took. With all their coaches, top players, experience playing together, etc. they couldn't change the game at all.

Kinda seems like that's really our problem, what were the titans gonna do.. plan A, we knew they knew it, we got destroyed. Colts same thing. I do put alot on our offense too, if the offense could score early and keep pace against titans/Colts then you force Wentz/tannehill to win against our secondary and that's our game. But Colts get an early lead and Wentz can put it in neutral just hand the ball off and make easy play action plays don't force anything. We need some sort of adjustment, we can't just go down by 2 scores and our defense falls apart.

[vincec]

1 hour ago, Maine-iac said:

You can get run on and still win a game but not if you turn the ball over 4 times.  There are things you can overcome.  Turnovers will kill you.

Turnovers are usually a product of being under constant duress. If you are losing and having to press, getting poor blocking, dealing with unfavorable weather, facing difficult down and distances, etc. then you have a higher tendency to turn the ball over. You can't look at the turnovers in a vacuum like they were an isolated cause of the loss.

[Thriftygamer83]

18 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Frank Reich is a better coach than MCD by a huge margin.

Sean McDermott checked out when USC opened up, his family has roots there, his wife has roots there, and why won't anyone else say it?  La Salle Cali was his High School and we all have blinders on he checked out on us.

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, vincec said:

Turnovers are usually a product of being under constant duress. If you are losing and having to press, getting poor blocking, dealing with unfavorable weather, facing difficult down and distances, etc. then you have a higher tendency to turn the ball over. You can't look at the turnovers in a vacuum like they were an isolated cause of the loss.

I watched the game.  Most of the turnovers were not under duress.  The line was run blocking reasonably well.  Allen was hurried at times but most of his bonehead plays he made after holding the ball way to long and throwing places he shouldn't have been throwing.  From the first pick (granted it looked like PI) to the fumble that Motor picked up Allen largely made some bad choices or held the ball too long instead of taking what the defense was giving. 

[Blank Stare]

There was a lot troubling with today’s game. Obviously. I think the team is soft where it matters most - the lines. And that probably isn’t getting much better this season.
 

The coaching? A joke. McD has earned himself some goodwill with me, but Daboll can go if he squanders this talent and doesn’t turn this around. McD also needs to start coaching more aggressively. Complete chicken ***** call to kick that FG on 4th and 5 down 17. And it’s sad to me that fans on this board can call out short term adjustments or improvements they can make, like playing Brieda more or starting Bates, and they refuse. Stubborn player evaluations make me constantly question McD. 
 

However, my biggest concern is a disturbing trend I'm starting to see from Josh. When he gets down on the scoreboard, panic sets in and the mistakes start piling up. He tries to get everything back or right every wrong all at once. We get it Josh, you can throw the ball out of the stadium. But there is no 17 point play. Try just taking what’s there. Claw back in it. Or maybe not rifling it over Beasley’s head on a sure first down. Get a 10+ point lead on Josh, you force him into mistakes. I’m not saying he’s a front running QB, but the trend is concerning. I realize part of this is that he likely feels like he has to do everything himself, which falls squarely on three people - Beane, McD, and Daboll. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Sean McDermott checked out when USC opened up, his family has roots there, his wife has roots there, and why won't anyone else say it?  La Salle Cali was his High School and we all have blinders on he checked out on us.

What?

 

McDermott went to high school outside of Philadelphia and college in Virginia.

 

 

[Toyo321]

The ineptitude of our running defense is all on our LB core.  We should have never resigned Milano.  He is always hurt and again he has not shown me that he can stop the run on strong RB's and teams that are designed to run the ball.  It's no different with Edmunds either.  Same deal with him, Not a LB for stopping the run,  not to mention the pass either..  Our LB core is seriously overrated and always outmatched when we play bruising teams.  Not to mention over paid!!! The buck stops here, LB's job is to read the back field of the other team and stop the run, stop the short middle of the field passing attempts as well.

 

We do none of these well with out LB's.

 

Football 101

 

 

[Blank Stare]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

What?

 

McDermott went to high school outside of Philadelphia and college in Virginia.

 

 

Don’t bother. This dude has been on here all day spewing that nonsense. He’s like a damn broken record. There is literally zero chance McD takes the SC job. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by TheProcess

[Heels20X6]

4 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Sean McDermott checked out when USC opened up, his family has roots there, his wife has roots there, and why won't anyone else say it?  La Salle Cali was his High School and we all have blinders on he checked out on us.

You keep spouting this unsubstantiated nonsense in the hopes it’ll catch on. 
 

Try harder, troll. 

[Boatdrinks]

The Bills have no consistent ground game, don’t get after the passer and have a suspect OL. Probably a WC team at best. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If this team loses that saints game, the wheels are absolutely going to come off this thing. There’s no more learning lessons and putting ***** behind us. You lost Thursday and forget the playoffs. It will be quicksand and just a ***** mess.

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If this team loses that saints game, the wheels are absolutely going to come off this thing. There’s no more learning lessons and putting ***** behind us. You lost Thursday and forget the playoffs. It will be quicksand and just a ***** mess.

Well I don't think the Saints are going to throw for 300 yards and 3 TD's on us so if they win it will mean that either Kamara had huge game or Allen threw it to the Saints all night.  Keep those two things from happening and we should be able to pull this one out.

[BubbaT]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

That’s tough. REALLY tough seeing NE listed under “division leaders.”

Not only are they a “division leader” but with games vs Tenn and two with the Bills, they have a clear path to be the AFC 1 seed. Their ground and pound ball control offense should give the Bills fits. They have better lines on both sides than the Bills and, unlike the Colts, have an excellent defense. 

[RunTheBall]

Our lines are soft. That’s it. No running game, can’t stop the run, Josh gets the happy feet. Done.

 

 

[Thriftygamer83]

7 minutes ago, Heels20X6 said:

You keep spouting this unsubstantiated nonsense in the hopes it’ll catch on. 
 

Try harder, troll. 

I'm not trolling, he and wife have roots at La Salle, and if Carson Palmer let the cat out of the bag about professional buyout, and contract offers; we could be looking at a presser wherein.

"I am sorry to inform everyone that my heart...."

You get the general idea where his mindsets at.

[GETTOTHE50]

McD needs to take a hard look into the mirror and see that good opponent running games will beat his defense. hes as stubborn as they come

[vincec]

5 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

Our lines are soft. That’s it. No running game, can’t stop the run, Josh gets the happy feet. Done.

 

 

This is exactly it and it's not just the lines. The Bills are not a physical football team. Their defense is built to defend the pass, has only one real "run stuffer" in their front 7 and plays nickel as their base scheme, meanwhile they run a spread, pass happy offense with no running game.

Edited November 22, 2021 by vincec

[Thriftygamer83]

12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

What?

 

McDermott went to high school outside of Philadelphia and college in Virginia.

 

 

Thought it was La Salle California campus.   If that's the case then we've got a bigger problem and we cannot keep him if he's having assistance doing his duties of pressers.  

[UKBillFan]

16 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

There was a lot troubling with today’s game. Obviously. I think the team is soft where it matters most - the lines. And that probably isn’t getting much better this season.
 

The coaching? A joke. McD has earned himself some goodwill with me, but Daboll can go if he squanders this talent and doesn’t turn this around. McD also needs to start coaching more aggressively. Complete chicken ***** call to kick that FG on 4th and 5 down 17. And it’s sad to me that fans on this board can call out short term adjustments or improvements they can make, like playing Brieda more or starting Bates, and they refuse. Stubborn player evaluations make me constantly question McD. 
 

However, my biggest concern is a disturbing trend I'm starting to see from Josh. When he gets down on the scoreboard, panic sets in and the mistakes start piling up. He tries to get everything back or right every wrong all at once. We get it Josh, you can throw the ball out of the stadium. But there is no 17 point play. Try just taking what’s there. Claw back in it. Or maybe not rifling it over Beasley’s head on a sure first down. Get a 10+ point lead on Josh, you force him into mistakes. I’m not saying he’s a front running QB, but the trend is concerning. I realize part of this is that he likely feels like he has to do everything himself, which falls squarely on three people - Beane, McD, and Daboll. 

 

Then the big question - is Josh coachable? If yes, why haven't they been able to get him into a settled mindset, whatever the scoreboard? If no, why the heck have we lumbered ourselves with a Quarterback who goes into panic mode at the first time of trouble?

[Livinginthepast]

Wentz vs the Bills in 2019

17/24 1 TD

Wentz vs the Bills in 2021

11/20 1 TD

Both performances are totally underwhelming but what do they have in common? In 2019 the Philly Rbs had 218 yards rushing . Taylor and the gang destroyed that performance today with 264 yards!! Even a mediocre QB like Wentz can excel with decent line and good running game and defeat a stud like Josh. So what the hell has Beane been looking at the last 2 years. Our O line and RBs should have been upgraded by now especially after last season.

[DCbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

Our lines are soft. That’s it. No running game, can’t stop the run, Josh gets the happy feet. Done.

 

 

Soft D line and they've used so many draft picks on the D line.  Nuts

[Chaos]

4 minutes ago, vincec said:

This is exactly it and it's not just the lines. The Bills are not a physical football team. Their defense is built to defend the pass, has only one real "run stuffer" in their front 7 and plays nickel as their base scheme, meanwhile they run a spread, pass happy offense with no running game.

Can "process guys" also be "smash mouth" guys?

[Canadian Bills Fan]

We played today?