[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[flaz]

2 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Buccaneers remove Gruden from Ring of Honor. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/buccaneers-removing-jon-gruden-from-team-s-ring-of-honor

🌚

 

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Buccaneers removing Gruden from ring of honor whatever that is.

So being a bigot & an a-hole is worse than being a murderer in today's NFL.  Or maybe Tampa is much more sensitive than Buffalo.  

[Mikie2times]

It is awfully righteous of the NFL to act like they have ever cared about the rights of black players. Colin Kaepernick was all but kicked out of the league. It was publicly OK at that time to not condone his actions. 50%+ did not side with his actions saying he dishonored the flag. The NFL appealed to them. Now the NFL appeals to the advancement of black people and BLM because more than 50% believe in that movement. The NFL is basically a politician with nobody to hold them accountable.   

 

I imagine, face to face Grudens interactions with black people were fair. Mike Tirico seemed to almost be pleading for his job Sunday night. Gruden had a very positive reputation with his players, black and white.  Still, people sometimes hide the truth in public, at the least, behave differently in private. Some people don't understand the gravity of what they say, others do. I don't think I'm confident I will know exactly where Gruden falls on the scale of prejudice. I certainly do not think he is alone, plenty of executives would likely be found guilty of a putting something in writing that is derogatory about sexuality or race if under the same telescope. Again, no more or less acceptable.

 

Both the NFL and Gruden really are no better than each other.     

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by KzooMike

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Albany,n.y. said:

So being a bigot & an a-hole is worse than being a murderer in today's NFL.  Or maybe Tampa is much more sensitive than Buffalo.  

He's in the public eye right now Pegula's aren't going to kick that hornets nest if they don't have to.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's in the public eye right now Pegula's aren't going to kick that hornets nest if they don't have to.

They've got a chance when the new stadium is built to do it quietly.  Just leave him off the new wall.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's in the public eye right now Pegula's aren't going to kick that hornets nest if they don't have to.

Exactly. Betting the name OJ Simpson isn't plastered on anything at the new stadium.

[billsfan714]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Cant say it any better than that.   I'm mean was Gruden going to come out next and say he doesn't have a homophobic or misogynistic bone in his body with a straight face?  He was in his 50s using the word f----t. he wasn't some immature high schooler. The part about criticizing the league for taking action to reduce concussions is really irking.   Gruden gets to make tens of millions of dollars while the players are the ones who face an array of long term health consequences.  Jon Gruden isn't getting CTE wearing a headset.    He had no skin in the game.

Edited October 12, 2021 by billsfan714

[klos63]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

Gruden should have kept his shyt to himself, but like I said.............

 

Let's dig up everyone's emails and texts and I can almost guarantee you that you will see racist/sexist crap all over the place.

 

Gruden pissed off the wrong person in NFL circles so it was ok to tar and feather Gruden.

It shouldn't matter about anyone else right now. This is about Gruden.

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

It shouldn't matter about anyone else right now. This is about Gruden.

 

 

I’m with you on this. Let’s deal with what we actually know, when we know it. Nobody is saying Gruden is the only bad actor, but there is no point in casting further aspersions without further evidence. Let’s stay on point. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[SirAndrew]

43 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's in the public eye right now Pegula's aren't going to kick that hornets nest if they don't have to.

OJ on the Wall of Fame isn’t a great example of the NFL’s hypocrisy. Mention Tyreek, Big Ben, or Joe Mixon, then we have a legitimate conversation. 

[Coach Tuesday]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

That is kind of hilarious.

[Rico]

Just now, SirAndrew said:

OJ on the Wall of Fame isn’t a great example of the NFL’s hypocrisy. Mention Tyreek, Big Ben, or Joe Mixon, then we have a legitimate conversation. 

Don't forget Deshawn.

[Warcodered]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I can't think this is a surprise for the NFL, though maybe they were hoping enough things would distract from it but I'm not sure.

[Numark3]

Promote Dr Dre and Snoop Dog though for halftime entertainment

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

42 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Exactly. Betting the name OJ Simpson isn't plastered on anything at the new stadium.

 

yep.

 

 

[JohnNord]

 

[SinceThe70s]

57 minutes ago, klos63 said:

It shouldn't matter about anyone else right now. This is about Gruden.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m with you on this. Let’s deal with what we actually know, when we know it. Nobody is saying Gruden is the only bad actor, but there is no point in casting further aspersions without further evidence. Let’s stay on point. 

 

Does it bother either of you that this is about Gruden  and what we actually know came from an NFL investigation and the info they chose to leak? 

 

For the record I didn't drop in here to defend Gruden, but since the NFL cracked the door open I think it's fair game to see what else is behind the door besides what they chose to reveal. If there's nothing to hide that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

 

Does it bother either of you that this is about Gruden  and what we actually know came from an NFL investigation and the info they chose to leak? 

 

For the record I didn't drop in here to defend Gruden, but since the NFL cracked the door open I think it's fair game to see what else is behind the door besides what they chose to reveal. If there's nothing to hide that shouldn't be an issue.

 

 

I’m not looking for more things to bother me. I have enough. If and when more comes out I’ll look at that and decide what to think. I’m not going to hate on the old, rich white guys for no solid reason like some other people. I do not resent successful people just for their success. 

 

When a Jerry Richardson or Donald Sterling story appears, I expect them to get what they deserve. Yes, the NFL and NBA have booted OWNERS for poor behavior. They are not above scrutiny.  I think it’s ill advised to just want to “OPEN UP EVERYTHING”.  I think it’s also unfair. 

 

I was clear that I’ve never liked Gruden based on public and personal experience. I have no such dislike for anyone else in the NFL. If we get to open up their lives, maybe we should all do the same. I have nothing to hide, but it just feels wrong without some cause. Given cause, you get what you deserve. 

[Chicken Boo]

45 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

Promote Dr Dre and Snoop Dog though for halftime entertainment

 

 

 

Not the same.  Entertainers get more leeway for artistic expression (I would guess), no different than comedians.  

 

Bill Burr, who I love, can do a bit about domestic violence and make it funny.  No one with an ordinary job could get away with that.  

[ColoradoBills]

There is a murky definition lately between "fame" and "honor".

 

Who deserves to be in a "Ring of Fame" and why?

Who deserves to be in a "Ring of Honor" and why?

[SinceThe70s]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m not looking for more things to bother me. I have enough. If and when more comes out I’ll look at that and decide what to think. I’m not going to hate on the old, rich white guys for no solid reason like some other people. I do not resent successful people just for their success. 

 

When a Jerry Richardson or Donald Sterling story appears, I expect them to get what they deserve. Yes, the NFL and NBA have booted OWNERS for poor behavior. They are not above scrutiny.  I think it’s ill advised to just want to “OPEN UP EVERYTHING”.  I think it’s also unfair. 

 

I was clear that I’ve never liked Gruden based on public and personal experience. I have no such dislike for anyone else in the NFL. If we get to open up their lives, maybe we should all do the same. I have nothing to hide, but it just feels wrong without some cause. Given cause, you get what you deserve. 

 

I guess what I'm questioning is the without some cause part. As far as I can tell there was no cause to be looking into Gruden. He was the dolphin that got caught in the tuna net. I could be 100% wrong but I suspect there are other much bigger dolphins in the net too that the NFL chooses not to go public with. 

[Numark3]

15 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Not the same.  Entertainers get more leeway for artistic expression (I would guess), no different than comedians.  

 

Bill Burr, who I love, can do a bit about domestic violence and make it funny.  No one with an ordinary job could get away with that.  

Dr Dre has beaten a lot of women.  That’s not artistic expression.

 

you should read the statements from these women and their injuries 

[klos63]

36 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

 

Does it bother either of you that this is about Gruden  and what we actually know came from an NFL investigation and the info they chose to leak? 

 

For the record I didn't drop in here to defend Gruden, but since the NFL cracked the door open I think it's fair game to see what else is behind the door besides what they chose to reveal. If there's nothing to hide that shouldn't be an issue.

 

I believe that there is a lot more bad stuff that the NFL doesn't want out. It's probably BS that this stuff was leaked about Gruden, but my point was in reference to the comment about looking at other peoples emails, texts.... and I thought that was a deflection from this one issue of Gruden. To me it didn't matter if Joe Blow had written bad emails, this was about Gruden, that's all. Not excusing the NFL behavior or Daniel Snyders probably really bad behavior.

[JohnNord]

26 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Not the same.  Entertainers get more leeway for artistic expression (I would guess), no different than comedians.  

 

Bill Burr, who I love, can do a bit about domestic violence and make it funny.  No one with an ordinary job could get away with that.  

That’s not true.  Plenty of entertainers have been cancelled for offensive jokes in the past.  

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I guess what I'm questioning is the without some cause part. As far as I can tell there was no cause to be looking into Gruden. He was the dolphin that got caught in the tuna net. I could be 100% wrong but I suspect there are other much bigger dolphins in the net too that the NFL chooses not to go public with. 

 

I don’t know how or why Gruden was singled out for being exposed here. Heck, it could have even been the same fool who gave him that contract!

 

I guess maybe the life lesson here is……..don’t be a jerk. Gruden had the on air persona that even I appreciated, but there was another layer to the man. A LOT of people learned to dislike him, and maybe that’s why he got outed. Keyshawn Johnson came out and called him a fraud or a farce or something today. That was a common opinion of many players when I was in the Tampa market and he took Tony Dungy’s team to a Super Bowl against his Raiders who didn’t bother to change anything prior to their big game.  I’ll probably never know why it fell on him and (so far) only him. I can’t think that digging thru every single NFL email is a good idea, for so many reasons. 

 

If it was the first D. Smith email and left at that, he’d have survived. There was a looooooong pattern, and he earned what he got. 

[Warcodered]

To summarize my thoughts on the posts about what other people have done.

 

Gruden is an #######, the existence of other possibly greater #######s does not negate the former.

[BillsVet]

De Smith gonna drive the narrative away from himself and onto all the other controversial NFL management types.  First Gruden, next up Dan Snyder.

 

Maybe it works and the NFLPA votes to keep him as their executive director.  Because that's all this is about. 

[thronethinker]

I still dont understand why everyone is so upset about emails a 10 year old sent. 

[LeviF]

Do we know how many offensive emails were sent?

 

Is it greater than or less than the number of women that have accused Deshaun Watson of some form of rape?

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

To summarize my thoughts on the posts about what other people have done.

 

Gruden is an #######, the existence of other possibly greater #######s does not negate the former.

Ah the classic defense of "Whatabout-itis". Often used to shield the fact the the person that used that defense agrees with the offender and is trying (weakly) to defend their own views. One of my pet peeves when topics like this come out as well.  Never ceases to amaze me how many people willingly expose their own nature when topics like these come up.

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

Dr Dre has beaten a lot of women.  That’s not artistic expression.

 

you should read the statements from these women and their injuries 

 

I know of the Michel'le incident.  If we're talking that, I understand.  It didn't even cross my mind.  I was thinking purely about lyrical content.

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

That’s not true.  Plenty of entertainers have been cancelled for offensive jokes in the past.  

 

There's a fine line, for sure.  

 

*unrelated but I used to be a massive wrestling fan.  Any particular reason you chose Nord for your screen name and avatar?

Edited October 13, 2021 by Chicken Boo

[JoPoy88]

51 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Ah the classic defense of "Whatabout-itis". Often used to shield the fact the the person that used that defense agrees with the offender and is trying (weakly) to defend their own views. One of my pet peeves when topics like this come out as well.  Never ceases to amaze me how many people willingly expose their own nature when topics like these come up.

Doesn’t amaze me. There are people all over the place that think just like gruden and they think crude deflections are adequate cover for themselves. Cuz they’re smarter than us, you see? 

[LabattBlue]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/buccaneers/.amp/news/tampa-bay-buccaneers-remove-jon-gruden-ring-honor-las-vegas-raiders
 

Yet OJ remains up on the Bills Wall of Fame. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by BTB

[corta765]

16 hours ago, 416BillsFan said:

I agree with you. But while many owners might want Snyder to go, they don't want a precedent in forcing an owner to sell.

 

Nope and I think there is a lot of fear that if Snyder were forced out he may leak other things which while not at his level would still be really bad league wide.

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, BTB said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/buccaneers/.amp/news/tampa-bay-buccaneers-remove-jon-gruden-ring-honor-las-vegas-raiders
 

Yet, OJ remains up on the Bills Wall of Fame. 

And OJ didn’t say this about the team’s owner: ‘He also asked [Bruce] Allen to tell Bryan Glazer, whose family owns the Buccaneers, to perform oral sex on him. Allen reportedly responded that Glazer would “take you up on that offer.”’

Edited October 13, 2021 by dave mcbride

[LeGOATski]

What'd OJ do?

[Rico]

10 hours ago, LeviF said:

Do we know how many offensive emails were sent?

 

Is it greater than or less than the number of women that have accused Deshaun Watson of some form of rape?

Yep. I still believe actions speak louder than words.

[DrDawkinstein]

And Antonio Brown still plays on their team.

[TH3]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

And OJ didn’t say this about the team’s owner: ‘He also asked [Bruce] Allen to tell Bryan Glazer, whose family owns the Buccaneers, to perform oral sex on him. Allen reportedly responded that Glazer would “take you up on that offer.”’

Huh ...what? He cut the head off his his wife...the mother of his kids....and killed an innocent bystander. 

 

Shame on Bills for keeping his name up there