[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[Malazan]

58 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

Pretty sure he's compensated well to be really, really bad. He's so bad he's good.

 

Ok, you wanted to share that he's compensated really well for not having much in the way of actual results? So he's like a lot of CEOs?

[Tenhigh]

Just now, Mango said:

Well that’s a terrible response to hitting pregnant woman and raping somebody in the bathroom of a bar…

 

Jesus Christ. I’m actually floored. 

Not at all. Those things are terrible and people should be punished for them..  My point is that if someone hacked YOUR phone, and posted your text history to the internet, you'd probably be fired.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by Tenhigh

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Not at all. Those things are terrible and people should be punished for them..  My point is that if someone hacked YOUR phone, and posted your text history to the internet, you'd probably be fired.  

My e-mails and texts are as clean and fresh as the driven snow. 

 

Some of my posts on this board though drifted.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by Rico

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Not at all. Those things are terrible and people should be punished for them..  My point is that if someone hacked YOUR phone, and posted your text history to the internet, you'd probably be fired.  

Nah. Divorced maybe though.   Racism, homophobia, sexism in my opinion is a disease of the uneducated.  Obviously there are exceptions to everything.    

[pocoboy]

5 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

Ok, you wanted to share that he's compensated really well for not having much in the way of actual results? So he's like a lot of CEOs?

 

I get it might be too nuanced for you. He got results, but for the owners' benefit (17 and maybe 18 games the primary one). They leaked an email which very likely helped to get him reelected. Seems like compensation to me.

[Bangarang]

35 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

So what do you want?    Big Ben may have been a rapist but he was never even criminally charged, let alone convicted.  Do you want the NFL to punish every player who gets accused of something?

 

And the NFL did not discipline Gruden.  He resigned.  Maybe he was forced to resign by Mark Davis.  I don't know.  But his departure was inevitable.  Gruden couldn't effectively lead his players with all this stuff coming out.  

Personally, I've lost all respect for Chuckie.  He got what he deserved.  I wish Big Ben and all the other a-holes in the NFL get what they deserve, too.  But, sometimes, it just doesn't work out that way.  

I already said I want the league to be consistent with how they address and treat certain behavior.

[BuffaloRebound]

4 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

I get it might be too nuanced for you. He got results, but for the owners' benefit (17 and maybe 18 games the primary one). They leaked an email which very likely helped to get him reelected. Seems like compensation to me.

Was it leaked before the vote took place?  Seems like it might’ve cone out after.  

[marky]

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Look, I respect all of America's good cops.  Chauvin wasn't one of them.  He killed a man, brought shame on the uniform, and deserves his time in jail.

 

The big difference is Chauvin was caught on video.  OJ's criminal act doesn't have any witnesses at all.

 

One of the tenets of American justice is known as Blackstone's Ratio: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

 

And that's why OJ's free.  Because he just might have been innocent.  

 

That's what it should be. What it really is? Lawless barbarity and lazy fools. Murders are caught on video, and they're let out. The school shooter out on bail. The 70 shot gunfight with no charges because of mutual combat.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Not at all. Those things are terrible and people should be punished for them..  My point is that if someone hacked YOUR phone, and posted your text history to the internet, you'd probably be fired.  

 

I personally live my life according to the "Wall Street Journal Test."  I ask myself: If what I'm about to do gets exposed in the Wall Street Journal, will I be embarrassed?   If the answer is yes, I don't do it.  

 

Obviously, I wouldn't want my bedroom activities to be reported by a media outlet.  But other than that, I'm good with everything I do coming out in the open.  There aren't any texts or emails I'd be afraid to have published.  If you hack my life, I won't get fired.  Not even close.  

 

I'm sure many, many other people can say the same.

40 minutes ago, beavis said:

 

That's what it should be. What it really is? Lawless barbarity and lazy fools. Murders are caught on video, and they're let out. The school shooter out on bail. The 70 shot gunfight with no charges because of mutual combat.

 

You're right.  We live in an imperfect country with imperfect people and an imperfect justice system.

None of that gives me any sympathy for Gruden.  

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, pocoboy said:

I get it might be too nuanced for you. He got results, but for the owners' benefit (17 and maybe 18 games the primary one). They leaked an email which very likely helped to get him reelected. Seems like compensation to me.

 

I think you could use a new razor, my friend. Hanlon makes a nice one. 

 

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

The bucs are going for a super bowl run and don’t want the distraction. They don’t want the players to be asked about gruden and all that so they just ended the story there.  It was the absolute smartest thing to do. 
 

Gruden needed and needs a better apology. Own it, apologize, go on some kind of learning tour and maybe he can redeem himself. 

I think Gruden should double down, ***** apologizing at this point.

[Chandler#81]

Incredible story.

 

Anybody else read the thread title and think Gruden penned a letter when he was 10 y/o?

🤷‍♂️

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

Incredible story.

 

Anybody else read the thread title and think Gruden penned a letter when he was 10 y/o?

🤷‍♂️

I mean mentally might not be too far off.

[Chandler#81]

Just now, Warcodered said:

I mean mentally might not be too far off.

So, I was right?😳

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

4 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

 

Yes, but the earlier discussion was specifically in reference to the wife & friend murdering....the Vegas rip-off was indeed in criminal court. 

 

(This entire discussion all the more shows why he should be removed from the Wall). 

[prissythecat]

On 10/11/2021 at 10:01 PM, Bruffalo said:

Nate Peterman after hearing Gruden is out...

 

I'm wondering if new regime will be as enamored with Peterman.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Not at all. Those things are terrible and people should be punished for them..  My point is that if someone hacked YOUR phone, and posted your text history to the internet, you'd probably be fired.  

 

I keep reading this, and I honestly think it's bunk.

 

It's not like I'm lily pure or something, but I have never made fun of someone with racial memes or used epiphets and sexual innuendo to insult people at the highest level in the industry where I worked.  Neither has anyone that I worked with or who worked for me to the best of my knowledge.

 

You simply don't have to have a very high level of "couth" to avoid that stuff.

[Tenhigh]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I keep reading this, and I honestly think it's bunk.

 

It's not like I'm lily pure or something, but I have never made fun of someone with racial memes or used epiphets and sexual innuendo to insult people at the highest level in the industry where I worked.  Neither has anyone that I worked with or who worked for me to the best of my knowledge.

 

You simply don't have to have a very high level of "couth" to avoid that stuff.

Its not about insulting people at the highest level of anything, its that any private remark could be used to take someone down.  And yes I know that it was his work email, but it really doesn't matter.  Regardless, bully for you if you haven't EVER sent or received and chuckled at an off color meme.  

[eball]

6 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Not at all. Those things are terrible and people should be punished for them..  My point is that if someone hacked YOUR phone, and posted your text history to the internet, you'd probably be fired.  

 

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I keep reading this, and I honestly think it's bunk.

 

It's not like I'm lily pure or something, but I have never made fun of someone with racial memes or used epiphets and sexual innuendo to insult people at the highest level in the industry where I worked.  Neither has anyone that I worked with or who worked for me to the best of my knowledge.

 

You simply don't have to have a very high level of "couth" to avoid that stuff.

 

I’m with Hap on this and call b.s.

 

[Tenhigh]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

 

I’m with Hap on this and call b.s.

 

Good for you, that's why they have the "agree" emoji.  Now stop lamping and post all of your texts online so we can judge you.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Tenhigh

[eball]

7 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Good for you, that's why they have the "agree" emoji.  Now stop lamping and post all of your texts online so we can judge you.

 

If I was (a) a public figure, and (b) sent electronic messages to others in my industry, then I’d happily comply.

 

I know who I am and I know what I’ve written.  I feel pretty comfortable.

 

[Poleshifter]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:48 PM, WhoTom said:

 

I realize the phrase "ten year old" is referring to how long ago he wrote that, but reading what he wrote, I think it also applies to the mental age of the writer.

 

Thank you for posting the actual quote. I had not seen it before.

 

And to call Smith "dumb" in the process - wow, I have lost all respect for Gruden.

 

And Gruden not considering that "emails are forever". What a fool.

[vincec]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I keep reading this, and I honestly think it's bunk.

 

It's not like I'm lily pure or something, but I have never made fun of someone with racial memes or used epiphets and sexual innuendo to insult people at the highest level in the industry where I worked.  Neither has anyone that I worked with or who worked for me to the best of my knowledge.

 

You simply don't have to have a very high level of "couth" to avoid that stuff.

Jon Gruden said the same thing. At his PC he said that he “doesn’t have a racist bone in his body” and that he “prides himself at bringing people together.” I seriously doubt that he’s the only one in the NFL or elsewhere that thinks and says they’re great but actually has skeletons in their closet.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

Gruden was an idiot for writing, WRITING, and sending, those emails.

 

But he used... words. He didn't kill anyone, beat anyone, whip his kids, steal, kill dogs, whatever. Does he deserve some punishment? Sure. But now it fully looks like he will be completely banished from the NFL world forever. No coaching, no TV, no announcing, nothing. All over words. And it was mainly him being a pouty mouth using locker room talk. I see some antigay stuff, but no racism or misogynism. Calling someone a pu ssy, f a gg ot, or saying a dude has fat lips, does NOT make you the worst criminal of all time, deserving of eternal exile. Ridiculous.

 

I don't know where you work.  Where I worked, using the wrong words about the wrong people at the wrong time could absolutely forfeit your opportunity to be employed by a given company, or even in a given business.  This isn't a new thing; it's always been that way.

 

Making it into some sort of morally relativistic matter ("he didn't do anything THAT horrible") misses the point. 

 

Insulting the Head Honchos and owners in writing has ALWAYS been what we called a "Career Limiting Move".

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, vincec said:

Jon Gruden said the same thing. At his PC he said that he “doesn’t have a racist bone in his body” and that he “prides himself at bringing people together.” I seriously doubt that he’s the only one in the NFL or elsewhere that thinks and says they’re great but actually has skeletons in their closet.

 

Not to diminish what you said, but it's not the same thing to say "I don't have a racist bone in my body" and to say "I have never made fun of someone with racial memes or used epiphets and sexual innuendo to insult people at the highest level in the industry where I worked"

 

The former represents beliefs, the latter represents actions.  We assume that beliefs drive actions, but it's not always that clear cut.

 

 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You simply don't have to have a very high level of "couth" to avoid that stuff.

 

Even if you are the biggest jerk in the world, you’d have to be equally STUPID to think that was an OK idea. Who thinks you can do that without being open to facing some ugly consequences? 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

There's no point to be made about how Tyreek Hill and OJ Simpson are worse than Gruden.  Literally nobody would disagree with you.  It's also got nothing to do with who the Raiders decide to keep in their employ.  Just keep building straw men to hide behind while the scary world changes.

[vincec]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not to diminish what you said, but it's not the same thing to say "I don't have a racist bone in my body" and to say "I have never made fun of someone with racial memes or used epiphets and sexual innuendo to insult people at the highest level in the industry where I worked"

 

The former represents beliefs, the latter represents actions.  We assume that beliefs drive actions, but it's not always that clear cut.

 

 

Gruden never had the opportunity to say that he never made fun of someone with racial names because the email plainly showing that he did was already published. My point is that it’s easy for people to say they don’t have any issues or have never said anything questionable when no one is verifying it.

[Mikie2times]

I'm not thrilled at the hypocrisy of the NFL in any of this. That said, Gruden was sacrificed because he said what he did against two of the most influential people in the NFL. Take a shot using the same words Gruden did against your CEO on a business email server. Is that something any of us would expect to survive?  

Edited October 13, 2021 by KzooMike

[BillsVet]

With this latest news, I bet De Smith gets re-elected NFLPA executive.  His position was in doubt after this last CBA, but now is much more certain.  

[Bruffalo]

2 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

I'm wondering if new regime will be as enamored with Peterman.  

 

I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say Petermand is one of the worst QBs I've ever seen play football professionally.  He might even be the worst if you're not taking draft stock into account.  I have absolutely no idea how he has a job on an active NFL roster.

[SinceThe70s]

47 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

There's no point to be made about how Tyreek Hill and OJ Simpson are worse than Gruden.  Literally nobody would disagree with you.  It's also got nothing to do with who the Raiders decide to keep in their employ.  Just keep building straw men to hide behind while the scary world changes.

 

I just saw the first comment from Mark Davis since the Gruden 'resignation': 

 

"I have no comment. Ask the NFL. They have all the answers"

 

JMO, but I think the NFL forced the Raiders hand. Which isn't to say I disagree with Gruden losing his job over what was leaked.

 

Your self-described scary world may be changing but to me the scarier part is it may be that the more things change the more they stay the same with the NFL hierarchy. 

 

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I just saw the first comment from Mark Davis since the Gruden 'resignation': 

 

"I have no comment. Ask the NFL. They have all the answers"

 

JMO, but I think the NFL forced the Raiders hand. Which isn't to say I disagree with Gruden losing his job over what was leaked.

 

Your self-described scary world may be changing but to me the scarier part is it may be that the more things change the more they stay the same with the NFL hierarchy. 

 

Yeah, I think Al Davis would've told the NFL to ***** off.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Its not about insulting people at the highest level of anything, its that any private remark could be used to take someone down.  And yes I know that it was his work email, but it really doesn't matter.  Regardless, bully for you if you haven't EVER sent or received and chuckled at an off color meme.  

I have some sympathy for Gruden since I am also a terrible person with terrible friends who trade salacious messages on many topics that aren't representative of my true feelings.  Gruden is collateral in a legal action between Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen and an investigation into the WFT.  He never expected those messages to be seen by anyone but his friend.  But those messages were made public and they compromised his ability to effectively coach the Las Vegas Raiders.

 

 

[SinceThe70s]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

Yeah, I think Al Davis would've told the NFL to ***** off.

 

LOL, no doubt - I hadn't considered that angle. 

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I have some sympathy for Gruden since I am also a terrible person with terrible friends who trade salacious messages on many topics that aren't representative of my true feelings.  Gruden is collateral in a legal action between Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen and an investigation into the WFT.  He never expected those messages to be seen by anyone but his friend.  But those messages were made public and they compromised his ability to effectively coach the Las Vegas Raiders.

 

 

Just don't be dumb enough to do it via e-mail.

[Rico]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Just don't be dumb enough to do it via e-mail.

Exactly.

 

I have worked for total POS in my career, and I have cussed them out behind their back, but I'm not stupid enough to put it in an e-mail or text DOH.

 

 

[CSBill]

26 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I just saw the first comment from Mark Davis since the Gruden 'resignation': 

 

"I have no comment. Ask the NFL. They have all the answers"

 

 

Wow! This invites a lot of questions. This saga is just getting started. Obviously Davis is not happy. Or is it the 2nd stage of grief kicking in: "Anger - turned outward"?

[Doc Brown]

32 minutes ago, Rico said:

Exactly.

 

I have worked for total POS in my career, and I have cussed them out behind their back, but I'm not stupid enough to put it in an e-mail or text DOH.

There was a lot more to those e-mails than just venting frustration against his boss.  He managed to offend about every group but straight white men out there.  

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

There was a lot more to those e-mails than just venting frustration against his boss.  He managed to offend about every group but straight white men out there.  

True. Much speculation out there that the comments against the NFL brass were ultimately what led to the hatchet job, that's why I mentioned it.