[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[klos63]

I think what matters most is how he deals with this inside the locker room.  Terrible comment 11 years ago is still terrible today, but he needs to maintain the support of his team, then he'll be fine.

Meyer is a joke to his team based on how he handled last weeks incident. He'll likely be out of a job soon. There's a difference in how you handle difficult situations.

[LeGOATski]

Sick burn 

[sullim4]

This is ridiculous.

 

If we were all held to a standard such that anything we said privately, even 10, 20, 30 years ago, could be held against us, every single one of us would lose our jobs and our reputations.  One thing I am sure of is that everyone at some point in their lives has said something they would not want aired publicly.

 

I'm so sick and tired of people that throw stones while living in glass houses.  The guy said something wrong in private, he has now apologized, and said he had no ill intent.  There is no pattern here with Gruden, as far as I'm aware.  It should be left at that unless he's proven to have a pattern of behavior here.  Social media and the outrage mob of Facebook that jump on every little thing have ruined both privacy and society as a whole in so many different ways.

[vincec]

6 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

This is ridiculous.

 

If we were all held to a standard such that anything we said privately, even 10, 20, 30 years ago, could be held against us, every single one of us would lose our jobs and our reputations.  One thing I am sure of is that everyone at some point in their lives has said something they would not want aired publicly.

 

I'm so sick and tired of people that throw stones while living in glass houses.  The guy said something wrong in private, he has now apologized, and said he had no ill intent.  There is no pattern here with Gruden, as far as I'm aware.  It should be left at that unless he's proven to have a pattern of behavior here.  Social media and the outrage mob of Facebook that jump on every little thing have ruined both privacy and society as a whole in so many different ways.

Completely agree. People are not just the worst things that they do.

Edited October 9, 2021 by vincec

[Warcodered]

Just now, vincec said:

Completely agree. People are not just the worst things that they do.

Nobody is just one thing but we absolutely are the things that we do.

[klos63]

7 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

This is ridiculous.

 

If we were all held to a standard such that anything we said privately, even 10, 20, 30 years ago, could be held against us, every single one of us would lose our jobs and our reputations.  One thing I am sure of is that everyone at some point in their lives has said something they would not want aired publicly.

 

I'm so sick and tired of people that throw stones while living in glass houses.  The guy said something wrong in private, he has now apologized, and said he had no ill intent.  There is no pattern here with Gruden, as far as I'm aware.  It should be left at that unless he's proven to have a pattern of behavior here.  Social media and the outrage mob of Facebook that jump on every little thing have ruined both privacy and society as a whole in so many different ways.

I'm just reading some comments here, is there really a outrage mob out there?  Most comments here seem pretty measured. You're the one with the outrage.

2 minutes ago, vincec said:

Completely agree. People are not just the worst things that they do.

OJ says hi!

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

If the happening just came to light and would potentially damage the reputation of the organization they most certainly could.

 

No chance.  They can fire him, but they have to pay him.  If they didn't do their due diligence, that's on Davis. 

[delirious]

Holding someone accountable for their actions isn't outrage.

 

I want to wait and see what more comes up. Mark Davis indicated the Raiders received more material. John Gruden hasn't had a past, that we know of.

 

1. Complaining about someone in an email (in writing) is dumb.

2. (Assuming for now his statement wasn't racially motivated) lacking the self-awareness of the parallels of his statement could mean is also dumb

 

P.S. but I do think this world could use a lot more forgiveness

Edited October 9, 2021 by delirious

[AuntieEm]

56 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He didn't say they were like tires he said they were the size of tires.

 

And I've still yet to see anyone who's ever heard of an idiom for rubber and liars.

   

       I've never heard the expression either but doesn't mean he's lying because I've never heard it.  So I cannot say he's got rubbery lips himself.  Heck I would just come out and say I felt he was lying in plain English.  I personally feel racism is more common among less intelligent people and so while his choice of idioms can be construed several ways someone that was truly racist  wouldn't be able to consistently hide it being they'd in my opinion be already hampered by a lower intelligence and incapable of fooling everybody as long as his entire career.  In which he's dealing with numerous players who would be the target of his racist views.  Not sure I know of many racists that would work side by side with as many black players as he's worked with and there's only one email that can be misconstrued to fitting into a racist agenda.  I can think of plenty of different racist-toned slang he could have used if that was his intent.   Plus he'd have had numerous opportunities to have let some inappropriate remarks escape in the ups and downs of emotions in a highly contested football game.  There would have been backlash even before this current 'woke'  culture because being 'woke' isn't anything new there are many instances in history where you can witness awareness of injustices getting a voice.  

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by AuntieEm
Format and grammar corrections

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

He's full of *****. He didn't say his lips were rubbery he said they were the size of tires, but nice try though.

Yeah, nice try Gruden. 

You know, I'm usually willing to give a guy the benefit of the doubt. When I saw the headline "Gruden Racist Text" I was expecting something ambiguous because, well, usually it isn't this obvious. Usually.  

 

 

 

 

[Warcodered]

21 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

   

       I've never heard the expression either but doesn't mean he's lying because I've never heard it.  So I cannot say he's got rubbery lips himself.  Heck I would just come out and say I felt he was lying in plain English.  I personally feel racism is more common among less intelligent people and so while his choice of idioms can be construed several ways someone that was truly racist  wouldn't be able to consistently hide it being they'd in my opinion be already hampered by a lower intelligence and incapable of fooling everybody as long as his entire career.  In which he's dealing with numerous players who would be the target of his racist views.  Not sure I know of many racists that would work side by side with as many black players as he's worked with and there's only one email that can be misconstrued to fitting into a racist agenda.  I can think of plenty of different racist-toned slang he could have used if that was his intent.   Plus he'd have had numerous opportunities to have let some inappropriate remarks escape in the ups and downs of emotions in a highly contested football game.  There would have been backlash even before this current 'woke'  culture because being 'woke' isn't anything new there are many instances in history where you can witness awareness of injustices getting a voice.  

 

 

 

Right sure the fact that I can't find anything on that idiom doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does make it suspicious as hell though. Beyond that though he still didn't say the guys lips were rubbery or like tires he said they were the size of tires. So even if it somehow was an idiom he didn't use it right.

 

So what are we supposed to believe that he accidentally screwed up an idiom that no one seems to of heard of in a specific way that looks clearly racist?

 

Really?

Edited October 9, 2021 by Warcodered

[AuntieEm]

46 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I think what matters most is how he deals with this inside the locker room.  Terrible comment 11 years ago is still terrible today, but he needs to maintain the support of his team, then he'll be fine.

Meyer is a joke to his team based on how he handled last weeks incident. He'll likely be out of a job soon. There's a difference in how you handle difficult situations.

 

     Indeed, plus players who he's been coaching are gonna know firsthand how he conducts himself with perhaps some rookies or newly signed free agents as the only ones that might pause and watch how he reacts to the email  surfacing.  Players that know him will hold opinions based on their own interactions with Gruden. 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, delirious said:

 

This is the only thing I could find about rubber and lips (which isn't associated with lying)

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rubberlip&defid=2400557

 

 

Well mangling the truth could be used to describe a lie.  After all a lie is by definition a distortion of the truth so that definition fits  at least for those of us that have an extensive vocabulary and the ability to use it without needing to look it up for proof its a valid definition.

[flaz]

3 hours ago, eball said:

Did anyone else read the topic and think Gruden sent an e-mail regarding Smith when he was ten years old?

 Is this your best @Gugny impersonation? 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by flaz

[flaz]

9 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Well mangling the truth could be used to describe a lie.  After all a lie is by definition a distortion of the truth so that definition fits  at least for those of us that have an extensive vocabulary and the ability to use it without needing to look it up for proof its a valid definition.

Perfectly punctuated 

[billsfanmiamioh]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

They can't nullify his contract for conduct that happened years before he signed it.  

You have the language of his contract? 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No chance.  They can fire him, but they have to pay him.  If they didn't do their due diligence, that's on Davis. 

 

[flaz]

Davis is the moron  of nfl owners. How that fan base continues to grow is beyond me

[flaz]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

   

       I've never heard the expression either but doesn't mean he's lying because I've never heard it.  So I cannot say he's got rubbery lips himself.  Heck I would just come out and say I felt he was lying in plain English.  I personally feel racism is more common among less intelligent people and so while his choice of idioms can be construed several ways someone that was truly racist  wouldn't be able to consistently hide it being they'd in my opinion be already hampered by a lower intelligence and incapable of fooling everybody as long as his entire career.  In which he's dealing with numerous players who would be the target of his racist views.  Not sure I know of many racists that would work side by side with as many black players as he's worked with and there's only one email that can be misconstrued to fitting into a racist agenda.  I can think of plenty of different racist-toned slang he could have used if that was his intent.   Plus he'd have had numerous opportunities to have let some inappropriate remarks escape in the ups and downs of emotions in a highly contested football game.  There would have been backlash even before this current 'woke'  culture because being 'woke' isn't anything new there are many instances in history where you can witness awareness of injustices getting a voice.  

 

 

 

Um, ok I guess. Huh?

[AuntieEm]

14 minutes ago, flaz said:

Perfectly punctuated 

 

      Actually I'm pretty sure I mess up alot on my punctuation more my limited ability to navigate the keyboard on my phone.  I try editing but I usually just say the dogs blood cholera to it.  Google that you'll get  it.  If your Polish you already got it probably.

 

   I worry more about the content of my posts than perfect punctuation. 

[Governor]

Gruden has always been garbage and the players hate the guy. I don’t know why people continue to put him on a pedestal all of these years. He was fired for a reason and no team wanted to hire him for 10 years.

 

He wasn’t taking a break from coaching. He wasn’t offered another job until the Raiders.

 

Ask Phil and Chris Sims what they think of Gruden. 
 

He’s also a terrible talent evaluator. He ran some of the worst drafts in history. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Governor

[SDS]

13 minutes ago, Governor said:

Gruden has always been garbage and the players hate the guy. I don’t know why people continue to put him on a pedestal all of these years. He was fired for a reason and no team wanted to hire him for 10 years.

 

He wasn’t taking a break from coaching. He wasn’t offered another job until the Raiders.

 

Ask Phil and Chris Sims what they think of Gruden. 
 

He’s also a terrible talent evaluator. He ran some of the worst drafts in history. 

I don’t think him not being offered a job is true at all. He was pursued for years and years and years.

[Governor]

8 minutes ago, SDS said:

I don’t think him not being offered a job is true at all. He was pursued for years and years and years.

His name was thrown out there year after year because he wanted back in the league. No one offered him a job after what happened in Tampa. I was in Tampa during that time. It wasn’t ownership that wanted him gone, it was the fans and the players.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Governor

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Governor said:

His name was thrown out there year after year because he wanted back in the league. No one offered him a job after what happened in Tampa.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/jon-gruden-rejected-nfl-staying-at-espn-2017-1%3famp

[Bangarang]

But…he does have big lips. I really wish people would stop playing the race card over literally everything. 

[Governor]

10 minutes ago, SDS said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/jon-gruden-rejected-nfl-staying-at-espn-2017-1%3famp

Reportedly pursued doesn’t tell us much at all. They floated that rumor every year when coaches were fired. I’m sure some owners probably wanted to speak with him to see where his head was at but no official offers were made.

 

The restrictions were “we might be interested but we won’t give you control of player personnel and a GM role and let you destroy our team like you did in Tampa.”

Edited October 9, 2021 by Governor

[Wizard]

Dumb and unkind thing to write.

 

With that said, if everyone was honest, it seems that the thought and moral standards police changes stances or has rules that only apply to, for, or against specific groups or specific ideologies.

 

Imagine how many players, coaches, and fans would be left (me included) if we exiled everyone based on past comments. 

 

Why there would be as many people left as the amount of wins the Texans may get this year: 1 or 2.

 

 

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

He didn't say they were like tires he said they were the size of tires.

 

And I've still yet to see anyone who's ever heard of an idiom for rubber and liars.

I have, I promise I will wear a rubber

[Governor]

Now, just imagine how bad it truly was.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/07/26/jon-gruden-former-buccaneers-players-comment-his-coaching-style

Edited October 9, 2021 by Governor

[AuntieEm]

36 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

But…he does have big lips. I really wish people would stop playing the race card over literally everything. 

 

      I find it more interesting the timing of uncovering the email.  Funny it was a blatant racial slur according to some of the headlines and its against a man that was not getting unanimous support from his unions selection committee  for whatever reasons they stopped supporting him.  So the timing  leads me to believe it was timed to take the depiction to the player reps, who did vote him back in.  The only question is which party was behind it to secure his new term.  I have no stake in which side did what and I have no inside knowledge to lean either way.  The timing makes it unlikely to just be a cowinkydink as I  would say, dunno if you Google it if anyone else uses that phrasing for coincidence, but I promise you I have, usually with a slightly exaggerated wink to indicate its blatant setup.  I'd make sure the investigation also verifies the timestamp to be sure it wasn't a tampered email.  Just not sure who was behind securing new term for DeMaurice Smith.  Just kinda blatant theres some powerplay shenanigans going on here. 

[Governor]

32 minutes ago, Wizard said:

Dumb and unkind thing to write.

 

With that said, if everyone was honest, it seems that the thought and moral standards police changes stances or has rules that only apply to, for, or against specific groups or specific ideologies.

 

Imagine how many players, coaches, and fans would be left (me included) if we exiled everyone based on past comments. 

 

Why there would be as many people left as the amount of wins the Texans may get this year: 1 or 2.

 

 

 

 

If I was making millions of dollars all from a persona that I spent decades creating with help from the league and the media, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be sending racist emails about a union leader to my friends across the league.

 

Thats just me tho.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Governor

[uticaclub]

So it's cool to make fun of Gruden for looking like a Chucky doll but not to comment of a union leaders lips? This email or not, Dumbass Smith has been a terrible union leader for the players and if the timing of the email is the main reason he kept his job, everyone loses

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

So it's cool to make fun of Gruden for looking like a Chucky doll but not to comment of a union leaders lips? This email or not, Dumbass Smith has been a terrible union leader for the players and if the timing of the email is the main reason he kept his job, everyone loses

cmon man it looks like they both got separated at birth 🤣🤣

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, SDS said:

I don’t think him not being offered a job is true at all. He was pursued for years and years and years.

He absolutely was heavily pursued 

 

I'm honestly surprised he left a cushy job to go into the grinder of the NFL , after being out as long as he was

[Nelius]

Gruden is dumb. He says dumb things. He's probably not a racist, he's just an idiot, there's absolutely no need to try and defend him.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Nelius

[todd]

6 hours ago, Bangarang said:

But…he does have big lips. I really wish people would stop playing the race card over literally everything. 

No. This is not the “race card”. This is someone insulting someone using a racial stereotype. It is designed to denigrate someone based on the racial stereotype of Black people having large lips. It’s a pretty disgusting thing to say by Gruden. It is absolutely a racist statement.
 

I’m actually sad that a fellow bills fan doesn’t see that.

Edited October 9, 2021 by todd

[todd]

4 hours ago, uticaclub said:

So it's cool to make fun of Gruden for looking like a Chucky doll but not to comment of a union leaders lips? This email or not, Dumbass Smith has been a terrible union leader for the players and if the timing of the email is the main reason he kept his job, everyone loses

 
Yes, it is ok. Mocking gruden because he looks like chucky is not insulting someone because of a racial stereotype. Mocking Smith because of a Black person’s stereotypical attributes is. It’s disgusting. Crazy that people don’t know this. 
 

Would you walk up to a Black person and insult them this way? Hopefully not. You probably know this is wrong, and are just talking crap on the internet.

[JMF2006]

12 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

This isn't going to end well for Gruden. But it make work out extremely well for the Raider franchise.

 

Poor little David was finally building a rapport with Coach G  

 

 

[flaz]

 

 

[teef]

This is why I only write sexy comments in emails.  Even if they’re racist, they’re flattering. 

[Buffalo ill]

Other than a complete lack of desire or qualifications, I know I could never run for any office.  I'm sure some dumbassed photo or message board comment from 20 years ago will pop up.