Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[GunnerBill]

So the final pre-season game of 2021 is in the books. The Bills went 3-0 to follow 4-0 in 2019 and are now unbeaten in 8 pre-season outings. That usually speaks pretty directly to depth on the roster and there is no doubting this Bills roster is deep, although I think if anything things may have simplified and crystalized a little for Beane and co. last night. So with no further ado...

 

Good Night for...

 

Josh Allen and his starting receivers - I won't labour too long on this and it barely needs mentioning but in his first action of pre-season Allen was on point throwing two absolute bullet touchdowns. The first - to Gabriel Davis on third and long - was a throw only 3 or 4 Quarterbacks in the entire league can make and the second was the definition of tight window to Zack Moss. It was the first pre-season action for Cole Beasley and Emmanuel Sanders too and they had 4 grabs a piece while Davis (who has played in some of the earlier games) had 5 for 75 yards and that score. There were no discernable signs of rust here. Allen and his pass catchers are ready for week 1. 

 

Matt Breida - I liked the low risk pickup of Breida in the offseason but it is fair to say he hasn't exactly popped in the first two pre-season games where they have used him more in a conventional running back mode. Last night he was used in the Isaiah McKenzie role, taking a sweep 16 yards on his only carry and catching a bubble screen too. I wasn't totally sold that he was safe but given McKenzie is nicked up and his ability to give the Bills an option in that package I suspect he is now pretty secure on the 53 as an emergency conventional running back who can also backup McKenzie's gimmick role. 

 

Siran Neal - Not that Siran Neal's roster spot was in any doubt but he had a really good night, he was active and around the football as the starting nickel, had a big tackle on special teams and played some safety in the second half. For those bottom of the roster guys being able to help in multiple ways is always big and Neal again proved his worth. 

 

Damar Hamlin - Talking of backup safeties.... I think Damar Hamlin secured a roster spot last night. He has been battling with Josh Thomas for the 4th safety spot all summer and last night I thought he separated himself. He had a nice pass breakup and he flashed on special teams too. I suspect when you add that to the fact that Thomas is likely the easier one to sneak through to the practice squad the signs point towards Hamlin being on the 53. 

 

Jake Fromm - I think some readers of my previous good night / bad night columns will believe that I am anti-Jake Fromm and nothing could be further from the truth. I still think there were throws last night where the ball hangs in the air because he doesn't generate the requisite velocity and where in regular season play the risk of interceptions would be high. However, this was a nice outing from the former Georgia Quarterback that likely guarantees he is still in the league this year as at least a practice squad guy and possibly even sneaking onto a roster for a team that wants to carry 3 guys. His touchdown run was a cool moment for him. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Cam Lewis - I think Cam Lewis was the one guy who I had on the outside looking in but with a real chance of forcing his way onto the 53 last night. With Dane Jackson and Levi Wallace out and a question about corner depth he got the start opposite Tre White but missed his opportunity. He had a couple of mental errors in coverage that allowed completions and while he was by no means a disaster when McDermott and Beane sit down to go through that film he isn't gonna jump out as a guy they simply can't live without. There might still be a route for him depending on what happens with Jaquan Johnson who has missed the last two games injured. He could be a candidate for IR after the 53 is announced after which they bring back either Lewis (and use Neal as safety depth for the first few weeks) or Josh Thomas. 

 

Cody Ford - Ford, Feliciano and Boettger have been rotating in the guard spots this pre-season. Last night Ford got the start at RG with Feliciano at LG but he did not have a good first drive allowing two pressures - one of which Allen escaped from out to his right and found Singletary for a dump off, the other led to the ball Allen threw into the dirt. He was replaced on the second drive by Boettger who then stayed in on the third drive too and I have to say he played much better. I should add it was Boettger's man who got the hit on Allen on the second touchdown throw, but otherwise he just looked calmer and more balanced in pass protection where Ford looks a bit frantic and less sure with his footwork. I think Ford has the advantage if the Bills want to be a power run team, but this is a pass first offense and as a pass protector.... Boettger is just better right now. I would not be surprised to see the former UDFA start over the former 2nd round pick in two weeks' time. 

 

Backup tackle depth - It has been a theme of the pre-season but Tommy Doyle and Bobby Hart would be liabilities starting in actual NFL games. Both got blown by multiple times and while there are excuses that can be made for Doyle "oh he is a 5th round pick and he is raw" etc the truth is if he was an UDFA nobody would have a single issue about him being on the cut list. I suspect the Bills would like to hang onto him and maybe they even find a way to fit him on the 53 but for me this is the number 1 spot where I look for them to make a move after other teams have made their cuts. 

 

Dion Dawkins - Talking of offensive tackle, and not going over the top here, but Dion doesn't look all the way back yet to me, which is understandable. He got beaten by his guy a couple of times yesterday including on the play where Allen wisely gave himself up for a sack (Daryl Williams was also beaten on the play and Josh had nowhere to go). It is not crisis time by any means but just a reminder to folks that if Dion starts this season slow we should cut him a bit of slack. He still looks short of his ideal playing weight. 

 

Long snapping - It shows where the Bills have been pre-season that I am having to talk about long snapping as a concern. Reid Ferguson having a back issue right before the season is a bit of a worry. That is not the sort of injury that just disappears quickly and it is hard to totally rest a back when long snapping is your job. It is, bizarrely, an area where the Bills miss Lee Smith who has long snapped in an NFL game before now whereas it looked like AJ Epenesa had drawn the short straw trying to do it last night. I suspect Ferguson plays next week but it is almost a guarantee now that the Bills carry a long snapper as one of their 16 practice squad guys so that they have the option of using one of those free "game day call ups" that they have in the event that Reid has a week where he just can't go. 

 

 

We are on to Pittsburgh!

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Coach Tuesday]

Agree with all of this.

 

Cody Ford is the worst pick of the Beane era by a mile when you consider the opportunity cost.  He’s just not a football player.  Total scrub.

[Rk_Bills86]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Cody Ford is the worst pick of the Beane era by a mile when you consider the opportunity cost.  He’s just not a football player.  Total scrub.

 

Not to start a debate on this - but while this might actually be true (considering pick value) - How quickly have we become spoiled that an average player is the worth pick in a 3 to 4 year span?

[machine gun kelly]

Excellent points GB.  I have not been impressed with Ford, and I’ve been giving him all the excuses of moving him around, injuries, etc.  He is healthy now (I think as I haven’t read anything) and in a dedicated Guard position, which is supposed to be his natural position.  I’m almost inclined to cut him and send a message to the team we don’t care about draft status, just how well you play, and every play counts.  Boettger and Bates look better than him.  You can always place Doyle on the PS after they cut him.

 

Finally, we use Breida the way he should be used. One Jet sweep, and two short passes.  He will be an asset on the team if he used outside.  Let Moss and Singletary handle anything related to cut back runs, and straight up interior running plays.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Dion Dawkins - Talking of offensive tackle, and not going over the top here, but Dion doesn't look all the way back yet to me, which is understandable. He got beaten by his guy a couple of times yesterday including on the play where Allen wisely gave himself up for a sack (Daryl Williams was also beaten on the play and Josh had nowhere to go). It is not crisis time by any means but just a reminder to folks that if Dion starts this season slow we should cut him a bit of slack. He still looks short of his ideal playing weight. 

 

 

 

We are on to Pittsburgh!

 

 

I think you nailed most of this - the only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that on the sack - you say both Dion and Williams were beaten, but Sal specifically mentioned on the post game - that play.  
 

The Bills went with a higher snap count and GB’s D-line moved.  Morse snapped the ball early to try and catch him off sides and no one was ready giving both DEs a huge advantage.  That decision is given to Morse to try and get a free play, but obviously the Refs did not give it to them, but I don’t think in the end that will reflect on Dion at all.

 

Eric Woods also said in the pregame that any injury/illness that you lose the kind of weight Dion lost - the trainers will get back in 3-4 weeks - they want to add it slowly.  He did not think the weight would hinder Dion much, but the stamina was going to be a huge issue - especially with Miami in week 2.

[delirious]

Add interior defensive line and linebackers to the bad night.

 

Packers 2nd string pounding the rock up the middle for chunks was very bad. The interior defensive line was getting pushed around and our linebackers couldn't get off blocks.

 

I really really really hope Beane goes after Jurrell Casey hard. I was pounding the table for him during FA, and now I'm even more entrenched.

[Ralonzo]

The Ford pick seemed to inconsistent with Beane drafting looking for elite traits on high picks and leaning on the coaching staff to form the player (Allen, Rousseau, Edmunds, Knox, Brown). Seemed like a reach at the time to move up at a position of dire need, they had the guy way up on their board apparently. I mean, he’s better than Cyrus Kouandijo at least. We all know who the “traits” guy was on the board at the time.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Ralonzo

[Dopey]

Bad: I had hope for Ford, but he's not doing good. I saw too much lunging, reaching and terrible footwork. And that's inside at guard. Right now he's a backup and not a good one.

Good: I like what our starters looked like on the dline. Back ups, not so much. Star has already made a difference. Couple of decent runs given up in the first qt with Star not in, then a GL stance with him in. 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think you nailed most of this - the only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that on the sack - you say both Dion and Williams were beaten, but Sal specifically mentioned on the post game - that play.  
 

The Bills went with a higher snap count and GB’s D-line moved.  Morse snapped the ball early to try and catch him off sides and no one was ready giving both DEs a huge advantage.  That decision is given to Morse to try and get a free play, but obviously the Refs did not give it to them, but I don’t think in the end that will reflect on Dion at all.

 

Eric Woods also said in the pregame that any injury/illness that you lose the kind of weight Dion lost - the trainers will get back in 3-4 weeks - they want to add it slowly.  He did not think the weight would hinder Dion much, but the stamina was going to be a huge issue - especially with Miami in week 2.

 

It wasn't the only play Dion was beaten on, but you are right that should have been a penalty. The Eric Wood point is exactly what I am talking about. It might be 4 or 5 weeks before we get Dion at his best. We just need to be patient with it and him at 85% is still better than anyone else playing there.

26 minutes ago, delirious said:

Add interior defensive line and linebackers to the bad night.

 

Packers 2nd string pounding the rock up the middle for chunks was very bad. The interior defensive line was getting pushed around and our linebackers couldn't get off blocks.

 

I really really really hope Beane goes after Jurrell Casey hard. I was pounding the table for him during FA, and now I'm even more entrenched.

 

You say that but Green Bay's longest run was 12 yards. The Bills are willing to give up 12 yard runs here and there at this point. They are a bend don't break defense, they keep it infront of them. They know who Ed Oliver and Tremaine Edmunds are and they knew it at draft time. They prioritise what they give you as defenders in the passing game over what they do as run defenders.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Re both Cody Ford and Doyle, you wonder if the Bills want to be more patient, given that they gave away Wyatt Teller and we all know how good he is. 
 

Ford was moved all around his first season between tackle and guard, and was injured a lot last year. Maybe he just needs more time? 

[TroutDog]

I wouldn’t hammer Beane too hard for the Ford pick: if the Bills were a run first team, the pick would be considered brilliant. Ford is a very good guard in the right O…Pittsburgh come to mind.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Re both Cody Ford and Doyle, you wonder if the Bills want to be more patient, given that they gave away Wyatt Teller and we all know how good he is. 
 

Ford was moved all around his first season between tackle and guard, and was injured a lot last year. Maybe he just needs more time? 

 

It is pretty much now or never for him I think.

[delirious]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

You say that but Green Bay's longest run was 12 yards. The Bills are willing to give up 12 yard runs here and there at this point. They are a bend don't break defense, they keep it infront of them. They know who Ed Oliver and Tremaine Edmunds are and they knew it at draft time. They prioritise what they give you as defenders in the passing game over what they do as run defenders.

 

I think our defense would have faired worse yesterday if they would have played against Greenbay's first team O.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The depth on this team overall is very impressive. I think in a few areas, we are as stacked as any team I can ever remember. Our 6th and 7th best WRs could start on a few teams. That’s inconceivable.
 

I’m slightly concerned with the depth in the secondary. I think our actual starting secondary is the best in the league, but the backups are a little concerning. At corner there will be 2 guys I feel comfortable with incase of injuries but at safety (if a starter goes down) I think we are screwed. I wouldn’t mind seeing a veteran added to the back end depth post cuts. 

 

Tight end is still a spot where we have almost nothing. If Duke Williams was smart enough to read the room, he should have spent the entire last year putting on 20/30lbs and making a position change to TE. He was never going to make this roster as a WR but if he could transfer his skill set to a bigger body and play TE, I think he could be a factor.  We seem to have a roster full of backups at TE. It’s the one blemish on this roster IMO. In this franchise’s history we have never had a legitimate top tier TE. It’s not a post to start another Ertz thread but he certainly could have taken this one roster hole out of the discussion.

[RobbRiddick]

If Brieda does make it I can see some situations where Allen escapes the pocket, finds him on a dump off and he takes it 30 or 40 yards downfield on the broken play. If he does that a few times in key moments then he's  earned his roster spot for me

[TheBeaneBandit]

4 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The depth on this team overall is very impressive. I think in a few areas, we are as stacked as any team I can ever remember. Our 6th and 7th best WRs could start on a few teams. That’s inconceivable.
 

I’m slightly concerned with the depth in the secondary. I think our actual starting secondary is the best in the league, but the backups are a little concerning. At corner there will be 2 guys I feel comfortable with incase of injuries but at safety (if a starter goes down) I think we are screwed. I wouldn’t mind seeing a veteran added to the back end depth post cuts. 

 

Tight end is still a spot where we have almost nothing. If Duke Williams was smart enough to read the room, he should have spent the entire last year putting on 20/30lbs and making a position change to TE. He was never going to make this roster as a WR but if he could transfer his skill set to a bigger body and play TE, I think he could be a factor.  We seem to have a roster full of backups at TE. It’s the one blemish on this roster IMO. In this franchise’s history we have never had a legitimate top tier TE. It’s not a post to start another Ertz thread but he certainly could have taken this one roster hole out of the discussion.

Duke Williams is slow enough already. 20 to 30 pounds and the dude may barely crack running a 5.0 40 lol

[JerseyBills]

Siran Neal was everywhere! Ppl were actually saying he's a cut candidate after playing outside CB the first 2 games and not looking too hot.

He's made for the slot or even a 3rd LB role,and can play S.

He was the best defender on the field imo. I think he's going to get alot more playing time this year. 

Klein looked really good yesterday too

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, delirious said:

 

I think our defense would have faired worse yesterday if they would have played against Greenbay's first team O.

That goes without saying considering Love got his offense within the Bills 25 yard line 3x before he ran into bad luck. That doesn't happen with ARod. I think many expecting a big jump in defensive performance are going to be disappointed. They've gotten younger but not necessarily better. The pass rush is still inconsistent and they continue to run the same "bend not break" scheme. I don't see this unit keeping us in games on days the offense isn't clicking. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by billsbackto81

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Cody Ford - Ford, Feliciano and Boettger have been rotating in the guard spots this pre-season. Last night Ford got the start at RG with Feliciano at LG but he did not have a good first drive allowing two pressures - one of which Allen escaped from out to his right and found Singletary for a dump off, the other led to the ball Allen threw into the dirt. He was replaced on the second drive by Boettger who then stayed in on the third drive too and I have to say he played much better. I should add it was Boettger's man who got the hit on Allen on the second touchdown throw, but otherwise he just looked calmer and more balanced in pass protection where Ford looks a bit frantic and less sure with his footwork. I think Ford has the advantage if the Bills want to be a power run team, but this is a pass first offense and as a pass protector.... Boettger is just better right now. I would not be surprised to see the former UDFA start over the former 2nd round pick in two weeks' time. 

 

Backup tackle depth - It has been a theme of the pre-season but Tommy Doyle and Bobby Hart would be liabilities starting in actual NFL games. Both got blown by multiple times and while there are excuses that can be made for Doyle "oh he is a 5th round pick and he is raw" etc the truth is if he was an UDFA nobody would have a single issue about him being on the cut list. I suspect the Bills would like to hang onto him and maybe they even find a way to fit him on the 53 but for me this is the number 1 spot where I look for them to make a move after other teams have made their cuts. 

 

 

It was also a Good Night for... backup LBs but not noticed as much since people were used to it from previous game.  Nice goal line stance.

 

And Bills should at this point me looking as Cody Ford as backup OL except center since he can play either guard or tackle position when REALLY necessary.

And I agree he is better as a run blocker so maybe on goal line stances substitute him or use him as extra blocker.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It was also a Good Night for... backup LBs but not noticed as much since people were used to it from previous game.  Nice goal line stance.

 

And Bills should at this point me looking as Cody Ford as backup OL except center since he can play either guard or tackle position when REALLY necessary.

And I agree he is better as a run blocker so maybe on goal line stances substitute him or use him as extra blocker.

 

Yea thought Andre Smith was good again. I am pretty sure that group is settled. Edmunds, Milano, Klein, Smith and Matakevich. They will also hope to sneak Dodson and Giles-Harris onto the PS and just carry 5 on the active roster to allow them to keep Bam Johnson.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Re both Cody Ford and Doyle, you wonder if the Bills want to be more patient, given that they gave away Wyatt Teller and we all know how good he is. 
 

Ford was moved all around his first season between tackle and guard, and was injured a lot last year. Maybe he just needs more time? 

Amazing that the Bills basically traded DK Metcalf and Wyatt Teller for Cody Ford.  Hard to argue with what Beane has done but this was an epically bad maneuver.

[Fan in Chicago]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea thought Andre Smith was good again. I am pretty sure that group is settled. Edmunds, Milano, Klein, Smith and Matakevich. They will also hope to sneak Dodson and Giles-Harris onto the PS and just carry 5 on the active roster to allow them to keep Bam Johnson.

I was unable to watch the game but I surmised from the GDT that Edmunds didnt have a good night.

What is your assessment and how serious of an issue is the second level run defense?

Edited August 29, 2021 by Fan in Chicago

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Amazing that the Bills basically traded DK Metcalf and Wyatt Teller for Cody Ford.  Hard to argue with what Beane has done but this was an epically bad maneuver.

yeah, a clear swing and miss. 
 

That said, for every miss, Beane seems to get many more hits. For example, I was randomly reading a draft recap of the 2018 draft. Beane was accused of overreaching on Dawkins (who projected to maybe being able to compete with Jordan Mills at RT), and reaching on Milano (who was viewed as maybe ST contributor).  
 

Reading stuff like that makes me feel better about some of the misses!

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I was unable to watch the game but I surmised from the GDT that he didnt have a good night.

What is your assessment and how serious of an issue is the second level run defense?

 

Not particularly serious. The Bills will give up some yards on the ground at times but I am not sure how many games they are going to lose to teams who just wanna run it on them. The bigger issue last year was the play action that was set up by the run. That is where I will be watching when the season starts. It wasn't Henry who beat us in Tennessee for instance. It was Tannehill off the run fakes.

[Fan in Chicago]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not particularly serious. The Bills will give up some yards on the ground at times but I am not sure how many games they are going to lose to teams who just wanna run it on them. The bigger issue last year was the play action that was set up by the run. That is where I will be watching when the season starts. It wasn't Henry who beat us in Tennessee for instance. It was Tannehill off the run fakes.

The game I had in mind was the playoff game against the Colts. Rivers skewered us.

Also, seeing how the Pats** are built for this season, 2 TE and ground and pound is meant to challenge our D. I know it is too early to worry but run D & D against screens can kill us especially if BB exposes those weaknesses and we face similar teams in the playoffs.

That the O will score plenty is not in doubt.  

[FLFan]

14 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The game I had in mind was the playoff game against the Colts. Rivers skewered us.

Also, seeing how the Pats** are built for this season, 2 TE and ground and pound is meant to challenge our D. I know it is too early to worry but run D & D against screens can kill us especially if BB exposes those weaknesses and we face similar teams in the playoffs.

That the O will score plenty is not in doubt.  

That style of offense is easy enough to defend if you know it’s coming because there are no other options.  Yes Rivers had a really good day (although not good enough to win) but he is a hall of fame QB and NE has none of those to put it kindly. 

[HappyDays]

It's too bad Lamp couldnt stay healthy. I thought he would have been an upgrade as a pass protector at one of the guard spots. Ford and Feliciano are both better run blockers, and in this offense that skill set just doesn't fit.

 

Also I would add Edmunds to the bad night. I rewatched the game last night and he was personally responsible for a lot of big plays. There was that one play where Love found an absolutely wide open receiver in the middle of the field. The Packers ran a misdirection run fake that Edmunds bit on hard. While pursuing the fake ball carrier, he got pushed to the ground by an O-lineman and slowly got up just in time to see a huge pass completion in the area of the field he had vacated. I can't say for sure if the open man would have been his responsibility, but it was a bad look for him.

Edited August 29, 2021 by HappyDays

[TFBillsfan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea thought Andre Smith was good again. I am pretty sure that group is settled. Edmunds, Milano, Klein, Smith and Matakevich. They will also hope to sneak Dodson and Giles-Harris onto the PS and just carry 5 on the active roster to allow them to keep Bam Johnson.

Love the way Andre Smith hits! Wish we could see that same type of hitting from Edmunds but understand that’s not the way he plays.

[Shaw66]

Gunner -

 

Thanks for these reports.  They're excellent.   I never have been good at watching the line play, so I really appreciate those offensive line comments.   

 

A couple of reactions.  First, Tommy Doyle.   I wouldn't be so quick to give up him.  Except for the guys taken in the first 30-40 spots in the draft, rookie linemen don't start.  They come into the league woefully underprepared for what the NFL demands of them, and they need two or three years to develop.   I think they took Doyle for his body without any serious expectation that he'd be NFL ready after a year, let alone after training camp.   So, he may be struggling, but I'd guess the Bills will try hard to hold onto him.

 

Ford.  I hope you're wrong, but I doubt you are.   I wanted his size and talent on the line, but Beane may simply have missed on this one.   We'll see. 

 

Lewis.  My thought as I watched him being undressed a couple of times was that above all else, McDermott demands that you execute to the extent of your physical ability EVERY PLAY.   Consistent execution is essential.   That's why, I think, Levi Wallace keeps starting - he does his job every play.   He may not be physically able to make every play we'd like, but he always executes his assignment.   Lewis doesn't, and on McDermott's teams, failure to execute is fatal. 

 

And that's why Hamlin stands out as a keeper.   It's so interesting that he was taken so late in the draft, and his college coach said he's the guy from Pitt most likely to have along career in the NFL.   The guy just seems to execute.  

 

Fromm.   I agree with you.   I've always thought Fromm has a good chance of being a solid journeyman backup.   He doesn't have the arm to be an NFL starter, but he's disciplined.   It's easy to see him, in a year or two, being a better version of Barkley.   He really seems to get it; if he had to play, he's not going to make stupid mistakes (at least until the fourth quarter in a tight game, when he knows he has to make something happen).   I don't know if he makes it to the PS - I assume he does; all I know is that he isn't the train wreck that some people seem to think he is.  

 

Dawkins just isn't a truly dominant left tackle, so while he's trying to get back to full speed, he's going to have those moments.   I know it's heresy in some corners around here, but I think there's a good chance that Spencer Brown is the starting left tackle in a season or two.  He has some raw talent that Dawkins doesn't.  

 

Finally, the elephant in the room that you didn't talk about:  DE.  Beane said during the broadcast that they've had calls about trade possibilities at the DE position.   You can't ever be sure about Beane, but it sounded like he was going to be considering possible deals today and tomorrow.   So, I don't recall seeing Addison on the field.  Was he sitting because his spot is secure, or because they didn't want to get hurt and spoil a trade?   Hughes played.  Was he on the field to show him off as possible trade bait, or to tune up for the opener?   Who knows; maybe neither.  Basham showed up a few times, and the broadcasters mentioned that he looked better in week 2 and throughout practice leading up to week 3.  They talked about Bam Johnson like he's making it, and the coaches comments about him suggested that Johnson was making it.   Where was Obada yesterday?   

 

I have no idea where they're going at DE, but something's got to give. 

 

Finally, Ferguson most definitely is not an afterthought.   100% execution is his specialty; anything less than that could lose a game.  We saw it yesterday, in a meaningless game that was completely in hand.  So, his status is certainly a concern.  If Epenesa has to spend next week at practice hanging out with Haack and Bass, so be it.  He's not getting to anyplace near where Ferguson is in that job, but he can't be rolling balls back to the holder.  

[SectionC3]

12 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Gunner -

 

Thanks for these reports.  They're excellent.   I never have been good at watching the line play, so I really appreciate those offensive line comments.   

 

A couple of reactions.  First, Tommy Doyle.   I wouldn't be so quick to give up him.  Except for the guys taken in the first 30-40 spots in the draft, rookie linemen don't start.  They come into the league woefully underprepared for what the NFL demands of them, and they need two or three years to develop.   I think they took Doyle for his body without any serious expectation that he'd be NFL ready after a year, let alone after training camp.   So, he may be struggling, but I'd guess the Bills will try hard to hold onto him.

 

Ford.  I hope you're wrong, but I doubt you are.   I wanted his size and talent on the line, but Beane may simply have missed on this one.   We'll see. 

 

Lewis.  My thought as I watched him being undressed a couple of times was that above all else, McDermott demands that you execute to the extent of your physical ability EVERY PLAY.   Consistent execution is essential.   That's why, I think, Levi Wallace keeps starting - he does his job every play.   He may not be physically able to make every play we'd like, but he always executes his assignment.   Lewis doesn't, and on McDermott's teams, failure to execute is fatal. 

 

And that's why Hamlin stands out as a keeper.   It's so interesting that he was taken so late in the draft, and his college coach said he's the guy from Pitt most likely to have along career in the NFL.   The guy just seems to execute.  

 

Fromm.   I agree with you.   I've always thought Fromm has a good chance of being a solid journeyman backup.   He doesn't have the arm to be an NFL starter, but he's disciplined.   It's easy to see him, in a year or two, being a better version of Barkley.   He really seems to get it; if he had to play, he's not going to make stupid mistakes (at least until the fourth quarter in a tight game, when he knows he has to make something happen).   I don't know if he makes it to the PS - I assume he does; all I know is that he isn't the train wreck that some people seem to think he is.  

 

Dawkins just isn't a truly dominant left tackle, so while he's trying to get back to full speed, he's going to have those moments.   I know it's heresy in some corners around here, but I think there's a good chance that Spencer Brown is the starting left tackle in a season or two.  He has some raw talent that Dawkins doesn't.  

 

Finally, the elephant in the room that you didn't talk about:  DE.  Beane said during the broadcast that they've had calls about trade possibilities at the DE position.   You can't ever be sure about Beane, but it sounded like he was going to be considering possible deals today and tomorrow.   So, I don't recall seeing Addison on the field.  Was he sitting because his spot is secure, or because they didn't want to get hurt and spoil a trade?   Hughes played.  Was he on the field to show him off as possible trade bait, or to tune up for the opener?   Who knows; maybe neither.  Basham showed up a few times, and the broadcasters mentioned that he looked better in week 2 and throughout practice leading up to week 3.  They talked about Bam Johnson like he's making it, and the coaches comments about him suggested that Johnson was making it.   Where was Obada yesterday?   

 

I have no idea where they're going at DE, but something's got to give. 

 

Finally, Ferguson most definitely is not an afterthought.   100% execution is his specialty; anything less than that could lose a game.  We saw it yesterday, in a meaningless game that was completely in hand.  So, his status is certainly a concern.  If Epenesa has to spend next week at practice hanging out with Haack and Bass, so be it.  He's not getting to anyplace near where Ferguson is in that job, but he can't be rolling balls back to the holder.  

Addison played fairly late into the game.   Like your point about Gunner Bill.  I enjoy reading his thoughts, too. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by SectionC3

[34-78-83]

5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Agree with all of this.

 

Cody Ford is the worst pick of the Beane era by a mile when you consider the opportunity cost.  He’s just not a football player.  Total scrub.

Careful with this one. Keep in mind that players develop, especially under this staff. Lot’s of true film analysts ( cover 1 Erik Turner , etc) have stated he’s by far ( like not close) our best run blocker and is fairing decently enough in pass pro this off season. 

[Shaw66]

49 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Addison played fairly late into the game.   

Thanks. 

[Reader]

13 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Careful with this one. Keep in mind that players develop, especially under this staff. Lot’s of true film analysts ( cover 1 Erik Turner , etc) have stated he’s by far ( like not close) our best run blocker and is fairing decently enough in pass pro this off season. 

 

Yeah, they're also ignoring the fact that Ford played great in the first two preseason games. I'm not sure which Ford we'll get during the regular season, but it's not like he has been absolutely terrible all camp.

[HappyDays]

Speaking of players that were getting snaps late in the game, Oliver was still getting snaps at the start of the 2nd half when other defensive starters were off the field. That has actually been a theme throughout the whole preseason. What are we to make of that? It makes me wonder if the staff is somewhat down on him and trying to motivate him to take his game to the next level.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

Careful with this one. Keep in mind that players develop, especially under this staff. Lot’s of true film analysts ( cover 1 Erik Turner , etc) have stated he’s by far ( like not close) our best run blocker and is fairing decently enough in pass pro this off season. 

 

I thought he played well last week. But go watch the two plays I referenced in that first drive yesterday. Not good. 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought he played well last week. But go watch the two plays I referenced in that first drive yesterday. Not good. 

I get your point and all, but I mean you're pointing out just 2 plays. Lots of players have a bad play or 2 throughout the course of a game. It happens. With that said, in your opinion, did the plays he did well doing his assignment out number those 2 bad ones that stick out to you?

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Speaking of players that were getting snaps late in the game, Oliver was still getting snaps at the start of the 2nd half when other defensive starters were off the field. That has actually been a theme throughout the whole preseason. What are we to make of that? It makes me wonder if the staff is somewhat down on him and trying to motivate him to take his game to the next level.

 

Yea has played into the 3rd the last two weeks. I wouldn't read too much though... Zimmer and Butler were playing into the 4th. It was because they only had 5 DTs up and it was hot so I think as much as anything it was about still having a rotation. Other than their first 4 they only had Bryant. When Oliver came out late / end of 3rd Boogie moved inside more.

5 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I get your point and all, but I mean you're pointing out just 2 plays. Lots of players have a bad play or 2 throughout the course of a game. It happens. With that said, in your opinion, did the plays he did well doing his assignment out number those 2 bad ones that stick out to you?

 

I think he looked off balance generally. To me Boettger just looks more balanced in pass pro and his footwork is more consistent if a little scruffy at times. Ford definitely gets his feet too wide apart and then ends up lunging because he can't shuffle. If the Bills were a run first offense I'd put Cody Ford in to start, but the type of offense we are Boettger (who as I say gave up the hit on Allen on the TD throw to Moss so wasn't faultless himself) would be my guy. 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea has played into the 3rd the last two weeks.

 

Oliver only played 6 snaps last week vs Chicago.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Simon said:

 

Oliver only played 6 snaps last week vs Chicago.

 

Oh my bad. For some reason I had in my head he stayed in last week too. 

 

In that case I am even stronger of the view it was just about having enough guys for the rotation in the heat last night. The other backend DT who played last week was IR'd this week wasn't he?

Edited August 29, 2021 by GunnerBill

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

It's too bad Lamp couldnt stay healthy. I thought he would have been an upgrade as a pass protector at one of the guard spots. Ford and Feliciano are both better run blockers, and in this offense that skill set just doesn't fit.

 

Also I would add Edmunds to the bad night. I rewatched the game last night and he was personally responsible for a lot of big plays. There was that one play where Love found an absolutely wide open receiver in the middle of the field. The Packers ran a misdirection run fake that Edmunds bit on hard. While pursuing the fake ball carrier, he got pushed to the ground by an O-lineman and slowly got up just in time to see a huge pass completion in the area of the field he had vacated. I can't say for sure if the open man would have been his responsibility, but it was a bad look for him.

Play you’re referring to is at the 3:35 mark. Edmunds fits in Agap for his run responsibilities and stays with RB leaking flat. That’s been his job and his cues for run/run fakes. Guy who ends up w the ball is lined up as a TE and it’s actually Milano who lets him go by biting on playaction. 
 

*you can run the video on YouTube at .25x speed to slow it down