Edgerrin James made the HOF?

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree but again I ask can you write the story of the NFL without those two comebacks in the Superbowl? My answer is no and so I'd put him in. 

I think you write the story of the NFL without him.  But it might include others for various reasons (not their great playing career) who are not in.   Who decided we write the story of the NFL and then everyone mentioned is then a HOF?

[GunnerBill]

54 minutes ago, mattynh said:

I think you write the story of the NFL without him.  But it might include others for various reasons (not their great playing career) who are not in.   Who decided we write the story of the NFL and then everyone mentioned is then a HOF?

 

That has always been my test. It is the Hall of Fame the key characters in the league's story should be in. 

[BillMafia716ix]

Edgerrin James getting in pretty much makes LeSean McCoy a lock for canton. Fred Taylor needs some consideration as well.

[Stank_Nasty]

On 8/8/2021 at 5:58 AM, KzooMike said:

But how does it look without Peyton?

 

Thurman was a trend setter. He redefined what a RB can do giving people like James a new path. The rest that followed, specifically if they had an elite QB, I don't trust the numbers. It starts to become who were you drafted by? James was an excellent player, but I still think the Peyton led Colts don't skip a beat without him and if he was drafted by the Bengals we aren't talking about this.

 

HOF players have to be capable of taking over a game or be responsible for a shift in play. I said Thurman earlier because like Thurman, James was applauded for his dual skill set. That said, Thurman allowed James to be James. So you can speak in similar terms with both but only one of them was a trend setter. James was never a guy that could simply take over and dominate and that should be the HOF standard. Stats are meaningless in this conversation. Could James take over a game without Peyton? I don't see it. 

  

No not even close. The stats are plenty meaningful in every HOF convo. This is so off base it hurts. James had 4 different 1500 yd seasons! That’s taking over. Hands down. And go back and find me another RB playing with manning that came even remotely close to James production. 
 

Also you can’t seriously sit there and rip James for having an elite QB and then give Thomas a nod. Kelly was a top 3-5 qb all through Thomas’ prime. 
 

Let’s also not pretend like Thomas was the first dual threat back. Roger craig was a two way monster in the 80’s. 
 

Just a really rough post on your part all the way around. Really missed the mark. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Stank_Nasty

[Clyde Smith]

It's weird to me now. I am at the age where I remember when guys inducted was drafted. I'm in my late forties and haven't missed a draft since 96. I remember watching Suggs and Polumalu drafted and laughing because these dudes looked so hardcore but crying like babies when drafted. I know it's emotional for them but funny as hell to me. Damn I'm old lol.

[CaliBills]

Ha - I played against him in High School (he played for Immokalee High).  He had a cast on one arm and still ran for 200+ yards.  He was a man amongst boys back in the 90's

 

I am happy for him especially coming from Southwest FL like him. 

 

Well Deserved

Edited August 8, 2021 by CaliBills

[Not at the table Karlos]

14 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

He was very good. HOF worthy? Yeah, I guess. Seen a lot of players less qualified let in. Almost 16,000 scrimmage yards in a career is impressive. Never duplicated his magnificent rookie season.

Uhh what? His second year was better than his first. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree but again I ask can you write the story of the NFL without those two comebacks in the Superbowl? My answer is no and so I'd put him in. 

 

Do you lean towards Edelman getting in as well? Eli and Edelman are very similar IMO. Edelman's regular season peaks might have actually been higher than Eli's. Both have phenomenal postseason accolades. 

 

I actually lean towards no on Eli and am undecided on Edelman. 

[billsbackto81]

3 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Uhh what? His second year was better than his first. 

My mistake. I thought he came into the league in 2000. 

[without a drought]

4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Uhh what? His second year was better than his 

So he didn't duplicate it, he bettered it.

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree but again I ask can you write the story of the NFL without those two comebacks in the Superbowl? My answer is no and so I'd put him in. 

Agreed. Bear in mind that it is called the hall of FAME, not the hall of great. Eli’s two comebacks against the Pats in the SB are justly among the most famous events in the annals of NFL history.

[klos63]

9 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Frank Gore is much more worthy than Edgerrin. I don’t see Edgerrin as a HoF player. The NFL story can be told with out him. 

Why not?

[Rico]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. Bear in mind that it is called the hall of FAME, not the hall of great. Eli’s two comebacks against the Pats in the SB are justly among the most famous events in the annals of NFL history.

Exactly. Hall of FAME. To me, James is most famous for the Colts dumping Marshall Faulk for him.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rico

[klos63]

5 hours ago, KzooMike said:

But how does it look without Peyton?

 

Thurman was a trend setter. He redefined what a RB can do giving people like James a new path. The rest that followed, specifically if they had an elite QB, I don't trust the numbers. It starts to become who were you drafted by? James was an excellent player, but I still think the Peyton led Colts don't skip a beat without him and if he was drafted by the Bengals we aren't talking about this.

 

HOF players have to be capable of taking over a game or be responsible for a shift in play. I said Thurman earlier because like Thurman, James was applauded for his dual skill set. That said, Thurman allowed James to be James. So you can speak in similar terms with both but only one of them was a trend setter. James was never a guy that could simply take over and dominate and that should be the HOF standard. Stats are meaningless in this conversation. Could James take over a game without Peyton? I don't see it. 

  

Walter Payton and Roger Craig were dual threats before Thomas , Thurman is one of my all time favorite players, but he was not a trend setter, he was just better than most before and after him.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, HOUSE said:

1st time ballet for sure

 

 

First ballot? Gore? Don't kid a kidder.

 

Eventually? Could be.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

15 minutes ago, Rico said:

Exactly. Hall of FAME. To me, James is most famous for the Colts dumping Marshall Faulk for him.

 

 

If it were really all about fame you'd have about 3 OLs, 100 QBs, 50 RBs, 50 WRs, maybe 30 sack artists and a few mashers like Butkus.

 

It's got to be mostly about worthiness.

[stuvian]

very deserving

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

On 8/7/2021 at 6:32 PM, Buffalo03 said:

Did anyone else ever see him as a HOF player? 

Had the exact same reaction. 

[Victory Formation]

He was a great back, although I think his YPC is a bit lower than it would have been had he played in a different offense. The Colts ran the wishbone and single back formations quite a bit because it opened up options for Peyton by spreading the ball around and by giving him multiple receiver options. For power running teams, I think these are weak formations to run the ball out of, but it’s better for pass happy teams.

 

Edge was good. Consistently good, similarly to the way Curtis Martin was, 4-yds and a cloud of dust. I think consistency and longevity says something. For this reason I think Gore will get in someday as well.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:18 PM, Canadian Bills Fan said:

 

 

Thats a great point. 

 

Does longevity count towards getting in the HOF? I mean sure stats do but it took Gore almost 20 seasons to get them

Andre Reed was a compiler. 
 

I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards.

 

 

[Chaos]

The word is "Fame" not "Great"  or "Elite".  Guys like Kurt Warner and Frank Gore have the fame factor. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I've never liked the "tell the story of the NFL" argument for choosing HOFers. For example, why on earth would a player as fascinating as Ryan Fitzpatrick, the ultimate journeyman QB, be left out of the story of the NFL? That would be a major omission. So is Fitz a HOFer? As a unique player and the story he brought to the league? The answer would be, Yes. He's first ballot in that regard. On ability and talent compared to his peers? He wouldn't even make a wall of fame for a team let alone the be nominated for the HOF.

 

I would love to see Fitz make it to the HOF. And if he were, that would truly be going the route of "can you tell the story of the NFL without them or not". 

[HardyBoy]

17 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

He was a great back, although I think his YPC is a bit lower than it would have been had he played in a different offense. The Colts ran the wishbone and single back formations quite a bit because it opened up options for Peyton by spreading the ball around and by giving him multiple receiver options. For power running teams, I think these are weak formations to run the ball out of, but it’s better for pass happy teams.

 

Edge was good. Consistently good, similarly to the way Curtis Martin was, 4-yds and a cloud of dust. I think consistency and longevity says something. For this reason I think Gore will get in someday as well.

I think you’re undervaluing Curtis Martin. He individually destroyed the bills in at least a  few games over the course of his career.
 

Man the AFC East was loaded at RB for a while in the late 90s through mid 2000s…Curtis Martin, Ricky Williams in his prime, Antwone Smith for a brief time, Travis Henry was pretty solid. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by HardyBoy

[HardyBoy]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_yds_career.htm

 

This is decently crazy. There have been just over 200 players who have ever rushed for at least 4,000 career yards in the nfl.

 

Edge James ran for over 10k yards in 10 seasons, which is pretty wild looking at that chart.  He did that as part of arguably the leagues best passing offense ever. 

[Malazan]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:36 PM, RobbRiddick said:

I'd have to look at his stats but from memory he was Hall of Very Good. I've had this problem for a while now, a lot of guys get in who I don't think should, but that's just me. I think the HOF should be the absolute best of the best, the real legends, if that means less people going in so be it.

 

I had the same problem as you did, but someone pointed out it's the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Very Good", not the "Hall of the Very Best Stats" or anything else. So the problem that many people have isn't that such and such player "deserves" to be in the "Hall of Fame", but that a different "Hall" is desired all together. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Again...

 

RYAN FITZPATRICK FOR THE HALL OF FAME!

 

 

13 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I've never liked the "tell the story of the NFL" argument for choosing HOFers. For example, why on earth would a player as fascinating as Ryan Fitzpatrick, the ultimate journeyman QB, be left out of the story of the NFL? That would be a major omission. So is Fitz a HOFer? As a unique player and the story he brought to the league? The answer would be, Yes. He's first ballot in that regard. On ability and talent compared to his peers? He wouldn't even make a wall of fame for a team let alone the be nominated for the HOF.

 

I would love to see Fitz make it to the HOF. And if he were, that would truly be going the route of "can you tell the story of the NFL without them or not". 

 

Yes. For the exact reasons you state.

 

He's played on, and started for, over 25% of the teams in the NFL. And EVERY fan base loves him. He absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[RyanC883]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:22 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

That has always been my test. It is the Hall of Fame the key characters in the league's story should be in. 

 

I think key individuals plus legendary career.  Eli is too much two huge flash in the pans to an otherwise average career.  

[Rico]

On 8/12/2021 at 9:16 PM, Chaos said:

The word is "Fame" not "Great"  or "Elite".  Guys like Kurt Warner and Frank Gore have the fame factor. 

Nothing against Frank Gore, but how is he famous? Marshawn Lynch / Beast Mode, yes.

[Chaos]

Just now, Rico said:

Nothing against Frank Gore, but how is he famous? Marshawn Lynch / Beast Mode, yes.

Is there any serious football fan over the age of thirty who does not know who Frank Gore is? 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:24 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Andre Reed was a compiler. 
 

I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards.

 

 

 

Yeah? So was Bruce Smith. Would he be the all-time sack leader if he didn't play for 18 years? No, but that doesn't matter. Health & longevity are as equally as important as any other physical skill set and should ALWAYS be considered when discussing a players overall ability. 💯

[Rico]

13 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Is there any serious football fan over the age of thirty who does not know who Frank Gore is? 

He’s played a long time and he’s run for a lot of yards.
 

Can you name at least one signature game he had or play he made? Maybe I just forgot.

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Rico said:

He’s played a long time and he’s run for a lot of yards.
 

Can you name at least one signature game he had or play he made? Maybe I just forgot.

Famous = people knowing you are. Frank Gore is famous among football fans. Its not really a complicated concept.  

[Rico]

17 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Famous = people knowing you are. Frank Gore is famous among football fans. Its not really a complicated concept.  

I think when they show the list of all-time leading rushers in NFL history that more fans are surprised he’s there.

Emmitt Smith? ‘ Yeah.’

Walter Payton? ‘Sure.’

Frank Gore? ‘What?’

Edited August 18, 2021 by Rico

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 8/7/2021 at 4:15 PM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

The interesting one will be Frank Gore. Was Gore ever elite? Maybe one year? But he has like 17,000 scrimmage yards. HOF worthy IMO. But never a guy who was really elite. 

He probably gets in. Not by being elite but staying competitive for as long he has is impressive.

[Brennan Huff]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:24 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Andre Reed was a compiler. 
 

I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards.

 

 

[Nelius]

He might be right on the...edge (cringe)...but he belongs. He's got more rushing yards than Thurman. He had 3,262 rushing yards his first two years! Led the league both seasons. He was a monster when he first came into the league. He preceded AP in terms of entering the league and just instantly being the scariest back.

 

Heck, Pro Football Reference which are much smarter than you or I when it comes to this stuff have a HOF Meter index that compiles all relevant stats to gauge a guy's chances for making the Hall, and Edge is right there at the cut off, so it seems that he's there statistically. I further agree that longevity, durability, etc. also do count. Curtis Martin was the perfect example before Gore. There are probably less than 10 RBs who were out of this world electric for more than a couple of years tops, so being very good for a decade+ is definitely worth something.

 

MLB is getting even worse at this imo to go off on a wild tangent, They're apparently even reviving a couple of committees to comb back through players that didn't get into the Hall, to see if they belong now apparently. Harold Baines? Now that's a hall of very good. Edge is arguably a top 10 RB of all time - he may just crack the list for sure, but he's orbiting around the 9th/10th spot. That's worth something. He's a step above McCoy, in my personal opinion, who jumps Corey Dillon and Fred Taylor as the ultimate borderline RB candidate that will never get in.

[Nelius]

Will add that if it's at all about "the story of the NFL" more so than stats and rings, then Marshawn should be an absolute lock. Doubtful, but I think he was more impactful/legendary than McCoy, Taylor, Dillon, etc.

[Nelius]

On 8/8/2021 at 5:48 AM, BillMafia716ix said:

Edgerrin James getting in pretty much makes LeSean McCoy a lock for canton. Fred Taylor needs some consideration as well.

 

I think of this differently. He's got better stats than both of them, and is likely the new floor, so now neither of them are getting in.

 

Other HOF backs other than Thurman that have fewer yards than Edgerrin James - Marcus Allen, Franco Harris, John Riggins, OJ Simpson. And then also Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, Steven Jackson, etc. etc. If they're going to keep accepting RBs then he's clearly the best choice right now.

[Rico]

12 hours ago, Nelius said:

Will add that if it's at all about "the story of the NFL" more so than stats and rings, then Marshawn should be an absolute lock. Doubtful, but I think he was more impactful/legendary than McCoy, Taylor, Dillon, etc.

Beast Mode would be 1st-ballot for me.

[eball]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:24 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I’d argue Thurman Thomas was too. A couple of highlight seasons, but in general he was a compiler on rushing and got in on scrimmage yards.

 

Umm, Thurman led the league from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons.  Who else has done that? (Hint: nobody)  He was also a big time playoff performer.  Compiler my arse.  Frank Gore is the ultimate compiler.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by eball