QB coach Ken Dorsey promoted to “Passing Game Coordinator”

[MRW]

Aw man, so now our opponents just need to see who sends in a play. If it's Dorsey they'll know it's a pass.

[machine gun kelly]

14 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Wouldnt be surprised if he calls plays during the preseason.

I hope they at least give him a half each game right next to Daboll in the booth would be good for his development.  They may want him up there in the regular season for part of the game if they really have a succession plan for Dorsey.

 

Its short sighted to think if we have another excellent offensive performance in 2021 that Daboll won’t get his HC job.  He’ll deserve it at that point.

Edited July 15, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, MRW said:

Aw man, so now our opponents just need to see who sends in a play. If it's Dorsey they'll know it's a pass.

If it’s anyone, they’ll know it’s a pass

[eball]

6 hours ago, Buffalophil1948 said:

I agree that the better job is here, I'm just saying that I could see Dabol making a run at him

 

Something tells me if Daboll gets a HC job the first thing he does is NOT going to be burning bridges with McD by poaching coaches he knows McD intends to promote.

[GunnerBill]

Think this pretty much confirms as others have said that Dorsey is the OC in waiting. It almost inevitably comes down to the Bills prioritising what Josh wants. Josh has a great relationship with Dabes but also a very good relationship by this point with Dorsey. That QB-OC relationship matters. It does, however, increase the risk we lose Chad Hall. Because that guy is going to be an OC sooner rather than later. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 hours ago, MRW said:

Aw man, so now our opponents just need to see who sends in a play. If it's Dorsey they'll know it's a pass.

 

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

If it’s anyone, they’ll know it’s a pass

"Tired of not knowing what the opposition's offense is going to do?  Buy my video 'Successful Coaching Strategies' for some timely (if a bit shady) coaching (and electronic) tips!"

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Something tells me if Daboll gets a HC job the first thing he does is NOT going to be burning bridges with McD by poaching coaches he knows McD intends to promote.

McD knows how this works-It will depend on the relationship Dorsey has with both guys. Obviously we all would like to see Dorsey stay to keep the continuity, and Dorsey may want to stay because of Josh, but I don’t think you are burning bridges by offering jobs to guys he knows. Daboll may also want to call his own plays and might not have an interest in bringing Dorsey with him. In any event, I don’t think it is as big a deal to the coaches when guys “poach” other coaches as it is to the fans 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

McD knows how this works-It will depend on the relationship Dorsey has with both guys. Obviously we all would like to see Dorsey stay to keep the continuity, and Dorsey may want to stay because of Josh, but I don’t think you are burning bridges by offering jobs to guys he knows. Daboll may also want to call his own plays and might not have an interest in bringing Dorsey with him. In any event, I don’t think it is as big a deal to the coaches when guys “poach” other coaches as it is to the fans 

 

Agree with the bolded. Every Head Coach was once a position coach trying to make his way up the ladder. They understand that you have to take decisions for the good of your career long term. If Daboll gets a HC job and wants to take a couple of guys with him then those coaches might think "I better go because a new OC might not want me." You do reduce that risk when you create a really strong staff with continuity and an ability to promote from within, but it still exists. 

[Might Rather]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Think this pretty much confirms as others have said that Dorsey is the OC in waiting. It almost inevitably comes down to the Bills prioritising what Josh wants. Josh has a great relationship with Dabes but also a very good relationship by this point with Dorsey. That QB-OC relationship matters. It does, however, increase the risk we lose Chad Hall. Because that guy is going to be an OC sooner rather than later. 

It is exciting to have so many great assistant coaches... wasn't that long ago we struggled to find a decent head coach

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

McD knows how this works-It will depend on the relationship Dorsey has with both guys. Obviously we all would like to see Dorsey stay to keep the continuity, and Dorsey may want to stay because of Josh, but I don’t think you are burning bridges by offering jobs to guys he knows. Daboll may also want to call his own plays and might not have an interest in bringing Dorsey with him. In any event, I don’t think it is as big a deal to the coaches when guys “poach” other coaches as it is to the fans 

It's often agreed upon behind the scenes who you're allowed to take and who you aren't allowed to take.  

 

It's a fairly big deal so they sort it out ahead of time. 
 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree with the bolded. Every Head Coach was once a position coach trying to make his way up the ladder. They understand that you have to take decisions for the good of your career long term. If Daboll gets a HC job and wants to take a couple of guys with him then those coaches might think "I better go because a new OC might not want me." You do reduce that risk when you create a really strong staff with continuity and an ability to promote from within, but it still exists. 

I'm not sure this makes sense in the context of Dorsey? Dorsey is set up to be the next OC here with Josh... where both are very comfortable with each other... why would Dorsey follow Daboll? When Daboll leaves and Dorsey moves up don't you think coaches have already discussed where they stand with Dorsey and the organization as a whole?

 

A succession plan is already in place. The only guys leaving are the guys they're ok with leaving. 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

A succession plan is already in place. The only guys leaving are the guys they're ok with leaving. 

 

Healthy organizations engage in succession planning in the ordinary course.  (Does yours?)

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Healthy organizations engage in succession planning in the ordinary course.  (Does yours?)

Yes. People are being groomed for certain roles... maybe not outwardly for every person (some know they're being groomed to take over position X while others don't)... but the things that they're exposed to are preparing them for future duties.

 

The higher ups are aware and keep tabs/place people in certain circles for specific reasons.

Edited July 15, 2021 by JGMcD2

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

 

I'm not sure this makes sense in the context of Dorsey? Dorsey is set up to be the next OC here with Josh... where both are very comfortable with each other... why would Dorsey follow Daboll? When Daboll leaves and Dorsey moves up don't you think coaches have already discussed where they stand with Dorsey and the organization as a whole?

 

A succession plan is already in place. The only guys leaving are the guys they're ok with leaving. 

 

 

 

I wasn't making that point at all. I was making a general point about Head Coaches not resenting Coordinators who leave to become Head Coaches taking other staff. I don't know where you got the idea I thought Dorsey was likely to go with Dabes. 

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wasn't making that point at all. I was making a general point about Head Coaches not resenting Coordinators who leave to become Head Coaches taking other staff. I don't know where you got the idea I thought Dorsey was likely to go with Dabes. 

The post you were replying to was someone mulling over the idea of Dorsey going with Daboll or staying with us and you never stated otherwise in your post.

 

May have just mashed it all together in my head lol

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

The post you were replying to was someone mulling over the idea of Dorsey going with Daboll or staying with us and you never stated otherwise in your post.

 

May have just mashed it all together in my head lol

 

I said I was specifically agreeing with the bold point which was the more general "coaches don't get as angry about coaches getting poached as fans". 

 

Dorsey will replace Daboll if he leaves after this season. If Daboll stays we could lose Dorsey elsewhere. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Now bring in Barkley for QB coach.

 

Why?  What has Barkley said or done that gives you the impression 1) he wants to coach 2) he would be a good QB coach

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree with the bolded. Every Head Coach was once a position coach trying to make his way up the ladder. They understand that you have to take decisions for the good of your career long term. If Daboll gets a HC job and wants to take a couple of guys with him then those coaches might think "I better go because a new OC might not want me." You do reduce that risk when you create a really strong staff with continuity and an ability to promote from within, but it still exists. 

 

Agree.  Unless Daboll thinks he will need another job under McD in the future, why wouldn't take with him whoever he can get?  What bridges does that burn?

[Doc]

15 hours ago, Buffalophil1948 said:

Dabol grooming him, just hope he doesn't try poaching him as soon as he gets a HC job. I could see Dabol  wanting him and Trubinski

 

If it's Trubinski, Dorsey definitely stays.  Same goes for Trubisky.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why?  What has Barkley said or done that gives you the impression 1) he wants to coach 2) he would be a good QB coach

 

Nothing.  I don't know if he wants to coach in the NFL.  He is unemployed though, has experience in this system, is well liked by the organization, and many former QB's become QB coaches.  He'd be hard pressed to find a job that pays more if he does retire.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 hours ago, eball said:

 

Something tells me if Daboll gets a HC job the first thing he does is NOT going to be burning bridges with McD by poaching coaches he knows McD intends to promote.

Why do you think that?  A lot would depend on if Daboll wants to call his own plays if he gets a HC job.  If he wants to install the same offense but let someone else call plays, why wouldn't he want to bring someone with him that he is familiar.  

[T master]

I think Dorsey may have had a lot to do with Josh taking the steps he did last year just the same as Cam did while he was in Carolina . I think he should be the next OC when Dabol gets his HC ing offer it would keep the stability, familiarity, and all around comfort with in the system that Josh needs to continue on his accent as a great NFL QB .

 

If i were Beane i would pull him a side and plant the seed in his ear that if Dabol does leave you are our choice for the job .

[YoloinOhio]

 

[colin]

On 7/14/2021 at 2:18 PM, DJB said:

 

 

 

Nah I'm thinking defensive coordinator 

 

 

such a crazy idea it just might work.  that kind of out of the box fresh thinking is what is needed.  would you be interested in a Job with the LV Raiders?  how attached are you to your current hair style?

[colin]

based on this and how our draft went, it's pretty clear our FO wants an open environment where everyone knows they are competing for their job, or at the very least they have replacements in the wings if people leave.

 

it kinda reminds me (in a positive sense) of pete carol.  he's jonny enthusiasm and cap'n rah rah, but if someone plays better, they will slid on into the starting role (russ is obv a great qb, but it took big guts to put him in over the FA guy in his rookie year).  even tho mcd is conservative to a fault at times, when push does come to shove he will boot the established starter for an up and comer, and it seems they are signalling to everyone that if/when coaches leave they will be replaced without missing a beat.

 

billacheat is obv the goat at this, but when you have a one side of the ball wizard like dude on the rams or fatty in KC, it can take them a while to get the D in order because the consider it the guys who have to go on the field when they don't have the ball rather than at the top of their mind.

[Chandler#81]

On 7/14/2021 at 7:21 PM, Augie said:

 

 

 

You are still a young man. @Chandler#81 and @plenzmd1 watched his grandfather play in a leather helmet. I missed that game, but I hear it was one helluva tailgate! 

 

IIRC, there was a pandemic at the time. All the referees were ill. 43 broken noses, 6 broken legs, 3 KO’s.

When Men were Men, Dammit!

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Hmmm 👀 

 

Could this change be playing into Allen’s struggles? I thought for sure that Dorsey would be key to Allen stating at an elite level. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Not even 200 yards.   The title has gone to his head.  He needs to be fired.  
 

 

 

 

 

jk

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, mattynh said:

Not even 200 yards.   The title has gone to his head.  He needs to be fired.  
 

 

 

 

 

jk

Perhaps we are in an adjustment period?

[Bferra13]

This thread started out with this being a precatautionary promotion for when dabol gets his hc gig. Right now, uh that's not looking so hot anymore. Hopefully that changes, for the good of the Bills that is. I know this isn't a Dabol thread, but my opinion is take him or leave him, whatevs.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Bferra13

[Bangarang]

I’m not even going to try and suggest this has anything to do with our offensive struggles so far because I simply don’t know what Dorsey does and how it’s different from what he did last year. 

[Steptide]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

I’m not even going to try and suggest this has anything to do with our offensive struggles so far because I simply don’t know what Dorsey does and how it’s different from what he did last year. 

Can't imagine daboll would be cool with dorsey running the offense whatsoever. Whoever is calling the offense, is making daboll look bad and I can't imagine daboll would be cool with that 

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Can't imagine daboll would be cool with dorsey running the offense whatsoever. Whoever is calling the offense, is making daboll look bad and I can't imagine daboll would be cool with that 

Are you saying you don’t think Daboll is the one calling the offense?

[Steptide]

Just now, Bangarang said:

Are you saying you don’t think Daboll is the one calling the offense?

Why wouldnt he be, and if he's not, what's he doing? 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

9 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Why wouldnt he be, and if he's not, what's he doing? 

You're the one who brought it up?

[hondo in seattle]

On 7/16/2021 at 9:14 AM, T master said:

I think Dorsey may have had a lot to do with Josh taking the steps he did last year just the same as Cam did while he was in Carolina . I think he should be the next OC when Dabol gets his HC ing offer it would keep the stability, familiarity, and all around comfort with in the system that Josh needs to continue on his accent as a great NFL QB .

 

If i were Beane i would pull him a side and plant the seed in his ear that if Dabol does leave you are our choice for the job .

I'm not sure why Beane would do this.  McD chooses his staff.  And I'm guessing McD and Dorsey have already had this conversation.  

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

Can't imagine daboll would be cool with dorsey running the offense whatsoever. Whoever is calling the offense, is making daboll look bad and I can't imagine daboll would be cool with that 

 

59 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Why wouldnt he be, and if he's not, what's he doing? 

You’re the one who said it..

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Allen has averaged about 5-6 yards per attempt so far this season, the game-plan has clearly been short-throws (and run game) focused and unfortunately he’s missed several attempts when he goes mid-deep passes. Allen is a rhythm thrower and dunk and dunk game-plan hasn’t let him get into his gun-slinger groove because it’s not his game. 

[Big Blitz]

Huh I missed this to.  So there is something different going on.

 

Likely Dorsey is responsible for the passing game plans.  How to attack a team that week.  Not impressed so far as both game plans appeared to be "yea we know that's their strength but let's attack it because maybe they won't expect us to be that reckless especially 5 wide sets vs Pittsburgh.  And throwing 14 times to Xavien Howard and Byron Jones.  Good plans.  

 

 

Time to blow that up.  Worry about replacing Dabol in the off season.   

[WhoTom]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Allen has averaged about 5-6 yards per attempt so far this season, the game-plan has clearly been short-throws (and run game) focused and unfortunately he’s missed several attempts when he goes mid-deep passes. Allen is a rhythm thrower and dunk and dunk game-plan hasn’t let him get into his gun-slinger groove because it’s not his game. 

 

Short, high-percentage passes are exactly what he needs to get in the groove. I agree that it doesn't come naturally to him, but three years ago, his game was to run whenever he got pressured. He quickly learned to be patient, buy time, and let the play develop. Josh has shown the ability to adapt and change his game when necessary. A dink and dunk offense moves the chains and keeps the opposing offense off the field, which is pretty important when you're going through the likes of KC on the way to the Super Bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

[NickelCity]

7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Likely Dorsey is responsible for the passing game plans.  How to attack a team that week.  Not impressed so far as both game plans appeared to be "yea we know that's their strength but let's attack it because maybe they won't expect us to be that reckless especially 5 wide sets vs Pittsburgh.  And throwing 14 times to Xavien Howard and Byron Jones.  Good plans.  

 

Why is that the "likely" case? I understand the hypothetical scenario you're outlining, but I'm wondering why you think it's the odds on for what's occuring, currently?