Catchin' Fades with Aqib Talib(Jordan Palmer talks Josh Allen and qb prospects)

[Stank_Nasty]

So this was a really cool 45 minute watch! Jordan touches on how the game and development of teen qb's has evolved. He touches on this years prospects and also talks about certain locker room dynamics some of them might bring. At the 42 minute mark, when their josh allen convo starts, its hard trying to wipe the smile from my face. Jordan talks about how he's worked with Watson and Mahomes, as well as playing with his brother(Carson), Jay cutler, and Jamarcus russell when he was younger. He settles on Allen being the most physically gifted qb ever, and having the strongest arm he's ever seen. Basically says theres never been a total package in the league like Allen. He then touches on how much the team loves him. If you have the time its a good watch from start to finish.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Stank_Nasty

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Hard to argue. I mean I compared him to Cam Newton based on his running ability and I wasn't even that high on him as a prospect. They were similar runners, and we know how good a runner Cam. Then his release is comparable to Aaron Rodgers. He makes throws from any position. Then his arm strength is as good as anyone. I think the question was could he put it all together. The answer is yes, but we haven't even seen his best yet. 

 

John Elway is probably everyone's most talented QB ever in terms of the whole package, size, arm, and athleticism but he wasn't the runner Allen is. He could run but not the same. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Mr. WEO]

Got to hand it to Palmer....always hustlin.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Hard to argue. I mean I compared him to Cam Newton based on his running ability and I wasn't even that high on him as a prospect. They were similar runners, and we know how good a runner Cam. Then his release is comparable to Aaron Rodgers. He makes throws from any position. Then his arm strength is as good as anyone. I think the question was could he put it all together. The answer is yes, but we haven't even seen his best yet. 

 

John Elway is probably everyone's most talented QB ever in terms of the whole package, size, arm, and athleticism but he wasn't the runner Allen is. He could run but not the same. 

Agreed. Palmer brings up Elway as the knee jerk response but then states he doesnt think he was the runner Allen is. Speed? Maybe. But actual running ability? nah.

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Agreed. Palmer brings up Elway as the knee jerk response but then states he doesnt think he was the runner Allen is. Speed? Maybe. But actual running ability? nah.

 

I caught some of this on Twitter and Palmer specifically mentioned Josh's stiff arm and how he uses it.  I have made comments on it over Josh's career.  He has used it against many notable defenders in some impressive, posterizing moments.  Barr, Ngakoue, Van Noy, Donald to name a few.  I can't think of another NFL QB I have ever seen do this as consistently, if at all.  Just hope he does it with his left hand to protect his right.  My analogy is to say that Josh could stiff arm a T-Rex and push him to the turf.   It's not like Palmer gushes this way over Darnold or Stidham or any of the other QBs he has worked with so I don't think it's anything more than a small portion of a hustle.

[Chris from Rochester]

I remember the night we drafted Allen. I was moving the next day from Rochester to NC and had to wake up super early to leave. I tried to go to bed early but was too excited about who we were going to draft. I remember checking my phone and seeing Josh, getting excited, then seeing Allen and wanting to puke. Same old Bills was my thought.

 

The next day on my drive I listened to the morning show on WGR and Palmer was on talking about Josh. The passion he had when talking about Josh made me feel better right away. So far, Josh is proving him right, and I know I'm loving the ride!

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, Chris from Rochester said:

I remember the night we drafted Allen. I was moving the next day from Rochester to NC and had to wake up super early to leave. I tried to go to bed early but was too excited about who we were going to draft. I remember checking my phone and seeing Josh, getting excited, then seeing Allen and wanting to puke. Same old Bills was my thought.

 

The next day on my drive I listened to the morning show on WGR and Palmer was on talking about Josh. The passion he had when talking about Josh made me feel better right away. So far, Josh is proving him right, and I know I'm loving the ride!

 

I think it was the result of "most pro ready" vs. "best tools but needs the most development" tags each had.  The Bills have had little success developing any QB, maybe ever.  Jim Kelly was already a star in the USFL.  Joe Ferguson, maybe, as he had some nice years on those Chuck Knox teams. Given the Bills history of QB failures,when two prospects are presented to the Bills fan base that way, I would not fault anyone for picking the one comes more "developed" and not willing to trust the coaching/player to get it done.

Edited April 28, 2021 by JESSEFEFFER

[Solomon Grundy]

He has Allen’s jersey in the background. Lol. I think the development of Josh’s game has made Palmer’s claim to fame.

[T master]

I gotta say when Josh was drafted i was not a fan & had another QB i thought was better in that draft well so much for my NFL scouting career if i had to hang my hat on the one i chose i would already be fired and out of work . 

 

Josh has definitely proved a lot of nay sayers wrong given what he has done although i didn't know any thing about him coming out i just listened to the experts & made my decision I'm glad Beane is in charge and picked Josh & it looks like given Palmer's endorsement Josh will be the class of that draft for a long time to come .

 

Go Bills !!  

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Hard to argue. I mean I compared him to Cam Newton based on his running ability and I wasn't even that high on him as a prospect. They were similar runners, and we know how good a runner Cam. Then his release is comparable to Aaron Rodgers. He makes throws from any position. Then his arm strength is as good as anyone. I think the question was could he put it all together. The answer is yes, but we haven't even seen his best yet. 

 

John Elway is probably everyone's most talented QB ever in terms of the whole package, size, arm, and athleticism but he wasn't the runner Allen is. He could run but not the same. 

For anyone out there that hasn't heard this strong a take on Josh's physical talents before you really need to take the time to watch Trent Dilfer & John Brenkus on the Rich Eisen Show discuss their "Soul and Science" take on the QB's pre 2018 draft. ***Spoiler Alert*** Josh Allen needs a little time to develop but he is like nothing like they've ever seen. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I may be alone in this but I wish Jordan Palmer would STFU about Josh

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I may be alone in this but I wish Jordan Palmer would STFU about Josh

I feel the opposite.  What Palmer has discussed has usually been a foreshadow of what's to come.  Since he seems to be a popular, available guest for all the different NFL media platforms out there, I suspect we will see more of it.  The ones to look for are those coming in the normal Super Bowl media week when Jordan is hyping Josh on the worldwide stage.😉

[Malazan]

Jordan Palmer also said Sam Darnold was going to be great. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

This is a good time to "consider the source", but that doesn't mean I don't like what I see/hear.

 

Edit: Although a reasonable counter point is that Palmer would be taking credit away from himself by touting Allen as naturally gifted over being molded (not that both can't be true).

Edited April 28, 2021 by JohnBonhamRocks

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

This is a good time to "consider the source", but that doesn't mean I don't like what I see/hear.

The source also stated he’s worked with Watson and mahomes in some capacity. He had a Watson jersey sitting there on his wall as well. Palmer has no real need to make the claims he’s making about Allen. He’s a made man already. He doesn’t need to just sit there a sugarcoat or for business purposes. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Stank_Nasty

[MJS]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I may be alone in this but I wish Jordan Palmer would STFU about Josh

Why would he? Josh Allen is a success story for his business.

[Stank_Nasty]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I may be alone in this but I wish Jordan Palmer would STFU about Josh

You may not be alone but I bet it’s a small group and I cannot understand why you feel that way. But you do you. 

[StHustle]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I may be alone in this but I wish Jordan Palmer would STFU about Josh

 

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why would he? Josh Allen is a success story for his business.

 

Yes...I'm pretty sure Jordan has a waiting list at this point and can demand top dollar all cause of his success with Josh.

 

Also people should appreciate Jordan, even tho it's impossible to measure how much credit he should get...its clear he has positively impacted Josh's game and we as Bills fans finally have a contender because of it.

 

You can't be upset about him emphasizing his biggest success story when this is clearly what he is doing for a living right now.

 

LONG LIVE JORDAN PALMER!

[4merper4mer]

19 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Jordan Palmer also said Sam Darnold was going to be great. 

His formula was off.  The Gase coefficient is tricky to calculate even for the greatest scientific minds.

[fergie's ire]

Has anyone heard about Allen's offseason work this year?  It seems we always get reports about working with Palmer or working with receivers, and I haven't heard anything this year.  It's probably because there is less focus since he has made it....but I just worry slightly that he is losing that chip on that shoulder and not trying as hard to progress.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Yes...I'm pretty sure Jordan has a waiting list at this point and can demand top dollar all cause of his success with Josh.

 

Also people should appreciate Jordan, even tho it's impossible to measure how much credit he should get...its clear he has positively impacted Josh's game and we as Bills fans finally have a contender because of it.

 

You can't be upset about him emphasizing his biggest success story when this is clearly what he is doing for a living right now.

 

LONG LIVE JORDAN PALMER!

 

I don't mean highlighting Josh, but the over-the-top stuff about "most physically talented QB ever"

I feel it's setting Josh up to be a lightening rod for certain factions and we don't need that, neither does Josh

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Has anyone heard about Allen's offseason work this year?  It seems we always get reports about working with Palmer or working with receivers, and I haven't heard anything this year.  It's probably because there is less focus since he has made it....but I just worry slightly that he is losing that chip on that shoulder and not trying as hard to progress.

 

No, haven't heard about off season work.  Seen a friends trip to Palm Springs, big wedding for his brother, Vegas for his girl's birthday. 

Guy can't be all work though.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't mean highlighting Josh, but the over-the-top stuff about "most physically talented QB ever"

I feel it's setting Josh up to be a lightening rod for certain factions and we don't need that, neither does Josh

 

The thing is, he might actually be the most talented QB ever from a physical standpoint. He does appear to have the strongest arm in terms of velocity ever measured (an unbelievable 68 at his pro day and over 70 on one other occasion), and it's doubtful that QBs in the 1960s/1970s threw as hard as him unless there's an equivalent of Nolan Ryan from that era that I'm missing. Josh was throwing 91 as a high school pitcher, which isn't crazy high (but still pretty good), but the thing is that he grew three-four inches *after* HS (he was 6'1" 180 as a senior: https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/6207/how-josh-allen-s-perseverance-earned-him-a-spot-in-the-nfl). I'm guessing he'd have been slinging 100+ eventually if he had chosen baseball. On top of that, he's just a phenomenal athlete for someone that size.

Edited April 28, 2021 by dave mcbride

[teef]

i haven't had time to watch the video yet, but i heard talib on sirius nfl a few weeks back, (i think it was his first time on) and he was outstanding.  my first impression was that he's a bit rough around the edges, but what a great listen the guy was.  i'll go out of my way to check his stuff out more.

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Got to hand it to Palmer....always hustlin.

Well he ain't wrong...

[JESSEFEFFER]

32 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't mean highlighting Josh, but the over-the-top stuff about "most physically talented QB ever"

I feel it's setting Josh up to be a lightening rod for certain factions and we don't need that, neither does Josh

 

 

Ok, I get it now.  When I hear "......the best of all time" I cringe and feel the "now wait just a second! We'll just see about that!" feeling.  That's "upstart" Duke beating UNLV in the 1991 Final Four.  And, to add to that, I want to say that when said "best ever" flops or is proven to be not so, I am mostly pleased.  But, watching Josh play QB, I see a Roy Hobbs quality about him, his background and the way he does football his way.  The American version of a Greek Hero doing things I have never seen others do.  I love this stuff and he is on our team.  He is our guy, for once.  Harriet Bird and Memo Paris stay away.

Edited April 28, 2021 by JESSEFEFFER

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

The source also stated he’s worked with Watson and mahomes in some capacity. He had a Watson jersey sitting there on his wall as well. Palmer has no real need to make the claims he’s making about Allen. He’s a made man already. He doesn’t need to just sit there a sugarcoat or for business purposes. 

 

He also said Allen might be at the top of the list, so he was not even really making that claim in full.

I do still think, made man or not, it does not hurt for Palmer to highlight his most recent QB guru success story. 

[starrymessenger]

7 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

So this was a really cool 45 minute watch! Jordan touches on how the game and development of teen qb's has evolved. He touches on this years prospects and also talks about certain locker room dynamics some of them might bring. At the 42 minute mark, when their josh allen convo starts, its hard trying to wipe the smile from my face. Jordan talks about how he's worked with Watson and Mahomes, as well as playing with his brother(Carson), Jay cutler, and Jamarcus russell when he was younger. He settles on Allen being the most physically gifted qb ever, and having the strongest arm he's ever seen. Basically says theres never been a total package in the league like Allen. He then touches on how much the team loves him. If you have the time its a good watch from start to finish.

 

 

Nice to hear. When in his draft year I started looking at Allen’s Wyoming tape I couldn’t believe what was jumping out at me in the way of athleticism. I had never seen anything quite like it. There are different athletic strengths and some are best suited to different sports. To me Allen’s physical talents were particularly well suited to the requirements of playing QB in the NFL. Someone recently posted that Lamar was a better athlete than Allen but that Josh was the. better QB. Josh is the better QB but he is also the better athlete for playing the position. The reason is what he gives up in the comparison as a runner he more than makes up for in arm strength. Much more given that its mostly a passing league. His other worldly athleticism was also the reason that I was always pretty sure he could develop. Anybody that gifted should be able to refine his passing game it seemed to me.

Having said that his progress to date far exceeds what I expected to see. Dude is flat out ridiculous.

 

[Shaw66]

Wow.   Just wow.  

 

We knew Palmer like him, but he's talking about Allen like Allen is Superman.  Amazing.  

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't mean highlighting Josh, but the over-the-top stuff about "most physically talented QB ever"

I feel it's setting Josh up to be a lightening rod for certain factions and we don't need that, neither does Josh

 

Most physically talented is actually the easy part to defend.  He doesn't run a game like Peyton or Brady, so to be the best ever, he has a way to go.  But most physically talented is an easy argument.   In the top 5% or better in pure size at 6'5", 250.  Speed, according to Palmer, he's way up there, with only a few like Lamar Jackson and Vick better.  Strongest arm ever, according to Palmer.  Makes all the throws.  Better ball carrier that all but a few.   

 

Nobody's ever been at or near the top of all the physical categories.  Josh is. 

[Don Otreply]

7 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Jordan Palmer also said Sam Darnold was going to be great. 

Two words for ya on that; Adam Gase, it’s like the right and left bower of defeat...

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

Has anyone heard about Allen's offseason work this year?  It seems we always get reports about working with Palmer or working with receivers, and I haven't heard anything this year.  It's probably because there is less focus since he has made it....but I just worry slightly that he is losing that chip on that shoulder and not trying as hard to progress.

 

He lost the AFCCG and if you think he is OK with that I would have to disagree.

I would hope he worked on muscle memory of his new throwing platform and technique.

Continuously watching game film on recognizing defenses I'm sure has also been done.

 

As for "type of passes" to improve.  I'm going to think his screens and swing passes leave the most to improve on.

I also think that will be a emphasis along with the running game/rush blocking this camp.

I would like to see Josh lead the RBs better in his screen passes.   

[Bad Things]

I love you, Josh Allen!

[RobbRiddick]

Talib reminds me of Foghorn Leghorn when he speaks. "I say, I say" "Let me ask you, let me ask you"

 

[Warcodered]

7 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

Has anyone heard about Allen's offseason work this year?  It seems we always get reports about working with Palmer or working with receivers, and I haven't heard anything this year.  It's probably because there is less focus since he has made it....but I just worry slightly that he is losing that chip on that shoulder and not trying as hard to progress.

I think he mentioned he'd be working with Palmer in that interview with Kyle Brandt.

[Dukestreetking]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Strongest arm ever, according to Palmer

It ain't just Palmer. 

 

I've seen the vid before, kindly posted again by @ProcessAccepted, but according to Brenkus he has the strongest arm ever measured.

 

I don't want to start a side debate about methodological concerns, stated in 2018, etc.

 

But....that has to count for sumpin'.

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Jordan Palmer also said Sam Darnold was going to be great. 

I think he is getting to be great.  He's just had a little setback known as the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets.  

 

The guy is smart, mobile, has a live arm.  I like Allen's play as a rookie, and Darnold was better.  The last two seasons with the Jets, Tom Brady's love child with Mrs. Archie Manning would have looked like a loser.  

[Doc]

Josh is the prototypical QB.  You name it, he's got it.  The only thing you could possibly improve upon is foot speed to someone like Vick.

[GETTOTHE50]

I ❤️ JA17

[Malazan]

 

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Two words for ya on that; Adam Gase, it’s like the right and left bower of defeat...

 

46 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think he is getting to be great.  He's just had a little setback known as the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets.  

 

The guy is smart, mobile, has a live arm.  I like Allen's play as a rookie, and Darnold was better.  The last two seasons with the Jets, Tom Brady's love child with Mrs. Archie Manning would have looked like a loser.  

 

I'll take that bet.

 

Regardless of circumstances, Darnold was the worst QB in the NFL. I watched their games (and enjoyed it greatly) last season and when he had no pressure on him he seemed confused about who actually played for his team, took a long time to process the field, making sill mental errors like running out of bounds behind the line (multiple times) and was not in command of the offense at all. The *SAME* problems he had in college.

 

I'm not sure why a guy who had problems in college, continued those problems in the pros is suddenly going to turn it around because he gets the 'good' coaching. On top of that, it's exceedingly rare that a clear top 10 bust (let's say 20th and below for 3 years running) leaves the team that drafted them and then goes on to success elsewhere. There's a reason for that.

 

Most of his "he's gonna turn it around" hype seems to be from people who are carrying over that Darnold was a highly touted prospect in the draft and haven't watched him in the last two years.

 

Gase is a control freak buffoon who only ever had success when he was getting Manning coffee, but Darnold was awful. Their offense performed better with the animated corpse of a disinterested Joe Flacco. Both gase and Darnold can be bad at the same time. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by jeremy2020

[wppete]

I dont know if we would argue with him when it comes to Josh being possibly the most physically gifted (purely physical attributes I think he was talking about) a QB to have ever played the game when it comes to Height , weight, speed, strength, athleticism and above all Arm strength... I mean what other QBs could we put in that category? John Elway? What other QBs could we put on that list?