Do WR’s hate Lamar Jackson ?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Somehow this announcement will result in Sammy Watkins missing 6-8 weeks with a foot injury.🤷🏻‍♂️

[97bills]

On 3/25/2021 at 10:24 AM, Seoulofstone said:

Baltimore isn't an offense that will make you look great as a WR.  But they are a long-standing playoff caliber team. If the dollars are there players won't turn it down.

 

 This has been the theme on the ravens board since they lost to the BIlls. It's a tough one. Do you reject a scheme that has you a perennial contender because you think you are too one dimensional? If so you risk asking Lamar to not play to his best strengths. Do you invest in a position which won't best be used in that scheme?

 

 Quite the dilemma.

Perfectly said. 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I'm guessing they don't want other teams to see how good he has become at pump faking and then running for 20 yards.

[wjag]

News I recently saw was LJ and the other B'more QBs are making a point of emphasis this off season on throwing the deep ball.  He is also taking more snaps under center.  I suspect we are going to see a more typical pro offense out of B'more this year.  I think every team knows you can't run your QB indefinitely.  Sooner or later, he's going to get popped by someone.  Should be interesting to see if they activate all the new toys they drafted and brought in during FA.

[machine gun kelly]

Wjag, liking the assessment, but the problem is it took an incredible overachiever and worker nut like Allen three years to get there, and he’s not done.

 

LJ has a long way to go and not showing his throwing drills sounds more like he is behind.  LJ will take a couple of years for him to be great.  He might, but it’s going to take time. Not this year.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I have yet to hear of Jackson taking the WR corps for burgers, fries, and shakes after practice...🤔

[wppete]

How  smart does Beane look now because of 2018 draft! What a wizard 🧙‍♂️!!!! Lamar is a good QB and seems like a great guy but Josh Allen is on a complete other level. 
 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by wppete

[BillsShredder83]

How many times have we seen these pure running qbs come I'm and crush it for 1-3years, and then just fall off the face of the earth. Lamar doesn't scare me, and shouldn't scare anyone else.  He's wasted 3 years not developing his arm and is still a huge question mark. I see him bouncing around the league like Sam Bradford in 2 years. He'll bridge for 4 or 5 teams 

Edited June 17, 2021 by BillsShredder83

[TheFunPolice]

I remember when Aaron Rodgers couldn't win in the playoffs too..

 

Oh wait...

 

LOL

 

But seriously, Lamar is a dangerous QB, and the Ravens were a few plays from being in the AFC Title Game. Bills were the better team, but IMO the Ravens were #3 in a pretty loaded AFC. No reason to change what they are doing. People just want to criticize Lamar because he is unique. 
 

The Ravens did the smart thing: design an offense totally around him and go all-in. 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Captain Hindsight]

12 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

How many times have we seen these pure running qbs come I'm and crush it for 1-3years, and then just fall off the face of the earth. Lamar doesn't scare me, and shouldn't scare anyone else.  He's wasted 3 years not developing his arm and is still a huge question mark. I see him bouncing around the league like Sam Bradford in 2 years. He'll bridge for 4 or 5 teams 

I think he sticks in Baltimore. He is too dynamic of an athlete and by all accounts a great guy. I'm not scared of Lamar, but I think he is good enough to be one of 32 starters in the NFL.

 

He will be successful as long as the Ravens build around him. His skill set is sooooo elite its hard not to believe in him. I think he is an effective enough passer to be a starter. But he will never win games purely on his arm, he just hasn't developed enough in that department 

[TheFunPolice]

There is such a fine line between winning and losing in the playoffs. 

 

Browns, Colts and Ravens ALL could easily have advanced further last year, except for a few plays here and there that cost them. 

 

In that scenario, a wild card like Lamar can strike a defense at any time. The Ravens are never out of it with him, and that's worth a lot. 

 

Lamar can do nothing for 3 quarters then suddenly become unstoppable. He's a special and unique talent. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

How  smart does Beane look now because of 2018 draft! What a wizard 🧙‍♂️!!!! Lamar is a good QB and seems like a great guy but Josh Allen is on a complete other level. 
 

 

 

They are different QBs, for sure.

 

But, over the last 2 seasons, LJ has thrown for more TDs (62 vs 57), fewer INTs (15 vs 19), a higher completion % (65 vs 64) and a higher rating than Josh.  Plus the 2200 yards rushing...

 

LJ had a tougher year last season.  Will see what happens this year.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They are different QBs, for sure.

 

But, over the last 2 seasons, LJ has thrown for more TDs (62 vs 57), fewer INTs (15 vs 19), a higher completion % (65 vs 64) and a higher rating than Josh.  Plus the 2200 yards rushing...

 

LJ had a tougher year last season.  Will see what happens this year.

 

Lamar is really good, and I like to see football teams play the game in different ways. It's what makes football so much fun to watch, follow, and discuss. 

 

 

 

 

[wppete]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They are different QBs, for sure.

 

But, over the last 2 seasons, LJ has thrown for more TDs (62 vs 57), fewer INTs (15 vs 19), a higher completion % (65 vs 64) and a higher rating than Josh.  Plus the 2200 yards rushing...

 

LJ had a tougher year last season.  Will see what happens this year.

If you were building a team right now and had to choose between Josh or Lamar who do you build around?

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, wppete said:

If you were building a team right now and had to choose between Josh or Lamar who do you build around?

 

 

Josh, hands down.  Anyone would.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

25 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

There is such a fine line between winning and losing in the playoffs. 

 

Browns, Colts and Ravens ALL could easily have advanced further last year, except for a few plays here and there that cost them. 

 

In that scenario, a wild card like Lamar can strike a defense at any time. The Ravens are never out of it with him, and that's worth a lot. 

 

Lamar can do nothing for 3 quarters then suddenly become unstoppable. He's a special and unique talent. 

Truth.

 

the play before the pick 6.  Ravens had a wide open target standing in the end zone.

 

I think Lamar just didn’t have the time because Hughes got in there.  Hughes takes .5 seconds longer to get there...it’s a tied game and who knows...

[billsrul120]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They are different QBs, for sure.

 

But, over the last 2 seasons, LJ has thrown for more TDs (62 vs 57), fewer INTs (15 vs 19), a higher completion % (65 vs 64) and a higher rating than Josh.  Plus the 2200 yards rushing...

 

LJ had a tougher year last season.  Will see what happens this year.

This is the last season you are going to be able to say this barring injury.

[billsrul120]

46 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

There is such a fine line between winning and losing in the playoffs. 

 

Browns, Colts and Ravens ALL could easily have advanced further last year, except for a few plays here and there that cost them. 

 

In that scenario, a wild card like Lamar can strike a defense at any time. The Ravens are never out of it with him, and that's worth a lot. 

 

Lamar can do nothing for 3 quarters then suddenly become unstoppable. He's a special and unique talent. 

I disagree with this.  They are out of the game if down a couple of scores.  They are built to keep to keep the game close but you saw in the playoffs last year and the games against the chiefs he can't pass effectively if needed to get the team back in the game. 

[The Wiz]

49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They are different QBs, for sure.

 

But, over the last 2 seasons, LJ has thrown for more TDs (62 vs 57), fewer INTs (15 vs 19), a higher completion % (65 vs 64) and a higher rating than Josh.  Plus the 2200 yards rushing...

 

LJ had a tougher year last season.  Will see what happens this year.

I understand your point with these numbers but they really don't tell the whole story.

 

Allen also had 256 more pass attempts than LJ as well as 1787 more passing yards over the two years so you would likely expect a lower completion % as well as more turnovers.  The fact that is was only a difference of 4 turnovers with 256 more pass attempts is pretty good.

 

Allen also has 900ish rushing yards in that time frame.  Not Lamar numbers but still decent for a QB.

 

Again, not taking away from LJ has done, he's a hell of an athlete but just think he's going to be a great runner playing QB until he develops his passing ability (similar to what Josh did over the last 3 years).

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I understand your point with these numbers but they really don't tell the whole story.

 

Allen also had 256 more pass attempts than LJ as well as 1787 more passing yards over the two years so you would likely expect a lower completion % as well as more turnovers.  The fact that is was only a difference of 4 turnovers with 256 more pass attempts is pretty good.

 

Allen also has 900ish rushing yards in that time frame.  Not Lamar numbers but still decent for a QB.

 

Again, not taking away from LJ has done, he's a hell of an athlete but just think he's going to be a great runner playing QB until he develops his passing ability (similar to what Josh did over the last 3 years).

He will never be able to develop his passing abilities to the extent like Josh

 

He just doesn't have the pure arm strength and precision outside the numbers

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He will never be able to develop his passing abilities to the extent like Josh

 

He just doesn't have the pure arm strength and precision outside the numbers

Agree about the arm strength.

 

As for precision, obviously allen is an anomaly but proves it can be done. 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Agree about the arm strength.

 

As for precision, obviously allen is an anomaly but proves it can be done. 

I was never in the boat that Allen had bad accuracy or precision 

 

What Allen struggled with was consistency do to bad lower body mechanics.. it was all out of whack because his lower body was not in sync with his upper body 

 

Even still , going back to his days at Wyoming. He was able to make big time NFL throws with precision, on the move or in the pocket

 

Especially throws outside the numbers. The hardest throws for quarterbacks to make.. and he made them look the easiest 

 

He actually struggled with more of the routine stuff because his mechanics were so out of whack.. but going back to Wyoming and even his first year with the bills.. he made plenty of throws outside the numbers, that a lot of quarterbacks in the league can't even make

 

That required serious precision and arm strength coupled together.. he just didn't have the consistency down yet

 

Which he's getting 

 

Throwing outside the numbers is the hardest thing for an NFL quarterback to do.. Allen has always been very good at it.. 

 

And that's always been the weakest part of Lamar's game going back to Louisville

Edited June 17, 2021 by Buffalo716

[without a drought]

He cheats at ping pong.

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, billsrul120 said:

This is the last season you are going to be able to say this barring injury.

 

 

ok

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I understand your point with these numbers but they really don't tell the whole story.

 

Allen also had 256 more pass attempts than LJ as well as 1787 more passing yards over the two years so you would likely expect a lower completion % as well as more turnovers.  The fact that is was only a difference of 4 turnovers with 256 more pass attempts is pretty good.

 

Allen also has 900ish rushing yards in that time frame.  Not Lamar numbers but still decent for a QB.

 

Again, not taking away from LJ has done, he's a hell of an athlete but just think he's going to be a great runner playing QB until he develops his passing ability (similar to what Josh did over the last 3 years).

 

Over the last 2 seasons, they had about the same YPA.  Almost the same accuracy.  The Ravens don't ask Jackson to pass as much, yet his TD % is better than Josh easily the past 2 years.  He scores a lot, both passing and running, even with fewer touches than Allen.  Dead last in yards and attempts, but threw more TDs than 19 other teams.

 

That's not exactly a star studded Offense in Baltimore--he's the leading passer and rusher.  No receiver with even 800 yards.  He's, essentially, the Offense.

 

The point obviously isn't to say that he's am passer on par with Allen.  It's to say these posts about him being a bad passer are not really convincing/accurate. 

[Dr.Sack]

Jackson is simply not best used as a drop back 30+ times a game passer and therefore there’s less action for WRs. 

[CorkScrewHill]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Josh, hands down.  Anyone would.

Agree that Josh has the better upside .. also agree that it is too early to say that Josh will be definitively better than Lamar. Maybe Lamar goes the RGIII route, but more likely he remains a scary quarterback (who wants to be better) in a really good organization that will keep him as protected as possible. Glad we have Josh but lamar deserves the accolades he has received.

[John from Riverside]

I frankly don’t even understand why fridge and wide receivers would even go there they’re not gonna put up the numbers in order to be able to get the second contract they want

[colin]

16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I was never in the boat that Allen had bad accuracy or precision 

 

What Allen struggled with was consistency do to bad lower body mechanics.. it was all out of whack because his lower body was not in sync with his upper body 

 

Even still , going back to his days at Wyoming. He was able to make big time NFL throws with precision, on the move or in the pocket

 

Especially throws outside the numbers. The hardest throws for quarterbacks to make.. and he made them look the easiest 

 

He actually struggled with more of the routine stuff because his mechanics were so out of whack.. but going back to Wyoming and even his first year with the bills.. he made plenty of throws outside the numbers, that a lot of quarterbacks in the league can't even make

 

That required serious precision and arm strength coupled together.. he just didn't have the consistency down yet

 

Which he's getting 

 

Throwing outside the numbers is the hardest thing for an NFL quarterback to do.. Allen has always been very good at it.. 

 

And that's always been the weakest part of Lamar's game going back to Louisville

 

 

ive been telling anyone who will listen, and most people who won't, that Josh is FavrElway.  the (sometimes massive) lapses in his game early was a function of him getting too amped and in many cases just not having his feet anywhere close to right.  even his two less than standard playoff games last season were a result of him being a touch too antsy at times, and that's with bad weather and banged up WRs.  in my life i've never seen a guy do things like stiff arm a DT and then deliver a bullet for a good gain like Josh allen.

[MJS]

People always figure out the iterations of Roman's scheme sooner or later and then things tighten up for them.

 

Since Jackson is such an athlete, it is taking longer for the NFL. But as soon as Roman has to mix in more passing, things start to crumble.

 

I predict that Roman will be fired in a couple years and they'll bring in someone who can develop the passing game.

[Putin]

On 3/25/2021 at 10:02 AM, Teddy KGB said:

Juju Smith Shuster turned down more money from the Ravens to stay in Pittsburgh.  
 

TY Hilton has also declined signing a huge multi year deal with the Ravens today.  
 

The media always placing Lamars failures on the wideouts seems to be scaring new targets away.  

Maybe Ravens should just use TE’s instead of WR’s ( problem solved? ) 

 

[billsrul120]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Over the last 2 seasons, they had about the same YPA.  Almost the same accuracy.  The Ravens don't ask Jackson to pass as much, yet his TD % is better than Josh easily the past 2 years.  He scores a lot, both passing and running, even with fewer touches than Allen.  Dead last in yards and attempts, but threw more TDs than 19 other teams.

 

That's not exactly a star studded Offense in Baltimore--he's the leading passer and rusher.  No receiver with even 800 yards.  He's, essentially, the Offense.

 

The point obviously isn't to say that he's am passer on par with Allen.  It's to say these posts about him being a bad passer are not really convincing/accurate. 

I think you are missing a huge point here which is that when a team is facing the Ravens that week, they are gearing up to stop the run.  Lamar is definitely a huge part of that run game.  I'm convinced he gets easier/simpler passing looks on a play to play basis as a result of their running game.  When they are in a game where he has to pass and the defense knows it, he gets in trouble.  He's not good enough at it.

 

For comparison, Allen went up against defenses all year who knew they had to stop the passing game and he was still able to have a ridiculous season.  That's good qb play.

[LeviF]

24 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I predict that Roman will be fired in a couple years and they'll bring in someone who can develop the passing game.

 

I'm in this camp as well, and that's when we'll find out who Lamar Jackson really is.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

I predict that Roman will be fired in a couple years and they'll bring in someone who can develop the passing game.

 

3 hours ago, LeviF said:

 

I'm in this camp as well, and that's when we'll find out who Lamar Jackson really is.

 

Isn't this like trying to develop Brady's run game?  Some things just aren't there.

[Putin]

17 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Jackson is simply not best used as a drop back 30+ times a game passer and therefore there’s less action for WRs. 

WTH is this 

[Thurman#1]

22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Over the last 2 seasons, they had about the same YPA.  Almost the same accuracy.  The Ravens don't ask Jackson to pass as much, yet his TD % is better than Josh easily the past 2 years.  He scores a lot, both passing and running, even with fewer touches than Allen.  Dead last in yards and attempts, but threw more TDs than 19 other teams.

 

That's not exactly a star studded Offense in Baltimore--he's the leading passer and rusher.  No receiver with even 800 yards.  He's, essentially, the Offense.

 

The point obviously isn't to say that he's am passer on par with Allen.  It's to say these posts about him being a bad passer are not really convincing/accurate. 

 

 

Not actually "bad." Yeah, probably fair.

 

But you can't compare the last two years together without pointing out that Allen has trended up a hell of a lot the last two years while Jackson started sensational and trended down a bit. And that's a huge difference.

 

Yeah, if you compare two years they look alike. But you shouldn't. Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen yet in 2019.

 

When it comes to talent Jackson has thrown to, it's worth pointing out also that John Brown looked pretty damn good with Josh. 

 

And in Baltimore he started boiling hot his first year there. In the first nine games he puts up 601 yards and 4 TDs. Then they pull Flacco and put in Lamar, and the rest of the year, in seven games with Lamar throwing to him he manages 114 yards and 1 TD. 

 

Maybe some of the reason the Baltimore receivers haven't looked good is that Lamar is doing the throwing. Not all, but some.

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, billsrul120 said:

I think you are missing a huge point here which is that when a team is facing the Ravens that week, they are gearing up to stop the run.  Lamar is definitely a huge part of that run game.  I'm convinced he gets easier/simpler passing looks on a play to play basis as a result of their running game.  When they are in a game where he has to pass and the defense knows it, he gets in trouble.  He's not good enough at it.

 

For comparison, Allen went up against defenses all year who knew they had to stop the passing game and he was still able to have a ridiculous season.  That's good qb play.

I agree 💯 with the first paragraph.  Well stated.

 

the 2nd paragraph…..it isn’t incorrect, but deceiving imo.  Allen went up against defenses all year that knew they had to stop the pass and he had a ridiculous season.  In 2019, every team knew they had to stop the ravens run, yet Lamar won mvp.  In 2020. Everyone knew they had to stop lamars run game yet he still ran for 1000+ yards and the ravens finished 11-4 when he started. The chiefs played the Bills like we played the ravens.  Selling out to stop the opponents best method of offense.  Both qbs seasons ended because their offenses were too one dimensional to overcome good defensive game plans.  Neither offensive coaching staff was up to the challenge

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Not actually "bad." Yeah, probably fair.

 

But you can't compare the last two years together without pointing out that Allen has trended up a hell of a lot the last two years while Jackson started sensational and trended down a bit. And that's a huge difference.

 

Yeah, if you compare two years they look alike. But you shouldn't. Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen yet in 2019.

 

When it comes to talent Jackson has thrown to, it's worth pointing out also that John Brown looked pretty damn good with Josh. 

 

And in Baltimore he started boiling hot his first year there. In the first nine games he puts up 601 yards and 4 TDs. Then they pull Flacco and put in Lamar, and the rest of the year, in seven games with Lamar throwing to him he manages 114 yards and 1 TD. 

 

Maybe some of the reason the Baltimore receivers haven't looked good is that Lamar is doing the throwing. Not all, but some.

 

 

I covered that.

 

Numbers show that LJ is not as inaccurate/bad/whatever passer he is being portrayed by many here as.  That's what I'm saying.  And Josh got a lot better when he got better receivers in 2020 (sorry, Brown's barely surpassing 1000 yards in 2019 despite being the WR1 and getting targeted 115 times isn't really "damn good", but he was what they had...).

 

 

 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

I’m just curious how much the ravens will have to pay for LJ and how his contract will compare to JA17s.