Is Russell Wilson The Next QB To Be On The Move - Tensions Seem To Be Growing

[H2o]

There have been a few reports about how the Seahawks almost traded Wilson in 2018, with the pick supposedly going to be Josh Allen. Now you have multiple reports about Wilson being frustrated over not being involved in personnel decisions. These stories are starting to gain some steam after Russell Wilson's interview the other day. There is also talk of how he is a bit frustrated with how Pete Carroll wants the offense structured. Is this another relationship headed in a direction beyond possible repair? Below you will find a couple of links with quoted excerpts. You will need to read the full stories to get the complete context, but Russ sounds like he may be looking to chef it up somewhere else imo. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30868595/russell-wilson-frustrated-getting-hit-too-much-wants-more-say-seattle-seahawks-moves

Quote

"And I think that the reality of professional sports is things happen, things change. I'm not sure how long I'll play in Seattle. I think, hopefully, it can be forever. But things change, obviously, along the way. I think you focus on what you can control every day and try to be the best version of yourself and ultimately try to win championships. I think that's why I play this game."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/09/brandon-marshall-says-russell-wilson-is-beyond-frustrated-with-seahawks/

Quote

“Russell Wilson is beyond frustrated. I think Russell Wilson is trying to figure out how to move on in a classy way. That’s what I truly believe.,” Marshall said. “… He’s trying to leave the legacy that he did things the right way so other guys can follow that same blueprint. So I think he struggles with how to move on in a classy way, in a way where people can look at him and say you know what, he still did it the right way. Because that’s important for Russ.”

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by H2o

[Mr. WEO]

How many SB contender caliber teams right now are looking for a Franchise QB?  

 

Which of them are better (roster) than, say, Seattle or Green Bay?

[Sundancer]

He's not going anywhere. But he did get smashed a lot this year. 

[Rc2catch]

I don’t know, I think given Carroll’s age they’d just fire him if it really came down to it. 
In this scenario I can see Wilson having more flex in the organization. 
I can’t see any scenario where he is actually moved but I’ve been shocked before. 
 

[Beerball]

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

There have been a few reports about how the Seahawks almost traded Wilson in 2018, with the pick supposedly going to be Josh Allen. Now you have multiple reports about Wilson being frustrated over not being involved in personnel decisions. These stories are starting to gain some steam after Russell Wilson's interview the other day. There is also talk of how he is a bit frustrated with how Pete Carroll wants the offense structured. Is this another relationship headed in a direction beyond possible repair? Below you will find a couple of links with quoted excerpts. You will need to read the full stories to get the complete context, but Russ sounds like he may be looking to chef it up somewhere else imo. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30868595/russell-wilson-frustrated-getting-hit-too-much-wants-more-say-seattle-seahawks-moves

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/09/brandon-marshall-says-russell-wilson-is-beyond-frustrated-with-seahawks/

 

no

[Patrick Duffy]

Lol, I'm gona go with no. No chance. Not anytime soon anyways.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

There have been a few reports about how the Seahawks almost traded Wilson in 2018, with the pick supposedly going to be Josh Allen. Now you have multiple reports about Wilson being frustrated over not being involved in personnel decisions. These stories are starting to gain some steam after Russell Wilson's interview the other day. There is also talk of how he is a bit frustrated with how Pete Carroll wants the offense structured. Is this another relationship headed in a direction beyond possible repair? Below you will find a couple of links with quoted excerpts. You will need to read the full stories to get the complete context, but Russ sounds like he may be looking to chef it up somewhere else imo. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30868595/russell-wilson-frustrated-getting-hit-too-much-wants-more-say-seattle-seahawks-moves

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/09/brandon-marshall-says-russell-wilson-is-beyond-frustrated-with-seahawks/

 

 

What does a player contract mean? 

 

Trading a player under contract is usually disadvantageous to the trading team if there is a generous signing bonus the team has to eat.  The more recent the signing, the more disadvantageous.

 

Seems to me that if teams start letting key players under contract force trades whenever they have a difference of opinion, contracts will start having little meaning to  teams.

 

The owners gotta see this.

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

How many SB contender caliber teams right now are looking for a Franchise QB?  

 

Which of them are better (roster) than, say, Seattle or Green Bay?

San Francisco (won’t happen for obvious reasons) 

 

Indianapolis

 

New Orleans (Cap space will make it nearly impossible) 

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What does a player contract mean? 

 

Trading a player under contract is usually disadvantageous to the trading team if there is a generous signing bonus the team has to eat.  The more recent the signing, the more disadvantageous.

 

Seems to me that if teams start letting key players under contract force trades whenever they have a difference of opinion, contracts will start having little meaning to  teams.

 

The owners gotta see this.

I agree. It's almost starting to feel NBA-esque to me as this has been going on in that league for years now. The problem is if you give an inch they take a mile and the players are starting to act as if they are the CEO instead of an employee. 

[machine gun kelly]

H2O, one thing I like is you try and provide thoughtful threads, so thank you.  You also don’t just say what if, what if that?

 

ive read and heard the same from a variety of sources.  I don’t know how real these points are as it is a stretch to see Wilson, a franchise guy who you’d assume there is some serious deadcap $ with him.

 

He might be just wrangling or his agent to have more input on strategy.  I just don’t know as it’s not normal like the GB thing with Rodgers to think he’s going anywhere.  You might be onto something, but again thanks for the thread.  Definitely worth hearing discussions.  The other part is in a Covid cap world this year, that’s a big swallow for his contract.  I think it’s around $35 mil. Per year.

[JoPoy88]

22 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

He's not going anywhere. But he did get smashed a lot this year. 

More like the past 3-4 years actually.

[First Round Bust]

the NFL Man of Year and face of the franchise on the move ?  not likely, more like off-season fodder being recycled ? 

 

More interested in the Watson-Hou issue which s on the front burner...signed the big extension less than a year ago with a NTC clause, now wants out cuz he wanted input-status of the front office hirings, and based on what went down with Obrien trading Hopkins and picks galore...so the team is within its legal rights to ignore the request, but ultimately will Watson play hardball and skip OTAs/virtual meetings/workouts...becoming a big players league like the NBA ?

[BuffaloRebound]

Looking at his contract, he got paid $50m+ in cash in 2020.  He’s only slated to make $19m in cash in 2021.  I know, poor him but  that’s a really poorly constructed contract from the standpoint of incentivizing the player.  Instead of a $65m signing bonus split over the first 2 years, put in guaranteed roster bonuses that spread what is paid to the player more evenly each year.  Human nature for a guy like Wilson to say I’m not getting my head beat in for $19m, which is fringe starter money for a QB.  

[716er]

35 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

He's not going anywhere. But he did get smashed a lot this year. 

 

I think this is Russel's way of telling the team protecting him needs to be their top priority. 

[berg1029]

I don't understand how Wilson and by extension Watson can be frustrated with not being let in on decisions that are made above their head.  They aren't the ones running the franchise, it's not their money on the line.  What qualifies them to have their input heard over the other players on the team and other personnel people that have an expertise in this sort of thing?  Since they aren't necessarily qualified to be making these decisions and aren't financing things, why should they get a say?  To me, it just seems that being unhappy about this sort of thing is really egotistical

[aristocrat]

gonna be tough to find o lineman when they traded so much for Adams.  But they better

[Punching Bag]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Looking at his contract, he got paid $50m+ in cash in 2020.  He’s only slated to make $19m in cash in 2021.  I know, poor him but  that’s a really poorly constructed contract from the standpoint of incentivizing the player.  Instead of a $65m signing bonus split over the first 2 years, put in guaranteed roster bonuses that spread what is paid to the player more evenly each year.  Human nature for a guy like Wilson to say I’m not getting my head beat in for $19m, which is fringe starter money for a QB.  

 

That is exactly issue.  Players are trying to have their signing bonus and eat it too.  

 

And more the teams move money to front, more the players who attempt to take the money and run.

 

Barry Sanders did it with a 6 year extension with large bonus for the time and then retired soon after.

Then each year he would say "maybe I would unretire" and if any year Lions did not have the money to sign he could have unretired, Lions not have cap space and be forced to trade him or let him go.

[Alphadawg7]

I think they will figure it out and get on the same page.  I really doubt they move Wilson and don’t see this situation as strained as the one Watson and Houston have.  

[BuffaloRebound]

21 minutes ago, berg1029 said:

I don't understand how Wilson and by extension Watson can be frustrated with not being let in on decisions that are made above their head.  They aren't the ones running the franchise, it's not their money on the line.  What qualifies them to have their input heard over the other players on the team and other personnel people that have an expertise in this sort of thing?  Since they aren't necessarily qualified to be making these decisions and aren't financing things, why should they get a say?  To me, it just seems that being unhappy about this sort of thing is really egotistical

I don’t look at as egotistical, more like leverage.  Like it or not it’s a QB driven league so they’re the ones who have it. And if he has issues with taking too many hits and doesn’t feel like he’s being listened to, they’ll surely be listening now.  

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

He's not going anywhere. But he did get smashed a lot this year. 

 

He gets smashed a lot every year.  He was sacked 146 times the last 3 years and led the NFL with 51 in 2018. He has been sacked 394 times in 144 games, nearly 3 per game.  Wilson and Deshaun Watson are 2 of the most sacked QBs in NFL history going by sack percentage. Watson is at 9.05% and Wilson is at 8.33%

[DrDawkinstein]

29 minutes ago, berg1029 said:

I don't understand how Wilson and by extension Watson can be frustrated with not being let in on decisions that are made above their head.  They aren't the ones running the franchise, it's not their money on the line.  What qualifies them to have their input heard over the other players on the team and other personnel people that have an expertise in this sort of thing?  Since they aren't necessarily qualified to be making these decisions and aren't financing things, why should they get a say?  To me, it just seems that being unhappy about this sort of thing is really egotistical

 

When an employee is:

• making 20-25% of the entire payroll
• higher paid than the Head Coach and GM (combined in some cases)
• the face of the franchise
• the largest contributor to the success of the team, touching the ball every offensive play

Why shouldnt they get a say? Are they really not running the franchise at all when they are so responsible for the team's on-field performance?

[ProcessAccepted]

39 minutes ago, berg1029 said:

I don't understand how Wilson and by extension Watson can be frustrated with not being let in on decisions that are made above their head.  They aren't the ones running the franchise, it's not their money on the line.  What qualifies them to have their input heard over the other players on the team and other personnel people that have an expertise in this sort of thing?  Since they aren't necessarily qualified to be making these decisions and aren't financing things, why should they get a say?  To me, it just seems that being unhappy about this sort of thing is really egotistical

Watson is in a poorly run organization. He has not said a word of complaint until this year when a promise that clearly was important to him was broken. Watson can earn the same amount or more in a different organization that he trusts. The fact that the Texans aren't trading him just shows that his value to the team.

 

 

[H2o]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

When an employee is:

• making 20-25% of the entire payroll
• higher paid than the Head Coach and GM (combined in some cases)
• the face of the franchise
• the largest contributor to the success of the team, touching the ball every offensive play

Why shouldnt they get a say? Are they really not running the franchise at all when they are so responsible for the team's on-field performance?

I understand what you are saying, but at what point do you draw the line in the sand? Does the organization need to seek out their approval at every turn or over every decision? This is where the problem lies imo. You give them an inch and they will take a mile. A player has the right to sign or refuse a contract. They can get to the end of one and, if they are a high enough caliber player, position themselves to go wherever they choose. Kirk Cousins did that, not that I think Kirk is anywhere near the level of player as the aforementioned. Both Watson and Wilson signed contracts for big $$$. Now they are frustrated with their respective organizations. There are GM's, scouts, coaches, and other personnel within an organization who are in charge of building the team you sign a contract to play for. I understand the wanting to have a say, but players are players, coaches are coaches, and FO is the FO. Yes they can speak their mind, but you can't cater to one person putting on the uniform for the sake of coddling. You start letting people veer out of their lanes or have people overstepping their bounds into other areas because that person feels they know best then it's almost a certain recipe for disaster. That's just my 2. 

[Southern Bills Fan]

He could always restructure for less money so they could sign better O-linemen. ( I bet he doesn't). 

[zow2]

Talented QB's like Russ are seeing the way stars like Brady and Lebron are orchestrating player signings and want to get in on some of that star power clout action. They want a voice too. 

It doesn't work like that in the NFL but players are gonna try.  Brady is an exception.  He's earned the right.  And he's also taken team friendly wages too.  Doesn't hurt that his spouse is worth like $300million at least.... a little bit easier to take less if it helps build a winning team.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

When an employee is:

• making 20-25% of the entire payroll
• higher paid than the Head Coach and GM (combined in some cases)
• the face of the franchise
• the largest contributor to the success of the team, touching the ball every offensive play

Why shouldnt they get a say? Are they really not running the franchise at all when they are so responsible for the team's on-field performance?

Agree with this. The counter for management is to have a good working relationship with such a franchise QB that they don't go public with requests (as Wilson may or may not be doing here) or go all the way to total trust meltdown (i.e. Watson-Houston). 

An alternative approach is build a championship caliber team based on defense and the run game with an offense constructed such that a mid-tier (and hence, replaceable) QB can be effective, hence the QB doesn't fit the description of an employee with high leverage. This is a lot more work than the "build around a franchise QB" approach but it's an option nonetheless. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I agree. It's almost starting to feel NBA-esque to me as this has been going on in that league for years now. The problem is if you give an inch they take a mile and the players are starting to act as if they are the CEO instead of an employee. 

Wilson is the CEO of Seahawks.  Have you ever seen some of the offensive talent around him? He carries that offense. 
 

players get used and abused until the team discards them when they are no longer valuable. You’d be an idiot in any walk of life not to take advantage of your leverage. Guys like Wilson, Watson, and Stafford have leverage because they are really good at the most important position in sports. It’s stupid not to take advantage of it.

 

I seriously doubt he is getting traded but they have consistently surrounded him with below average talent. Guys like Wilson and Rodgers have made their receivers and not the other way around. 

29 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

When an employee is:

• making 20-25% of the entire payroll
• higher paid than the Head Coach and GM (combined in some cases)
• the face of the franchise
• the largest contributor to the success of the team, touching the ball every offensive play

Why shouldnt they get a say? Are they really not running the franchise at all when they are so responsible for the team's on-field performance?

They should just yes sir snd thank you for paying me. Go billionaires!

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Wilson is the CEO of Seahawks.  Have you ever seen some of the offensive talent around him? He carries that offense. 
 

players get used and abused until the team discards them when they are no longer valuable. You’d be an idiot in any walk of life not to take advantage of your leverage. Guys like Wilson, Watson, and Stafford have leverage because they are really good at the most important position in sports. It’s stupid not to take advantage of it.

 

I seriously doubt he is getting traded but they have consistently surrounded him with below average talent. Guys like Wilson and Rodgers have made their receivers and not the other way around. 

They should just yes sir snd thank you for paying me. Go billionaires!

 

Splitting hairs here, and we are in agreement, but I'd call the Head Coach the CEO, and the QB the President. But love the analogy.

[C.Biscuit97]

18 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

He could always restructure for less money so they could sign better O-linemen. ( I bet he doesn't). 

So he should lose money because the front office sucks on offensive personnel moves?

 

if you were essentially the main reason the business was successful and made a ton of money, you won’t want a say jn matters? 

[LittleSammy]

It was interesting to see the comment on ProFootballtalk that Seattle considered a trade of Wilson for Cleveland's #1 in 2018 with the idea of then selecting Josh Allen. Not sure how serious Seattle really was? All I know is I couldn't stomach Baker Mayfield or Josh Rosen as our QB.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/07/report-seattle-has-received-calls-about-a-possible-russell-wilson-trade/

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What does a player contract mean? 

 

Trading a player under contract is usually disadvantageous to the trading team if there is a generous signing bonus the team has to eat.  The more recent the signing, the more disadvantageous.

 

Seems to me that if teams start letting key players under contract force trades whenever they have a difference of opinion, contracts will start having little meaning to  teams.

 

The owners gotta see this.

And the players see that their contracts can get torn up in a random Tuesday in April.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

37 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

He could always restructure for less money so they could sign better O-linemen. ( I bet he doesn't). 

 

Yes restructure and move cost to future in which player sits out.  Does that make any sense for a front office? 

11 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

And the players see that their contracts can get torn up in a random Tuesday in April.

 

Yes because it was agreed to by their reps in NFLPA.  Of course their word means nothing for they try to get in court what they cannot get on bargaining table.  No way would NFL agree to players getting large signing bonuses and being able to sit out or retire and keep the money.  The NFL should look at RICO act. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

And the players see that their contracts can get torn up in a random Tuesday in April.

 

Yes and no.... if the contracts involve a signing bonus, or guaranteed money, that money is still owed by the team if the player is released.  That doesn't get torn up.

 

Which is why those details matter a lot to the players.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

I'll use John Elway as an example here.

 

When he was coming into the league, he saw he was about to be drafted into a poorly managed franchise, and played what little cards he had to try to control his destiny. Even though it was well established that rookies "go where they are drafted" and should never question it, and just be happy they are getting a chance in the league.

 

And now he's actually a President running a franchise.

 

So when folks up-thread ask why these guys think they are qualified to participate in decision making, there you go.

 

[Punching Bag]

There once was a 5th round QB who was passed by many teams but thru the right combination of acting lessons, cheating, spying and having referees give him calls he became a Superbowl MVP even though he did not deserve.  

 

So when folks up-thread think all QBs have same influence it is not true.

[DaggersEOD]

41 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So he should lose money because the front office sucks on offensive personnel moves?

 

if you were essentially the main reason the business was successful and made a ton of money, you won’t want a say jn matters? 

True but with a large contract, he may also be setting the ceiling. 
 

More available cap = more $$ for rounding out the rest of the team. 
 

There are no perfect answers IMO

[spartacus]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I understand what you are saying, but at what point do you draw the line in the sand? Does the organization need to seek out their approval at every turn or over every decision? This is where the problem lies imo. You give them an inch and they will take a mile. A player has the right to sign or refuse a contract. They can get to the end of one and, if they are a high enough caliber player, position themselves to go wherever they choose. Kirk Cousins did that, not that I think Kirk is anywhere near the level of player as the aforementioned. Both Watson and Wilson signed contracts for big $$$. Now they are frustrated with their respective organizations. There are GM's, scouts, coaches, and other personnel within an organization who are in charge of building the team you sign a contract to play for. I understand the wanting to have a say, but players are players, coaches are coaches, and FO is the FO. Yes they can speak their mind, but you can't cater to one person putting on the uniform for the sake of coddling. You start letting people veer out of their lanes or have people overstepping their bounds into other areas because that person feels they know best then it's almost a certain recipe for disaster. That's just my 2. 

if "input"  was so important to these guys, they should have negotiated the scope of the role and these additional features into their newly signed, big money contracts.

 

right next to the language that would forfeit large chunks of money for "bad input" 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Sundancer said:

He's not going anywhere. But he did get smashed a lot this year. 

I agree;  I think Seattle is in need of a timeout and a re-think as to what and how they are doing things, but the new plan is going to include Russell Wilson!  Although at 32 he's not as young as he once was.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t know, I think given Carroll’s age they’d just fire him if it really came down to it. 
In this scenario I can see Wilson having more flex in the organization. 
I can’t see any scenario where he is actually moved but I’ve been shocked before. 
 

If the reports are true I bet they'd trade him in a heartbeat for the #1 pick this year and either some players or draft capital.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

San Francisco (won’t happen for obvious reasons) 

 

Indianapolis

 

New Orleans (Cap space will make it nearly impossible) 

 

Wilson has one of the best WR combos in the NFL.   Carson was going 4.8 YPC and 5 TDs but missed 4 games.

 

Rodgers has a top WR and RB (plus Williams added another 500 yards), plus M V-S and stud young TE Tonyan.

 

 

SF has a lot of RBs, not a lot of rushing yards.  Decent young WRs. Kittle.  Defense that gives up more points than the Seahawks (huge drop-off from last year).

 

Colts have Taylor (rest of RBs negligible) and 1 WR over 700 yards.  Mediocre at best TEs.  Good O-line.  

 

NO has Thomas coming off of injury, Kamara, aging Sanders and Josh Hill (not a good TE room over there), solid D.

 

NO is the only team I see that either of these guys walk onto and go farther than they did with their current teams this past season.  Cap issues make it a non-starter, as you point out.