ESPN way too early power rankings

[Royale with Cheese]

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30834323/early-nfl-power-rankings-2021-where-do-super-bowl-champion-bucs-chiefs-rank

 

2. Buffalo Bills

2020 record: 13-3

Offseason in three or fewer words: We'll be back

They were perhaps the three words uttered most often by Bills players and staff following a loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship Game. Buffalo is equipped to make another run in the AFC but will require some tweaks to do so. The Bills will need to hit in this year's draft as they do gymnastics with a diminishing salary cap. But with so many core players either on rookie deals or already locked in, they are built to make another run to the AFC title game. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques

[Buffalo Boy]

    I think they need to blow up the defensive line and stock it with younger, bigger, nastier talent. 
    In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought ( including me). I’m not faulting Beane as I agreed with not paying them the money they got but their production was missed.

    I guess it depends on your point of view but I’m in the “ Your DBs look better with a good four man rush” camp. 
    I know it might appear risky but the Ends we have aren’t getting it done and I’m not holding out tremendous hope for Epenesa. He seems like a rotation guy/ I hope I’m wrong.

    That and O line help.

[Stank_Nasty]

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I think they need to blow up the defensive line and stock it with younger, bigger, nastier talent. 
    In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought ( including me). I’m not faulting Beane as I agreed with not paying them the money they got but their production was missed.

    I guess it depends on your point of view but I’m in the “ Your DBs look better with a good four man rush” camp. 
    I know it might appear risky but the Ends we have aren’t getting it done and I’m not holding out tremendous hope for Epenesa. He seems like a rotation guy/ I hope I’m wrong.

    That and O line help.

 

I don't think Lawson or Phillips would have made a difference.  They both didn't produce with the Dolphins and Cards.  

[klos63]

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

[Coffeesforclosers]

The word after the game was that Vita Vea ripping up KCs offensive interior let their MLBs "see everything".  DT play has to improve, and for god sake stop wasting Ed Oliver at zero or 1 technique and get a real nose.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Coffeesforclosers

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

 

Oh yeah...offensive line will be much different.  

 

Dion Dawkins is the only guaranteed returning starter on the offensive line.

 

We may lose Williams to FA, Morse could get cut, Boettger's status is up in the air and I'm not sure if a healthy Ford is guaranteed a starting spot....I think Feliciano moves to center.  
 

Could have new starters at every position left tackle.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I think they need to blow up the defensive line and stock it with younger, bigger, nastier talent. 
    In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought ( including me). I’m not faulting Beane as I agreed with not paying them the money they got but their production was missed.

    I guess it depends on your point of view but I’m in the “ Your DBs look better with a good four man rush” camp. 
    I know it might appear risky but the Ends we have aren’t getting it done and I’m not holding out tremendous hope for Epenesa. He seems like a rotation guy/ I hope I’m wrong.

    That and O line help.

Agree that we should cut the guys we signed last year.  Keep Jerry, Ed, Harrison, Star, Aj, johnson and Zimmer.  Get rid of Jefferson, butler and Addison.  
 

I disagree about phillips and Shaq.  Both were next to useless this year and both the cards and fins are regretting that they can’t get out of either contract this offseason.  
 

While I haven’t dug deep into scouting pass rushers yet, Patrick Jones, from Pittsburgh has really impressive me so far.  6’5 260 and can get to the QB with multiple moves. If he’s there at 30, I could see us pulling the trigger

 

[DCOrange]

Honestly, this seems kinda disrespectful to Tampa.

[17islongenough]

Maybe Star is actually more important than everyone gives him credit for

[Buffalo_Stampede]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I think they need to blow up the defensive line and stock it with younger, bigger, nastier talent. 
    In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought ( including me). I’m not faulting Beane as I agreed with not paying them the money they got but their production was missed.

    I guess it depends on your point of view but I’m in the “ Your DBs look better with a good four man rush” camp. 
    I know it might appear risky but the Ends we have aren’t getting it done and I’m not holding out tremendous hope for Epenesa. He seems like a rotation guy/ I hope I’m wrong.

    That and O line help.

The defense actually improved a lot throughout the year. They do need a younger pass rusher to step up. They don't have to rip anything up, but an upgrade to Murphy and Williams is needed. Right now Hughes, Addison, and Epenesa are locks. Need to add a good pass rusher to complete the rotation. 

 

At DT one of Butler/Jefferson will likely be released for cap reasons and the return of Star. Could possibly replace both but I don't think they will. 

 

I think DL should be addressed via free agency. We've drafted DL very high recently. Let them continue to develop. 

 

At CB they will likely look to add a legit #2 CB. It may be time to spend a quality draft pick on a CB again. 1st or 2nd round. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

57 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30834323/early-nfl-power-rankings-2021-where-do-super-bowl-champion-bucs-chiefs-rank

 

2. Buffalo Bills

2020 record: 13-3

Offseason in three or fewer words: We'll be back

They were perhaps the three words uttered most often by Bills players and staff following a loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship Game. Buffalo is equipped to make another run in the AFC but will require some tweaks to do so. The Bills will need to hit in this year's draft as they do gymnastics with a diminishing salary cap. But with so many core players either on rookie deals or already locked in, they are built to make another run to the AFC title game. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques

 

Wait a sec. I read on here that the Bills are like 15 players away from being competitive. Don't they need a new defensive line, new LB core, three new interior o-linemen, a big bruising RB, and a very  speedy RB to be competitive? We are still 3, maybe 4, years away! 

[Captain Hindsight]

36 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

Hence the "way too early" part

[The Jokeman]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think Lawson or Phillips would have made a difference.  They both didn't produce with the Dolphins and Cards.  

To be fair Phillips got hurt and think he a better player than Butler yet neither one, despite their size, is the one tech DT we lacked. 

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I think they need to blow up the defensive line and stock it with younger, bigger, nastier talent. 
    In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought ( including me). I’m not faulting Beane as I agreed with not paying them the money they got but their production was missed.

    I guess it depends on your point of view but I’m in the “ Your DBs look better with a good four man rush” camp. 
    I know it might appear risky but the Ends we have aren’t getting it done and I’m not holding out tremendous hope for Epenesa. He seems like a rotation guy/ I hope I’m wrong.

    That and O line help.

Not paying them was the right move but their replacements were horrible. Get young hungry players on the front 7.....

[Buffalo_Stampede]

44 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

Lol. So make the AFC Championship game and not have serious cap issues but make significant changes to most of the roster? 

 

No. We'll see 2-3 significant changes but TE is really the only significant change we can expect. Everything else will be based on cap and opportunity to upgrade. 

 

I think CB opposite White is the next most likely change. Beyond that I don't know. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I think they need to blow up the defensive line and stock it with younger, bigger, nastier talent. 
    In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought ( including me). I’m not faulting Beane as I agreed with not paying them the money they got but their production was missed.

    I guess it depends on your point of view but I’m in the “ Your DBs look better with a good four man rush” camp. 
    I know it might appear risky but the Ends we have aren’t getting it done and I’m not holding out tremendous hope for Epenesa. He seems like a rotation guy/ I hope I’m wrong.

    That and O line help.

 

 The guys we replaced them with out-performed those guys.  Addison--who had a bit of a down here-- still had more sacks than Shaq. And if you combine his production with AJ Epenesa's--who came on well as the season progressed--the move to let Shaq go made a lot of sense.  Phillips was banged up a lot this year in Arizona. 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

51 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think Lawson or Phillips would have made a difference.  They both didn't produce with the Dolphins and Cards.  

100%. I've seen a decent amount of posters on here missing Jordan Phillips, but why? I liked the guy for hyping up the defense and he was good value given that we picked him up for nothing, but he was an atrocious run defender and the All-22 tape showed that most of his sacks were either coverage ones or with a huge assist from our other d-linemen (the stats looked great, but didn't match up with what we saw on the field). He wasn't worth the contract he got from Arizona and he would not have done much if anything to fix our defensive problems this season. 

 

I view Shaq as a much better player especially as a run defender and we likely could have used him on the edge at times. But again his stats before with the Bills and this year with Miami didn't match the contract he signed. I think he has hit his ceiling and he's just a slightly above-average edge setter who can give you 5 sacks per season. 

 

With Star coming back, Ed Oliver hitting Year 3 (a lot of other Bills have taken huge leaps in their third season!) and hopefully not being misused as a 1T anymore, Horrible Harry back to 100%/playing well at the end of 2020, and some more development expected from Epenesa, the defensive line shouldn't be in terrible shape. I'd probably like to see us cut Addison/Butler/Jefferson and use the cap savings to hopefully do a better job of bringing in some FA talent as well as drafting a couple guys even if it's on Day 2/3. More beef in the middle and more speed on the edge please! Go Bills!

[thurst44]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Not paying them was the right move but their replacements were horrible. Get young hungry players on the front 7.....

McDermott had a pretty solid point at his first post-season press conference that they did not get to play together in pre-season or regular passes (Allen and Diggs vibing was the exception to the rule). However, their contracts are also the easiest to walk away from. Rewatching games, Mario Addison appeared to me to still have an impact and was a key part of the mental make-up of the team, so I hope they restructure him. Quinton Jefferson, I just did not notice, practically at all. Vernon Butler can go. I'm also hoping Justin Zimmer can get more snaps next year as there's a slight chance he might be something special. Star's absence would seem to have been noticed since we were the top team against tight ends his two years and just lousy before and after, so I look forward to him coming back. Epenesa seemed to be coming on at the end, so I'm excited to see what he can do. Ed Oliver, as many have said here, would likely benefit from having a huge player in the center, and hopefully that's Star and he gets back on track towards earning his Top Ten pick status.

 

So, we may not need a whole rebuild. However, one or two new players through draft or FA would be good. And that might necessitate a lot of contract ultimatums with the current players. 

[ExWNYer]

55 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

 

The same can be said for mock drafts. Neither are necessarily meant to be 'sensible' but are more an exercise in speculation and fun to pass the time and fill a void.

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

Thats why they literally say in the article its the "way too early" power rankings.... its just content to pass time. no harm in it.

[DCOrange]

57 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Not paying them was the right move but their replacements were horrible. Get young hungry players on the front 7.....

This is really it. I don't think the replacements were necessarily horrible but they definitely did not pan out the way Beane had hoped. But moving on from Shaq and Phillips were absolutely the right calls IMO.

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30834323/early-nfl-power-rankings-2021-where-do-super-bowl-champion-bucs-chiefs-rank

 

2. Buffalo Bills

2020 record: 13-3

Offseason in three or fewer words: We'll be back

They were perhaps the three words uttered most often by Bills players and staff following a loss to the Chiefs in the AFC Championship Game. Buffalo is equipped to make another run in the AFC but will require some tweaks to do so. The Bills will need to hit in this year's draft as they do gymnastics with a diminishing salary cap. But with so many core players either on rookie deals or already locked in, they are built to make another run to the AFC title game. -- Marcel Louis-Jacques

 

I feel like Marcel is a closet Bills fan!   Guy has great analysis.  Perhaps he is just one of the few national guys who pays attention to the Bills.  At any rate, agree with this.  Although hard to justify having Tampa below us.  

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

The word after the game was that Vita Vea ripping up KCs offensive interior let their MLBs "see everything".  DT play has to improve, and for god sake stop wasting Ed Oliver at zero or 1 technique and get a real nose.

 

totally agree.  Get a DT in FA, another one in the draft, Star is back, move Edmunds to outside LB, draft inside LB.  

[RobbRiddick]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Agree that we should cut the guys we signed last year.  Keep Jerry, Ed, Harrison, Star, Aj, johnson and Zimmer.  Get rid of Jefferson, butler and Addison.  
 

I disagree about phillips and Shaq.  Both were next to useless this year and both the cards and fins are regretting that they can’t get out of either contract this offseason.  
 

While I haven’t dug deep into scouting pass rushers yet, Patrick Jones, from Pittsburgh has really impressive me so far.  6’5 260 and can get to the QB with multiple moves. If he’s there at 30, I could see us pulling the trigger

 

 

I don't follow college ball so have no idea who we should go after. But I did research a few edge rushers and really took a liking to Joseph Ossai from Texas.

 

Be interested to hear what the college experts think about him and whether he would fit our scheme or even be there when we pick (I've seen mocks where he is and some where he's long gone)

[Victory Formation]

This offseason is paramount as far as how far we’ll go next year, especially in terms of the draft. Very little cap flexibility, must draft very well throughout the entire draft. Need to strike gold on our mid round and late round picks. OL, DL, TE seem to be our biggest needs.. May have enough cap for a few second tier free agents, but that’s about it.

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

I don't follow college ball so have no idea who we should go after. But I did research a few edge rushers and really took a liking to Joseph Ossai from Texas.

 

Be interested to hear what the college experts think about him and whether he would fit our scheme or even be there when we pick (I've seen mocks where he is and some where he's long gone)

Haven’t watched Ossai’s tape yet, I’ll probably dive into some today!  While there doesn’t seem to be any top tier pass rushers in this draft, there does seem to be some talented players that may be there at 30.  That’s all we can ask for! 
 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Honestly, this seems kinda disrespectful to Tampa.

You think?

They beat GB twice. They dominated not just the Super Bowl vs KC, but also the second half of that regular season game. They crushed the team that had just crushed the Bills. They ended the season as clearly the best team in football, and it wasn’t even close. Everyone important seems to be coming back. And they are 4th, behind KC, us, and GB?

Was this written before the Super Bowl?

Edited February 9, 2021 by The Frankish Reich

[Mountain Man]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

  In hindsight, letting J.Phillips and S. Lawson walk was a bigger loss than many thought 

I don't really think it was. Neither have been great since they left

[chongli]

2 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 for god sake stop wasting Ed Oliver at zero or 1 technique and get a real nose.

 

Why does McD insist on playing guys out of position like Oliver above, and Edmunds, whom most agree should be moved to the outside?? Ugh.

[The Frankish Reich]

28 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Why does McD insist on playing guys out of position like Oliver above, and Edmunds, whom most agree should be moved to the outside?? Ugh.

McD is a fine coach. But he’s still a young coach, and he’s still in the mode

of “the defense we built in Carolina is the model for a successful NFL defense.”

Luke Kuechly was a dominant playmaking MLB there, so he’s focused on taking the raw talent of Edmunds and shaping him into the same type of player. 
Star was the middle of the line wall, so bring him in here. 
That allowed Kawann Short to be a playmaker next to Star (11 sacks in their SB season), so make Ed Oliver the new Kawann Short. 
I think he’ll start to show a bit more flexibility as the problems with the sustainability of that Carolina model (without the Carolina players in their primes) is becoming apparent. The distinction with the offense is obvious,

since Daboll has adapted to his personnel rather than making his personnel adapt to his scheme. Maybe a little more of a hands-off approach on defense is in order, letting Frazier (or whomever it may be) do what he thinks is optimal?

 

[chongli]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

McD is a fine coach. But he’s still a young coach, and he’s still in the mode

of “the defense we built in Carolina is the model for a successful NFL defense.”

Luke Kuechly was a dominant playmaking MLB there, so he’s focused on taking the raw talent of Edmunds and shaping him into the same type of player. 
Star was the middle of the line wall, so bring him in here. 
That allowed Kawann Short to be a playmaker next to Star (11 sacks in their SB season), so make Ed Oliver the new Kawann Short. 
I think he’ll start to show a bit more flexibility as the problems with the sustainability of that Carolina model (without the Carolina players in their primes) is becoming apparent. The distinction with the offense is obvious,

since Daboll has adapted to his personnel rather than making his personnel adapt to his scheme. Maybe a little more of a hands-off approach on defense is in order, letting Frazier (or whomever it may be) do what he thinks is optimal?

 

 

Got it! Thanks for the detailed explanation. I hope McD is reading this thread!

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, klos63 said:

We could have significant changes on both lines, 2nd CB, 2nd WR, TE, RB, LB... hard to make a sensible power ranking until we get past the draft at the earliest.

If you had to put out football informational content 24/7, you might think otherwise! 

 

LOL

 

 

[Magox]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think Lawson or Phillips would have made a difference.  They both didn't produce with the Dolphins and Cards.  

 

You shouldn't base it off of their production this year because it's a different team, different scheme etc etc.   Lawson, though no spectacular was a good edge setter who could get some second-third effort sacks.   Phillips was a player for the Bills the past couple years that could make some really nice penetration sacks and TFL.

 

I'm not second guessing Beane not re-signing those guys but the production they gave this team the year before last was more than the guys we brought in.   The Defensive Line was most certainly weaker against both the run and pass from that year.     

 

I have no doubt that Beane will make the defensive line a main priority in this year's FA/draft.    

[whatdrought]

Power rankings that put the newly crowned World Champions anywhere but #1 are immediately invalid to me. 

[BADOLBILZ]

30 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

You shouldn't base it off of their production this year because it's a different team, different scheme etc etc.   Lawson, though no spectacular was a good edge setter who could get some second-third effort sacks.   Phillips was a player for the Bills the past couple years that could make some really nice penetration sacks and TFL.

 

I'm not second guessing Beane not re-signing those guys but the production they gave this team the year before last was more than the guys we brought in.   The Defensive Line was most certainly weaker against both the run and pass from that year.     

 

I have no doubt that Beane will make the defensive line a main priority in this year's FA/draft.    

 

 

The schedule the Bills played in 2020 was also one of the tougher ones they've faced since the league went to 16 games.

 

The schedule they played in 2019 was probably the easiest one they have faced in that time.

 

That was the primary reason for the decline in the defensive rankings.

 

As Cover 1 has pointed out in their analysis though........the system has become very predictable.......which necessitates either adaptation of scheme or actually finally getting some pass rushers/playmakers in the front 7 that can force teams to make quicker decisions.

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think Lawson or Phillips would have made a difference.  They both didn't produce with the Dolphins and Cards.  

But they did produce with the Bills in the Bills system... players play best in certain systems, and with certain other players, it’s the lust for money that drives them from success to mediocrity...

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

But they did produce with the Bills in the Bills system... players play best in certain systems, and with certain other players, it’s the lust for money that drives them from success to mediocrity...

 

 

 

Are you hitting on me?

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The schedule the Bills played in 2020 was also one of the tougher ones they've faced since the league went to 16 games.

 

The schedule they played in 2019 was probably the easiest one they have faced in that time.

 

That was the primary reason for the decline in the defensive rankings.

 

As Cover 1 has pointed out in their analysis though........the system has become very predictable.......which necessitates either adaptation of scheme or actually finally getting some pass rushers/playmakers in the front 7 that can force teams to make quicker decisions.

 

I agree to an extent. I do slightly take issue with the system becoming predictable thing. I think what made them more vanilla in their coverages was a failure to win on first down for most of the season and 2/3 playoff games. The were actually pretty multiple with their coverage schemes in 2019 and while it is undoubtedly true they faced an easier slate of opposing QBs even the good ones they faced found it tough. That first New England game even Brady was totally befuddled. What happened this year is we were a much worse 1st down defense and it got us out of some of the less predictable looks we showed last year. I suppose it does come back to the same place - the answer to that is better talent up front. 

22 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

But they did produce with the Bills in the Bills system... players play best in certain systems, and with certain other players, it’s the lust for money that drives them from success to mediocrity...

 

I wasn't pounding the table for either and I still wouldn't for Phillips. But replacing Shaq with Addison was a dumb move. I don't know what the Bills FO saw when they watched Mario Addison in 2019 with Carolina but to my eye what was evident was a clear decline in his play. If they'd let Shaq walk and saved the money or put it together with some other cash for a high end replacement I'd be less frustrated. But they replaced him with an older player who was not an upgrade for the same money.

[Buftex]

Whatever they do with the defense, they have to infuse it with a "nasty" element that they are lacking sometimes.  The Chiefs had it against us... the Bucs defense had it the other night...the Ravens always have it. They may not win every game, but most everyone was a little scared of Balitmore in the playoffs, as much becasue their defensive reputation as their QB.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Buftex

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Whatever they do with the defense, they have to infuse it with a "nasty" element that they are lacking sometimes.  The Chiefs had it against us... the Bucs defense had it the other night...the Ravens always have it. They may not win every game, but most everyone was a little scared of Balitmore in the playoffs, as much becasue their defensive reputation as their QB.

Dalvin Tomlinson. Put him next to Oliver and watch Oliver have a 10 sack season.