Martellus Bennett about the dark side of football

[Punching Bag]

Quote

There are some good dudes tho. Jon Kitna it’s probably one of the best people I’ve ever met. He’s up there with Tom Hanks.

I was wondering does he actually know Tom Hanks or is it just what he sees in trades and TV? Apparently yes.

https://supersundayhq.com/houston-super-bowl-party-and-events-news-2017-sb51/martellus-bennett-espn-super-bowl-party/

 

Quote

The constant reminder of who you used to be by fans and trophies and highlights and family as you’re trying to transition into the new you really slows down the process.

Best for those people not be attending autograph shows, etc. during this period.  Most of the athletes I have met post retirement seem to be fairly well adjusted and enjoy hanging out with fans post career.  Most of them also are still involved in charities and their former teammates 

 

Quote

The other thing that I’ve talked guys they is no longer being a part of the locker room. Understanding that a lot of people weren’t really their friend it was just the proximity that brought the closeness. Really hurts athletes. After all you’ve been thru you would think y’all

That is what helps with our Superbowl era stars - they seem to still have connections with each other and some are texting each other every day.  And there are plenty who seem well adjusted and doing well even if they took different paths to get there.

[Malazan]

I think he says a lot of things that don't get said a lot and while many may say, after the fact, that it wasn't worth it... almost all of them if they went back in time would do it all over again for the money. 

[Mark80]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

No, it wasn't just CTE. That almost certainly played a part of it, but there was more to the entire story.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/9410051/a-year-later-one-junior-seau-close-friends-comes-forward-recount-version-descent

 

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It wasnt all CTE. CTE often becomes the convenient excuse/scapegoat because we have such a warped view of mental illness and emotional struggle in this country. These guys would rather blame it on a brain injury than admit they have issues that are not so physical and far more abstract, nuanced, and therefore trickier to treat.

 

 

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

You think a permanently injured brain (from football) wouldn't make it hard to adjust back? Nobody is saying you need to donate money, it doesn't cost anything to try and put yourself in their shoes.  It's a different set of problems than us with 9-5s, doesn't make it less valid 

 

What I'm saying is that CTE is the major contributor to suicides for former NFL players.  CTE has been shown to lead to depressions, confusion, and other brain issues, right?  I would like to see a study of suicide rates of former players without CTE damage compared to that of the general population.  If it's higher (statistically significantly higher to show a correlation) then I can buy off on the "Oh it's so hard to adjust to normal life" talk track.   I would venture to guess, yes guess as I have no idea, that it isn't and the issues of depression, suicide, psychosis, etc. are raised to a statistically significant amount only when CTE is involved as the catalyst.

 

In no way am I an expert on the subject, but from my limited knowledge that is how I understand it.  Please inform me otherwise if I'm wrong.

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, teef said:

i've mentioned it before, but my brother in law played pro sports for a decade plus.  he retired a few years ago, and it has been an issue.  why?  boredom.  they're bored out of their minds.  they came back "home" to live, but everyone here works during the day, has a schedule with kids at night, etc.  it's a sitting around all day, waiting for something to happen scenario.

See that all the time in my industry (entertainment) as well. When guys get off tour they have no clue what to do and after a few weeks they’re usually itching to get back out on tour. It’s a completely separate lifestyle from what most folks know, and it’s difficult to adapt to “normality”. That goes for the artists as well as all the techs.... Spending 6 plus months a year on the road living what amounts to an alternative lifestyle changes you, especially after you’ve done it for a decade or more. I’ve seen more than a few (myself included) fall into depression while adapting. 

[DaggersEOD]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

As someone whose dad was a professional soccer player, though not at the top level, I recognise some of what he says. My old man took like 10 years out of soccer in his 40s after playing from 16 to 35 and then coaching for 5 years and he basically was as lonely as ***** because his whole social circle came through soccer. Eventually he went back in age almost 50 to coach at a lower level just because he needed the involvement. It's a real thing for athletes the inability to adjust post career. 

 

This exact thing applies to Military members as well.  22 Vet suicides a day. 😰

[GoBills808]

17 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

 

 

What I'm saying is that CTE is the major contributor to suicides for former NFL players.  CTE has been shown to lead to depressions, confusion, and other brain issues, right?  I would like to see a study of suicide rates of former players without CTE damage compared to that of the general population.  If it's higher (statistically significantly higher to show a correlation) then I can buy off on the "Oh it's so hard to adjust to normal life" talk track.   I would venture to guess, yes guess as I have no idea, that it isn't and the issues of depression, suicide, psychosis, etc. are raised to a statistically significant amount only when CTE is involved as the catalyst.

 

In no way am I an expert on the subject, but from my limited knowledge that is how I understand it.  Please inform me otherwise if I'm wrong.

You're not wrong. It's why he shot himself in the chest.

[GunnerBill]

54 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

How upset would he be if he saw/heard you referring to it as soccer?

 

Hahaha. He would understand the context. He does watch the NFL a bit. Was into it in the 80s when it first got shown over here. Scandalously, or maybe no strangely appropriately, he is a fan of the Football Team.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

Welcome to the real world. People in almost every profession have a hard time leaving close friends and the bonds behind, as well as their self-worth starts to be questioned.

 

 

 

Yes, but not many careers end so young.

 

Nor do so many careers have groupies or magnificently high salaries. A few do, movie stars and such, but sports are different.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

 

This exact thing applies to Military members as well.  22 Vet suicides a day. 😰

 

Yea I think it is in general population a hetrosexual man issue - loneliness in later life and diminished friendship groups. The research I have seen suggests women and gay men are better at maintaining friendship groups into later life. That is exacerbated by environments like the military and pro sport where is that really close sense of brotherhood in early adult life that suddenly gets stripped away. I think it was a contributing factor to the breakdown of my parents' marriage. Not the only one but a significant one. My dad had no outlets at all. He really had no life outside the family. 

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yes, but not many careers end so young.

 

Nor do so many careers have groupies or magnificently high salaries. A few do, movie stars and such, but sports are different.

 

Or that same sense of brotherhood. I have good work friends but I don't shower with them on a daily basis, or travel around the country on a specially chartered flight / coach for considerable time each week. It is just different the environment in a locker room than in a conventional office type workplace. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It wasnt all CTE. CTE often becomes the convenient excuse/scapegoat because we have such a warped view of mental illness and emotional struggle in this country. These guys would rather blame it on a brain injury than admit they have issues that are not so physical and far more abstract, nuanced, and therefore trickier to treat.

 

 

 

Sure, in some of these guys it's not all CTE.

 

But CTE isn't just a brain injury. It's progressive and degenerative, brings about major behavioral change, depression, etc.

 

Sure, some CTE folks have other problems. Others don't and they still suffer horribly from CTE, if they get it.

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I think it is in general population a hetrosexual man issue - loneliness in later life and diminished friendship groups. The research I have seen suggests women and gay men are better at maintaining friendship groups into later life. That is exacerbated by environments like the military and pro sport where is that really close sense of brotherhood in early adult life that suddenly gets stripped away. I think it was a contributing factor to the breakdown of my parents' marriage. Not the only one but a significant one. My dad had no outlets at all. He really had no life outside the family. 

 

Or that same sense of brotherhood. I have good work friends but I don't shower with them on a daily basis, or travel around the country on a specially chartered flight / coach for considerable time each week. It is just different the environment in a locker room than in a conventional office type workplace. 

 

 

Yup, fair enough. It's different.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Thurman#1

[teef]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

See that all the time in my industry (entertainment) as well. When guys get off tour they have no clue what to do and after a few weeks they’re usually itching to get back out on tour. It’s a completely separate lifestyle from what most folks know, and it’s difficult to adapt to “normality”. That goes for the artists as well as all the techs.... Spending 6 plus months a year on the road living what amounts to an alternative lifestyle changes you, especially after you’ve done it for a decade or more. I’ve seen more than a few (myself included) fall into depression while adapting. 

oh i bet.  it's just such an abrupt change of lifestyle.  down time is nice, but when it begins to drag on that depression sets in.  when i was out of work for 10 weeks during the beginning of the pandemic, i thought i was going to lose my mind...and that was with me knowing that i'd eventually go back.  it was far too much down time for me.

[JMF2006]

So he blew all all his money and craves the limelight and now that he has to work like everyone else he is bitter and resentful.

 

Maybe he could team up with his brother or Marshall and become a Tag Team in wrestling....make some money and get back in the limelight.;)

 

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I think it is in general population a hetrosexual man issue - loneliness in later life and diminished friendship groups. The research I have seen suggests women and gay men are better at maintaining friendship groups into later life. That is exacerbated by environments like the military and pro sport where is that really close sense of brotherhood in early adult life that suddenly gets stripped away. I think it was a contributing factor to the breakdown of my parents' marriage. Not the only one but a significant one. My dad had no outlets at all. He really had no life outside the family. 

 

 

 

The demographic most affected by suicide is middle-aged men. And has been for decades.

 

A lot of pressure, not allowed to show emotion, must be "the strong one" for everyone else, and no outlets for dealing with it.

[Beast]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Yes, but not many careers end so young.

 

Nor do so many careers have groupies or magnificently high salaries. A few do, movie stars and such, but sports are different.

 

Military, Police, Fire, people getting transferred in companies....the list goes on and on.

 

Every day problems.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

So he blew all all his money and craves the limelight and now that he has to work like everyone else he is bitter and resentful.

 

Maybe he could team up with his brother or Marshall and become a Tag Team in wrestling....make some money and get back in the limelight.;)

 

 

Just now, Beast said:

 

Military, Police, Fire, people getting transferred in companies....the list goes on and on.

 

Every day problems.

 

 

And it's these types of attitudes that keep perpetuating untreated mental illness as a major problem.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

No, it wasn't just CTE. That almost certainly played a part of it, but there was more to the entire story.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/9410051/a-year-later-one-junior-seau-close-friends-comes-forward-recount-version-descent

 

 

What part of that is not likely to be related to CTE?

 

CTE symptoms include vulnerability to addictions and alcoholism, they include extreme irresponsibility with money, terrible problems sleeping, anxiety aggression, impulse control generally, suicidal tendencies and dementia. 

 

There's nothing there that isn't very likely caused by CTE. No way to prove it, of course, but that's what these CTE narratives sound like. Read the one about Mike Webster? Absolutely heart-breaking.

 

Several times there people talk about Seau's descent. He may have been a drug user and had an alcohol problem before but it suddenly got worse as he spiralled. This is all pretty typical, though it happened earlier with Seau then with some. 

[JMF2006]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

And it's these types of attitudes that keep perpetuating untreated mental illness as a major problem.

 

Maybe they need a symposium for all the guys retiring like they do for the rookies coming in to league.

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

And it's these types of attitudes that keep perpetuating untreated mental illness as a major problem.

 

So, it's only related to football and professional sports is what you are saying?

 

Because, if you aren't, like I said, every day problems that everyone deals with.

 

All of us.

[Thurman#1]

12 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Military, Police, Fire, people getting transferred in companies....the list goes on and on.

 

Every day problems.

 

 

 

So, in the military, police and fire companies and in transfers, around 99% of their careers are over by the late 30s like they are in football? Come on, man.

 

I'm not saying those careers aren't also tough rows to hoe and worthy of great respect. But the rates at which those careers end young doesn't even approach football.

 

And while plenty of members of the military voluntarily opt out young, that's not the same as being forced out in football because you can't do the job anymore.

 

Again, not saying military, police, first responders, etc. don't deserve our respect, understanding and more support than they may be getting. They do deserve those things.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Thurman#1

[GoBills808]

Just now, Beast said:

 

So, it's only related to football and professional sports is what you are saying?

 

Because, if you aren't, like I said, every day problems that everyone deals with.

 

All of us.

I think he's saying certain professions present circumstances likely to exacerbate existing mental illness, and pro football is one of the best examples.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

So, it's only related to football and professional sports is what you are saying?

 

Because, if you aren't, like I said, every day problems that everyone deals with.

 

All of us.

 

Maybe your previous post didnt properly convey what you meant, because it reads like you are dismissing these issues as something everyone has to deal with, and therefore isnt a big deal, and that these guys should "suck it up" like everyone else has to. 🤷‍♂️

 

[H2o]

17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

What part of that is not likely to be related to CTE?

 

CTE symptoms include vulnerability to addictions and alcoholism, they include extreme irresponsibility with money, terrible problems sleeping, anxiety aggression, impulse control generally, suicidal tendencies and dementia. 

 

There's nothing there that isn't very likely caused by CTE. No way to prove it, of course, but that's what these CTE narratives sound like. Read the one about Mike Webster? Absolutely heart-breaking.

 

Several times there people talk about Seau's descent. He may have been a drug user and had an alcohol problem before but it suddenly got worse as he spiralled. This is all pretty typical, though it happened earlier with Seau then with some. 

All these symptoms are also present in people who just get used to the fortune, fame, and spotlight that comes along with the thrill they get along their journey through athletics or in any other manner. Celebrity, fame, and fortune are all just like a drug. Many people suffer from it, or the lack thereof, when their respective times pass them by. Again, I'm not saying CTE did not play a part, but I am saying it was not the only cause. 

[Fan in San Diego]

Just to throw my $0.05 into this conversation. (Inflation) When I retired from Software Engineering I went thru a period of depression because that was my identity for so long. It took me a few years to feel comfortable in my new profession. Appraisal and Real Estate Investing. My Dad had a similar experience retiring from GM in Buffalo. I think it's normal. I'm sure Football players go thru the same thing.

 

[dave mcbride]

Incidentally, here is some important context behind Bennett's twitter thread: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-second-career-of-martellus-bennett/617256/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

And not just that, but lonely, shut out (not allowed in the facility), and no longer "the man". All those years of having folks following you around, telling you how great you are, just disappear. And now no one even wants you around. It's absolutely a difficult transition, and deserves empathy, regardless of how much fame/money they've acquired.

 

I'm sorry to say that, but it's your own personality flaw if you can't handle the change. It's not like you don't know its coming. You understand its part of the business and live with it. I work in film/tv and its the same crap. When you got a hit show everyone is kissing your ass, calling you, offering you the moon and sky; and when you don't have a show, you are the plague. You're a star or you are nothing and Hollywood spits you up and ***** you out, ready to churn in the next one.  Going in you know the risks and rewards and you prepare for them. If you don't, it's your fault. If you don't have thick skin, it's your own fault.  If you base your worth on your job, that's on you. If you surround yourself with people who use you and build you up only to tear you down, that is also on you. 

 

You know who I have empathy for. Hard-working Americans who get screwed over. Single moms who work two jobs to keep their kids fed. Front-line workers, cops, the military, those who risk their lives and their own comfort for the freedom and safety of others.  

 

Sorry, but if you make it to the big stage, you need to use it to make the world better around you and I applaud the players who use their fame and influence to help others. Selfish, me-first athletes who whine and cry down a spiral of their own self-destruction don't deserve to be "the man" anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, BillsRdue said:

 

I'm sorry to say that, but it's your own personality flaw if you can't handle the change. It's not like you don't know its coming. You understand its part of the business and live with it. I work in film/tv and its the same crap. When you got a hit show everyone is kissing your ass, calling you, offering you the moon and sky; and when you don't have a show, you are the plague. You're a star or you are nothing and Hollywood spits you up and ***** you out, ready to churn in the next one.  Going in you know the risks and rewards and you prepare for them. If you don't, it's your fault. If you don't have thick skin, it's your own fault.  If you base your worth on your job, that's on you. If you surround yourself with people who use you and build you up only to tear you down, that is also on you. 

 

You know who I have empathy for. Hard-working Americans who get screwed over. Single moms who work two jobs to keep their kids fed. Front-line workers, cops, the military, those who risk their lives and their own comfort for the freedom and safety of others.  

 

Sorry, but if you make it to the big stage, you need to use it to make the world better around you and I applaud the players who use their fame and influence to help others. Selfish, me-first athletes who whine and cry down a spiral of their own self-destruction don't deserve to be "the man" anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

Except this isn't what happened to Bennett if you read the piece above. He's talking about a more general phenomenon.

[Beast]

50 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe your previous post didnt properly convey what you meant, because it reads like you are dismissing these issues as something everyone has to deal with, and therefore isnt a big deal, and that these guys should "suck it up" like everyone else has to. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

I'm saying what he has to deal with, or is dealing with, isn't exclusive to being a professional athlete.

[DrDawkinstein]

21 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I'm saying what he has to deal with, or is dealing with, isn't exclusive to being a professional athlete.

 

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight.

[billsfan89]

I forgot which player Max Kellerman was talking to but I remember an NFL who was recently retired from the 90's/00's said that Any Given Sunday was the most accurate portrayal of professional football in media. It is a brutal sport that grinds up a lot of lives. As much as I hate the "softening" of the league I do prefer these guys having shorter careers and more protections. I like how players are much more aware and informed about the risks of playing. I don't like to see a lot of these older players destroyed in their 50's and 60's.

[Spiderweb]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It wasnt all CTE. CTE often becomes the convenient excuse/scapegoat because we have such a warped view of mental illness and emotional struggle in this country. These guys would rather blame it on a brain injury than admit they have issues that are not so physical and far more abstract, nuanced, and therefore trickier to treat.

 

So sayeth you. Calling CTE a convenient excuse is just plain ignorant of what it can do to a person. 

[blacklabel]

Some of what he's saying is interesting. The only job he's ever had is football so he doesn't have any frame of reference for what it's like in other industries or whatever. Everyone makes friends at work that seem like your best pal Monday thru Friday but then one of you moves on to a new job and you just don't stay that connected. Comes with age as well. When I was younger it was easy to make friends at work and people were always hanging outside of work. Nowadays if I get asked to some non-work function with work people I always pass because I'd rather just go home. 

 

Many industries like football seem glamorous due to how much money they make but every industry has its dirty, seedy underbelly. Especially those northern elves that evidently control a monopoly on the holiday toy industry. Sketchy folks. Small hands. Smell like cabbage. 

[babulator]

It's called life, and it's difficult even in the best of times. Anyone with any self awareness will question the decisions they've made over their lives at some point.

 

It's not that anything he's saying is untrue, it's that he seems soo surprised by it, or rather that we should be surprised by these things. I mean, no your co-workers are not your family despite what successes and hardships you've had to endure together. People that have to invest soo much time into their professions often feel lonely or unsatisfied after their careers end. There are countless hard and dangerous jobs pout there that pay a fraction of the pay, give me a break. Maybe he's familiar with the armed forces, or with fire or policemen; linemen, oil or gas industry workers, heavy construction etc. etc. etc.

 

He sounds like a child with zero perspective. He probably thinks he's a hero for typing this up from the comfort of his mansion.

 

💩

[Nextmanup]

I don't find anything that he wrote particularly controversial or unsusual.

 

The one thing I would disagree with is his assertion that most of the time, retired football players will look back on their career and say it was NOT worth it.

 

Every time I have EVER heard a retired NFL player speak about that, he says he would do it all over again in a minute.

 

 

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

"Most of them (coaches) are egotistical small dick heroes."

 

lol

Seems about right to me.  With some exceptions, of course.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Incidentally, here is some important context behind Bennett's twitter thread: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-second-career-of-martellus-bennett/617256/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

 

Wow, Thank you for sharing that!  That's really really cool.  Sounds like he's Found his Bliss

[Saint Doug]

@Not at the table Karlos

@BillsShredder83

@Billl

 

Sorry, the data is the data. Current and former NFL players have about half the suicide rate compared to general population. 
 

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/how-common-is-suicide-among-retired-nfl-players/article_49e5108a-809c-59d7-97ef-2df445d18d97.html

 

Here’s the link to the scientific study cited in this article:

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0363546516645093?casa_token=TFAK1-kQN6gAAAAA%3AKyqIEGz5esiSVWJhOKPBDpibifj8qR2wYHApeNlNowWpYfLenP7MTdC5NjTsXnLQ_NzUg-XfAU8ssQ

Edited February 4, 2021 by Saint Doug

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow, Thank you for sharing that!  That's really really cool.  Sounds like he's Found his Bliss

My wife Leah actually works with a couple of the companies mentioned in the piece (Fine & Raw Chocolate and OddFellows Ice Cream). She flagged it for me. Props to her.

[purple haze]

Professional athletics is not the same as a nine-to-five job.  Unless you’re a CEO it’s not the same.  The amount of money involved.  The level of adulation.  And all that comes with it is extremely heightened.  Thurman Thomas went through a drinking problem after he retired.    Many former pro’s talk about the difficulty of adjusting.  Why folks taking a things so personally?  It’s okay to love the sport and acknowledge the flaws of the game/people.

[John from Riverside]

What he says about coaches is absolutely correct.   I do have a story here.

 

Right before my son's senior year of high school the HC of the football team (my son had been playing football for many years by this time....had made varsity his freshman year......was really involved in it.....offseason training programs.....skill camps......all star team games, etc etc etc.

 

He invites me for a beer and wants to discuss what he is trying to do as far as getting a scholarship for my son to college.......wanted to make sure I knew exactly which games scouts were going to be out......make sure he doesnt get anybody pregnant....stay out of trouble.......basically just follow behind him and do the good parent thing.

 

My son tears his ACL in a passing scrimmiage right before the first game of his senior season......bam.....scholarship gone.   It wasnt the only reason why but the HS team ended up having a HORRIBLE season that year......lots of injuries......hardly won a game.

 

At the end of that season.......that HC.....committed suicide.  Leaving behind a wife and 3 children that loved him

 

 

[Gugny]

 There is no dark side of football, really. Matter of fact, it's all dark. The only thing that makes it look light is the sun.

[Big Turk]

8 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

 

I'm sorry to say that, but it's your own personality flaw if you can't handle the change. It's not like you don't know its coming. You understand its part of the business and live with it. I work in film/tv and its the same crap. When you got a hit show everyone is kissing your ass, calling you, offering you the moon and sky; and when you don't have a show, you are the plague. You're a star or you are nothing and Hollywood spits you up and ***** you out, ready to churn in the next one.  Going in you know the risks and rewards and you prepare for them. If you don't, it's your fault. If you don't have thick skin, it's your own fault.  If you base your worth on your job, that's on you. If you surround yourself with people who use you and build you up only to tear you down, that is also on you. 

 

You know who I have empathy for. Hard-working Americans who get screwed over. Single moms who work two jobs to keep their kids fed. Front-line workers, cops, the military, those who risk their lives and their own comfort for the freedom and safety of others.  

 

Sorry, but if you make it to the big stage, you need to use it to make the world better around you and I applaud the players who use their fame and influence to help others. Selfish, me-first athletes who whine and cry down a spiral of their own self-destruction don't deserve to be "the man" anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean but couldn't you also say that about single moms working two jobs?  Or cops? The military? They made the choice to go into the field they are in.  They could have chose something different.  The person working 2 jobs could have chosen a better paying field to go into so they only had to work 1 job.  I mean, literally you could use the same argument for anything