MMQB on Josh Allen's development

[HappyDays]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/21/mmqb-week-15-jets-win-josh-allen-dominates-dolphins-eliminate-patriots

 

What did you say about me back then?

The question from Bills QB Josh Allen took me aback a little, but it was a very fair one after the show he put on Saturday night—throwing for 359 yards and two scores on 28-of-40 passing, as Buffalo blasted Denver 48–19 to clinch its first AFC East title in a generation.

That you were raw, I replied. Was that fair?

“Yeah, I can say that was,” Allen responded. “I’m just glad I was drafted to this organization. They’ve given me the tools to be as successful as I can be, and I feel like I’m still learning, still getting better. I love my teammates, I love how hard they work, how hard we work together. And the hard work is paying dividends.”
And this isn’t just about winning the division for the first time in a quarter-century, though that part probably felt pretty good for the coach Sean McDermott and GM Brandon Beane, who believed so deeply in Allen in 2018, and have been building toward this for four years now.

More so, this all feels, like Allen alluded to, like the Bills just starting to realize their considerable potential—with a roster young and loaded that only figures to keep improving, as long as Beane and McDermott can keep the core of young stars together, something that they started working on earlier this year with extensions for left tackle Dion Dawkins and corner Tre’Davious White. Allen, of course, will be among the first guys they approach on that front this season.

And that we’re at that point, with Allen likely to be the first of the 2018 draft’s quarterbacks to get his big second contract after this breakout season of his concludes, brings us back to how all his development from that raw prospect out of Wyoming was put on display (again) on Saturday in Denver. Two hours or so from that campus, three years later, Allen was nails.

That he’s here, of course, isn’t an accident. It’s the result of a team looking at the talent, and the person, and believing that he would do everything he could to harvest the former, which is exactly how this happened—how a scattershot passer became accurate, how a guy who played with a frantic pace got calm and how a coachable player found himself with the right people to show him the way.
“Well, I don’t mean to pat myself on the back, but I work extremely hard, whether it be in practice or the offseason, trying to find ways to get better,” Allen told me. “This offseason obviously was different with coronavirus, but it really gave me a chance to take a step back and see things from a different type of perspective, work on my mechanics, get more consistent. And the ball’s feeling good off my hand right now.

“When I’m on the field, I don’t think there’s a throw I can’t make, and being in the system for three years with coach [Brian] Daboll, him trusting me to go out there, give him suggestions on plays, and us calling those plays and having success, there’s just this trust factor that this team has. The guys around us, the quarterback room, Coach [Ken] Dorsey, it involves everybody. And it took a small army to get where I am.”

Through our conversation, I was able to pick up a couple of moments that reflected the work of that small army—from the coordinator (Daboll) to the position coach (Dorsey) to his teammates—and illustrated how it’s coming to life in Allen’s talent manifesting.

The first: Second-and-goal, Denver 22, 1:54 left in the second quarter.

At the two-minute warning, with the Bills facing first-and-goal from the 30 (thanks to three consecutive penalties), Allen went to Dorsey with an idea for a play. Dorsey relayed it to Daboll, and after a throw to Isaiah McKenzie picked up eight yards on first down, second-and-goal from the 22 was the right time to lean on what the young quarterback was seeing out on the field.

“We had a timeout right before, and I said [to Dorsey], I really like this play—let’s call this,” Allen said. “And I know it’s first-and-goal from the 30, but I was telling the guys, ‘We’re still gonna score; let’s not freak out.’ Coach Daboll trusted me with the play-call, I followed the quarter safety, he was trying to push over, but right at the snap, I saw him stop his feet and we had enough time, and [Jake] Kumerow ran the right route and made a heck of a catch.”

If you watched the game, you’ll remember the throw to Kumerow, of course—an absolute bullet to pierce the thin air of Denver, and one right down Main Street, between that safety Allen referenced, Justin Simmons, and a second safety, Kareem Jackson, and into a small window to his receiver, running a post into the end zone out of the slot. But what went into it, more so than the act of getting it there, is what matters, for our purposes.

In one fell swoop, Allen showed he had the voice to speak up to the coaches, the stature for them to listen and the ability to take things he noticed earlier in the game and project them into strategy later on. So no, this scenario wouldn’t have played out a couple of years ago.

The second: Third-and-six, Denver 34, 4:09 left in the third quarter.

Denver showed pressure and brought five at the snap—and on the play both A.J. Johnson and Malik Reed shook free to Allen’s right and bore down on the quarterback, taking away his vision to that side of the field. Allen was left to throw to a spot and had to trust Stefon Diggs would be there.

Lucky for the Bills, Allen has that sort of trust in Diggs, and Diggs can justify it. So Allen threw into the face of the rush, and Diggs dove on the other end to get to the ball well past the sticks, then got to his feet before being dragged down after a 16-yard gain. Buffalo wasn’t able to cash that one in with a touchdown (that was the drive on which the Bills had two touchdowns nullified, and when Allen was caught on camera saying, “How many times do we need to score?”), but the sequence showed, for sure, just where he is with his receivers.

And with Diggs, specifically.

“It’s that trust factor,” Allen said. “He does his job. He works extremely hard in practice. The communication shared between us all, the receiver group as a whole, it’s unbelievable, and it’s different than anything else I’ve been a part of. To have that trust, you see it over and over, the juice that he brings, every time the ball’s in the air, he’s attacking it and trying to go get it for me, it instills that faith that I have in him.

“I definitely think he is the best receiver in the game for what he does, how he creates separation, the juice that he brings, the run after the catch, you name it. He’s top-tier in every single thing that he does.”

With every game, it sure feels like Allen’s getting closer to that level too, and that makes the Bills, going into Christmas week, the top threat to the Chiefs’ juggernaut in the AFC.

I don’t know if they, or anyone else, can beat K.C. at Arrowhead in January. What I do know is it’ll take a team with a certain self-assuredness to do it—and, after talking to Allen on Saturday night, it’s crystal clear to me that he and his team have it, both in themselves individually and what they’ve built collectively.

“Personally, there’s a lot of people that said there’s no way in hell that I’d be able to do this coming out of college,” Allen said. “I don’t play to prove other people wrong; I play to prove myself right, my family right and my teammates right. Obviously, the first time in 25 years, we’re [winning the division], it’s something special. But the work’s not done.”

So yeah, this weekend was just a step toward where they want to go. But based on where the franchise has been, and who it dethroned in the process, it was a pretty big one.

[Gugny]

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

 No, he talks up Jordan a lot.  

[Buftex]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

To paraphrase Don Draper "I pay you...that is your credit"

 

[Malazan]

23 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

 

No, he talks up Palmer all the time especially in the offseason.

[Big Turk]

I don't think we even realize just how far and how fast Allen is improving on a near weekly basis...what is talked about in that article is clearly exceptionally high football IQ(no...not a reference to the poster), understanding what the defense is trying to do in certain situations, how to best attack it, speaking up and the coaches believing in him to the point they call the play he asks for and then he goes out and executes it to perfection including looking off the safety to hold him before coming back and throwing a laser to the area of the field that he knows will be vacated and his guy will be running wide open to.

 

That is next level QB'ing. That is like Aaron Rodgers type stuff. It is just stunning not only how fast Allen has reached this level from where he was at but just how much further he can go. 

 

Just like when he draws them Offside with his cadence and then tries to throw deep like Rodgers does on a free play...either try and get a free completion or a DPI and get a 40 yard penalty instead of a 5 yard one...next level.

 

Coverages that caused Allen issues earlier in the year like against Tennessee and KC he is now shredding when the 49ers and Broncos attempted them.

 

Allen has progressed to this point so fast and from so far away it's hard not to just be giddy to think about the possibilities for the next 10 or 15 years.

Edited December 21, 2020 by matter2003

[ganesh]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I don't think we even realize just how far and how fast Allen is improving on a near weekly basis...what is talked about in that article is clearly exceptionally high football IQ(no...not a reference to the poster), understanding what the defense is trying to do in certain situations, how to best attack it, speaking up and the coaches believing in him to the point they call the play he asks for and then he goes out and executes it to perfection including looking off the safety to hold him before coming back and throwing a laser to the area of the field that he knows will be vacated and his guy will be running wide open to.

 

That is next level QB'ing. That is like Aaron Rodgers type stuff. It is just stunning not only how fast Allen has reached this level from where he was at but just how much further he can go. 

 

Just like when he draws them Offside with his cadence and then tries to throw deep like Rodgers does on a free play...either try and get a free completion or a DPI and get a 40 yard penalty instead of a 5 yard one...next level.

 

Coverages that caused Allen issues earlier in the year like against Tennessee and KC he is now shredding when the 49ers and Broncos attempted them.

 

Allen has progressed to this point so fast and from so far away it's hard not to just be giddy to think about the possibilities for the next 10 or 15 years.

It is all the hard work he is putting in to improve the mental aspects that is paying huge dividends

[Thurman#1]

40 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 No, he talks up Jordan a lot.  

 

 

Yeah. I've heard it many times. When he talks mechanics, that's mostly who he's talking about, though he got some tips from Romo this year. 

 

Not that Palmer is teaching anything the Bills don't want taught. But Josh goes back to Palmer each offseason because he's getting what he needs there and he knows it.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Thurman#1

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah. I've heard it many times. When he talks mechanics, that's mostly who he's talking about, though he got some tips from Romo this year. 

 

Not that Palmer is teaching anything the Bills don't want taught. But Josh goes back to Palmer each offseason because he's getting what he needs there and he knows it.

 

If Josh thinks it is important for his development he needs to keep doing it. How much of it is really the critical factor and how much is a bit of placebo effect doesn't matter. If it is working for him keep doing it.

 

I do again recommend to people who didn't see it the Jordan Palmer piece on the Herd last week about a number of the young QBs in the league, Josh included. It was excellent. 

[Big Blitz]

55 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

 

 

I'd rather us say very little about what we're doing, what Josh is thinking, and just stick to the platitudes.  

 

Knowing Josh, one day I wouldn't be surprised if he's asked if he thinks he's arrived or if he can be even better and he responds with "I never stop never stopping."

 

 

Every interview shouldn't be an Oscar Acceptance speech where we thank everyone for our successes the same way we don't blame anyone for the failures.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Big Turk]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah. I've heard it many times. When he talks mechanics, that's mostly who he's talking about, though he got some tips from Romo this year. 

 

Not that Palmer is teaching anything the Bills don't want taught. But Josh goes back to Palmer each offseason because he's getting what he needs there and he knows it.

 

Why is it that of all the QBs that work with Palmer in the offseason, Allen is the only one who has shown this type of skyrocketing growth??  I mean Darnold and Lock are both part of the group too...

 

Just shows how much harder Allen is willing to work than some of the others...there is working hard and then there is becoming obsessed...Allen is obsessed...

 

Also doesn't hurt he is extremely physically gifted.

Edited December 21, 2020 by matter2003

[Rochesterfan]

23 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I don't think we even realize just how far and how fast Allen is improving on a near weekly basis...what is talked about in that article is clearly exceptionally high football IQ(no...not a reference to the poster), understanding what the defense is trying to do in certain situations, how to best attack it, speaking up and the coaches believing in him to the point they call the play he asks for and then he goes out and executes it to perfection including looking off the safety to hold him before coming back and throwing a laser to the area of the field that he knows will be vacated and his guy will be running wide open to.

 

That is next level QB'ing. That is like Aaron Rodgers type stuff. It is just stunning not only how fast Allen has reached this level from where he was at but just how much further he can go. 

 

Just like when he draws them Offside with his cadence and then tries to throw deep like Rodgers does on a free play...either try and get a free completion or a DPI and get a 40 yard penalty instead of a 5 yard one...next level.

 

Coverages that caused Allen issues earlier in the year like against Tennessee and KC he is now shredding when the 49ers and Broncos attempted them.

 

Allen has progressed to this point so fast and from so far away it's hard not to just be giddy to think about the possibilities for the next 10 or 15 years.

Not only that, but to trust a guy like Kumerow will be in the right spot and make that play is amazing.  That was not Diggs or Beasley that he has been with all off season  or even a guy like Davis that has been on the team since the off season.  This was a late addition to the PS - that got called up to play special teams and yet Allen put the ball perfectly on him like they have run that play a thousand times.

 

Good for both of them - that was impressive to me.

[Mat68]

I dont think Josh Allen gets the credit he deserves for improving Josh Allen.  You can take a horse to water, sort of speak.  He trains beside Darnold.  He plays for an offensive Guru who was fired from that position multiple times.  Allen top 2 targets Buffalo was mocked for over paying Beasley.  Laughed at for over paying for Diggs.  I mean Diggs wasnt that productive wih Cousins.  Now no Thelian good luck.  

 

My point is great players and Qbs make people around them better.  Jordan Palmer and Tony Romo fixed Allens motion.  Daboll is a Qb whisperer.  Beasly is the best slot guy in the league.  Diggs is one of the best wrs.  The common denominator with all these is Allen.  Allen put the work in and he is balling.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What is amazing about Josh is not only

the mechanical Improvement and reading of defenses, But the pocket presence improvement.

 

He is no Longer jumpy in any way. I think it was last game where he was just surrounded by blitzers and guys flying at him, and he didn’t flinch and didn’t move. Just trusted his pocket (which held Up), and waited and waited and delivered a laser to Beasley.

[Rochesterfan]

12 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Why is it that of all the QBs that work with Palmer in the offseason, Allen is the only one who has shown this type of skyrocketing growth??  I mean Darnold and Lock are both part of the group too...

 

Just shows how much harder Allen is willing to work than some of the others...there is working hard and then there is becoming obsessed...Allen is obsessed...

 

Also doesn't hurt he is extremely physically gifted.

 

I know on the Jets board earlier this year they were blasting Palmer because Darnold has shown so little improvement, but I think it is something about Josh and how little he has played QB that helps him make changes.  Everything is not solidified in his technique at this point.
 

I don’t know what percentage of growth is Palmer and/or what percentage of that group time is just a frat boy party that relaxes and gets them prepared to learn, but for Josh it works.  Then to get into the newer technology to analyze his throws and how to improve and then to rep that - just shows his work ethic.

 

They all say they want to get better, but I firmly believe that it is in his DNA makeup to outwork people because he has always been doubted and that drives him to do those extra reps, watch that extra film, or ask a question to understand what the OC or a WR is seeing.  He is also not afraid to change and to adapt and that is sometimes the hardest thing for these kids.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

I love that Josh called that Kumerow play. Great stuff. 
 

Thanks for the link, Happy. Good read. 

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

Others stated Allen’s positive comments in the off season, but he is on the Opening Drive on NFLR usually on Tuesday mornings.  I’ve spoken to him several times and he plays it down to a fault, so maybe Palmer tells Allen to play it off as it helps Allen and Palmers business. The opposite is true as well as Palmer among others has Darnold living with Allen.  If he has to take credit for Allen, then he would have to take responsibility for Darnold failures although it’s really the Jets failures.  Smart move on Palmers part.

 

Im sure he has on the down low guys like Allen or Burrow talking to rookies like Lawrence next year saying, hey take on this personal coach.  It’s worth it.

 

Do you guys really think the footwork change which by many smart ex QB’s has said Allen’s best improvement in accuracy is his footwork.  That was all Palmer, and Allen’s drive to be the best.  Daboll may get the credit, but he didn’t even get to spend time with him this off season.

 

oalmer may have been a mediocre NFL backup QB, but he has turned into one heck of a good AB coach.  He’s a smart guy.  You can bet he and Daboll talked all off season on Allen’s development.

 

[BigDingus]

"...and how a coachable player found himself with the right people to show him the way"

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by BigDingus

[HappyDays]

36 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I love that Josh called that Kumerow play. Great stuff.

 

It's not mentioned in this article but he also called the deep pass to Diggs when we were already up 35-13. He wanted that dagger.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

He credits him for his help all the time. But man thinking about it Palmer probably going to be pretty popular this offseason.

[BruceVilanch]

The biggest thing I saw last night was Josh manipulating the LBs, he hit Cole with a slant early in the game, and then later in the game he had Cole running the same route, pump faked the first zone window and hit him in the second. No chance he does that last year or possibly even this September. Dude is progressing at an incredible rate.

[Logic]

I've always liked Peter King, formerly author of the weekly Monday Morning Quarterback article for Sports Illustrated, and now writing Football Morning in America for NBC Sports. This week's column leads off with a big section about the Bills. I'll post a segment from it, but there's a whole lot more, and I suggest giving it a read.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/21/buffalo-bills-afc-east-nfl-week-15-fmia-peter-king/

 

A couple weeks ago, after practice, the two longest-tenured Buffalo Bills sat in the locker room, suitably spaced out, discussing what seemed impossible. Long-snapper Reid Ferguson, on the Bills practice squad when Sean McDermott was named coach in January 2017, told defensive end Jerry Hughes, the only active player left on the roster from that day, that they were the only pre-McDermotts left.

“Impossible!” Hughes said. “No way!”

Way. Ferguson and Hughes started naming names. The relative old-timers—defensive tackle Kyle Williams, kicker Steven Hauschka, punter Colton Schmidt—all gone. They brought up player after player in the locker room, but none was there before 2017. Just two of the 79 active, practice-squad and IR players on the 2020 Bills were in this locker room four years earlier. Two!

“We sat there 15 minutes,” Hughes told me Saturday night, “and thinking about it just blew my mind. We really are the Last of the Mohicans.”

Another way to look at it: Buffalo is an expansion team with a star quarterback and some great personnel decisions made by GM Brandon Beane and McDermott. On Saturday in Denver, the Bills finally summited Mount Belichick, the mountain this franchise has been climbing through seven separate coaching administrations since New England and coach Bill Belichick began division dominance in 2001. The 48-19 obliteration of the outmanned Broncos in Denver on Saturday broke the Patriots’ stranglehold on the division (11 straight East titles, and 16 of the last 17) and gave the remade Bills their first AFC division title in a quarter-century. Think of it this way: The last time the Bills won the AFC East, in 1995, most of us didn’t use email.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Logic

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

he hit Cole with a slant early in the game, and then later in the game he had Cole running the same route, pump faked the first zone window and hit him in the second.

 

You can see those plays broken down here:

 

 

Imagine being Josey Jewell. There's nothing you can do because whatever window you defend Allen will just throw it the other window. That has to be so frustrating for a defender when you play it exactly right and still lose. And Allen has plays like that multiple times in every game.

[BigDingus]

That's pretty crazy to think about...

I only wish they could've been the ones to take down Brady & Belichick while they were still together, but oh well. 

On another note, my 9 year old self was using email in 1995! 😁

[dollars 2 donuts]

I want this to be the Bills first Super Bowl season in 27 years.  

 

Can we now run through all the tired bull**** about what the price of gas was in 1993, or what was the top song?

Edited December 21, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[BruceVilanch]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You can see those plays broken down here:

 

 

Imagine being Josey Jewell. There's nothing you can do because whatever window you defend Allen will just throw it the other window. That has to be so frustrating for a defender when you play it exactly right and still lose. And Allen has plays like that multiple times in every game.

My fiance is a huge seahawks fan and loves Russell wilson, but Saturday we were watching the game and that kummerow throw was the one that got her to finally admit Josh can make throws that Russell can't. She still says she would rather have Russell but the gap is closing

[BigBuff423]

What strikes me about this interview is that Josh regularly references the hard work he puts in, to showcase his dedication and that he's committed to continuing to be the best version of himself he can become, but also how everyone works toward the same goal. It's almost as if he gives us a peek at his chip on his shoulder, and then quickly throws a cloak over it as he praises his teammates and Daboll. I love the confidence, and yet the humility to realize he can't do it alone and won't accomplish anything without the contributions of everyone else, from WRs, to RBs, to TEs, to coaches to trainers, etc. 

 

I love how he says he plays to prove himself right, not everyone else wrong....it's a different perspective with a common theme: demonstrate the ability by winning and nothing else will matter. I really appreciate how he puts King on his heels by that first question about what he said about Josh coming out of college and to Josh's credit when King called him "raw", Josh admitted it was fair.

 

Most of us have never disagreed with, in fact often championed, the term of "raw" but have only taken issue with those pundits that determined before he ever played a game he would be terrible. Or even more that refused to accept that Josh could and would get better. Josh has shown remarkable improvement and as he said it took "a small army" to make him better.

 

Let's hope Allen stays confident yet humble and continues to build the team chemistry. #BillsMafia 

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

rouse much, rabbler?

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

 

Why is it that of all the QBs that work with Palmer in the offseason, Allen is the only one who has shown this type of skyrocketing growth??  

 

Just shows how much harder Allen is willing to work than some of the others...there is working hard and then there is becoming obsessed...Allen is obsessed...

It’s his cognitive talent and obsessive drive to be the best, and as it has been said, it’s happening so damn fast, week to week even. the guys a freakin machine! 
 

Go Bills!!!
 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Gugny]

20 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

rouse much, rabbler?

 

Not this time!!  My question was a serious one.

 

I'm misunderstood, once again!!

[Bleedbuffaloblue]

Great article. Thanks for posting. A lot of interesting information after the Bills section. Good read.

[Magox]

 

[somnus00]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

I don't think we even realize just how far and how fast Allen is improving on a near weekly basis...what is talked about in that article is clearly exceptionally high football IQ(no...not a reference to the poster), understanding what the defense is trying to do in certain situations, how to best attack it, speaking up and the coaches believing in him to the point they call the play he asks for and then he goes out and executes it to perfection including looking off the safety to hold him before coming back and throwing a laser to the area of the field that he knows will be vacated and his guy will be running wide open to.

 

That is next level QB'ing. That is like Aaron Rodgers type stuff. It is just stunning not only how fast Allen has reached this level from where he was at but just how much further he can go. 

 

Just like when he draws them Offside with his cadence and then tries to throw deep like Rodgers does on a free play...either try and get a free completion or a DPI and get a 40 yard penalty instead of a 5 yard one...next level.

 

Coverages that caused Allen issues earlier in the year like against Tennessee and KC he is now shredding when the 49ers and Broncos attempted them.

 

Allen has progressed to this point so fast and from so far away it's hard not to just be giddy to think about the possibilities for the next 10 or 15 years.

 

Absolutely! We really can see him improving week to week. As much as I'm blown away by his arm, it's his ability to adjust and be coached that impresses me the most.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Mat68 said:

I dont think Josh Allen gets the credit he deserves for improving Josh Allen.  You can take a horse to water, sort of speak.  He trains beside Darnold.  He plays for an offensive Guru who was fired from that position multiple times.  Allen top 2 targets Buffalo was mocked for over paying Beasley.  Laughed at for over paying for Diggs.  I mean Diggs wasnt that productive wih Cousins.  Now no Thelian good luck.  

 

My point is great players and Qbs make people around them better.  Jordan Palmer and Tony Romo fixed Allens motion.  Daboll is a Qb whisperer.  Beasly is the best slot guy in the league.  Diggs is one of the best wrs.  The common denominator with all these is Allen.  Allen put the work in and he is balling.

 

This is the issue I take when people trash Daboll as an OC from his other stops.  He literally was on 4 teams that might have been in the top 20 worst skill position players of all time. They were all time bad.  When your best QB out of the 4 teams to work with is Brady Quinn that says a lot...of bad things. I mean it's not like he took over a team that had tons of talent on offense and drove it into the ground the way Rex did with our D. He took over teams that had terrible players on it and did the best he could with crap to work with.   

 

So it's like saying a doctor sucks at saving patients lives when all of the ones being brought in are on the brink of death...there is only so much you can do no matter how good you are.

[BuffaninSarasota]

4 hours ago, Buftex said:

To paraphrase Don Draper "I pay you...that is your credit"

 

 

fantastic reference to the one of the best characters from one of the best series ........thank you

[Mat68]

9 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

This is the issue I take when people trash Daboll as an OC from his other stops.  He literally was on 4 teams that might have been in the top 20 worst skill position players of all time. They were all time bad.  When your best QB out of the 4 teams to work with is Brady Quinn that says a lot...of bad things. I mean it's not like he took over a team that had tons of talent on offense and drove it into the ground the way Rex did with our D. He took over teams that had terrible players on it and did the best he could with crap to work with.   

 

So it's like saying a doctor sucks at saving patients lives when all of the ones being brought in are on the brink of death...there is only so much you can do no matter how good you are.

Im not trashing him.  He obviously is doing a good job.  He also isnt Vince Lombardi or Bill Walsh reinventing offensive football.  When speaking of Allen's success everyone names "so and so" as the reason.  All im saying Allen is the reason hes successful.  He has help most first rd qbs have at their dispossal.  Giving all the credit to other people imo is slighting Allen as a player.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

Is it me, or does Allen never give Jordan Palmer public credit for his improvements?

 

It's you. 

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's you. 

 

I still think that during the regular season, I don't recall him mentioning Palmer .. only those on the Bills staff.  During the offseason, yes ... I do remember him talking about Palmer quite a bit.

[Rubes]

The thing that I really like about Allen's game now is that we're not seeing the same crazy Josh we would see when teams could rattle him with blitzes and pressure, like the Texans game from last year. We saw a little bit of it early this year as well, but not much, and over the last 8-9 games, basically none of it.

 

Most QBs fold under heavy pressure, but with Josh it would bring out the wild and crazy disaster plays. Teams knew if they could blitz him and get pressure on him, he'd start freaking out and all sorts of wild ***** would happen. But what we're seeing now is a couple of things: a more calm, composed Josh, one who doesn't spaz out when the heat comes, and a Josh who can recognize blitzes and coverages and calmly make teams pay, either with his arm or his feet.

 

His improvement in accuracy is phenomenal, but IMO this is the improvement we really needed to see if he was going to make that huge leap to elite status.

 

[JMF2006]

5 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I'd rather us say very little about what we're doing, what Josh is thinking, and just stick to the platitudes.  

 

Knowing Josh, one day I wouldn't be surprised if he's asked if he thinks he's arrived or if he can be even better and he responds with "I never stop never stopping."

 

 

Every interview shouldn't be an Oscar Acceptance speech where we thank everyone for our successes the same way we don't blame anyone for the failures.

 

 

 

 

Our he could just say " How Do Like Me Now" 

 

I would be cool with that