Flores: Tua benched, not hurt

[Wayne Cubed]

I think Flores has let the idea that the Dolphins could make the playoffs cloud his judgement in what the plan is long term. If you go to Tua, that's it, you should be willing to risk losing a game. And if you aren't sure about him long term, it's even more reason you leave him in. You have to know what you have.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Wayne Cubed

[buffaloboyinATL]

14 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Terrible coaching to mess with the kids confidence this early in his career. 

and I couldn't be happier.    

[DrDawkinstein]

Tua should never have been made the starter to begin with.

 

I almost feel sorry for him, but happy to see the Fish screwing up their new QB of the future.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Well, in this rumored scenario, we're back to point where Flores is still trying to win games despite the owner's mandate to start Tua.

 

But that still doesn't make sense because he went right up to the podium and said "Tua is still the starter." If you really, really think Fitz is your best chance to win a game you give yourself the time to make that argument in the building.

 

There is no way that I can get to where this is anything other than a mistake. Why it is a mistake depends on which scenario you play through.... but they all come back to the same end point. It was a mistake.

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But that still doesn't make sense because he went right up to the podium and said "Tua is still the starter." If you really, really think Fitz is your best chance to win a game you give yourself the time to make that argument in the building.

 

There is no way that I can get to where this is anything other than a mistake. Why it is a mistake depends on which scenario you play through.... but they all come back to the same end point. It was a mistake.

Obviously a mistake...on top of the fact that there seems to be a power struggle. The arrow is pointing down for Flores unless they fix that situation.

 

I'm sure they've already made all the arguments in the building, so it'll just be this waffling scenario until they draft another QB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I think Flores has let the idea that the Dolphins could make the playoffs cloud his judgement in what the plan is long term. If you go to Tua, that's it, you should be willing to risk losing a game. And if you aren't sure about him long term, it's even more reason you leave him in. You have to know what you have.

 

This.

[Mat68]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Possible. But still bad timing IMO. If Flores doesn't think Tua is the guy he needs to let that play out so that it is overwhelmingly obvious by the time they are transacting Houston's top 10 pick. Pulling him and throwing Fitz in to put him back in next week is still a mistake in my mind even I start from a position where Flores is unconvinced that Tua is either ready, or indeed, the long term guy. There is no scenario where I can talk myself into believing that was the right decision.

I think its made.  Half of his games passing for under 100 yards.  Fitz in 2 drives matched Tuas production.  I think if Cincy sneaks ahead of Jax for #2 in the draft you trade Texans and yourbown pick for Feilds.  Trade Tua and move along.  

[Fan in Chicago]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Tua should never have been made the starter to begin with.

 

I almost feel sorry for him, but happy to see the Fish screwing up their new QB of the future.

I agree with this point of view and felt that Tua didnt "earn" the starting job. Fitz was playing lights out and the team was competitive early part of the season. Sure gave the Bills a run for their money. Then comes the sudden decision to start him not spurred by any traditional Fitz slump. It is likely that Flores calculated at the beginning of the season that - "okay, Tua didnt earn the starting job in TC so I will start Fitz. Eventually the dude will go back to his throw-a-pick-at-the-wrong-time ways and I will start Tua. It will be great for optics and will make my employer happy.  " But, Fitz didnt slump and Flores was forced to start Tua anyway. Perhaps due to his (mis) calculation or due to undesirable pressure from the owner, the team has worked itself into a right mess. 

I am happy its happening to the Dolphins but I do feel bad for Tua. As I have typed numerous times before, I will always root for a league full of good QBs. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Fan in Chicago

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

I think its made.  Half of his games passing for under 100 yards.  Fitz in 2 drives matched Tuas production.  I think if Cincy sneaks ahead of Jax for #2 in the draft you trade Texans and yourbown pick for Feilds.  Trade Tua and move along.  

 

Even if I start there I can't get to a benching then immediate reinstatement being anything other than an error.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I agree with this point of view and felt that Tua didnt "earn" the starting job. Fitz was playing lights out and the team was competitive early part of the season. Sure gave the Bills a run for their money. Then comes the sudden decision to start him not spurred by any traditional Fitz slump. It is likely that Flores calculated at the beginning of the season that - "okay, Tua didnt earn the starting job in TC so I will start Fitz. Eventually the dude will go back to his throw-a-pick-at-the-wrong-time ways and I will start Tua. It will be great for optics and will make my employer happy.  " But, Fitz didnt slump and he was forced to start Tua anyway. Perhaps due to his (mis) calculation or due to undesirable pressure from the owner, the team has worked itself into a right mess. 

I am happy its happening to the Dolphins but I do feel bad for Tua. As I have typed numerous times before, I love a league full of good QBs. 

 

It's all internet rumors as far as I know, but word is it was mounting pressure from ownership to start Tua that caused the decision. We all know how that plays out!

[Don Otreply]

I’m starting to think Flores has seen what he needed to see, and the little guy is not what he may have hoped he was. This is my opinion. 

 

Every time I watch Tua throw the ball he appears to have to use his entire body to get it down field, even on shorter throws, to me Tua looks limited physically, and it’s not just that he is short, Russell Wilson is short, nuff said there, but Tua is physically little by NFL QB standards, unlike Russell Wilson who is not,  he, Tua appears to lack the natural strength that, say a certain Josh Allen has in abundance.
 

His small body imo is just not built for the punishment it is going to receive in the NFL, and we all know that every D knows he is little and has already been broken, in a noticeable fashion,  wrist ankle, and especially his  hip. Its just a matter of time for him to be helped off the field. 
 

 

[Big Gun]

15 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Terrible coaching to mess with the kids confidence this early in his career. 

There was speculation that Miami wanted to see if Tua had the goods or not because of Trevor Lawrence. Miami has 2 first round picks and were thought to maybe use them in a package deal to move up and get Lawrence should Tua not be any good, but they needed to find that out first, hence why Flores hand was forced and Fitzy benched. Sounds plausible but who knows.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I think Flores has let the idea that the Dolphins could make the playoffs cloud his judgement in what the plan is long term. If you go to Tua, that's it, you should be willing to risk losing a game. And if you aren't sure about him long term, it's even more reason you leave him in. You have to know what you have.

Yes and this was never a short term move, so why not give him the experience trying to dig himself out of a hole on the road? They were only down 10, were playing a 3 win team and have a good defense ... theoretically it is a great situation for his development and still a decent chance to win the game 

[Wayne Cubed]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes and this was never a short term move, so why not give him the experience trying to dig himself out of a hole on the road? They were only down 10, were playing a 3 win team and have a good defense ... theoretically it is a great situation for his development and still a decent chance to win the game 

 

Yea, I don't get it, it's just one game.... one loss. It's almost like Flores thought the season and playoffs depended on the win. What's more important long term, getting into the playoffs this season or Tua's development? I can only guess he's thinking getting to the playoffs helps him as a coach?

[GoBills808]

Flores got caught looking at standings and made a bad call. He's a new coach. It happens. 

[billybob71]

jets gonna get their first win next week

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Why is it not their pick ? Meaning that can just take a flyer on the Texans pick. Wow I would think they feel the pick post trade is part of their future and really important. 

 

I meant more so that the quality of the pick being not tied to their teams record makes it so that they can make win now moves for their team and still have access to a top 5 pick. The Texans win today does put a damper on that pick but the Texans still are tied for the 4th worst record in the league.

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, billybob71 said:

jets gonna get their first win next week

 

If it's Tua vs Sam, I think the Jets take this one. 

 

Gore came out and said he can't go out like this, in regards to 0-16, I think they'll rally around that.

[syhuang]

Maybe Tua now realizes playing QB at NFL is indeed a lot harder as he originally expected. 😉

 

 

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, High Football IQ said:

I won't be surprised if Tua comes out and has a career game against the Jets this week (which still won't say much given the it's the Jets).

 

This kid was one of most dominant players in college football history and it's very dangerous to write him off after his first bad game.

 

Either way 5 career starts is nowhere close to a sufficient body of work and most experts (and Bills fans) wrote Josh Allen off after almost 2 full NFL season, including myself.

I totally agree to write off Tua after five games is foolish. The JA comparisons are not the same. JA was panned by 2/3 of the media. Before the hip media had Tua as the 2nd coming of Manning. As far as his college performance. He played on the most talented team in college for four years. With multiple #1 draft choices to throw or hand to.

 

The current eye test shows some kinks but he needs time and confidence. Clearly he’s not ready for a playoff run. Is the decision based on 1 wanting to win now ?2 in response to Burrow/ Herbert being good now? 3 A directive from the owner?  If they think he’s better than Herbert long term they will stay with him and not draft another #1 qb. That draft was 6 months ago with the same decision makers in place. It’s not like Rosen so I deduct they do not draft a QB and they have stated as much. 

[blacklabel]

They probably should've just stuck it out with Fitz for the season because Tua ain't ready. 

[prissythecat]

2 hours ago, High Football IQ said:

I won't be surprised if Tua comes out and has a career game against the Jets this week (which still won't say much given the it's the Jets).

 

This kid was one of most dominant players in college football history and it's very dangerous to write him off after his first bad game.

 

Either way 5 career starts is nowhere close to a sufficient body of work and most experts (and Bills fans) wrote Josh Allen off after almost 2 full NFL season, including myself.

 

Was Tua dominant or was Alabama dominant?   Tebow was also a dominant college player in his time and set quite a few records as I recall.  However ,  He played on a team that was miles ahead of most other teams in terms of talent.   He also had an odd hitch to his delivery .  Tua also has a hitch but his is not as bad.  But I think its still a problem.  He seems to get the ball out noticeably slower.

 

Also,  why should we trust your assessment of college QBs when you  proclaimed Darnold as the best QB from the 2018 draft class last year lol.

[Manther]

17 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They have the Texans pick, which is a possible top 5 pick, i think they want to know what they have in Tua before making a decision to get another QB with that pick. 

I think it is that simple.  Maybe they feel they have enough information to make that decision now.  So, they can play Fitz knowing what they have with Tua going into the draft.  

 

PS.  GREAT win by the Texans for multiple reasons, go Bills!

[dorquemada]

30 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

Was Tua dominant or was Alabama dominant?   Tebow was also a dominant college player in his time and set quite a few records as I recall.  However ,  He played on a team that was miles ahead of most other teams in terms of talent.   He also had an odd hitch to his delivery .  Tua also has a hitch but his is not as bad.  But I think its still a problem.  He seems to get the ball out noticeably slower.

 

Also,  why should we trust your assessment of college QBs when you  proclaimed Darnold as the best QB from the 2018 draft class last year lol.

 

Tua was dominant.  But, before him, Jalen Hurts was dominant some/most of the time too.

 

The real issue for Tua is that he's way more tentative now than he ever was in college, and i'm perfectly willing to chalk that up to his pretty awful injury.  In fact, that injury was strange because it seemed to be much worse than warranted based on the hit.  If I had to guess, he's gonna have a short career, and it's going to end by a medium hit by a linebacker that most other QB's would just shake off.

 

 

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He doesn't move well.........there were plays where MOST young QB's can get away from the rush or get to the edge running the ball.......but Tua........who used to be quick and fast.......couldn't.

 

Maybe he needs to start playing Orton-Ball?  Camp out in the pocket and if the pressure gets to him, dive to the ground.I

 

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Fitz is just one of the best humans to ever play the game. 

 

I'm going with Roger Staubach on this one.

Edited November 23, 2020 by reddogblitz

[QLBillsFan]

Alabama had the #1 recruiting class while Tua was QB. Current QB will also likely be a first round pick. I think it’s less injury and more arm strength and nfl D coaching along with speed of the game. Can he better a decent QB, sure. But he has a long way to go. Had he gone to SD the talent on O was significantly better and he may have ramped up quicker. Having said that i think Herbert would be starting in Miami. 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, QLBillsFan said:

I totally agree to write off Tua after five games is foolish. The JA comparisons are not the same. JA was panned by 2/3 of the media. Before the hip media had Tua as the 2nd coming of Manning. As far as his college performance. He played on the most talented team in college for four years. With multiple #1 draft choices to throw or hand to.

 

The current eye test shows some kinks but he needs time and confidence. Clearly he’s not ready for a playoff run. Is the decision based on 1 wanting to win now ?2 in response to Burrow/ Herbert being good now? 3 A directive from the owner?  If they think he’s better than Herbert long term they will stay with him and not draft another #1 qb. That draft was 6 months ago with the same decision makers in place. It’s not like Rosen so I deduct they do not draft a QB and they have stated as much. 

Imagine Josh in college with Bamas skill talent 

[QLBillsFan]

Lawrence like production. 

[BillsFanSD]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Imagine Josh in college with Bamas skill talent 

Josh wouldn't have fallen to #7 in that scenario, so no I'd prefer not to imagine this thank you very much.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, High Football IQ said:

I won't be surprised if Tua comes out and has a career game against the Jets this week (which still won't say much given the it's the Jets).

 

This kid was one of most dominant players in college football history and it's very dangerous to write him off after his first bad game.

 

Either way 5 career starts is nowhere close to a sufficient body of work and most experts (and Bills fans) wrote Josh Allen off after almost 2 full NFL season, including myself.

 

I know you do a lot of thinking and have a lot of concerns but consider these points.

 

1.  IF there is ONE GAME that Gase would want to win this season it's the upcoming Jets/Dolphins game in New Jersey.

2.  Greggo just seen and now has tape that Tua can crumble under pressure.  I'm sure he will dial it up.

3.  Tua's "honeymoon" is over.  He now has pressure on performing quickly to avoid another "hook" or disappointing losses.

4.  The Dolphin as a team/fans now will have to decide IF Tua's development is worth risking a playoff possibility.

 

As horrible as the Jets are it could easily be a tough close game.

[CapeBreton]

18 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Gotta think phins might be thinking herbert was the pick. 

At the time, Dolphins fans would have rioted if they picked Herbert over Tua. Everyone seemed to hate on Herbert pre-draft, even Chargers fans hated the pick. 

[QLBillsFan]

The experts had it as a toss up. He’s JA ahead of schedule with better weapons. AFC West is going to be the best division in football for a good stretch. 

[Just Joshin']

4 hours ago, Big Gun said:

There was speculation that Miami wanted to see if Tua had the goods or not because of Trevor Lawrence. Miami has 2 first round picks and were thought to maybe use them in a package deal to move up and get Lawrence should Tua not be any good, but they needed to find that out first, hence why Flores hand was forced and Fitzy benched. Sounds plausible but who knows.

If Lawrence is as advertised the team in the #1 spot would never trade out.  Fields maybe, Lawrence not.

[Just Joshin']

57 minutes ago, CapeBreton said:

At the time, Dolphins fans would have rioted if they picked Herbert over Tua. Everyone seemed to hate on Herbert pre-draft, even Chargers fans hated the pick. 

Many fans hated the Allen pick - not a good way to pick a QB.

[QLBillsFan]

Exactly Tebow is great example. Johnny M as well. Beane picking JA looks pretty darn good right now even if just vs his draft class. Long term would you want JA vs any of them including Baker and Lamar? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

the GMFB crew love them some Flores, but overall disapprove:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/schrager-dolphins-playing-with-fire-by-benching-tua-in-fourth-quarter

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

the GMFB crew love them some Flores, but overall disapprove:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/schrager-dolphins-playing-with-fire-by-benching-tua-in-fourth-quarter

I’ll try and cut Brandt some slack because he’s been trumpeting our bills since last year but wow did he cross borders with the quickness. Since about 2 weeks ago he’s been crowning Tua and the fins in the East. 

5 hours ago, High Football IQ said:

I won't be surprised if Tua comes out and has a career game against the Jets this week (which still won't say much given the it's the Jets).

 

This kid was one of most dominant players in college football history and it's very dangerous to write him off after his first bad game.

 

Either way 5 career starts is nowhere close to a sufficient body of work and most experts (and Bills fans) wrote Josh Allen off after almost 2 full NFL season, including myself.

Don’t you dare dry and lump us in with you. Don’t freakin do it. 

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

Tua was dominant.  But, before him, Jalen Hurts was dominant some/most of the time too.

 

The real issue for Tua is that he's way more tentative now than he ever was in college, and i'm perfectly willing to chalk that up to his pretty awful injury.  In fact, that injury was strange because it seemed to be much worse than warranted based on the hit.  If I had to guess, he's gonna have a short career, and it's going to end by a medium hit by a linebacker that most other QB's would just shake off.

 

 

 

Or is he way more tentative because his bevy of #1 pick WR's in college don't have 5 yards of separation on every dropback with every player running wide open doesn't exist in the NFL?  2 yards is wide open in the NFL and you have to be able to fit the ball in there and make the throws.  

 

I am not writing him off, but I don't see anything that scares me AT ALL in regards to him being in the AFC East and having to face him twice a year.  Allen is simply better than he is.

Edited November 23, 2020 by matter2003

[dorquemada]

33 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Exactly Tebow is great example. Johnny M as well. Beane picking JA looks pretty darn good right now even if just vs his draft class. Long term would you want JA vs any of them including Baker and Lamar? 

 

yeah there's an utterly ridiculous article on ESPN+

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30343834/ranking-nfl-franchise-quarterbacks-how-2017-2021-draft-classes-stack-why-trevor-lawrence-high-list

 

The net is that they have TREVOR LAWRENCE ranked #2 behind Patrick Mahomes for NFL franchise QBs.  A guy who hasnt played a down in the NFL, and has the benefit of playing on a stacked college team is going to be better than Josh Allen.  Allen is #7 on this dumb list for what it's worth

 

[QLBillsFan]

I’m gonna guess Tua was #2 or #3 last year 😂. And JA was about 50🤷🏻‍♂️🤓