Morse not starting was a "football decision" per McD

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think that is where I am Hap. I do think when McDermott talked yesterday what he meant about a football decision was be sensible, take your time and think about the final 7 games not just the one we played Sunday. However, that question absolutely looms large. I have felt since the middle of last season there was an argument that Feliciano is our best center and that he his pass protection issues show up less at center than when he plays at guard. But the guard situation is such that at this moment I think Morse at C and Feliciano at G is probably the best combo we have in those two spots.

 

Worth saying in all this McDermott and Beane come from a "center is king" culture in Carolina. It is a position that the guys they learned from have always really valued. It wouldn't be a complete shock if they keep the guy they think is the best center they have at center and if that is Feliciano could they even try Morse at guard?

 

Whatever they do I do think they need to try and settle on a 5. The chopping and changing inside is part of the run game struggle IMO. No cohesion or continuity in there.

 

Eh, kind of.  It doesn't help.

 

I think it has more to do with fundamentals of blocking technique.  I think the Bills really really wanted Josh Allen and the passing game to take a step, so that was the overwhelming focus of training camp and has been the overwhelming focus of most practice during the week. 

 

Except for the NE game, where magically, against a run D that was previously good, suddenly we could run.  Daboll let it out that on Friday that week we practiced 50 snaps and 2 were pass plays.  Feliciano said they had a couple practices that were like "training camp practices", focused on footwork and technique.

 

Lo and behold, the passing game has taken a step to the point where 274, 275, 296 yds is now "Josh Allen had a bad game", but our run game sucks.  Imma take a guess that if I were a fly on the practice field, I would see that an ordinary week's practice is very heavily pass-focused.

 

I think the Bills may need to "think outside the box" a little bit about their practice strategies.  Josh needs the snaps diagnosing defensive looks for the pass game.  The OL needs the snaps learning to work together and block smoothly and efficiently.  This is a defined problem.  Defined problems usually have definable solutions.

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW, in Daboll's presser he said "they've played a couple of games together and that's the direction we decided to go with for this game.  That doesn't mean anything for this week or the week after that".  He said it was a decision to maintain continuity on the OL: "just have some continuity going with those guys, they've done a good job, and we'll see where we go from that". 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Could it simply be that the Bills had to field 8 o-linemen to get to 48 (as opposed to 47), and that Morse is the eighth and last guy they have? It's not a good look for McDermott to come out and say "he is recovering from a concussion but we would have played him if we had to." That said, he could be an emergency substitution if need be even though the coaches wanted to hold him back. Think about how many went down vs. Seattle. The last thing you want is Dawson Knox playing left tackle or guard in the fourth quarter. 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The last thing you want is Dawson Knox playing. left tackle or guard in the fourth quarter. 

 

This is pretty much where I am with him at this point.

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I think that if he said that, it would lead to a lot more questions from the reporters.

 

Why? They know he has a concussion and a history of them. Say we want to get him healthy and the bye gives him more time. Who is gonna question that?

 

Saying what he said leads to more questions.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[Mat68]

I think this has more to do with Feliciano than Morse.  Mango brings a nastiness to the oline.  I believe he said right now center is easier to play than guard while still recovering from his pec injury.  Hopefully, after the bye he will be comfortable playing guard.  The best 4 are Dawkins, Williams, Feliciano and Morse.  Mango at guard improves the run game.  Creates more push and movement up front.

[TheFunPolice]

When it comes to concussions you've got to be very careful what you say and how you handle it. 

 

There's "healthy enough to play" and then there's "healthy."

 

Saying you are going to save a guy aside and let him heal up for the stretch run is a slap in the face to the guys who are out there banged up and trying to go. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I think this has more to do with Feliciano than Morse.  Mango brings a nastiness to the oline.  I believe he said right now center is easier to play than guard while still recovering from his pec injury.  Hopefully, after the bye he will be comfortable playing guard.  The best 4 are Dawkins, Williams, Feliciano and Morse.  Mango at guard improves the run game.  Creates more push and movement up front.

Really? The run game was terrible the last two games.

[cDAVIS]

17 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

When will people realize McDermott is an issue with this team?

When will people realize this team was ***** the last 25 years until McDermott? 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Eh, kind of.  It doesn't help.

 

I think it has more to do with fundamentals of blocking technique.  I think the Bills really really wanted Josh Allen and the passing game to take a step, so that was the overwhelming focus of training camp and has been the overwhelming focus of most practice during the week. 

 

Except for the NE game, where magically, against a run D that was previously good, suddenly we could run.  Daboll let it out that on Friday that week we practiced 50 snaps and 2 were pass plays.  Feliciano said they had a couple practices that were like "training camp practices", focused on footwork and technique.

 

Lo and behold, the passing game has taken a step to the point where 274, 275, 296 yds is now "Josh Allen had a bad game", but our run game sucks.  Imma take a guess that if I were a fly on the practice field, I would see that an ordinary week's practice is very heavily pass-focused.

 

I think the Bills may need to "think outside the box" a little bit about their practice strategies.  Josh needs the snaps diagnosing defensive looks for the pass game.  The OL needs the snaps learning to work together and block smoothly and efficiently.  This is a defined problem.  Defined problems usually have definable solutions.

 

The Patriots game run success was largely down to the way they defended IMO. They used a similar D we did against KC. They begged us to keep running it. I do suspect that practice is slanted towards throwing it and they want to be a pass first offense, no doubt.

 

On technique - agreed that is the major issue but the oline, almost more than anywhere else on the field is where the nuances of technique matter most.... and not just your own... but the nuances of the guy next to you. Cohesion does matter. I need to know not only what assignment the guy next to me is playing but also exactly how he plays it. Does he get out of his stance early, what angles does he tend to take... all those little things really add up on the online. I'm not suggesting that having the same 5 is the cure to all our ills in running the ball...… fundamentally the Bills have prioritised pass blockers (I'd say other than Feliciano, Ford and probably Boettger every other Olineman on the roster is a better pass blocker than run blocker) and have worked to refine their pass blocking. But it is a myriad of factors.... when you add some sloppy base technique to possible lack of emphasis in practice to constant changes in personnel (especially inside) to running backs who aren't real explosive hole hitters..... the whole thing just becomes a bit of a grind. And that is how it has felt. When an area struggles as bad as our run offense (and similar applied to our run defense) it is rarely just one thing.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why? They know he has a concussion and a history of them. Say we want to get him healthy and the bye gives him more time. Who is gonna question that?

 

Saying what he said leads to more questions.

 

Well it didn't lead to more reporters questions.

[Mat68]

25 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Really? The run game was terrible the last two games.

When was Feliciano at guard?

[DCbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Why not just say we want to make sure he’s fully healthy before putting him on the field? They’ve said it before and it would end all discussion. He seemed to go out of his way to say it wasn’t injury related.

 

I really wanted Morse when we signed him but after going back and watching all-22 from last year I would be fine with moving on from him and getting someone that’s more physical. He’s a solid pass blocker but meh in run game

Who knows what McD is thinking at these pressers.  Morse has been a disappointment for me as well.  Maybe they're moving on from him after the season.  He seems to get penalized a fair amount as well.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

When was Feliciano at guard?

I thought you were saying that Morse was benched because Feliciano brings more nastiness to the run game. I think I misinterpreted. The team is better with both out there. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He probably just wanted to see how certain players played heading into the bye week so they can come out of the bye with their best 5 on the field. Morse likely is at starting center coming out of the bye.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

For anyone who follows and understands o line play, was benching Morse justified based on his play?

 

To me it seemed like he was doing descent, but I’m not an o line expert by any means.

[Peter]

This is not good if Morse is not good enough to start.

 

Highest Paid Centers

[Mat68]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought you were saying that Morse was benched because Feliciano brings more nastiness to the run game. I think I misinterpreted. The team is better with both out there. 

Right.  I was saying, I believe the coaching staff likes the nastiness Felicano brings to the line.  Taking into account the NE game they want Feliciano on the feild.  With his pec injury, playing center is easier for him at the moment.  Morse I think didnt have a full week of practice so they went with Mango.  Now after the Bye the run game is improved by Feliciano at guard.  Him paired with Dawkins or Williams should create a solid a good combo to run behind.  Him playing Lg fits best with Allen rolling out right.  Bringing some balance to the offense will make it harder to defend.  

[Peca27]

McDermott carefully handled the question and was correct in his response.  Me thinks you can't admit to dressing a player with concussion issues that you think shouldn't / couldn't be out there physically, even if your intent is to provide the player with an extra week of rest / healing out of an abundance of caution.  I imagine the intent of the injury rules are to dress players that are physically able to play in the game without restriction, especially as it relates to concussions. 

 

McDermott was playing it both ways with Morse in my opinion (i.e. he was cleared medically and available, but would only be put into the game in an emergency as a method to give him another week of rest to get his brain right).  McDermott just couldn't admit that.      

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

For anyone who follows and understands o line play, was benching Morse justified based on his play?

 

To me it seemed like he was doing descent, but I’m not an o line expert by any means.

 

I don't think it had to do with Morse's play at all and McDermott was very specific saying that Morse was not "benched".

 

Morse had been out two weeks and only back for 3 practices.  I think they were hoping that some continuity built the last 2 weeks in games and practice would help them run on O-line this week.

 

Not sure it worked out as they wanted, but the line played well enough the last 2 weeks that I understand why the Bills would want to give that continuity thing a try.

 

33 minutes ago, Peter said:

This is not good if Morse is not good enough to start.

 

Highest Paid Centers

 

Morse is good enough to start.  He started the first 8 games for a 5-2 team that was right up at the top of the league in passing.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think it had to do with Morse's play at all and McDermott was very specific saying that Morse was not "benched".

 

Morse had been out two weeks and only back for 3 practices.  I think they were hoping that some continuity built the last 2 weeks in games and practice would help them run on O-line this week.

 

Not sure it worked out as they wanted, but the line played well enough the last 2 weeks that I understand why the Bills would want to give that continuity thing a try.

 

 

Morse is good enough to start.  He started the first 8 games for a 5-2 team that was right up at the top of the league in passing.

 

Agreed. Especially when the other side of the game was another fortnight that they could give to a guy who has a history of concussions to recover from this latest one.

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think it had to do with Morse's play at all and McDermott was very specific saying that Morse was not "benched".

 

Morse had been out two weeks and only back for 3 practices.  I think they were hoping that some continuity built the last 2 weeks in games and practice would help them run on O-line this week.

 

Not sure it worked out as they wanted, but the line played well enough the last 2 weeks that I understand why the Bills would want to give that continuity thing a try.

 

 

Morse is good enough to start.  He started the first 8 games for a 5-2 team that was right up at the top of the league in passing.

 

I guess that is why McCoach sat him.  Hmmm.

 

P.S. I hope you are correct . . . but the news is not reassuring given the reported comments of McD especially after the contract they gave him.  His injury history (both before and after he became a Buffalo Bill) is not good.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Peter

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agreed. Especially when the other side of the game was another fortnight that they could give to a guy who has a history of concussions to recover from this latest one.

 

I could just be naive, but I tend to think McDermott and Daboll are both fairly straight shooters and when they say something, it's typically what they mean.  You can kind of tell when McDermott is prevaricating, he gets this look in his eyes. 

 

That's not to say that Morse getting extra time to heal and Feliciano getting an extra week at a position he says is "easier" on his pec didn't factor into it, but I believe "we think this line is our best line for this game" took primacy.

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I guess that is why McCoach sat him.  Hmmm.

 

It's what Daboll said pretty explicitly in his presser and McDermott a slightly vaguer variation

[Don Otreply]

Being MM has a concussion history an extended break from shots to the head, would be, by most, thought of as a good thing, again by most... 

 

People gotta find some use for their tin foil hats I guess...

 

Go Bills!!!

[Peter]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could just be naive, but I tend to think McDermott and Daboll are both fairly straight shooters and when they say something, it's typically what they mean.  You can kind of tell when McDermott is prevaricating, he gets this look in his eyes. 

 

That's not to say that Morse getting extra time to heal and Feliciano getting an extra week at a position he says is "easier" on his pec didn't factor into it, but I believe "we think this line is our best line for this game" took primacy.

 

It's what Daboll said pretty explicitly in his presser and McDermott a slightly vaguer variation

 

As Fairburn states, "Sean McDermott’s vague comments on Mitch Morse do a disservice to Morse and to the fans."

 

 

 

[Buffalo03]

19 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

How could anyone watch the Seattle game and think that O line played well?  McDermott has changed since he first got here and it's concerning. 

Did you watch the Cardinals game? Allen had plenty of time to throw consistently 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Well it didn't lead to more reporters questions.

Actually it did. They asked three times about Morse wanting more clarification. It’s also getting a lot of discussion on the radio shows.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[jlgarsh]

19 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s a very good point.  I was thinking along the lines of others that it’d make more sense to have Morse at center and Feliciano at OG.  But getting Morse completely healthy makes more sense.  My daughter got a concussion playing soccer 12 days ago and still is having headaches and light sensitivity.  The longer you can give concussion to heal, the better.  Glad they’re taking extra time with Morse. 

Hope she feels better soon! I got one in 9th grade gym class and was loopy for a couple weeks

[JGMcD2]

19 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I was typing this before your last response LOL. 

 

I highly, HIGHLY encourage you to actually watch the press conference with McDermott. 
 

There were 3 questions posed when it came to Morse and McDermott spent about 15 seconds total answering those questions. They were asked at the beginning, middle and end of the interview. 
 

I’m paraphrasing but here’s how it went 

 

First question was that he was active but didn’t
play, was he not healthy? This is around the 1:20 mark. 

McDermott responses by saying he was healthy, but it was a coach’s decision to not have him play this week, Mitch is a great player but they felt that they had momentum with the group from last week and wanted to see how they played together this week. Said they played well when Mitch went down and wanted to take a look at it one more week. 

 

Second question was someone clarifying the Morse question from earlier... they specifically asked if Morse was benched... this is around the 8:30 mark 

 

McDermott said he was NOT BENCHED. 
 

Quick follow up asked if Morse was still the starter. 
 

McDermott said the lineup is determined week to week... literally something McDermott says about every position group because he likes the idea of competition and maybe even the illusion of it. 
 

Final question around the 13:30 mark. Reporter asks if it was a disciplinary decision for something he did/did not do off-field or strictly a football decision. 
 

McDermott replied in 6 words and used the verbiage from the reporter.. “It was strictly a football decision.”

 

I think this is being read into... I mean really he spent like 30 seconds answering these 3 questions and they’re such vague answers and really aren’t answers outside of McDermott answers and we’re creating a controversy here. 

EDIT:

 

Look at all 3 comments.... he said the following 

 

A) Mitch is a good player 

B) We wanted to take one more week to look at this combination 

C) He was not benched 

D) We determine the lineup week to week

E) This relates to comment B about looking at the combination from last week... it wasn’t disciplinary it was a football decision

For everyone that’s not going to read the entire thread... this is a brief synopsis of the McDermott presser. 
 

The order the questions were asked, when they were asked and how McDermott responded. The OP and the folks on Twitter have been mixing and matching statements from McDermott out of order in order to create a story. 
 

There really is not a whole lot here. 

[Wayne Cubed]

30 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

As Fairburn states, "Sean McDermott’s vague comments on Mitch Morse do a disservice to Morse and to the fans."

 

 

 

Man they would really hate doing Belichick interviews then... he’s vague and purposefully obtuse.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

For anyone who follows and understands o line play, was benching Morse justified based on his play?

 

To me it seemed like he was doing descent, but I’m not an o line expert by any means.

 

In the big picture - it was better to sit him until after the BYE week. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

As Fairburn states, "Sean McDermott’s vague comments on Mitch Morse do a disservice to Morse and to the fans."

 

That's his opinion and he's entitled to it, of course.

My perception, which may be worth the powder to blow it to hell, is that Fairburn asked questions that sounded like trying to confirm a narrative rather than clarify

 

When McDermott scents a narrative, he curls up behind an impenetrable armadillo shell of coach speak and there's no cracking it

 

I didn't think McDermott and Daboll's answers were that vague

 

This is a really good summary:

 

This is basically what McDermott said:

A) Mitch is a good player 

B) We wanted to take one more week to look at this combination 

C) He was not benched 

D) We determine the lineup week to week

E) It wasn’t disciplinary it was a football decision

 

That seems pretty clear-cut to me.  The guy who thought they were "vague answers", Fairburn, is the one who came in with "Let me be sure I'm clear on this...are you saying Morse was benched?" and so forth.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Mitch had to do an emergency Sub for Toby on This Is Us.

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

It may have been said in the 8 pages, but here is what I think:

 

After his 5th concussion, I think Morse plans to retire. That’s why they gave Mongo an extended look and Morse and extra week. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I gave up trying to read through an 8 page thread to see if this was mentioned, but in Fairburns column in the Athletic he commented:

 

It also wouldn’t be a surprise if McDermott would rather insinuate Morse had been benched than delve into the concussion situation. McDermott routinely defers to the protocol and declines an answer whenever asked about a player who is dealing with a concussion.

 

Sounds like this is McD's standard reply with anything related to concussions.

 

Also in todays BN it mentioned:

 

With Ford inactive because of an ankle injury, that left the Bills with just eight offensive linemen, including Morse.

 

That would have meant if they had sat out Morse, they couldn't have activated anyone else as the new rule this year requires you to have a minimum of  8 O-lineman active.  Let than that you lose the extra active spot.  Guess figured dress him in an emergency he could play, but only in an emergency. Think this may have been the only game this season where no lineman got hurt?

[3rdand12]

9 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Being MM has a concussion history an extended break from shots to the head, would be, by most, thought of as a good thing, again by most... 

 

People gotta find some use for their tin foil hats I guess...

 

Go Bills!!!

McD can frame this anyways he wishes, such as "best for the Team" it still rings true if he is protecting Mitch .
I truly respect this Coach and what he has built. He looks out. and still strives for competition to build upon.
so it it could be all the above and still be true

 Best five and health concerns.

 Go  Bills

[Bob in STL]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:50 PM, Back2Buff said:

 

His defense is awful and we beat awful teams.  If you think being average is ok, then yes, he is not an issue.  He ain't winning anything in this league.

This team was terrible for 17 years.  McDermott turned it around during a rebuild, not after one.  
 

I don’t get the criticism.  The “we beat awful teams” comment is ridiculous.  We play  the schedule we are given like every other team.  We deal with injuries like every other team.  

[without a drought]

Definitely more of a football decision than a hockey decision. 

[machine gun kelly]

My interpretation is they want him down the stretch and I believe since college and high school, he’s had 8 concussions.  An extra couple of weeks could mean a healthier center down the road.

[RyanC883]

On 11/16/2020 at 11:22 PM, YoloinOhio said:

He’s never even played the Guard position. 

 

still, could be better than what we have?   It had to be to give Morse another week off. The line was bad Sunday in the 2nd half. 

[billsfan89]

I think they were saving Mitch from himself. Give Mitch an extra week to heal up and go into the Chargers game with 3 weeks of rest after a concussion. Mitch might have been medically cleared but that doesn't mean a coach shouldn't exercise caution when he has a group playing well. Slide Mitch back in at center and move Mongo to RG.