Ford and Williams playing well as a duo at RG and RT, per Joe Buscaglia

[whatdrought]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

If him and Williams are the best pairing on the right side, then you should build chemistry

 

But Williams is a stop Gap and we need a right tackle for the future

 

I think Cody Ford could be a good guard, but his tackle play at Oklahoma was much better. And a man with that size and athleticism sounds like a great person to groom at right tackle

 

I don’t disagree with you on the overall premise, but two things:

 

1- Williams is only 27, and while he’s on a 1 yr deal, he could be resigned and isn’t necessarily a stop gap. 
 

2- There’s a fine balance between living through growing pains and holding the team back. Not saying Ford would hold the team back at T, but if they think Williams/Ford is the best chance to win, I support that. I think it can be done in a way that helps grow Ford as a player and still keep an eye out for him at T. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

I don’t disagree with you on the overall premise, but two things:

 

1- Williams is only 27, and while he’s on a 1 yr deal, he could be resigned and isn’t necessarily a stop gap. 
 

2- There’s a fine balance between living through growing pains and holding the team back. Not saying Ford would hold the team back at T, but if they think Williams/Ford is the best chance to win, I support that. I think it can be done in a way that helps grow Ford as a player and still keep an eye out for him at T. 

Despite what a lot of people think, Ford actually had some good games last year at right tackle. He wasn't complete trash

 

And I didn't realize Williams was only 27. That's actually young

Edited August 24, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Logic]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He may eventually become a good RT, but he could be an excellent RG much sooner.  Keep him there, again, for this year at least.

 

 

Feliciano doesn't even enter into the equation anytime soon, if at all this season.  And they had 9 OL on the opening day roster last year.  I thought they'd keep Winters over Boehm anyway, but if they keep 9 it's moot.

He's likely to be ready to return to action by, say, week 5 of this season. They're not going to put him on IR or cut him. At some point in the first half of the season, he will factor into the discussion.

As for Winters vs Boehm, I could be wrong, but I believe Boehm has more experience playing center than Brian Winters. Backup interior players' chances of making the roster are higher if they can play multiple positions. Neither of us have seen either man play a snap in camp this year, though, so we're both just guessing.

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I don’t disagree with you on the overall premise, but two things:

 

1- Williams is only 27, and while he’s on a 1 yr deal, he could be resigned and isn’t necessarily a stop gap. 
 

2- There’s a fine balance between living through growing pains and holding the team back. Not saying Ford would hold the team back at T, but if they think Williams/Ford is the best chance to win, I support that. I think it can be done in a way that helps grow Ford as a player and still keep an eye out for him at T. 

This.

I've seen a few different people point out in this thread that Williams is on a one-year deal. If he plays well at RT, why wouldn't the Bills try to re-sign him? Unless he's an All-Pro again, I doubt he'd break the bank. He may also WANT to stick around and play for McDermott/Beane, with whom he has experience, and with the Bills' top notch medical facilities. Such a thing would not be unprecedented. We saw it with Quinton Spain this offseason.

I suppose we're getting ahead of ourselves, though. If we can get a good year out of Darryl Williams, based on what we're paying him, it'll be a real win. Besides, if he DOES beat out Ford to start at RT, everyone should rest assured that it's because he outplayed Ford at that position. You know the Bills would prefer that the player they drafted to play right tackle start at that position. If he doesn't, it's because he was beat out for the job, fair and square.

 

[Virgil]

Don’t you dare flirt with me 

[MJS]

Good to hear. It would be huge if those two locked up the right side.

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Ford on DT and Williams on DE subtle way of saying their positions without actually saying it.

Not subtle enough for McD, I imagine.

[Doc]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

We have two veteran starting right tackles on our roster

 

Again most right tackles don't even start till they're 26 27 years old. Cody Ford has a lot of time to learn the right tackle position. 

 

No one is saying that he'll never play RT.  Just that right now, he's best-served at RG and Williams is best-served at RT.  And as has been mentioned, Williams could very well be re-signed if he plays up to his potential and isn't looking for crazy money.

 

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

He's likely to be ready to return to action by, say, week 5 of this season. They're not going to put him on IR or cut him. At some point in the first half of the season, he will factor into the discussion.

 

Week 5 isn't happening.  And they'll probably put him on IR-return.

[jwhit34]

Lots of good point made here. Williams' age is at the top of the list. Also remember the Bills started Howard Ballard at RG the first year. 

 

The state of the O Line is probably the best example of why Beane's approach is so good. They have a lot of options because they brought in so many guys who can play. Drafting Ford in the 2nd round alone gives them so much leeway. If he's a 1st round pick you may be more inclined to force him in at RT because of draft status. If his best position is guard so be it. And bringing in Williams on a low risk contract opens up great possibilities. If he pans out he's not going to demand Dawkins money, they can do a 3 year deal a la John Brown and Cole Beasley and see what happens.

 

Meanwhile, he brings in Winters and if the Ford-Williams combo works on the right side he has the option to have a proven starter as the interior backup guy or go younger (Bates/Boettger). And he still has Feliciano. What a great a spot to be in. That's how you build a roster.

 

[Don Otreply]

21 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

Not subtle enough for McD, I imagine.

You got that right, Sean will likely not be pleased with that description.

 

 Go Bills!!!

[DJB]

So happy Ford is playing guard. Its where he should have been from the beginning. 

 

I think we see a big 2nd year leap from Ford this year!

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Despite what a lot of people think, Ford actually had some good games last year at right tackle. He wasn't complete trash

 

And I didn't realize Williams was only 27. That's actually young

 
I think he had an up and down season. He was consistently the weak spot on our line though, so if they can fix that while filling the Mongo gap, I’ll take it.

 

yeah, he was rock solid top 5 RT but had some injuries and got stuck in Carolina’s terrible OL room. If he can recover (and we have a reputation of getting hurt players back to where they need to be) and if the coaching is good (which it really seems to be) there’s no reason not to think he could be very solid for us, with the potential for being amazing. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

If him and Williams are the best pairing on the right side, then you should build chemistry

 

But Williams is a stop Gap and we need a right tackle for the future

 

I think Cody Ford could be a good guard, but his tackle play at Oklahoma was much better. And a man with that size and athleticism sounds like a great person to groom at right tackle

Williams is 27 year old and has flashed pro bowl talent at right tackle....the big thing with him was the previous injury

 

If he is healed.....and playing well.....why would you not just resign him and solve your RT issue?

 

We are always looking for the next best thing at positions.....if a player hammers out a spot and isnt old we should be retaining that player and moving onto the next potential hole on the team

[JoPoy88]

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Williams is 27 year old and has flashed pro bowl talent at right tackle....the big thing with him was the previous injury

 

If he is healed.....and playing well.....why would you not just resign him and solve your RT issue?

 

We are always looking for the next best thing at positions.....if a player hammers out a spot and isnt old we should be retaining that player and moving onto the next potential hole on the team

williams looking back to form is great news. Ford obviously slides to guard if williams has been that impressive. I was wrong then in assuming a starting role was there for Winters on that side, I’d thought he would definitely be penciled in as starting RG given the speed that they signed him. Good depth still I suppose. Even with the feliciano injury, OL still looks at least semi-deep? Idk one or two more injuries may be trouble.

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

williams looking back to form is great news. Ford obviously slides to guard if williams has been that impressive. I was wrong then in assuming a starting role was there for Winters on that side, I’d thought he would definitely be penciled in as starting RG given the speed that they signed him. Good depth still I suppose. Even with the feliciano injury, OL still looks at least semi-deep? Idk one or two more injuries may be trouble.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they had them compete and Ford looked the best at RG.  And I'm sure Epenesa steam-rolling Winters on that one play didn't help him any...

[JoPoy88]

38 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they had them compete and Ford looked the best at RG.  And I'm sure Epenesa steam-rolling Winters on that one play didn't help him any...

Yeah I saw that epenesa clip too in that goalline drill and woof. Winters got owned. 

[GoBills808]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

 

Reporters are forbidden from listing where players are lining up or where they fall on the depth chart this year.

 

This, then, was actually Buscaglia’s way of getting around that rule without actually breaking it.

Or they pulled the guard.

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah he has a higher floor at guard. You can mask weaknesses

 

But we haven't developed the right tackle here in a decade and he's our best chance in the next 2 to 5 years

 

Most tackles peak at 28 to 29 years old. He has tons of game to grow

If Williams starts at RT and plays reasonably well, he is our rt tackle going forward.  The guy isn't that old.  Just entering his prime actually based on your numbers..

[Buffalo_Stampede]

53 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Yeah I saw that epenesa clip too in that goalline drill and woof. Winters got owned. 

He got his foot stepped on.

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

He's likely to be ready to return to action by, say, week 5 of this season. They're not going to put him on IR or cut him. At some point in the first half of the season, he will factor into the discussion.

As for Winters vs Boehm, I could be wrong, but I believe Boehm has more experience playing center than Brian Winters. Backup interior players' chances of making the roster are higher if they can play multiple positions. Neither of us have seen either man play a snap in camp this year, though, so we're both just guessing.

This.

I've seen a few different people point out in this thread that Williams is on a one-year deal. If he plays well at RT, why wouldn't the Bills try to re-sign him? Unless he's an All-Pro again, I doubt he'd break the bank. He may also WANT to stick around and play for McDermott/Beane, with whom he has experience, and with the Bills' top notch medical facilities. Such a thing would not be unprecedented. We saw it with Quinton Spain this offseason.

I suppose we're getting ahead of ourselves, though. If we can get a good year out of Darryl Williams, based on what we're paying him, it'll be a real win. Besides, if he DOES beat out Ford to start at RT, everyone should rest assured that it's because he outplayed Ford at that position. You know the Bills would prefer that the player they drafted to play right tackle start at that position. If he doesn't, it's because he was beat out for the job, fair and square.

 

Best case scenario, he turns out to be a better version of Spain at RT and we can resign him to a similar 3 year deal. That would make me feel a lot better about the OL.  He was pretty good a couple years ago.  Maybe it just took longer than expected to return to form

[Logic]

45 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Or they pulled the guard.

 

Maybe so. 

 

There’s also this video, so we know that Ford IS getting work at RG.

 

We have so little to go on this year, but based on Joe B’s comment, McDermott’s comment about wanting to know Ford’s position (why even say that if there’s not a possibility it’s different than last year?), and this video, I’m sticking to the hunch that Ford is a real threat to start at RG.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/MatthewFairburn/status/1296455380055318531

[GunnerBill]

While Joe is sticking to the protocol if not saying positions I am not at all surprised that Ford at guard and Williams at tackle looks good. That is the strongest right side combo we have in my opinion. 

[BillsVet]

 

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Williams is on a one year contract. This would give Ford more time to develop while seeing from guard position how another player players OT position.  He got some of that year watching Nsekhe.

 

How much time should a guy you had a 1st round grade on need to develop?  If anything, perhaps he needs time to recover from the torn labrum surgery he had during the off-season.

 

Someone earlier talked about whether Ford has the feet to play outside and I tend to agree.  If not, he kicks in to play RG which is the least important position on the OL.  You play on the strong side, and typically pull less than the LG.  

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Eh Nscheke outplayed him consistently....and it wasn’t even close. 

 

Disagree on that. It was pretty close. Ty was not great at all. Ty's best games and Cody's best games were a wash. Ty's worst games were a higher floor than Cody's worst games but neither of them approached solid. 

[billspro]

If Williams is back to form we will have a top 10 line

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

If Williams starts at RT and plays reasonably well, he is our rt tackle going forward.  The guy isn't that old.  Just entering his prime actually based on your numbers..

I honestly didn't realize he was 27. If he could stay healthy he definitely has a chance to regain form and be a good player in this league

[Turk71]

If Ford and Williams are a good combo on the right side, that is a game changer. Ford at guard and Williams back at rt seems like a natural fit for both.

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He got his foot stepped on.

Is that what happened? That makes more sense. I only saw the wide shot it looked like he got trucked

[eball]

Dawkins/Spain/Morse/Ford/Williams?

 

Sign me up. That’s a top 10 OL. 

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

How much time should a guy you had a 1st round grade on need to develop?  If anything, perhaps he needs time to recover from the torn labrum surgery he had during the off-season.

 

Someone earlier talked about whether Ford has the feet to play outside and I tend to agree.  If not, he kicks in to play RG which is the least important position on the OL.  You play on the strong side, and typically pull less than the LG.  

 Good points, but disagree RG is the least important.  They are all important and typically LG is pulling to the left with the C, and LT.  RG is left on an island as RT typically pulls far out to the right.  Not my words, Paul Alexander, long time Line coach for thirty years, Ross Tucker, and Bill Callahan have all said the same things.  People undervalue the guard position which is a mistake as so many run plays relies on the Guards.  They have the greatest opportunity to create seams for the RB’s, and we finally are seeing great running teams are going deeper in the playoffs.

 

It is so easy to say this is a passing league almost inferring this is the only thing that matters.  A team with a great running game and defense from the back forwards have done well.  SF is a perfect example where they had a great run game, and an excellent defense.  Baltimore and SF were excellent in these areas, and have excellent TE play.  We’ll see this year if our TE game has improved.  We definitely have the potential in these areas, and if Allen takes another step getting up to 63% completion rate, and I think he can do it, we are going to have a fun year.

[CSBill]

9 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

Lots of good point made here. Williams' age is at the top of the list. Also remember the Bills started Howard Ballard at RG the first year. 

 

The state of the O Line is probably the best example of why Beane's approach is so good. They have a lot of options because they brought in so many guys who can play. Drafting Ford in the 2nd round alone gives them so much leeway. If he's a 1st round pick you may be more inclined to force him in at RT because of draft status. If his best position is guard so be it. And bringing in Williams on a low risk contract opens up great possibilities. If he pans out he's not going to demand Dawkins money, they can do a 3 year deal a la John Brown and Cole Beasley and see what happens.

 

Meanwhile, he brings in Winters and if the Ford-Williams combo works on the right side he has the option to have a proven starter as the interior backup guy or go younger (Bates/Boettger). And he still has Feliciano. What a great a spot to be in. That's how you build a roster.

 

 

Our line situation is the best its been in years. The Ravens are the example the Bills need to follow, get the best five people on the field--that may mean position switches, but get your best five out there. What makes a great team = Great players. Obviously you want to put them at their best positions, but if you have have two really good RTs and two mediocre RGs, well, make the move.

 

In addition, I think this gives the Bills some trade bate. It would surprise no one if, like last year, one or two of the back-ups is traded for a draft pick in the late camp days. When was the last time the Bills had that kind of depth?

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

 Good points, but disagree RG is the least important.  They are all important and typically LG is pulling to the left with the C, and LT.  RG is left on an island as RT typically pulls far out to the right.  Not my words, Paul Alexander, long time Line coach for thirty years, Ross Tucker, and Bill Callahan have all said the same things.  People undervalue the guard position which is a mistake as so many run plays relies on the Guards.  They have the greatest opportunity to create seams for the RB’s, and we finally are seeing great running teams are going deeper in the playoffs.

 

Indeed. A fair few teams now play their strongest guard on the right side. 

 

Philadelphia - Brandon Brooks

New England - Shaq Mason

Dallas - Zack Martin

New Orleans - Larry Warford

 

It isn't universal yet by any means but a lot of coaches are starting to think that way. 

 

[machine gun kelly]

Well said GB.  All good running teams.  So I’m not misinterpreted, I’m not saying Allen’s development is not the Lynch pin to our offense’s success, and we need an even better called game than Daboll did last year as they are critical. With that said, a really strong running game just makes the defenses job easier, and Allen’s job easier.

 

Considering Ford did a heck of a job in high school and college at Guard, it would be great to have a strong RG, and if we have an upgrade at RT, all the better.  I hope Williams gets back to his form before his injuries.  Maybe this virtual off season was good for him in the healing process.

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

11 hours ago, NewEra said:

very interesting.  if Williams can bounce back and show his 2017 form we could be in business.  Ford going inside gets a thumbs up from me!

Agreed, Williams was asked to play too many positions last year and was still recovering from injury. He used to be an excellent player and hopefully will regain that form. If the Bills have decided Ford is best at Guard, I hope they keep him there and let him get comfortable at the position (no more flip-flopping between OG and OT). 

 

On a side note, given the recent stadium situation, aren't you contractually obligated to change your name to 'Bills Stadium' now? ?

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Also does this leave Winters as possible trade bait (there was reportedly a lot of interest after the Jets released him) or as a really strong depth piece on our O-line? 

 

I think the Bills could get a 5th rounder for Winters if they wanted given his talent/contract, but if he's on board with starting the season as a bench player, Winters as the next man up is a huge asset and a testament to the depth Beane has built in that room. I'd keep him ahead of a season where we are cautiously optimistic about the division title and a playoff run. 

[Rochesterfan]

40 minutes ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Also does this leave Winters as possible trade bait (there was reportedly a lot of interest after the Jets released him) or as a really strong depth piece on our O-line? 

 

I think the Bills could get a 5th rounder for Winters if they wanted given his talent/contract, but if he's on board with starting the season as a bench player, Winters as the next man up is a huge asset and a testament to the depth Beane has built in that room. I'd keep him ahead of a season where we are cautiously optimistic about the division title and a playoff run. 

 

I think he is/was signed as a legitimate guard starter/back-up because of the Mongo injury.  They needed to give themselves some nice veteran depth and he was an upgrade.  
 

I think when he became available it changed the teams depth vision.  It allows Mongo to come back and fill the Spencer Long role of Guard/Center depth as Mongo showed well filling in at center.

 

I would not expect them to use Winters as trade bait - I think he is their swing guard and still has potential to start as needed.  Mongo becomes the swing interior lineman to cover for center and guards.  Bates and Ty help cover the tackle position.  
 

I love the depth and the versatility these guys bring.

[SCBills]

Big development if accurate.  Ford was widely regarded as a stud Guard in the Draft, who had the ability to play Tackle. 
 

We already have a good Center-Left line in Morse, Spain and Dawkins - If Ford/Williams can hold down the right side, that’s a really good looking OL.  
 

 

[Da webster guy]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree on that. It was pretty close. Ty was not great at all. Ty's best games and Cody's best games were a wash. Ty's worst games were a higher floor than Cody's worst games but neither of them approached solid. 

Thats how I saw it too as a guy who knows nothing about Oline play.  

 

What happened last year in camp was Feliciano turned out to be an animal at RG and flat out won the job.  Now you have a rookie guard you spent a lot of draft capital on and you want to get him experience but sitting Feliciano isn't an option.

 

Platooning the RT position was their answer, then Ty gets hurt and Cody falls into a full time RT.  

 

Williams is a very good tackle when healthy, which he seems to be right now.  

 

Opening day is less than 3 weeks away, this is a no brainer for Bobby Johnson.

 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Also does this leave Winters as possible trade bait (there was reportedly a lot of interest after the Jets released him) or as a really strong depth piece on our O-line? 

 

I think the Bills could get a 5th rounder for Winters if they wanted given his talent/contract, but if he's on board with starting the season as a bench player, Winters as the next man up is a huge asset and a testament to the depth Beane has built in that room. I'd keep him ahead of a season where we are cautiously optimistic about the division title and a playoff run. 

I think it’d be wise to hang onto Winters.. we aren’t a team that is rebuilding.. we don’t need draft picks, we need as much firepower as we can get.. someone started a thread about trading Tre for two 1sts and I think that’s terribly silly.. we aren’t the Jacksonville Jaguars... we are a team that is contending for a championship.. if anything we’re a team that should be trading for players, as evidenced by the Stefon Diggs trade.. I think our Super Bowl window is just opening up now.. saturate this team with as much talent as possible... time to win is now..

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Ususally a team carries 9 on the active 53 man roster, and 1 or 2 on PS.  To me it would sound most like

 

Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Ford - Williams

 

IOL Depth - Winters

C Depth - Boehm

T Depth - Nsekhe

Protected 9th lineman inactive on game days- Bates or Boettger

 

Depends on who goes down though.  If williams is injured for snaps, do you move winters into RG and Ford to RT?  Not sure.  Thats probably what a lot of these practices are for.

[BarleyNY]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He has longer arms than Joe Thomas. and rookie tackles usually are thinking a lot more than playing, that's why they're slower

 

The dude is a freak athlete. he went from being a fifth-round guard prospect to a borderline first-round tackle prospect

 

Guards are actually easy to find, tackles aren't and 99% need development

 

That’s a terrible comparison.  Joe Thomas actually had kinda short arms for an OT.  He had amazing technique and very quick feet.  He was a totally different kind of player. 
 

It’d be great if Ford has solidified the RG spot - and Williams RT.  We’d have four of the five OL spots locked down for next season and we could look to extend Williams to lock down the fifth.  That’s such a big step forward from a few weeks ago with Dawkins unsigned past this season and the right side totally unsettled.  I’m not taking the report as gospel quite yet, but I’m happy to hear positive information.  The OL coming together would be huge. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by BarleyNY