Do we have the Deepest D-Line in the league?

[Dkollidas]

I know they might not be in the top-5 or even top-10 in terms of high end talent (no Von Miller/Myles Garrett type of Freak), but overall I believe we may have the deepest D-Line in the league.

As a base defense, With everyone healthy, we can make two starting caliber defensive lines and have a starting caliber player as my 9th defensive lineman...

 

Group 1:

LDE: Epenesa

1-Tech: Phillips

3-Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Murphy

1-Tech: Lotulelei

3-Tech: Jefferson

RDE: Addison

 

Extras: Butler & D. Johnson

 

 

[Juice_32]

Baltimore is tough to top.

[dbfla10]

I say any combination on the first 8 could start on most if not all 31 other teams. Basically have 2 starting lines, so absolutely yes.

[MrEpsYtown]

I don’t get the Phillips love. I’ve seen it a bunch on here. Butler or Star will start with Oliver. Whoever doesn’t will get the other side of an almost 50-50 split. Phillips has accomplished nothing, looked small and overmatch, and is coming off a serious injury. I get that Phillips looks like Kyle and is all Bills Mafia and stuff, but they did not sign Butler to be a third string depth player. That’s Harrison Phillips. 
 

Edit: And I really like Phillips and would not count him out, but penciling him in as a starter at the 1 tech on a team with Butler and Star, and coming off a major injury just makes no sense.

Edited April 28, 2020 by MrEpsYtown

[freddyjj]

It's probably a good thing because KC, DEN,  LVR, LAR, ARI, and SFO games will be track meets.  Especially in Western time zone and heat, good to play D Line in waves.

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t get the Phillips love. I’ve seen it a bunch on here. Butler or Star will start with Oliver. Whoever doesn’t will get the other side of an almost 50-50 split. Phillips has accomplished nothing, looked small and overmatch, and is coming off a serious injury. I get that Phillips looks like Kyle and is all Bills Mafia and stuff, but they did not sign Butler to be a third string depth player. That’s Harrison Phillips. 

Butler signed as backup at 3T and 1T.  What no one is saying is where is Harrison Philips on his recovery from knee surgery.  If not ready, Butler is ahead on depth chart.  If ready, that will be an interesting camp battle.

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

It's probably a good thing because KC, DEN,  LVR, LAR, ARI, and SFO games will be track meets.  Especially in Western time zone and heat, good to play D Line in waves.

Butler signed as backup at 3T and 1T.  What no one is saying is where is Harrison Philips on his recovery from knee surgery.  If not ready, Butler is ahead on depth chart.  If ready, that will be an interesting camp battle.

Butler will compete with Star to start. Phillips, if healthy, will compete with Vincent Taylor for a job. He’s just not in the mix imo.

[Logic]

7 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t get the Phillips love. I’ve seen it a bunch on here. Butler or Star will start with Oliver. Whoever doesn’t will get the other side of an almost 50-50 split. Phillips has accomplished nothing, looked small and overmatch, and is coming off a serious injury. I get that Phillips looks like Kyle and is all Bills Mafia and stuff, but they did not sign Butler to be a third string depth player. That’s Harrison Phillips. 
 

Edit: And I really like Phillips and would not count him out, but penciling him in as a starter at the 1 tech on a team with Butler and Star, and coming off a major injury just makes no sense.

The only thing I agree with is that, due to injury, he won't start right away, and it may take him a while to work back into the rotation.

Other than that, I disagree. Last year, before he got injured, it was clear as day that he was outplaying Star at 1T. I fully believe that, had he not been injured, he was going to overtake the lion's share of reps and the "starter" designation from Star. Not only was he doing his job well and occupying multiple blockers and defending the run well, he was also collapsing the pocket at times and getting great penetration. His injury happening when it did was a real shame.

[freddyjj]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Butler will compete with Star to start. Phillips, if healthy, will compete with Vincent Taylor for a job. He’s just not in the mix imo.

I thought Harrison Philips outplayed Star early last year and was getting more snaps at 1T then Star when he got hurt.  Injury will determine how much Harrison Philips plays.  Vince Taylor is JAG.  See them keeping 5 DTs.  Oliver, Jefferson, Star, Butler and Harrison Philips.  

[JP's Voice]

I agree that it's very deep. 3 starting caliber DEs, 3 starting caliber DTs, 2 rotational DEs, and 2 rotational DTs.  However, I think we have 1 above average player in Ed Oliver. The rest are all average, including Hughes and Addison as this point in their career. Epenesa is an unknown.  So yes this is a deep group, but with very little above average talent.

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

I thought Harrison Philips outplayed Star early last year and was getting more snaps at 1T then Star when he got hurt.  Injury will determine how much Harrison Philips plays.  Vince Taylor is JAG.  See them keeping 5 DTs.  Oliver, Jefferson, Star, Butler and Harrison Philips.  

I agree with who they keep, but I’ve never really been impressed with what I have seen from Harrison. I hope he breaks out this year but right now he is 5-6 on the depth chart and I keep seeing people pencil him in as a starter so I am just trying to understand their thinking.  

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, JP's Voice said:

I agree that it's very deep. 3 starting caliber DEs, 3 starting caliber DTs, 2 rotational DEs, and 2 rotational DTs.  However, I think we have 1 above average player in Ed Oliver. The rest are all average, including Hughes and Addison as this point in their career. Epenesa is an unknown.  So yes this is a deep group, but with very little above average talent.

 

 

A little harshly stated, but I understand your point.  It's a good group but not with much upper echelon players.  But as can be seen by the depth and investment it looks quite unlikely that they would add Clowney.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t get the Phillips love. I’ve seen it a bunch on here. Butler or Star will start with Oliver. Whoever doesn’t will get the other side of an almost 50-50 split. Phillips has accomplished nothing, looked small and overmatch, and is coming off a serious injury. I get that Phillips looks like Kyle and is all Bills Mafia and stuff, but they did not sign Butler to be a third string depth player. That’s Harrison Phillips. 
 

Edit: And I really like Phillips and would not count him out, but penciling him in as a starter at the 1 tech on a team with Butler and Star, and coming off a major injury just makes no sense.

I think you should rewatch the first 3 games last year. You might feel differently.  He was playing really well at the time of his injury imo.  If it weren’t for his injury I feel that he’d be starting next to Ed 

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I agree with who they keep, but I’ve never really been impressed with what I have seen from Harrison. I hope he breaks out this year but right now he is 5-6 on the depth chart and I keep seeing people pencil him in as a starter so I am just trying to understand their thinking.  

He was injured early last season but before the injury it looked like he had made a leap from Season 1 to 2..

 

I expect him to get plenty of playing time early this year and take over Star’s position mid season..

[NewEra]

I agree with the OP.  I believe we have the deepest DL in the league.  Can’t wait to see how they perform.  
 

 

[hondo in seattle]

41 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I know they might not be in the top-5 or even top-10 in terms of high end talent (no Von Miller/Myles Garrett type of Freak), but overall I believe we may have the deepest D-Line in the league.

As a base defense, With everyone healthy, we can make two starting caliber defensive lines and have a starting caliber player as my 9th defensive lineman...

 

Group 1:

LDE: Epenesa

1-Tech: Phillips

3-Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Murphy

1-Tech: Lotulelei

3-Tech: Jefferson

RDE: Addison

 

Extras: Butler & D. Johnson

 

 

 

Our DL depth is fantastic.  I can't remember a time when it was better.

But let me ask, Addison doesn't start?   The guy's had 39 sacks in the past 4 years.

[SCBills]

Harry was a 3rd Round Pick, great college player who started playing really well in his snaps last year before getting hurt.  
 

If healthy, he definitely seems like he’s in the DT rotation.  
 

 

[Green Lightning]

26 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I agree with who they keep, but I’ve never really been impressed with what I have seen from Harrison. I hope he breaks out this year but right now he is 5-6 on the depth chart and I keep seeing people pencil him in as a starter so I am just trying to understand their thinking.  

He was far more disruptive than Star before going down. Proof was in reps, he was on the field more than Star.  He's definitely in the mix and if health, will start. 

[aristocrat]

we are certainly in that conversation along with balt. 

[Orlando Tim]

30 minutes ago, JP's Voice said:

I agree that it's very deep. 3 starting caliber DEs, 3 starting caliber DTs, 2 rotational DEs, and 2 rotational DTs.  However, I think we have 1 above average player in Ed Oliver. The rest are all average, including Hughes and Addison as this point in their career. Epenesa is an unknown.  So yes this is a deep group, but with very little above average talent.

 

 

This is what I think the thought process is- keep them rotating and fresh because we do not have any ends who this  year will compete with the Watt brothers.

[Big Turk]

By far yes.

[MrEpsYtown]

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think you should rewatch the first 3 games last year. You might feel differently.  He was playing really well at the time of his injury imo.  If it weren’t for his injury I feel that he’d be starting next to Ed 

Still have them on the DVR and have nothing to do, sounds good.

[Happy]

29 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Our DL depth is fantastic.  I can't remember a time when it was better.

But let me ask, Addison doesn't start?   The guy's had 39 sacks in the past 4 years.

 

They rotate so much that I doubt it matters at this point.  I could see that changing if, for example, Addison outperforms Hughes in practice and game situations.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Happy Gilmore

[Orlando Tim]

29 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Our DL depth is fantastic.  I can't remember a time when it was better.

But let me ask, Addison doesn't start?   The guy's had 39 sacks in the past 4 years.

I think Addison and AJ will be splitting snaps by mid season-as for who is technically the starter at that point might depend on team.

[billsfan89]

I am not too familiar with the backups of other teams but I would say that the Bills have (setting AJ aside as he is a rookie) 6-7 starting caliber players along the D-line and 1-2 high end rotational players. Hughes, Addison, Ed Oliver, Quinton Jefferson, Star, Butler, and Henry Phillips (if he comes back from injury effectively) are all starting caliber defensive linemen ranging from borderline probowl (Oliver, Addison, Jefferson and Hughes) to below average (Star and possibly Butler.) Then I would say that Trent Murphy and Phillips (if an injury hampers him) are high end rotational players. 

 

That's a D-line that goes 8 deep and just added a highly touted 2nd round pick to the mix. I don't know of any other defensive lines that go that deep with quality players. 

8 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

They rotate so much that I doubt it matters at this point.  I could see that changing if, for example, Addison outperforms Hughes in practice and game situations.

 

It is more about percentage of snaps and situations. I could see AJ and Hughes on rushing situations and Addison and Murphy more in passing situations. McD seems to prioritize having a deep unit that can be flexed in and out for the right situation to maximize the players strength. 

[MrEpsYtown]

But to answer the original question, the answer is San Francisco 49ers 

Edited April 28, 2020 by MrEpsYtown

[CaptnCoke11]

It’s pretty deep yes but top end talent lacks some.  Hopefully Oliver takes a step forward and becomes that interior force.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by CaptnCoke11

[ChattanoogaBills]

1 hour ago, Dkollidas said:

I know they might not be in the top-5 or even top-10 in terms of high end talent (no Von Miller/Myles Garrett type of Freak), but overall I believe we may have the deepest D-Line in the league.

As a base defense, With everyone healthy, we can make two starting caliber defensive lines and have a starting caliber player as my 9th defensive lineman...

 

Group 1:

LDE: Epenesa

1-Tech: Phillips

3-Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Murphy

1-Tech: Lotulelei

3-Tech: Jefferson

RDE: Addison

 

Extras: Butler & D. Johnson

 

 

I would say

Group 1:

LDE: Murphy

1 Tech: Star

3 Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Addison

1 Tec: Philips

3 Tec: Jefferson

RDE: Epenesa

 

Thats a scary Dline

Also I wouldn't be surprised if Beane trades Murphy for a mid round draft pick. I doubt Epenesa starts as McDermott doesn't like to start rookies over veterans.

Edited April 28, 2020 by ChattanoogaBills

[Dkollidas]

48 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Our DL depth is fantastic.  I can't remember a time when it was better.

But let me ask, Addison doesn't start?   The guy's had 39 sacks in the past 4 years.

I would think he does. But I was just trying to put two lines together that we’re balanced in terms of each having a pass rusher (Hughes and Addison), an edge setter (Epenesa & Murphy) a 1-tech ( Phillips/Lotulelei) and a 3-tech (Oliver/Jefferson).

 

you can put them however you’d like but regardless they’re both starting caliber defensive lines. Not great, but starting caliber.

[Happy]

44 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

But to answer the original question, the answer is San Francisco 49ers 

 

Yep.  Between SF and Baltimore, no better D-lines in the league.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I know they might not be in the top-5 or even top-10 in terms of high end talent (no Von Miller/Myles Garrett type of Freak), but overall I believe we may have the deepest D-Line in the league.

As a base defense, With everyone healthy, we can make two starting caliber defensive lines and have a starting caliber player as my 9th defensive lineman...

 

Group 1:

LDE: Epenesa

1-Tech: Phillips

3-Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Murphy

1-Tech: Lotulelei

3-Tech: Jefferson

RDE: Addison

 

Extras: Butler & D. Johnson

 

Ugh, No.  I'm getting flashbacks to when we had the best D-line in the league "on paper".  Then Wannstache happened.

[eball]

2 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I know they might not be in the top-5 or even top-10 in terms of high end talent (no Von Miller/Myles Garrett type of Freak), but overall I believe we may have the deepest D-Line in the league.

As a base defense, With everyone healthy, we can make two starting caliber defensive lines and have a starting caliber player as my 9th defensive lineman...

 

Group 1:

LDE: Epenesa

1-Tech: Phillips

3-Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Murphy

1-Tech: Lotulelei

3-Tech: Jefferson

RDE: Addison

 

Extras: Butler & D. Johnson

 

 

 

You must be channeling Mark Gaughan of The Buffalo News; he wrote about this yesterday.  The "first four" aren't the best in the league but nobody can rotate 10 guys like the Bills can, which is perfect for McD's style of defense.  They are going to have to let one or two pretty good players go (or try to trade them) because it's unlikely they go with more than 9 on the 53.

 

Nice problem to have.

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I know they might not be in the top-5 or even top-10 in terms of high end talent (no Von Miller/Myles Garrett type of Freak), but overall I believe we may have the deepest D-Line in the league.

As a base defense, With everyone healthy, we can make two starting caliber defensive lines and have a starting caliber player as my 9th defensive lineman...

 

Group 1:

LDE: Epenesa

1-Tech: Phillips

3-Tech: Oliver

RDE: Hughes

 

Group 2:

LDE: Murphy

1-Tech: Lotulelei

3-Tech: Jefferson

RDE: Addison

 

Extras: Butler & D. Johnson

 

 

No,  it's about quality and there is nothing but average talent on the line. Guys like Murphy making around 10 million do not help at all.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, JP's Voice said:

I agree that it's very deep. 3 starting caliber DEs, 3 starting caliber DTs, 2 rotational DEs, and 2 rotational DTs.  However, I think we have 1 above average player in Ed Oliver. The rest are all average, including Hughes and Addison as this point in their career. Epenesa is an unknown.  So yes this is a deep group, but with very little above average talent.

 

 

 

Yeah - but keep rotating in fresh legs.  Hughes and Epensa on back to back snaps are very different styles too.  Harder to prepare for.  

[Alphadawg7]

We have the deepest DL in the league IMO.  And it could also prove to be the best DL in the league, but we need to see it on the field first.  We still have still key questions answer to know if we can be one of the best, if not the best DL in the NFL next year.

1. Is Harrison going to pick up where he left off before injury?  He was quietly playing as our best DT when he got hurt.  
2. What does Addison and Hughes have left in the tank as they enter the later years of their respective careers.  Can they keep up their level of play?
3. What role does Espensa have as a rookie, and how will he perform?
4. Does Ed Oliver take another step forward?

All of these key questions will impact the overall ranking of or DL obviously, but I am quite optimistic on all the above questions.  My offseason answers to the above are"

1. Yes, I think Harrison comes back strong, always liked that pick and think we were just starting to see what kind of player he can be.
2. I think at least for this season (assuming it happens), both Addison and Hughes will maintain a similar level of play, especially with our depth allowing a rotation to keep them fresh.
3. AJE I think pretty obviously starts the season in a rotation with guys like Addison, Hughes, Jefferson and Murphy still ahead of him.  I expect them to bring him a long similar to how they worked with Oliver last year where with hard work will earn a bigger role in that rotation as the season goes on.  I am not convinced he will start at any point this year (barring injuries of course) because we are so deep at DE right now with 2 pretty good players ahead of him in Hughes and Addison.  But I do see him getting increased reps in the rotation between his versatility and the age of the guys ahead of him.  
4. YES.  I think Ed Oliver is going to have a break out year on this DL.  So much talent around him and I think we see Oliver emerge as a beast.

So if you ask me, I think we have a great shot at finishing the year as the best DL in football.  Until these questions are officially answered, its just potential right now.  But I do feel its quite fair to label us the deepest D Line in football.  As someone else pointed out, our projected 2nd unit could literally be a starting unit on most teams and still be pretty good.  

[Happy]

7 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

No,  it's about quality and there is nothing but average talent on the line. Guys like Murphy making around 10 million do not help at all.

 

I've mentioned before, I'm not a fan of Murphy or Star as both are average at best, and neither are particularly outstanding at their jobs. Unfortunately, Star is here through 2021 and Murphy through 2020; hopefully neither gets re-signed.  Further, I don't think we really know what we have at the 1-tech in Harry Phillips, he rotated in his rookie season and missed most of last season.  Something to watch.  Our D-line should be good, but I am concerned about the 1-tech and Murphy getting too many snaps again.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I've mentioned before, I'm not a fan of Murphy or Star as both are average at best, and neither are particularly outstanding at their jobs. Unfortunately, Star is here through 2021 and Murphy through 2020; hopefully neither gets re-signed.  Further, I don't think we really know what we have at the 1-tech in Harry Phillips, he rotated in his rookie season and missed most of last season.  Something to watch.  Our D-line should be good, but I am concerned about the 1-tech and Murphy getting too many snaps again.

 

I know Murphy is a popular cut in many peoples posts, but i really feel like johnson would have to play really well in camp for it to be justified.  Murphy has forced 4 fumbles, recovered 3  in 2 years, has 9 sacks - and had 2 sacks in the playoff game.  I know in 2018 he was hurt in camp, which probably lingered all season long.  Towards the end of 2019 he was bringing some pretty good pressure.  We'll see what ends up happening, but I think he's got a good chance to stick for the year.

[RyanC883]

I like this.  For the purposes of the question: yes, I think we have the deepest line in the league.  

 

For other purposes, I would be addison in as a starter, and Harrison will be dependent on how he does in the preseason.  Otherwise I see Jefferson/Star.  

[rayray808]

did we just make the greatest weakness on our defense possibly our greatest strength?

 

if so...

 

LOOK OUT

 

offense scores more than 17 a game and we win

[MJS]

We lack an elite player on the line. We've got some above average players, though. Hopefully Oliver becomes that elite guy.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

We lack an elite player on the line. We've got some above average players, though. Hopefully Oliver becomes that elite guy.

 

I think thats the hope - having two like good-not-great ends in hughes and addison helps.  And being able to rotate in AJ and Murphy.. moving guys like jefferson around on 3rd downs - it should be able to create pressure.