Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsGuru4 said: Clowney is a physical specimen/athletic freak. That being said, he is no Mario Williams and light years from Bruce. I would still celebrate if we signed him to a decently team friendly deal. We must be able to retain Milano and Tre, and it would be nice to extend Dawkins as well. I have always viewed him as a much better version of Shaq. That’s probably a totally unfair comparison. Just sort of good at being stout and more of a strength guy than a speed rusher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 3 hours ago, njbuff said: Mario was on Bruce Smith's level in terms of pure talent. Clowney I am not so sure about. Clowney is as talented as any defensive lineman in nfl history. Work ethic and taking plays off are his issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Why would he go back to Seattle on a 1 year deal? Whatever the reason, playing for them last year doesn’t look to have helped him land a lucrative long term deal. Not saying he should come to Buffalo, but he definitely shouldn’t go back to Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Not going to happen unless Beane makes some cuts to do it, which I don't see happening. He's asking for 20 mil. And even if he comes down, we only have about 22.5 left atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Not going to happen unless Beane makes some cuts to do it, which I don't see happening. He's asking for 20 mil. And even if he comes down, we only have about 22.5 left atm. Murphy would either be cut or traded saving $8m against them cap. Not saying it’s gonna happen, but there’s enough cap room there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 4 hours ago, njbuff said: Mario was on Bruce Smith's level in terms of pure talent. Clowney I am not so sure about. Mario was not even in the same universe as Bruce. Mario was a 1 trick pony that lacked motivation and took plays off. Mario was all size and strength, Bruce had all of that and finesse. His edge rush re-wrote and defined the position for the next generation. Mario had a Bull rush, and if he couldn't overpower you he surrendered. I cant even fathom that someone would think he was as talented as Bruce... he was "A Bad Man" !!! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 11 hours ago, loyal2dagame said: I'm on board with that, but it's not gonna get it done If he wants to sign with a contender that has enough talent around him to take advantage of a 1 year prove it deal he should. He has to realize teams on the brink of serious contention rarely have that kind of cap equity. The Bills are an exception right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I wonder if his market is hurt because teams can't conduct a physical right now. It might be a few months before a team is willing to commit to him. So yeah I see him signing another 1 year prove it deal. I would love the Bills to somehow get him, even just for this year, and immediately be championship contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkollidas Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 17 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: people have been down this road plenty of times no need to discuss further, he's a three time All Pro and obviously has a big impact if you watch. The league seems to disagree... hence why he hasn’t signed a contract yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Dkollidas said: The league seems to disagree... hence why he hasn’t signed a contract yet. Wait are you saying Clowney won't have a job in the NFL......I'll wager you that he gets a big Market level payday soon.....so don't go off beating your chest just yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 3 sacks in a walk year. Yet to get double digits in a season. I know sometimes things fall in your lap and the number goes up and down... but 3? all year? for a guy who wants to be paid the highest at the position? 4 forced fumbles is a nice stat - but you don't pay run stopping DE's 20 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 His spotrac Market Value 6 yrs, $120,340,914 Avg. Salary: $20,056,819 NFL Rank: 22 DE Rank: 3 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/jadeveon-clowney-14410/market-value/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Mario wasn't Bruce, but he was pretty damn good for 2 of his 4 years here and excellent in his 3rd year here.... I still don't understand how fans think he wasn't that good. Well, I'm not saying he wasn't good but comparing him to one of the 2 or 3 greatest of all time is a huge stretch. His edge rush, his spin move, his quickness off the ball, his pursuit from behind, his longevity, I mean.... Mario had none of that. I mean on what planet is Mario even remotely as talented. And for the record I was a Mario fan until his last season, but to compare him to Bruuuuuuuuce? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, babulator said: Well, I'm not saying he wasn't good but comparing him to one of the 2 or 3 greatest of all time is a huge stretch. His edge rush, his spin move, his quickness off the ball, his pursuit from behind, his longevity, I mean.... Mario had none of that. I mean on what planet is Mario even remotely as talented. And for the record I was a Mario fan until his last season, but to compare him to Bruuuuuuuuce? Mario was a Bill for his 7th-10th NFL seasons. A simple apples-to-apples comparison of the 2 players’ 7th-10th NFL seasons is eye-opening to say the least: http://pfref.com/tiny/03fWq 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) The Bills become really serious contenders with a Clowney in tow. I'm trying to beat Mahomes and the Chiefs. Edited March 19, 2020 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babulator Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 So similiar amount of sacks with Bruce having 2.3+ times the amount of tackles. That sounds about right 2 to 3 times as good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, babulator said: So similiar amount of sacks with Bruce having 2.3+ times the amount of tackles. That sounds about right 2 to 3 times as good Twice as many forced fumbles and 12 fewer games played because Bruce missed almost all of 1991. It is eye opening. Bruce's overall impact on the game compared to Mario Williams isn't even close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 hours ago, HappyDays said: I wonder if his market is hurt because teams can't conduct a physical right now. It might be a few months before a team is willing to commit to him. So yeah I see him signing another 1 year prove it deal. I would love the Bills to somehow get him, even just for this year, and immediately be championship contenders. That has to be a big reason why. He is talented, but the injuries are a concern. If Clowney is willing to go with a one year deal, then I would hope that the Bills would be talking to him. 46 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Mario wasn't Bruce, but he was pretty damn good for 2 of his 4 years here and excellent in his 3rd year here.... I still don't understand how fans think he wasn't that good. Mario's last year with the Bills is the primary reason why so many fans are down on him. He mailed it in that year. Weather that was because of Wrecks or he just didn't care anymore, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchiseneedsme Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Why arnt the Bill getting back in on Clowney? 16m on a one or 2 year deal. We need a guy like him to chase Mahomes and win a SB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 3/19/2020 at 11:44 AM, thebandit27 said: A simple apples-to-apples comparison of the 2 players’ 7th-10th NFL seasons is eye-opening to say the least: http://pfref.com/tiny/03fWq It certainly is. Bruce was a complete player...Mario, not so much. Tackles Fumbles Def Interceptions Rk Player From To AV G Solo Ast QBHits TFL Sk FF FR Yds TD Int Yds TD 1 Bruce Smith* 1991 1994 48 51 272 24 39.5 11 3 0 0 2 0 0 2 Mario Williams 2012 2015 45 63 116 29 60 53 43.0 5 2 0 0 0 0 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 3/19/2020 at 8:46 AM, dneveu said: 3 sacks in a walk year. Yet to get double digits in a season. I know sometimes things fall in your lap and the number goes up and down... but 3? all year? for a guy who wants to be paid the highest at the position? 4 forced fumbles is a nice stat - but you don't pay run stopping DE's 20 million a year. I agree. Sort of similar to Sammy Watkins— talent doesn’t match production. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I agree. Sort of similar to Sammy Watkins— talent doesn’t match production. So does that mean he doesn't use his talent or the numbers you're looking at are not the right ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: So does that mean he doesn't use his talent or the numbers you're looking at are not the right ones? To me, if you are paying a DE elite money, he has to play a lot and get a lot of sacks. Clowney seems to miss games and not get sacks. And I’m not entirely sure why, especially on sacks. (And if a reason is that he is double-teamed a lot, every great DE gets double teamed). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Watkins just won a super bowl and was the leading receiver in the playoffs and key contributor to why the Chiefs won the Super Bowl..... agreed, who needs talent like that? ? yet he's not their #1. He led receivers in playoffs because everyone concentrated on Hill. Thats why he didn't sign a new contract conducive to a #1 WR. Not saying he's not talented, but in Buffalo he was a #1 and would have required #1 money. And that, not necessarily due to faults of his own, did not match production. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 3/19/2020 at 11:54 AM, That's No Moon said: Twice as many forced fumbles and 12 fewer games played because Bruce missed almost all of 1991. It is eye opening. Bruce's overall impact on the game compared to Mario Williams isn't even close. And Bruce’s best season was 1996, two years after this time comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Ok? Watkins was a key reason the Chiefs won the Super Bowl. You could argue without him they don’t win. My point was his comparison of Watkins to Clowney and not wanting that type of talent is a ridiculous statement. I hear ya. My point is I don't believe anybody would not want that talent. But in relationship to money and production, as well as specific scheme and other factors, sometimes it just don't fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 The prove it deals have worked out pretty well for mcbeane thus far ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboski Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I wouldnt mind a 2 year deal at 15M... you should spend big money at 3 positions (qb, OT, and pass rushers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: Watkins just won a super bowl and was the leading receiver in the playoffs and key contributor to why the Chiefs won the Super Bowl..... agreed, who needs talent like that? ? No doubt he did well in the super bowl, but that’s the point. He’s talented— like no. 1 receiver talented. Yet he can’t even match the Consistent level of production of cole Beasley. And the market reflects that— he had to take a paycut and is on a 1-year deal (and he would have probably been cut outright but the chiefs wanted to avoid a $7M cap hit). i don’t want to hijack the thread talking about watkins, but my point is you can be the most talented guy in the world, but teams should and usually do pay for players based on some degree of consistent production. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: To me, if you are paying a DE elite money, he has to play a lot and get a lot of sacks. Clowney seems to miss games and not get sacks. And I’m not entirely sure why, especially on sacks. (And if a reason is that he is double-teamed a lot, every great DE gets double teamed). sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks aren’t the only things that matter with regards to pass rushers. Yes, sacks matter. As do qb pressures, QB hits, TFL, playing the run and being disruptive on a weekly basis. Jerry Hughes doesn’t get many sacks. He’s a very good pass rusher. He affects the game and is part of the reason our defense is so good. If we had Hughes, Addison and Clowney plus our stable of DTs, I’m confidant our pass rush wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless of how many sacks we get. Edited April 4, 2020 by NewEra 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 5 hours ago, NewEra said: sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks aren’t the only things that matter with regards to pass rushers. Yes, sacks matter. As do qb pressures, QB hits, TFL, playing the run and being disruptive on a weekly basis. Jerry Hughes doesn’t get many sacks. He’s a very good pass rusher. He affects the game and is part of the reason our defense is so good. If we had Hughes, Addison and Clowney plus our stable of DTs, I’m confidant our pass rush wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless of how many sacks we get. Sacks are good. Pressuring a QB into an errant throw resulting in a turnover is much better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 3/19/2020 at 11:44 AM, thebandit27 said: Mario was a Bill for his 7th-10th NFL seasons. A simple apples-to-apples comparison of the 2 players’ 7th-10th NFL seasons is eye-opening to say the least: http://pfref.com/tiny/03fWq Enough facts! Stick with the inaccurate narrative that Mario was an overpaid bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said: Sacks are good. Pressuring a QB into an errant throw resulting in a turnover is much better. They are. sacks are amazing. I don’t want to lessen the importance of getting sacks, rather give some attention to the plays that don’t pop up in the regular box score. Forcing a QB to throw the ball away or hurry his throw into an incompletion is almost as good as a sack on 3rd.....and forcing the qb into an interception is even better. Disruption and versatility. Clowney brings both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 7 hours ago, NewEra said: sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks aren’t the only things that matter with regards to pass rushers. Yes, sacks matter. As do qb pressures, QB hits, TFL, playing the run and being disruptive on a weekly basis. Jerry Hughes doesn’t get many sacks. He’s a very good pass rusher. He affects the game and is part of the reason our defense is so good. If we had Hughes, Addison and Clowney plus our stable of DTs, I’m confidant our pass rush wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless of how many sacks we get. I will admit that sacks can be a misleading stat. But what’s weird about clowney is his consistently low sack numbers over his career. It defies the odds for any good edge rusher. It’s really strange. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I will admit that sacks can be a misleading stat. But what’s weird about clowney is his consistently low sack numbers over his career. It defies the odds for any good edge rusher. It’s really strange. I agree. It is. He’s definitely not as good as I thought he’d be (or anyone thought he’d be). I feel like every time I turn on a game and he’s playing, he’s causing a ruckus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 I wonder if the Browns swoop in knowing they don't have Garrett to start the season and they still have 43 million in cap space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, NewEra said: sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks sacks aren’t the only things that matter with regards to pass rushers. Yes, sacks matter. As do qb pressures, QB hits, TFL, playing the run and being disruptive on a weekly basis. Jerry Hughes doesn’t get many sacks. He’s a very good pass rusher. He affects the game and is part of the reason our defense is so good. If we had Hughes, Addison and Clowney plus our stable of DTs, I’m confidant our pass rush wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless of how many sacks we get. I share many of the concerns about Clowney's low PR production, but I would be ALL in a short term/HIGH DOLLAR contract. The sack numbers are concerning, but he appears to do everything well and has not always been tasked with rushing the passer. He's an elite ATHLETE. The defense desperately needs an elite athlete on the edge. Someone you know can track a ball carrier/QB(maybe it happens down the field in his case). I'm with you on the combination aspect. Clowney would be a perfect compliment to Hughes and Addison(both long in the tooth and neither elite athletically). I could see that combination generating a ton of pressure and wreaking havoc on backfields. If we're talking about a short term deal, sign me up. Edited April 5, 2020 by LSHMEAB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 13 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Watkins just won a super bowl and was the leading receiver in the playoffs and key contributor to why the Chiefs won the Super Bowl..... agreed, who needs talent like that? ? Just to point out There are no name players that have done this same thing......Sammy getting paid a lot of coin. I mean....good for him....but I would not want to pay it and ask him to be "the guy" when he wasnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 12 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: No doubt he did well in the super bowl, but that’s the point. He’s talented— like no. 1 receiver talented. Yet he can’t even match the Consistent level of production of cole Beasley. And the market reflects that— he had to take a paycut and is on a 1-year deal (and he would have probably been cut outright but the chiefs wanted to avoid a $7M cap hit). i don’t want to hijack the thread talking about watkins, but my point is you can be the most talented guy in the world, but teams should and usually do pay for players based on some degree of consistent production. They paid Watkins to have that little extra late in the year, or in the playoffs. They got out of him what they wanted. I would bring in Clowney to add that little extra something to the defense. They have the money. Clowney is an upgrade. He would vault the defense into championship quality. Against the Cheifs, against the Ravens having someone who routinley gets penetration off the edge is huge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cle23 Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, njbuff said: I wonder if the Browns swoop in knowing they don't have Garrett to start the season and they still have 43 million in cap space? Why wouldn't they have Garrett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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