What % did Josh improve from yr1 to yr2?

[BBills88]

I hope he makes another 50% jump in decision making next year.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

If he can fix the issue with the deep ball and if we can get him more weapons then there is quite a bit to look forward to.

 

Id like to see more efficiency as a passer. 

 

We can say hindsight is 20/20, but a lot of us were pushing for Metcalf last year in the draft.

 

Wonder what the difference would have been if we drafted him rather than Ford.

[Buftex]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

If he can fix the issue with the deep ball and if we can get him more weapons then there is quite a bit to look forward to.

 

Id like to see more efficiency as a passer. 

It may have been slight, and I don't have any fancy stats to back it up, but I really think over the last month of the season he did show some improvement on the deep ball.  I felt the first part of the season, his deep passes were thrown with the intent, mainly, of not getting picked off.  Most were just absurdly off target...almost gave me flashes of EJ Manuel.  I felt his confidence started growing, around the time of that Dallas game, and more of deep passes were catchable.  And it carried on the rest of the season...unfortunately, because of the issues early on, I don't think they wanted to give him a lot more opportunities.

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We can say hindsight is 20/20, but a lot of us were pushing for Metcalf last year in the draft.

 

Wonder what the difference would have been if we drafted him rather than Ford.

I didn’t see many people mad over the Ford pick. The lines needed to be addressed in the worst way

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

Simple question really. Use stats if you're a stat person, use eye test if you're an eye test person, use PFF if you're a moron. What percentage did he improve? 

 

For me, I think he improved 30-40% as a whole. From his accuracy (not downfield, but he did improve over the course of the season here) to his pocket presence  to his decision making to his overall command of the game.

 

Still lots of growth available, but it feels to me like those ready to quit on him are ignoring the jump he took this year, and assuming that he won't make another jump next year.

 

 

 

P.S. - He did improve. If your answer is that he didn't, you're a troll and don't belong on this thread. 

You cracked me up with that PFF comment ??? I think your spot on with your 30-40% Another 20% next year with better talent around and hopefully better play calling better  execution by all and he will easily  be a top 10 guy and continuing to climb every year...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

Simple question really. Use stats if you're a stat person, use eye test if you're an eye test person, use PFF if you're a moron. What percentage did he improve? 

 

For me, I think he improved 30-40% as a whole. From his accuracy (not downfield, but he did improve over the course of the season here) to his pocket presence  to his decision making to his overall command of the game.

 

Still lots of growth available, but it feels to me like those ready to quit on him are ignoring the jump he took this year, and assuming that he won't make another jump next year.

 

 

 

P.S. - He did improve. If your answer is that he didn't, you're a troll and don't belong on this thread. 

 

I'd be very happy if he improves half the amount next year as he did this year.  Add some better weapons around him and would be looking good.  He's always going to have some accuracy issues, but the other side is he can make throws that very few others can. 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

 

Not even rounding up. This is true analysis. 

 

I rounded up from 27.417932804. 

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

I rounded up from 27.417932804. 

 

Did you divide by Pi? If so, what flavor?

 

 

5 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

You cracked me up with that PFF comment ???

 

I'm glad someone appreciated it... I added that on the edit cause I was waiting for someone to roll and and "Achshuallllyy, pff says he regressed" 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, pop gun said:

[1] What does he have to prove, that he's an NFL caliber QB? [2] He is the starter for the foreseeable future, he is the franchise, that's not even debatable. He is one of the better QBs in the league ( only 5 QBs had more TDs ) , [3] there is nothing more to prove, he just needs to keep getting better and hone his craft, IMO the game will slow down even more for him next year.

to answer your post 

[1]That the blunders can be eliminated.

He's got to stop running backwards 15 yards and getting sacked. Those are ROOKIE mistakes I've seen at least twice this season. 

I'm not going to B word about the lateral, or the too often fumbles, others have do that. 

[2] Foreseeable could be shorter than you think IF he can't solve the blunders. 

[3] Uh, yes there is

 

Other comments the first is a MUST

[4] Throw with more anticipation to be able to beat the blitz.   THAT is his biggest failure thus far.   

[5] Get the deep ball figured out

 

I LOVE Josh but I'm not goring to be blind to his faults.  

35 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

If he can fix the issue with the deep ball and if we can get him more weapons then there is quite a bit to look forward to.

 

Id like to see more efficiency as a passer. 

which one?

 

The one that stops at 100 or ESPN's fantasy number? 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by SlimShady'sGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I rounded up from 27.417932804. 

 

25 or 6 to 4?

[Heavy Kevi]

23 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I didn’t see many people mad over the Ford pick. The lines needed to be addressed in the worst way

 

For me it felt like Maybin over Orakpo.

 

I was screaming for Metcalf, and was completely shocked when they didn't take him. Honestly seemed like a no brainier to me. There is no way I'm alone on that.

 

I still love Beane but I'm still upset about the Ford pick.

[Boatdrinks]

Overall 25-30%. Huge, but not quite enough to say definitively whether he’s a franchise QB or not. Biggest issues are vs blitz, deep ball accuracy and ball security/ taking sacks. He can possibly improve these things, but the jury is out. 

[Freddie's Dead]

44 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

25 or 6 to 4?

 

Was he sitting cross-legged on the floor?

[blacklabel]

He improved this season. I don't know what kind of number to put on that but it was pretty clear that he got a lot better at the short/intermediate stuff, his pocket presence and movement got a lot better, he didn't seem to have the happy feet as much and he didn't bail on clean pockets as often. He picked his spots when he wanted to take off and run and despite racking up 510 yards, it seems he took less hits than last season as he would slide or get out of bounds. You know, that's one thing I find weird... in Baltimore, everyone loves seeing Lamar run all over the field, "Oh my, what an amazing player!" but almost every other QB with the ability to run, you hear, "Oh my, he took a shot! His coaches don't want him doing that!" I mean, obviously we don't want the guy to get hurt but he's 6'5" 250 and pretty tough. Forget who it was but an analyst tweeted after the game that he couldn't remember a game where he saw a QB endure more contact that Allen did and called him a tough SOB. 

 

Anyway... he also showed a better understanding of the offense which allowed him to check to different plays at the line and at times call his own plays. I think he did better in reading defenses although he had a few throws nearly picked where there seemed to be a bit of a lapse in what he was reading. 

 

He cut down on the interceptions. He still struggled with the fumbling. Weird that it keeps happening even when he's holding the ball in the typical ball-carrier fashion. Hopefully that can stop happening so frequently. 

 

He definitely made some visible strides this season. When I look back on say, EJ, I can only think of one or two things that you could see marked improvement on. I think he was able to change up his throwing motion (he used to aim the ball like he was throwing darts) and probably had a better understanding of the offense. But, he would still take off too soon and struggled against more complex defenses. It was tough to see where he got better... but that wasn't the case with Josh, which is a good sign.

 

Josh shows the ability to address his flaws and do what he needs to do to correct them. I'm confident he'll show more improvement in year three. And I like Brown and Beasley and Knox and whatnot, but they really need to find some big time playmakers to take the pressure off him a bit.

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

He played smarter, i.e. - knowing when to run, when the get out of bounds, when to throw balls away.

 

His accuracy improved.  I know it wasn't that magical 60%, but he was still better.  Yes ... lots of drops, but all QBs deal with drops.  The biggest problem with the drops, to me, was when/where they happened.  Lots of drive killers and TD preventers.

 

He showed great poise.

 

He showed great leadership.

 

Given the fact that he is surrounded by minimal NFL starting-caliber talent, I think he did a hell of a job this season.

 

All that said, I think Allen showed significant improvement and I'm certain that he will continue to do the same next year.

Yup, well stated, our offense could stand some upgrades at several positions. Beane will take care of that for us.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Eyeballin it, I'd say 30%.

 

Still plenty of room for improvement, and if he can take another 30% step this offseason, we'll be in very good shape.

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

You're comfortable using one metric to judge the entire season? Okay. 

 

 

Also, I agree about the fumbling. That's such a fluky problem though I expect it to get cleaned up.

 

 

 

 

Not even rounding up. This is true analysis. 

 

I think the part that concerns me about him fumbling is that often times is he is unaware a defender is about to hit him which means he does not take proper precaution to wrap up the ball.

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Eyeballin it, I'd say 30%.

 

Still plenty of room for improvement, and if he can take another 30% step this offseason, we'll be in very good shape.

 

Yeah I'd agree with that...maybe 35% but I am concerned with his regression on deep balls until the last few weeks of the season.  He has improved tremendously in a lot of other areas so I look forward to seeing more growth in his evolution.

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

to answer your post 

[1]That the blunders can be eliminated.

He's got to stop running backwards 15 yards and getting sacked. Those are ROOKIE mistakes I've seen at least twice this season. 

I'm not going to B word about the lateral, or the too often fumbles, others have do that. 

[2] Foreseeable could be shorter than you think IF he can't solve the blunders. 

[3] Uh, yes there is

 

Other comments the first is a MUST

[4] Throw with more anticipation to be able to beat the blitz.   THAT is his biggest failure thus far.   

[5] Get the deep ball figured out

 

I LOVE Josh but I'm not goring to be blind to his faults.  

which one?

 

The one that stops at 100 or ESPN's fantasy number? 

 

If and when he does all that, it proves what? That he is still one of the better NFL QBs in the league because if he doesn't get better at those things then what, it still proves he is one of the better NFL QBs or does he become a street FA year after next. Stupid argument as there is nothing more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things!

[Dadonkadonk]

4 hours ago, Irv said:

Last year 52.8%

This year 58.8%

 

30-40% is too high.  If he could stop fumbling so much maybe he'd become elite. 

 

 

1000 more yards, 10 more TD passes and 3 fewer Interceptions

 

That is at least 30 or 40% improvement.

 

Yes he still has a long way to go to get to elite but that is a massive improvement in one year. 

[DrDawkinstein]

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So you're saying he regressed.

[DuckyBoys]

He improved and he will be better next year.  I'm very confident .  He's young, smart and wants to win.  He'll figure out the details to continue to grow into the position.  I'm excited to see what personnel improvements they make on offense

[uticaclub]

69%?

4.20%?

Somewhere in between?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

So you're saying he regressed.

 

Reported.

[clayboy54]

Based on my eye-test, I believe he improved by around 60%. In other words, he was better than half-again over last season. The stats are too tainted to hold as pure fact anyway. Stats take into account the play of OL, receivers and backs. We had a ton of errors on those units, yet Josh more often than not made something out of nothing. Take away Gore’s ineptitude during the 2nd half of the year, Knox’s drops, poor RT play and generally less than stellar pass protections and you can see the improvement more clearly.

 

i agree that we most need game changers added to our offense next season to let Josh’s growth become more evident.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, pop gun said:

If and when he does all that, it proves what? That he is still one of the better NFL QBs in the league because if he doesn't get better at those things then what, it still proves he is one of the better NFL QBs or does he become a street FA year after next. Stupid argument as there is nothing more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things!

Stupid arguments?   -   remove the word nothing in your post  and you nailed it 100%.   you said so yourself --  See bold.

 

there is more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things!

 

Josh has to prove he can be better "at things" to remove all of my doubt. 

 

[Boca BIlls]

110%?

[Thurman Kelly]

He got 20% better.  He's now only 30% short of how good he needs to be for the Bills to be a Super Bowl contender.  I think his maximum upside is about 10% better than he was this year.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Thurman Kelly

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

People ready to give up on him are morons.  He’s right up there with Lamar, Mahomes, and Wilson as the most talented QB’s in the NFL.  Improve the run game and give him some more weapons and watch him continue to blossom into a top a QB as he cuts out the stupid mistakes and learns when to take his shots.  

 

Yeah its utterly stupid for anyone to want to give up on him.  The kid has been one of the best late game QB's in the NFL since entering the league in terms of comeback wins and then this year 4th quarter passer rating.  

 

Some things to take away from this year:

• Second most TD's in team history 
• Second most TD's in the NFL this year from weeks 5 through 17 behind only Lamar with a 21-3 TD:Turnover ratio during that span
• Led the league in third and long conversions
• In the top 5 in NFL history for most rushing yards for a QB in first 2 seasons despite MISSING all or parts of 6 games
• 2nd most rushing TD's by a QB in NFL history over first 2 seasons
• 13-7 in the regular season games he started and finished since coming back from injury last season
• Bills were top 10 red zone team this year going into final week where he barely played

Now take into account the following:

• Bills led the NFL in dropped passes
• Missed all or parts of 6 games
• Had 9 new players on offense
• For bulk of season his top 3 WR's averaged 5'10" in height and about 185 lbs
• Saddled with worthless WR starters for parts of season in Zay and Foster
• Had a rotating RT situation, one of which (Ford) struggled a lot of with consistency
• Is a young learning QB playing in what the other vets called the most challenging and complicated offensive scheme they have ever seen from Daboll  
• Bonus Point:  Daboll was a bi-polar OC this year being brilliant one minute and a complete moron the next (example:  Josh Allen TD catch vs the unbelievably stupid Gore draw at end of half before the TD attempt to Duke)

Anyone entering the offseason down on Allen is just ridiculous.  He is not a finished product by any means, but the kid is CLEARLY ascending, CLEARLY a leader, CLEARLY poised, CLEARLY full of promise and potential.  

 

Get the kid some receiving weapons and a permanent RT not named Cody Ford (move him to guard full time and he will be fine IMO).

[Nuncha]

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

You're comfortable using one metric to judge the entire season? Okay. 

 

 

Also, I agree about the fumbling. That's such a fluky problem though I expect it to get cleaned up.

 

 

 

 

Not even rounding up. This is true analysis. 

2018 10 TD's, 12 INT's (12 Games)

2019 20 TD's, 9 INT's (16 Games)

 

That's a nice improvement.  

[whatdrought]

3 hours ago, Thurman Kelly said:

He got 20% better.  He's now only 30% short of how good he needs to be for the Bills to be a Super Bowl contender.  I think his maximum upside is about 10% better than he was this year.

 

This is poorly worded. His maximum upside is the best Quarterback to ever play the game. Nobody can debate that. He has the upside to be the best ever on physical talent alone. That’s why he was a first round pick. That’s why he was dang close to being the first pick. Whether he’ll get anywhere near that is anybodies guess, but the talent is for sure there. 

 

You can say he’ll only improve 10% from now, but I disagree with that as well. 

[stony]

I don’t have a number to put out in it, but I’m excited for next season. 

 

I was cautiously pessimistic after they drafted him. I changed that to cautiously optimistic going into this season after watching him finish his rookie season. Now I’m just psyched for him to play with some real talent.  Here’s hoping Beane will continue to upgrade the oline and offense this off season. 

[Sweats]

22%........what the **** do i know?

[JaCrispy]

9 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Simple question really. Use stats if you're a stat person, use eye test if you're an eye test person, use PFF if you're a moron. What percentage did he improve? 

 

For me, I think he improved 30-40% as a whole. From his accuracy (not downfield, but he did improve over the course of the season here) to his pocket presence  to his decision making to his overall command of the game.

 

Still lots of growth available, but it feels to me like those ready to quit on him are ignoring the jump he took this year, and assuming that he won't make another jump next year.

 

 

 

P.S. - He did improve. If your answer is that he didn't, you're a troll and don't belong on this thread. 

If he improved as much as you say, and he is still as bad as he is, we are in serious trouble... ?

 

In all seriousness, he improved this year a little...but next year he really needs to put it all together imo...I feel like he’s on the 7 year development plan...

 

By the time he throws a 300 yard game, the city should throw a ticker tape parade, erecting a statue that forever cements the occasion... 

 

I kid I kid...keep improving Josh...we all are counting on you... Go bills! ?

Edited January 7, 2020 by JaCrispy

[Big Gun]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Stupid arguments?   -   remove the word nothing in your post  and you nailed it 100%.   you said so yourself --  See bold.

 

there is more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things!

 

Josh has to prove he can be better "at things" to remove all of my doubt. 

 

Nice, twisting my words and then trying to use that against what was said. What a piece of work you are! Done with you!

[2012spiller]

9 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Completion % up 6 points (52.8 - 58.8)
TD% up 1.2 % (3.1 - 4.3)
INT% down 1.8% (3.8 - 2)
TD/INT ratio up from 1:1 to 5:2
Adjudsted Y/A up 1.3 (5.4 - 6.7)
QB rating up 17.4 (67.9 - 85.3)

Generated the 6th most TDs in the NFL

 

All while having:

 

The highest percentage of passes dropped

The 3rd most passes thrown away

The 14th most passes tipped or batted down

Being blitzed the 2nd most of any QB

Tied for 1st on the least amount of time on blitzes, from snap to pressure/pass

Being 10th in least amount of separation by receivers at the point of the catch

Being 4th in the least amount of YAC by his receivers per attempt

Being 6th in the least amount of YAC by his receivers per completion

 

No other QB in the NFL comes close to ranking that low across all those categories. Just in the percentage of dropped passes, spikes, throw aways, and tipped/batted passes alone - at least 5% more of Allen's passes are dropped, spiked, thrown away, or tipped/batted than any other playoff QB, other than Brady. All the other QBs are between 8% and 10%.

 

Josh Allen                   15%
Tom Brady                   13%
Aaron Rodgers           10%
Kirk Cousins               10%
Patrick Mahomes      10%
Lamar Jackson          10%
Jimmy Garoppolo      9%
Russell Wilson            9%
Carson Wentz             9%
Deshaun Watson        9%
Ryan Tannehill            9%
Drew Brees                  8%

 

You could also see the improvement in his decision making, short to intermediate accuracy, moving through his progressions, etc.

 

He has a long way to go; however, he has improved a lot to this point. 

 

The narrative your pushing compared to the stats are a bit misleading.  Tipped balls have a lot to do with the quarterback and their throwing angles and release.  YAC is more on the quarterback’s ball placement  and the play design than the Wr.  The bills YAC would go up if Allen improves his accuracy on screens.  The amount of throw ways for Allen is driven by the fact he rolls out of the pocket too early instead of steppping up.  Once he rolls out he’s eliminates half the field and typical left with one receiver in outlet/triple coverage. Daboll and the wrs could do a better job at having wrs run routes going from the left side of the field to the right with different depth levels... 

 

that said he’s improved but still far from a franchise qb.  Last year I would say he was a 65/100 this year a 75/100.  He needs to do better at stepping up in the pocket, identifying blitzes pre snap,  know his hot reads and accurately hitting them.  Right now he’s very boom or bust and more bust than boom.

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, 2012spiller said:

 

The narrative your pushing compared to the stats are a bit misleading.  Tipped balls have a lot to do with the quarterback and their throwing angles and release.  YAC is more on the quarterback’s ball placement  and the play design than the Wr.  The bills YAC would go up if Allen improves his accuracy on screens.  The amount of throw ways for Allen is driven by the fact he rolls out of the pocket too early instead of steppping up.  Once he rolls out he’s eliminates half the field and typical left with one receiver in outlet/triple coverage. Daboll and the wrs could do a better job at having wrs run routes going from the left side of the field to the right with different depth levels... 

 

that said he’s improved but still far from a franchise qb.  Last year I would say he was a 65/100 this year a 75/100.  He needs to do better at stepping up in the pocket, identifying blitzes pre snap,  know his hot reads and accurately hitting them.  Right now he’s very boom or bust and more bust than boom.

 

Actually, tipped balls can have a lot to do with pressure and penetration; YAC is also about route running, separation, and ability of receivers; throw aways have just as much to do with pressure and receivers not being open. You can choose to believe all of it is because of Allen's weaknesses. that's your right. I'll choose recognize that, while Allen has his areas he needs to improve on, there are other areas of performance on offense that affect his production as well.

[thenorthremembers]

He went from somewhere near the bottom of the league to a top 15 player at his position.  

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

If he improved as much as you say, and he is still as bad as he is, we are in serious trouble... ?

 

In all seriousness, he improved this year a little...but next year he really needs to put it all together imo...I feel like he’s on the 7 year development plan...

 

By the time he throws a 300 yard game, the city should throw a ticker tape parade, erecting a statue that forever cements the occasion... 

 

I kid I kid...keep improving Josh...we all are counting on you... Go bills! ?

You have to admit that Bills fans have nothing if not faith and hope.  In gigantic quantities! 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

I'd much rather have my QB attempt a lateral to his bulldozer tight end on National TV then be hot mic'd saying he was seeing ghosts.  

 

I know based on that alone which player "wants it" more.  

 

I said it earlier.  If my QBs biggest flaw is he tries to do too much.....sign me up.  We've come a long way from "accuracy."