Brian Daboll has no future here

[Trogdor]

10 hours ago, Dopey said:

Star played a decent game, he didn't get trucked by a rb or whiff on tackles like Milano tonight. 

Over reaction Monday a couple of days early.

Almost every big hole they ran through was with star pushed off to the side. He also missed the tackle on the TD run. Whatever gap filler he is supposed to be is apparently the gap on the bench. It's why I hate the rotation so much. They can just not substitute and keep exploiting the same weak player over and over. 

[DCOrange]

5 hours ago, die hard bills fan said:

My issue is he doesn't change personnel.  It's the same all the time....Brown, Beasley, Singularity running the same plays...with a smattering of Knox, Foster and Mckenzie.  They are not scoring enough.   Activate Yeldon for more rb pass options and Duke as the bigger physical receiver to give the offense more options.  I don't  understand they don't use them.

Quote

Daboll leans into the Bills’ offensive identity more than ever

While Allen stole the show, the mastermind behind all of it is offensive coordinator Brian Daboll. Even though the results and execution weren’t there early in the season, Daboll’s approach and game plans have been smart and calculated. It’s taken some time to figure out who the offense can trust and what grouping puts the Bills in the best position to succeed. However, since the Cleveland game, Daboll and the Bills have been on a roll with their up-tempo, no-huddle, substitution-less brand of offense.

from Joe Buscaglia’s writeup after the Dallas game. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by DCOrange

[BringBackOrton]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Or maybe the OC is just used to working with a seasoned vet like Brady and doesn't actually understand the concept of getting a young QB in rhythm in order to build confidence.

 

Daboll does some good things, but overall it's our OC who isn't consistently executing, not our young QB, who essentially carried the team today and had a 102.7 Passer Rating.

I don’t know how you watched yesterday’s game and claimed our QB isn’t not consistently executing. 

[SectionC3]

7 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Lol this is dumb. The back shoulder corner end zone is not an easy shot as Kurt Warner said on TV. A lot of QBs miss on that time to time. Josh threw it safely so only his guy had a chance and we picked up 3 points on the drive. We lost by more than 4 buckaroo.

 

The throw wasn't back shoulder, nor should it have been.  It was on the last set of downs, meaning that we didn't score on the drive.  The route was open and it should have been a touchdown. 

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

Come on man, I get Allen wasn't on par the whole game but where is the help for him? If he's struggling to throw how about a screen pass? Did we even throw one? Does this OC know what a screen pass is? We got burned once again for what seems like the millionth time against Brady and the screen pass, why is it so hard for any OC who comes here to even attempt them? Easy throws that Allen can get some confidence from. Most of the throws are 20+ yards down field and that's not just on Allen, if he has designed runs why not designed screen passes to get his swagger back? This offense lacks any sort of creativity. Like when you saw the Eagles win the SB against Tom Brady do you think Daboll would have had even half the balls to run that Philly special? 

 

Our screen gane sucks. Have you not been watching all year?

[die hard bills fan]

41 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Daboll leans into the Bills’ offensive identity more than ever

While Allen stole the show, the mastermind behind all of it is offensive coordinator Brian Daboll. Even though the results and execution weren’t there early in the season, Daboll’s approach and game plans have been smart and calculated. It’s taken some time to figure out who the offense can trust and what grouping puts the Bills in the best position to succeed. However, since the Cleveland game, Daboll and the Bills have been on a roll with their up-tempo, no-huddle, substitution-less brand of offense.

from Joe Buscaglia’s writeup after the Dallas game. 

Yes this has worked against the  Miami's and Cincinnati's of the league, but against better teams it has not.  In their losses the Bills have averaged 15.8 points a game.  We are 22nd in the league in scoring at 19.9 per game.  If we are happy with mediocrity fine, if not try and change something. Use Duke,  Yeldon or whoever to add something they are lacking now. 

[Billsfan1972]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

https://theathletic.com/1480032/2019/12/22/7-observations-from-bills-patriots-josh-allens-moments-of-greatness-undone-by-inconsistency?source=shared-article

The infuriating end to the final drive

Regardless of the hot-and-cold quarterbacking Allen provided, the young quarterback was white-hot to begin their final offensive possession. He moved the ball with ease and racked up six first downs to get the Bills all the way down to New England’s 8-yard line. Despite all of their inefficiency throughout the game, Allen and the Bills had a good chance at forcing overtime. And then, the Bills got a bit too predictable for my liking.

 

Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll has done a good job for most of the season while trying to manage life with a high-variance second-year quarterback. However, Daboll’s personnel grouping decision starting with first-and-goal was a misfire. Heading into the game, wide receiver Andre Roberts had participated in 96 offensive snaps all season and had a grand total of three receptions to his name. Usually, when he’s in the game, it means the Bills are likely to run the ball to the edge to take advantage of his blocking prowess. There have been a few examples of the Bills trying something unique with Roberts on the field, but they tend to run it wide when he’s in the game. The Patriots saw this, played the odds and thwarted the Allen sweep left for a 1-yard loss, which also set the tone for the next three downs. Allen flat missed Knox on second down, but then the Bills were in a negative, 3rd-and-long situation. From there, the Patriots brought pressure to Allen; he couldn’t do anything with it, and New England escaped with a close win. The Bills could have put themselves in a much better position to keep the Patriots on their toes to start the goal-to-go situation by maintaining the personnel that helped get them there in the first place. The Bills had the Patriots guessing, and then they took the guesswork out of it with the game hanging in the balance.

Exactly what I thought......  Oh & how about a big body & target to throw to in these situations.  Again I think of Duke WIlliams TD's (regular & pre-season) & how simple the plays were.

 

That first down play doomed them.  

 

And again no screens or short passes out of the gate to get into a rhythm....  Everyone knows a run is coming on first down & always between the tackles. Infuriating to watch.

 

[White Linen]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

He referenced McDermott.

 

And Daboll

[Buffaloflash]

13 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yes, those 10+ yard passes that Allen missed wildly except for two ALL GAME was because Daboll wasn’t aggressive.

 

Allen elevates his game in the clutch and runs the offense correctly at that time. The rest of the game, not so much.

If you're old enough to remember,Marv recognized the same thing with Kelly and company.

He acted on it!

[Billsfan1972]

QB's miss passes all game, every game.....  Brady yesterday was accurate for the first time in weeks due to the Defense giving him too much time & respect.  

 

However when you throw only 25 times (9 in the last drive) the misses look worse.  

 

Add to that little to no time to throw because often in bad position & throwing dons it looks worse.

 

So difficult to watch week after week.

[Buffaloflash]

13 hours ago, Maynard said:

Oh yup, had nothing to do with it......Jesus 

 

14 hours ago, whorlnut said:

The offense wasn’t the reason we lost this game. 

Nope,just a part of.Tackling was not good.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, die hard bills fan said:

Yes this has worked against the  Miami's and Cincinnati's of the league, but against better teams it has not.  In their losses the Bills have averaged 15.8 points a game.  We are 22nd in the league in scoring at 19.9 per game.  If we are happy with mediocrity fine, if not try and change something. Use Duke,  Yeldon or whoever to add something they are lacking now. 

we are missing a WR, could use a TE1, a RB2, a RT and I’m not an Allen hater but It being ok that he’s sub 60% because he’s pushing the ball deep doesn’t jive with the lack of big chunks actually completed

 

we need more skill and more confidence on offense to hang with the big boys consistently. 

[Buffaloflash]

13 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

Story of the game is Allen hits Brown on a bomb td.  The D finally gets a stop .  We have a 17-13 lead  and instead of trying to expand it our offense goes out and Daboll runs Singeltary on back to back runs into a heavy run D front  Its been the same story all year  Team does not know how to go for the jugular  Too worried to make a mistake to make a big p;ay

So, in conclusion,that points to Daboll not trusting Allen.

[Tesla03]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

from Joe Buscaglia’s writeup after the Dallas game. 

 

the cowboys have one of the most vanilla plain defensive schemes in the league 

 

its why Tribusky looked like a HOF QB against them the week after we played them...

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It would be smarter to play to his ridiculous strengths than make him fit this offense. 

 

 

Agreed.

 

I get a lot of pushback when I talk about how bad this offense is..........I'm told it's not garbage it's just "bottom third".

 

Here's the harsh reality......this team scores less than the woeful 2013  EJ Manuel/Jeff Thuel/Thad Lewis offense did (21.2 to 20.5).

 

What's surprising is actually how well Allen HAS adapted...........if he makes those throws they are a top 10-12 scoring offense instead of "bottom third".

 

The thing is.........with a talent like Allen the ceiling is MUCH higher than that.

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[LabattBlue]

You can bring in a new OC, you can upgrade the WR position, you can upgrade the OL, etc...

 

 

but none of that will help with a QB who is not inaccurate, and despite "great wheels/ability to escape the rush in the pocket", still takes too many sacks at what always seems to be key points in a game.

 

He is a super likeable player, and I hope he succeeds, but he still has so far to go.  

 

Changing the OC does NOTHING but force your struggling young QB to learn a new system....in addition to improving other areas of his game.

Edited December 22, 2019 by LabattBlue

[Rebel101]

I agree. I was literally coming on here to post about how Daboll seems like a great “Coach” but his game calling just isn’t there. He refuses the same plays within minutes of each other. He doesn’t get Josh Allen a young QB in a rhythm to begin the game. He needs to have short quick reads for Allen to start off a game to get him confidence and in the game. Running the game for the first 8 plays or whatever it was is not going to get our young QB involved or confident to lead the team down the field when it matters. McDermott needs to work on his game day as well though. And I am all for McDermott and Beane. I think they are building something special. But McDermott is now being to scared to throw the challenge flag when before he used to throw it at horrible times. The pass interference when he didn’t throw it the other week and then last night not challenging that spot and just letting them continue down the field when we end up not even using our 3 first half timeouts is not a smart choice. But Daboll needs to get better or Josh is going to continue to struggle late in games

[Wayne Arnold]

lol Daboll is going nowhere. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Complaining about Daboll... SAD!

[Maine-iac]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Exactly what I thought......  Oh & how about a big body & target to throw to in these situations.  Again I think of Duke WIlliams TD's (regular & pre-season) & how simple the plays were.

 

That first down play doomed them.  

 

And again no screens or short passes out of the gate to get into a rhythm....  Everyone knows a run is coming on first down & always between the tackles. Infuriating to watch.

 

That article is all completely true but the interesting thing is how it states but brushes off the fact that the miss to Knox is a TD play that wins the game, Allen's a hero and the offense started slow but won the game.  I don't know that Daboll tore the Pats apart but a) it's the Pats and b) again the execution kept points off the board.  I've said it before I don't know that Daboll is next level like Roman or Kyle Shanahan but he's pretty good, especially given this units time together and thrown together OL.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Our screen gane sucks. Have you not been watching all year?

 

Yes that's what I'm saying, other teams even bad ones execute this maybe not to perfection like the good teams do. Is that not on Daboll to come up with something creative if our screen game sucks?

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I have defended Daboll a lot this year. I thought he was horrible yesterday. Ran it too much. Should have thrown deep earlier to open up the underneath throws more. Failed to identify the right matchups.... 

 

Yes, the oline played its worst game of the year. 

Yes, especially early Josh Allen had some horrible misses.

 

But I hated that gameplan. Awful. Someone has told him to run the ball more and we look worse for it. 

 

He might have the balls with 6 seconds left before HT and one shot to get in to throw a pass to his starting LT. 

 

There are many things this offense is missing. Creativity and trickery is definitely not one of them. 

 

Agree to disagree, I don't see nearly enough of those plays to say our OC is creative. In fact being at the bottom of the league in offense shows he isn't so I'm not sure why so many on here are defending it.

[SectionC3]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Our screen gane sucks. Have you not been watching all year?

thank you.  Spot on.  It’s the give and take of employing the guards that we have.  As far as the quoted comment about the Philly special goes, I submit that a guy who throws it twice w a WR this year, dedicates two entire goal line seuqences to trick plays this year, and throws to a tackle with no time on the clock at the end of the half yesterday should not have his courage questioned. 

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

we are missing a WR, could use a TE1, a RB2, a RT and I’m not an Allen hater but It being ok that he’s sub 60% because he’s pushing the ball deep doesn’t jive with the lack of big chunks actually completed

 

we need more skill and more confidence on offense to hang with the big boys consistently. 

I think we need a bigger x receiver.  Brown is best as a  y (at least in my view).  I consider Beasley to be our WR2, and the spot other than brown/Beasley has been a black hole lately.  McKenzie really aggravated me by failing to line up properly yesterday.  If you’re not going to help the team, at the very least you can’t hurt it with presnap errors. 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

17 hours ago, Tesla03 said:

 

Allen didn't play well but how come he always looks 10x better at the end of games when we need to score? almost as if daboll is playing aggressive instead of putting the offense in shackles 

Josh plays much better in a quick, uptempo offense, where he is just reading and reacting instinctively more than he does with Daboll’s garbage offensive gameplan.

 

Its like Daboll wants Josh to be somebody else for 3 quarters, but then ge 4th rolls around, he has no choice but to let Josh be Josh.

[Billever76]

Josh allen had a 100 QB rating 2 TDS no turnovers and hit on two deep balls...the defense was atrocious allowing 17 play drives and a 50% 3rd down completion..also numerous missed tackles and zero sacks or even pressure all night..no adjustments on defense and zero blitz..i hate when our coaches keep trying to hammer a losing game plan at our opposition all game long..has anyone seen an in game adjustment not just at halftime?...mind boggling how vanilla frazier was allowed to call the defense...i hate the conservative approach that this team keeps coming back to...playing fearless worked and now we are back to being afraid on defense and offense.....piss poor coaching again

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Josh allen had a 100 QB rating 2 TDS no turnovers and hit on two deep balls...the defense was atrocious allowing 17 play drives and a 50% 3rd down completion..also numerous missed tackles and zero sacks or even pressure all night..no adjustments on defense and zero blitz..i hate when our coaches keep trying to hammer a losing game plan at our opposition all game long..has anyone seen an in game adjustment not just at halftime?...mind boggling how vanilla frazier was allowed to call the defense...i hate the conservative approach that this team keeps coming back to...playing fearless worked and now we are back to being afraid on defense and offense.....piss poor coaching again

The defense scored under 20, again? And couldn’t sustain drives to get a breather?

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, DCOrange said:

from Joe Buscaglia’s writeup after the Dallas game. 

and since then they completely went away from it because it once again became predictable.  Everything he does is predictable. 

[Jerome007]

I am NOT on the fire Daboll bandwagon. But I do am baffled by the lack of screens, no TE involved in short passes (and very few to RBs too), of NOT at times tossing the ball to Singletarry instead of so often running up the gut, etc. Basically. the overall picture is good, and I do think he's using the players well, but some things are mind scratchers!

 

IDK if it's him or McD putting the stoppers on Josh, but he's no rookie anymore, has thrown very little picks since that dreadful first game against the Cheats, let him loose! Hell, even as a rookie at least they used his legs on some key 3rd downs. No need to be THAT conservative. Though wIth a good D, it is sound ro be more conservative than what most fans want, but let Allen be free in there. He's clutch, use him!

 

[Virgil]

It's interesting to me the difference in resolution angry people have after a loss to the Pats.  I'm as pissed as anyone, but don't think anyone should lose their jobs or be cut.  The coaching just needs to be better.  The defensive players executed the plays called, which weren't enough blitzes.  The offense ran the 11 formation inside runs, which became obvious.

 

We need to get better at RT as Ford got abused.  I really think a player like Hooper makes a big difference in this game on offense.  A dominant DE would have been nice as well, but we can't all have everything we want.

[Nitro]

Daboll has not gotten the most out of this offense.  His play calls have been predictable for long stretches, vanilla and then baffling.  There is a reason he has bounced around.  Seven jobs in 10 years.  His NFL record as a OC is putrid.  They rank in the bottom of the league.  He needs to go.  McD has to see that.

[wagon127]

Everybody will love our offense after we play houston in the wildcard week. I expect an even better performance then they played on thanksgiving.

[HappyDays]

18 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

If Allen hits those two touchdowns this thread isn’t here. 

 

The Patriots pass defense on average is allowing:

170.3 YPG

5.2 YPA

0.7 passing TDs per game

57.4 passer rating

 

Allen already did substantially better than each of those averages. If he had hit those 2 TDs on top of everything else he did, he would have had:

234 yards

9.0 YPA

4 passing TDs

127.2 passer rating

 

Do you think maybe your expectations are a little bit high?

 

The Patriots allow an average of 13 points to their opponents this year. In a game where our QB played well above their season average, we scored a mere 4 points more than their average. You don't think Daboll has anything to do with that?

Edited December 22, 2019 by HappyDays

[Jerome007]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Patriots pass defense on average is allowing:

170.3 YPG

5.2 YPA

0.7 passing TDs per game

57.4 passer rating

 

Allen already did substantially better than each of those averages. If he had hit those 2 TDs on top of everything else he did, he would have had:

234 yards

9.0 YPA

4 passing TDs

127.2 passer rating

 

Do you think maybe your expectations are a little bit high?

I at the same time agree, the opposing D (and coaches...) matter, his stats were good,  but he threw 2 TDs, not 4. I'm a HUGE Josh supporter, and certainly remain one. But yesterday he WAS dreadfully inaccurate in the 1st half until that beautiful pass to Knox. But, besides a couple of sacks, he was never confused in there, he made all the right decisions, he just wasn't accurate. But even for him that was a bad stretch, so it is positive regardless, as it will rarely happen to that extent.

 

I hate that his "haters" will use that 1st half as "proof" he sucks with all else he did! But no doubt it is frustrating, but I'll take that over Tyrod's extreme conservatism, guys throwing picks, QBs that can only dink & dunk, etc. Do I wish he'd not waste so many open guys? Of course! But overall his game is sound already. He's a superstar in the making and so called Bills fans vomiting all over him are so annoying.

[Nitro]

19 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

I am NOT on the fire Daboll bandwagon. But I do am baffled by the lack of screens, no TE involved in short passes (and very few to RBs too), of NOT at times tossing the ball to Singletarry instead of so often running up the gut, etc. Basically. the overall picture is good, and I do think he's using the players well, but some things are mind scratchers!

 

IDK if it's him or McD putting the stoppers on Josh, but he's no rookie anymore, has thrown very little picks since that dreadful first game against the Cheats, let him loose! Hell, even as a rookie at least they used his legs on some key 3rd downs. No need to be THAT conservative. Though wIth a good D, it is sound ro be more conservative than what most fans want, but let Allen be free in there. He's clutch, use him!

 

Do you know his record as a OC?  Offense rankings Cleveland 32nd and 29th,  Miami 22nd,  KC 24th and last year 30th.  Not a stellar record. 

[Rc2catch]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Patriots pass defense on average is allowing:

170.3 YPG

5.2 YPA

0.7 passing TDs per game

57.4 passer rating

 

Allen already did substantially better than each of those averages. If he had hit those 2 TDs on top of everything else he did, he would have had:

234 yards

9.0 YPA

4 passing TDs

127.2 passer rating

 

Do you think maybe your expectations are a little bit high?

 

The Patriots allow an average of 13 points to their opponents this year. In a game where our QB played well above their season average, we scored a mere 4 points more than their average. You don't think Daboll has anything to do with that?

Ummmm I have mostly supported daboll. 
My point was if Allen hits those two passes to Knox we don’t have pages and pages of daboll needs to go. We lost and there needs to be some whipping boys for the week.  I have defended him quite a bit and he’s a little sketchy at times and stubborn but he’s had this offense in position to win every game minus maybe philly. Daboll and Allen go hand in hand and are not playing well off of each other or making each other look better. Daboll hamstrings Allen with play calling at times and Allen hamstrings dabolls playcalling at times. 

[Nitro]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Patriots pass defense on average is allowing:

170.3 YPG

5.2 YPA

0.7 passing TDs per game

57.4 passer rating

 

Allen already did substantially better than each of those averages. If he had hit those 2 TDs on top of everything else he did, he would have had:

234 yards

9.0 YPA

4 passing TDs

127.2 passer rating

 

Do you think maybe your expectations are a little bit high?

 

The Patriots allow an average of 13 points to their opponents this year. In a game where our QB played well above their season average, we scored a mere 4 points more than their average. You don't think Daboll has anything to do with that?

I had no real problem with Josh Allen yesterday.  Play calling seemed to hand cuff the offense.  The offensive line was sub par and any QB would be inaccurate when he can not step into throws.   I thought if the Bills got 20 they would have won but the defense (second in the NFL) was again out coached.  On to NY Jets. 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Do you know his record as a OC?  Offense rankings Cleveland 32nd and 29th,  Miami 22nd,  KC 24th and last year 30th.  Not a stellar record. 

 

...other than his tenure with Mangini in Cleveland, why are his OC gigs all annual, or year stops?.....ability?....regime changes?....victim of circumstance?....anybody??......

[TheFunPolice]

Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will hire him as a HC

[Jerome007]

2 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I thought if the Bills got 20 they would have won but the defense (second in the NFL) was again out coached. 

Were they outcoached? IDK why, but they really played a simple, near vanilla defense. It was obviously on purpose but I just don't get it! It was clear as day after a quarter that they needed some blitzes to put some pressure on Brady, who was way too relaxed in there. And since it's an OC thread, the Cheats offensive plays were VERY well designed. I had no damn clue what they were going to do. So much variety, well executed. But back to the Bills, I simply don't understand why they chose to have such a simple game plan on defense!

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will hire him as a HC

And the next guy would have McDermott ordering him to run more and play close to the vest. 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

My point was if Allen hits those two passes to Knox we don’t have pages and pages of daboll needs to go.

 

If Allen had hit both of those throws against that defense with this supporting cast it would have been an unbelievable performance, like Aaron Rodgers in his prime. If we're relying on Allen to hit 4 amazing TD throws against one of the pass defenses in history, something is wrong with the offense. If he had hit those 2 throws it wouldn't excuse Daboll for his awful game plan.

 

I think our play calling in the run game this year has mostly been terrible. A lot of our big runs are just Singletary making improbable plays or Allen scrambling. Daboll doesn't know how to mix up passes and runs on 1st downs. Earlier in the year it was all passes, now it's all runs. It's like he doesn't understand how to keep defenses off balance. Our short yardage plays have been terrible. Even the 4th and 1 QB sneak yesterday was not a good play, Allen just made it work. We're still running the same predictable QB sweep that hasn't worked since the bye week. Daboll has been bailed out a ton this year. Our offense has no rhythm at all.

Edited December 22, 2019 by HappyDays