Just Joshin' Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Jauronimo said: So why doesn't everybody just do it on every play? Its legal and there's no downside. Downside is missed tackles. When punching you are not wrapping up the carrier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: That’s not what I am arguing. I understood what you are saying and players have tried to punch balls out forever. That’s not the point. The point is if you miss and just punch a player in the chest or gut or balls it should be a penalty. Like if you try to swat a ball away from a QB but miss and hit him in the helmet it is a penalty. I’ve been watching football for over 50 years. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player swing as hard as Watt did with a punch, miss the ball and hit the player. That can’t be legal or guys would do it all the time. But it is legal. And they don't do it every time. For reasons I have already explained. That was the point. So no, you do not understand what I am saying. At all. 2 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Downside is missed tackles. When punching you are not wrapping up the carrier. Which is exactly what I have explained repeatedly in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plano Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Watt is going to regret throwing those punches so hard. I can respect trying to cause the fumbles but he’s going to shatter that hand at some point. THIS! X10000000. He's going to miss in traffic and punch someones helmet and be out for the season. 2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: Had the Bills punched Watt they'd get a PF and possible ejection. thats why you wait until you are in a pile with him and then gauge his eyes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Watt missed the ball and Allen still almost fumbled it away HAHAHA! So now he gets ripped for "almost" fumbling? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 12 hours ago, Stenbar said: That play should be a penalty. You can't freaking punch someone with the hopes of jarring the ball loose. If that is the case then just start punching the hell out of everyone that has possession. Start drafting MMA fighters to force fumbles. LOL...What a freaking joke. SHould be a unsportsmanlike and a automatic ejection and fine. I know it is not a rule now but going forward they need to change that immediately This x1000 I'm all for trying to chop it out etc, but this seems like it is taking it to another level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I put this here once before. This thread calls for it again... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JROC INTEL Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Josh is going to fumble more. He is still not grabbing it with both hands during tackles and I see him extending his arm while being tackled as well. He's not doing enough to secure it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: But it is legal. And they don't do it every time. For reasons I have already explained. That was the point. So no, you do not understand what I am saying. At all. Which is exactly what I have explained repeatedly in this thread. So, your contention is that a missed punch that connects with a QBs nuts or noggin won't be flagged? You're daft, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? Allen really is Superman... nobody can hold onto the ball after a Watt Tomahawk chop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: That’s not what I am arguing. I understood what you are saying and players have tried to punch balls out forever. That’s not the point. The point is if you miss and just punch a player in the chest or gut or balls it should be a penalty. Like if you try to swat a ball away from a QB but miss and hit him in the helmet it is a penalty. I’ve been watching football for over 50 years. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player swing as hard as Watt did with a punch, miss the ball and hit the player. That can’t be legal or guys would do it all the time. I agree with you. I'm willing to accept what Watt did was legal but just like the NFL has made it, if you try to tackle lower but you miss and hit the helmet it's a penalty - I think punching at the ball and missing, hitting the player in the chest like that should be a penalty. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? It’s clear he pinched the wrong ball. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Plano said: thats why you wait until you are in a pile with him and then gauge his eyes Why no team would have a player do that....Oh Wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Doc said: If Watt had connected the ball, no one would have been able to avoid fumbling. Yep, looks like a Watt Whiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Utah John said: It sure looked to me that Watt missed the ball, either completely or nearly so, but Allen went down exactly like you'd expect a man to do when punched in the balls. He was being tackled from behind and got up without any indication that he was even slightly hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Probably unnecessary to wind up for a haymaker punch like that for the ball. Easy to miss certainly doesn't look like good technique from Watt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 How is this legal? I can see this being banned at some point because it would be easy for someone to just take a shot at an opposing player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Sorry if this has been asked already but I'm not going to read this whole thread. Does anyone know if its legal to punch the ball carrier in an attempt to force a fumble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 17 hours ago, RiotAct said: was this the one fairly late in the game? I thought for sure he whiffed completely but I guess not Looking at the video, I think it's a whiff. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Sorry if this has been asked already but I'm not going to read this whole thread. Does anyone know if its legal to punch the ball carrier in an attempt to force a fumble? Yes, it's legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Sorry if this has been asked already but I'm not going to read this whole thread. Does anyone know if its legal to punch the ball carrier in an attempt to force a fumble? I wondered the same damn thing. but in answer I don’t think so. only if in anger is my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 17 hours ago, Stenbar said: That play should be a penalty. You can't freaking punch someone with the hopes of jarring the ball loose. If that is the case then just start punching the hell out of everyone that has possession. Start drafting MMA fighters to force fumbles. LOL...What a freaking joke. SHould be a unsportsmanlike and a automatic ejection and fine. I know it is not a rule now but going forward they need to change that immediately This... If you punch and miss the ball it should be a penalty, maybe just that act alone should be punishable. It’s the same as slashing in hockey if you ask me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 So. Would you say it was more like this: Or like this: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 He was lucky the punch didn't go thru to his stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Should be unnecessary roughness. Obviously its not intentional but you cant go around punching people. He missed the ball and hit Allen. Defintiok of unnecessary roughness 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Kmart128 said: Should be unnecessary roughness. Obviously its not intentional but you cant go around punching people. He missed the ball and hit Allen. Defintiok of unnecessary roughness Great point. Does anyone know whether or not punching the ball carrier is even legal?? It can't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Down goes allen after the punch to the nuts. How long till the NFL outlaws that type of punch lol that was a broader line roughness call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 11:56 PM, Ethan in Portland said: Watt missed the ball and Allen still almost fumbled it away Yeah because he got hit in the sack lol who wouldn't drop the ball after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 20 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: My first thought as well. If you get the ball, fine. Otherwise, personal foul with an ejection. Throwing a punch is an automatic ejection, why shouldn’t it be in this case? Throwing a punch isn't an automatic ejection. It's an automatic rejection when not part of the play. If an OL punches a rusher in the chest, no problem. It's a (very very dumb) form of blocking (likely to lead to a broken hand and a DL who doesn't notice he's been hit). It's more dangerous to the puncher than the punched is the problem. Open-hand punches to the chest are standard blocking protocol. Again, punching a guy delivers much much less force than hitting him with standard tackling form. That's why standard tackling form is taught that way. Punch an RB and he'll run right through it. Plant a shoulder in the same place and he's down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Throwing a punch isn't an automatic ejection. It's an automatic rejection when not part of the play. If an OL punches a rusher in the chest, no problem. It's a (very very dumb) form of blocking (likely to lead to a broken hand and a DL who doesn't notice he's been hit). It's more dangerous to the puncher than the punched is the problem. Open-hand punches to the chest are standard blocking protocol. Again, punching a guy delivers much much less force than hitting him with standard tackling form. That's why standard tackling form is taught that way. Punch an RB and he'll run right through it. Plant a shoulder in the same place and he's down. Well, that's your opinion. The question is and has been is it LEGAL to punch the ball carrier. The jury is still out on that issue since NO ONE has even attempted to answer the question. I'm skeptical about the legality because IF it WAS legal, why wouldn't everyone do it on every single play??!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 11:43 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? i thought throwing punches was illegal ? what if he missed ball and knocked the wind out him or hit em in the privates ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: Well, that's your opinion. The question is and has been is it LEGAL to punch the ball carrier. The jury is still out on that issue since NO ONE has even attempted to answer the question. I'm skeptical about the legality because IF it WAS legal, why wouldn't everyone do it on every single play??!?!?! If a player punches at the ball and contacts it, it should be legal. If he misses and hits the player, it should be a penalty. Similar to being able to hit a punter/kicker if you can contact the ball first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc said: If a player punches at the ball and contacts it, it should be legal. If he misses and hits the player, it should be a penalty. Similar to being able to hit a punter/kicker if you can contact the ball first. Use of the word should suggests you don't actually know the rules. Some questions just weren't meant to be answered repeatedly earlier in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Watt sees that a teammate is about to tackle Allen from behind, so why not throw an Ivan Drago punch to the ball, totally miss that punch to the ball and hit Allen in the Rocky's. No harm no foul................. unless you are Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Kicking the ball is legal too. It happens all the time on field goals and kickoffs. Maybe DBs should start trying to karate kick opposing players in hopes of dislodging the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 11:43 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? Allen didnt fumble because he missed the ball completely! and i think he got him in the ol frank n beans too. (not intentionally) 16 hours ago, Kmart128 said: Should be unnecessary roughness. Obviously its not intentional but you cant go around punching people. He missed the ball and hit Allen. Defintiok of unnecessary roughness Thats a tough call make at full speed and from the refs angle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Kicking the ball is legal too. It happens all the time on field goals and kickoffs. Maybe DBs should start trying to karate kick opposing players in hopes of dislodging the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Looks like he might of hit the tip to me. Not even sure he touched the Football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 18 hours ago, Kmart128 said: Should be unnecessary roughness. Obviously its not intentional but you cant go around punching people. He missed the ball and hit Allen. Defintiok of unnecessary roughness Stop, he was clearly going after the ball and missed. Nothing unnecessary about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 So this week it will be fine to throw punches at Brady's kidneys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Jauronimo said: Use of the word should suggests you don't actually know the rules. Some questions just weren't meant to be answered repeatedly earlier in this thread. Cool story bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Kicking the ball is legal too. It happens all the time on field goals and kickoffs. Maybe DBs should start trying to karate kick opposing players in hopes of dislodging the ball. You can't throw your leg to block or tackle, especially when you're playing NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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