Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’m a big Allen fan and believer, was even on draft night.  But I am going to be unbiased here.  
 

A thread like this is just as silly as a bash thread after one bad game.  I mean Allen and the offense were coming off a subpar performance, so seems premature to do a I told you so thread after beating up on a weak opponent this week.  
 

Keeping perspective:  1 game - vs a very bad team missing it’s 2 remaining best defensive players due to injury.  
 

Thrilled to see Allen and the offense have a great game.  But also not really a “I told you so” game either when we did what was expected of us.  
 

That being said, Allen has definitely progressed, and to me that was obvious even before this game today.  We got a much tougher schedule ahead of us, so let’s hope they build on today’s strong performance and keep growing.

 

Excited to see how he and this team performs down the stretch during the tough parts of our schedule.  

Great post

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

Seriously?  Allen sucked last week, the detractors screamed they were right.  He had a good week this week, his supporters are screaming they are right.

What both groups miss is that one game doesn't prove anything, either way.  You're all idiots.

 

I actually posted about this in the pregame thread.

 

By what criteria did Allen “suck” last week?  He was asked to carry the team on his arm, and he came within a few plays (made or not made on all 3 parts of the team) of answering the bell.  It actually took me a while to go back and really watch the Browns game because of all the “sucks” clamor and when I did, I was actually pleasantly surprised by a lot of what I saw.  There were several poor decisions, but there was also a lot of standing in, making his reads, making reasonable decisions about where to go with the ball.  There were about 7 plays through the game where a catchable ball was not hauled in either due to stout defense, uncalled DPI, or it being beyond the skill level of what our players can handle (but not beyond what I see elsewhere each week).  

 

He isn’t anywhere close to where he wants to be, or where we need him to be, but between last year and this year?  Damn straight there’s progress.

 

And it’s easier to see in this week’s game, because of the success.

 

That’s what the subject of this thread is: not “did this game prove that Allen is Da Man”, but “can you look at this game, and admit that you see growth?”

 

There really should only be one answer to that, even if there are different conclusions (encouraged/positive about his future vs thinking he still falls short).

[BillsFanSD]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’m a big Allen fan and believer, was even on draft night.  But I am going to be unbiased here.  
 

A thread like this is just as silly as a bash thread after one bad game.  I mean Allen and the offense were coming off a subpar performance, so seems premature to do a I told you so thread after beating up on a weak opponent this week.  
 

Keeping perspective:  1 game - vs a very bad team missing it’s 2 remaining best defensive players due to injury.  
 

Thrilled to see Allen and the offense have a great game.  But also not really a “I told you so” game either when we did what was expected of us.  
 

That being said, Allen has definitely progressed, and to me that was obvious even before this game today.  We got a much tougher schedule ahead of us, so let’s hope they build on today’s strong performance and keep growing.

 

Excited to see how he and this team performs down the stretch during the tough parts of our schedule.  

Yep.  Very well said.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

He improved today.  However, his out passes remain quite problematic.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

Yes I agree with everything you've said. He checked into a good run that beat the Blitz and showed a vet throw to make an easier field goal on a field goal drive. Probably his best game as a Bill. 

 

There are things to consider aswell. It was the Dolphins of which Allen has always played well and there were a couple of quick 3 and outs with inaccurate passes that we tend to see more of on some days. This was a good day in the main! . Lets keep it balanced. 

Yeah and I just Tom Brady do the same thing this afternoon vs Eagles.

[Kelly the Dog]

This was the first game in Allen's entire two years that he got consistent good pass blocking. And he had four TDs, no sacks, no turnovers, and we scored 37 points. Yes, the Fins stink and that was a big point. But it is an equal point that he gets crappy blocking a lot. He got great blocking for the first time and played very well, more confident, more efficient, etc. 

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Against a team he was supposed to put up good numbers against, Allen comes through.

 

Stat line: 21-33 for 256 yards and 3 TD'S

                 7 carries for 56 yards and 1 TD

                 7.8 yards per att and 117.7 rtg

 

He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. The young man is growing as a QB and that should be evident to all.

Start stacking games like this together and the people trying to make their pre draft narrative stick will go by the wayside

[Real McClappy]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’m a big Allen fan and believer, was even on draft night.  But I am going to be unbiased here.  
 

A thread like this is just as silly as a bash thread after one bad game.  I mean Allen and the offense were coming off a subpar performance, so seems premature to do a I told you so thread after beating up on a weak opponent this week.  
 

Keeping perspective:  1 game - vs a very bad team missing it’s 2 remaining best defensive players due to injury.  
 

Thrilled to see Allen and the offense have a great game.  But also not really a “I told you so” game either when we did what was expected of us.  
 

That being said, Allen has definitely progressed, and to me that was obvious even before this game today.  We got a much tougher schedule ahead of us, so let’s hope they build on today’s strong performance and keep growing.

 

Excited to see how he and this team performs down the stretch during the tough parts of our schedule.  

IDK, the thread is about Allen's growth. 

This is the most complete 4qtr game he has played as a pro. From prior weeks up until this week I see development or growth overall.  It's a decent thread to talk about it. 

Next phase would be the consistency or carry over. I hope to see a similar performance against the Broncos. Even last week against the Browns I felt he played decent. O was sluggish overall but he did pop us in a position to win the game late in the 4th qtr. 

 

 

 

 

[dubs]

I was really down on him after last game (for the first time actually). Thought he played really really well today!

[Scott7975]

23 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree, I wonder if you only looked at passes from say 8 to 20 yards how his completion percentage would compare.

Today? Roughly 9/14.  So about 64.2%.  Allen is top 10 in completion% between the 10-20 yard mark.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Scott7975

[BringBackFergy]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Wait 1 game? I want consistency... EVERYONE wants consistency. ***** people put up these attack threads over 1 game, its pathetic.

What was Rosen’s stat line today? Oh wait....oops....sorry. 

[Hebert19]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Against a team he was supposed to put up good numbers against, Allen comes through.

 

Stat line: 21-33 for 256 yards and 3 TD'S

                 7 carries for 56 yards and 1 TD

                 7.8 yards per att and 117.7 rtg

 

He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. The young man is growing as a QB and that should be evident to all.

How about 13 total touchdowns and 0 interceptions in the last 5 games.  That's pretty good for all you non allen folks.

[BuffaloBills1998]

15 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

He improved today.  However, his out passes remain quite problematic.

I don’t want to sound like an a**hole, but it seems to me for all Buffalo fans that nothing is ever good enough, and you guys look for stuff to complain about , don’t get me wrong there’s been plenty to complain about for this organization, but Allen is only 23 and has played only 15-16 games as a starter. We have to let him grow and work through the growing pains, look at Cam Newton in the beginning. How long did it take for the panthers to make the playoffs when they drafted Newton and how long did it take for it to finally click for newton? Same thing with Steve Young. After a couple of years in the league Guy was listed as a draft bust out of Tampa and ends up becoming a Hall of Famer in San Francisco and becomes the man that ran Montana out of town. In a way the same thing could be said about Vinny Testaverde, you have to give these guys time To adapt and grow this team will never win if we keep playing the carousel of quarterbacks like we’ve been doing since 1999 and even when we had Doug Flutie. We can’t keep giving these guys one or two years and then throwing them on the street, i’ve watch this organization ruin many careers because of their incompetence of the quarterback position.

[Hebert19]

Ps.  Wentz sucks. 

[Victory Formation]

I’m not a detractor, I have been firmly behind TEAM Allen since the day we drafted him but this stretch coming up after the Broncos is tough, it’s definitely a bad neighborhood to be in. We need to see Allen sprinkle in a few more games like this one. Good job though.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Wait 1 game? I want consistency... EVERYONE wants consistency. ***** people put up these attack threads over 1 game, its pathetic.

 

But in some ways Allen has been very consistent - consistently good.  Two stats that come to mind:

 

*  Allen has had 6 straight games scoring at least 2 TD's.  This places him among some rarefied QB company.

 

*  Allen has gone 5 games without throwing an INT.  This is another mark of consistency.  Sure he needs to improve in some other areas of his game but it's not all on him.  He needs more help on O.  But bottom line is that he's become more consistent in some pretty critical QB metrics.

[LSHMEAB]

43 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Yeah and I just Tom Brady do the same thing this afternoon vs Eagles.

That Patriots team would be DANGEROUS if they had a QB. I'm only half joking.

[TJC25]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I don’t want to sound like an a**hole, but it seems to me for all Buffalo fans that nothing is ever good enough, and you guys look for stuff to complain about , don’t get me wrong there’s been plenty to complain about for this organization, but Allen is only 23 and has played only 15-16 games as a starter. We have to let him grow and work through the growing pains, look at Cam Newton in the beginning. How long did it take for the panthers to make the playoffs when they drafted Newton and how long did it take for it to finally click for newton? Same thing with Steve Young. After a couple of years in the league Guy was listed as a draft bust out of Tampa and ends up becoming a Hall of Famer in San Francisco and becomes the man that ran Montana out of town. In a way the same thing could be said about Vinny Testaverde, you have to give these guys time To adapt and grow this team will never win if we keep playing the carousel of quarterbacks like we’ve been doing since 1999 and even when we had Doug Flutie. We can’t keep giving these guys one or two years and then throwing them on the street, i’ve watch this organization ruin many careers because of their incompetence of the quarterback position.

See this is where i get lost. Yes Steve young stunk in tampa, peyton lead leauge in picks, jim kelly was 6-10 in year two these examples mean nothing. For every great turnaround there are many more busts. Josh will be josh he will write his own path and we will have to see where it goes good or bad we are all here for the ride!!

[LSHMEAB]

19 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Ps.  Wentz sucks. 

Man O Man.

 

I don't think Wentz sucks, but if there is such a thing as a clutch gene, he doesn't have it. 

 

Those erratic throws on the last possession were brutal. Not talking about the throw to Agholor. Talking about the gimmies he missed once they got within striking distance of the EZ. Awful.

Edited November 18, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Hebert19]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Man O Man.

 

I don't think Wentz sucks, but if there is such a thing as a clutch gene, he doesn't have it. 

 

Those erratic throws on the last possession were brutal. Not talking about the throw to Jeffrey. Talking about the gimmies he missed once they got within striking distance of the EZ.

Ya.  He has world of talent but doesn't have 'it'  same with goff. 

[tcampbell104]

34 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

What was Rosen’s stat line today? Oh wait....oops....sorry. 

i wonder if there are any wrong josh guys left

[CountDorkula]

Congrats he played well against the !!!!!!  team in football. 

 

Do it again next week. And then play well the week after, and then the week after that. 

 

If you you can only beat teams that are bad you won’t win much. 

 

Great game by the offense, do it again. 

 

[Moderator Edited]

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, tcampbell104 said:

i wonder if there are any wrong josh guys left

Sure they are hanging out with the earth is flat people

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Congrats he played well against the shittiest team in football. 

 

Do it again next week. And then play well the week after, and then the week after that. 

 

If you you can only beat teams that are bad you won’t win much. 

 

Great game by the offense, do it again. 

It hardly seems reasonable let alone fair that a QB can only suck against an inferior team. He can get any amount of blame but he can get no credit. 

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Congrats he played well against the shittiest team in football. 

 

Do it again next week. And then play well the week after, and then the week after that. 

 

If you you can only beat teams that are bad you won’t win much. 

 

Great game by the offense, do it again. 

 

I don't think this is a thread about "Is Josh Allen a franchise QB."  It's more of a thread about "Do you see improvement in Josh Allen."

 

Personally, I see lots of improvement in Josh on some things.  I also see a lot of areas where Josh needs to improve upon.  The kid was never going to be Mahomes in his second season.  There are people here that simply refuse to think Josh ever might be good.  There are people in the media that also refuse to think that.  The kid needs time.  While I would love to see him be Brady this year, people need to be patient. As long as there is growth, which there is, then he has a chance.  It's just not as fast as people want it.

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It hardly seems reasonable let alone fair that a QB can only suck against an inferior team. He can get any amount of blame but he can get no credit. 

Did I not say great game?

 

They played well against a bad team. 

Do it again next week and the week after. 

Consistency, that’s what I am looking for. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Man O Man.

 

I don't think Wentz sucks, but if there is such a thing as a clutch gene, he doesn't have it. 

 

Those erratic throws on the last possession were brutal. Not talking about the throw to Agholor. Talking about the gimmies he missed once they got within striking distance of the EZ. Awful.

 

It seems possible to me that the difference that extra fraction of a second of protection makes for a QB is under-appreciated.

[Another Fan]

I see games like this as a sort of lose lose in the Allen is going to be better than Jim Kelly argument.  If Allen plays well you’ll just here why can’t he play like that against the Patriots?  If he stinks then you’ll just here he’s so bad he can’t even beat the Dolphins.

 

Im still not 100% sold on Josh yet but can’t deny he played well today 

[Figster]

17 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Did I not say great game?

 

They played well against a bad team. 

Do it again next week and the week after. 

Consistency, that’s what I am looking for. 

 McDs thoughts I'm sure.  

 

It was refreshing for one game anyway, to see a higher number of plays executed with success.

 

Something to build on perhaps...

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Definitely being a team trying to tank, who was without their top 4 secondary players, made me reconsider everything.

 

good game (which he always has against Miami) but do it consistently and against a good team. 

[Kelly the Dog]

32 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Did I not say great game?

 

They played well against a bad team. 

Do it again next week and the week after. 

Consistency, that’s what I am looking for. 

I didn’t really mean you specifically. But it’s as if you and others are saying great or good BUT...  versus great or good AND I would like to see consistency...

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Definitely being a team trying to tank, who was without their top 4 secondary players

 

Neither of these statements is true. They are on a 2 game winning streak and Reshad Jones was playing. 

[CaptnCoke11]

I’m an Allen supporter but i will be critical of him at times.  I’m really curious to see how he’s going to do in these next 5 games against some really good defenses.  

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Neither of these statements is true. They are on a 2 game winning streak and Reshad Jones was playing. 

They beat the Jets and the Colts starting their 3rd string qb.  They traded Fitzpatrick (in line to be DPOY), didn’t have Howard, and a 2 other cbs.  
 

I’m glad he played well.  But Miami is dog crap.  Kinda silly to overrate it.  But hopefully, the confidence will lead to good performance against good teams. 
 

but 7-3 is 7-3

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

This was the first game in Allen's entire two years that he got consistent good pass blocking. And he had four TDs, no sacks, no turnovers, and we scored 37 points. Yes, the Fins stink and that was a big point. But it is an equal point that he gets crappy blocking a lot. He got great blocking for the first time and played very well, more confident, more efficient, etc. 

small point of order, the Fins were on their  way to salvaging a lower draft pick in the draft before they ran into the buzzsaw today—Do they still stink—sure, compared to the top of the division, of course. But Fitzy had them playing to win the last couple weeks before today. 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Kinda silly to overrate it.

 

Who's overrating it? He has clearly shown growth this year, and this game was another step forward. Everyone knows he has to show more consistency. The whole offense does.

[LSHMEAB]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It seems possible to me that the difference that extra fraction of a second of protection makes for a QB is under-appreciated.

Fair enough, but the egregiously errant crucial passes on the final drive were not overly rushed. They were made from a clean pocket by NFL standards.

 

Again, I'm not referring to the desperation heave to Aghalor. 

 

I'm not sure if you watched the final drive, but I put those particular throws on the QB.

 

Certainly not disputing that those extra few seconds alter throws nor am I dismissing the role solid protection plays for a QB's rhythm/timing/production.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Fair enough, but the egregiously errant crucial passes on the final drive were not overly rushed. They were made from a clean pocket by NFL standards.

 

Again, I'm not referring to the desperation heave to Aghalor. 

 

I'm not sure if you watched the final drive, but I put those particular throws on the QB.

 

Certainly not disputing that those extra few seconds alter throws nor am I dismissing the role solid protection plays for a QB's rhythm/timing/production.

 

I saw the final drive and thought he was pressured.  There might have been a couple where he had more time but “heard footsteps”.  

At this point I’d have to watch it again to see which of us remembers it right

[SmokinES3]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Today was probably his best game. 

 

I don't think anyone sensible would dispute there has been progress from last year. That said, in the same way as nobody was asking to bench him last week nobody should be crowning him this week. 

 

This was a very encouraging performance now we need to see that consistency game to game. 

This

[Cripple Creek]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Against a team he was supposed to put up good numbers against, Allen comes through.

 

Stat line: 21-33 for 256 yards and 3 TD'S

                 7 carries for 56 yards and 1 TD

                 7.8 yards per att and 117.7 rtg

 

He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. The young man is growing as a QB and that should be evident to all.

Not a "detractor" but maybe his best overall game?  Is there a correlation with Daboll also calling a good game?  Stay upstairs Brian.