Why the Zay Hate?

[DKBills25]

18 hours ago, Virgil said:

Can someone please tell me what Zay did, or didn’t do, yesterday to call for the hate?  I see people saying cut him immediately.  
 

I can’t remember a play with him where I thought he was the reason we sucked.  The guy isn’t even out there that much.  
 

Overall, he hasn’t lived up to his draft status and physical traits, but I don’t see how yesterday was the deal breaker.  
 

What am I missing?

The guys is a none factor , That’s the problem. He is the biggest wide out and doing the least amount of work ... honestly hasn’t done anything for us in his career 

[Ol Dirty B]

I was more surprised Zay had this many detractors. He was getting killed yesterday on the postgame.

 

In my opinion, those interceptions are all on Allen. Only Bills fans want to deflect the blame, but if this misguided blame is what it takes to get rid of the bum. Go on, please blame Zay for two of Allen's horrendous throws. Zay was not the issue on those interceptions.

[BillsShredder83]

18 hours ago, Virgil said:

Can someone please tell me what Zay did, or didn’t do, yesterday to call for the hate?  I see people saying cut him immediately.  
 

I can’t remember a play with him where I thought he was the reason we sucked.  The guy isn’t even out there that much.  
 

Overall, he hasn’t lived up to his draft status and physical traits, but I don’t see how yesterday was the deal breaker.  
 

What am I missing?

Specifically one of the pics he could've contested the catch or even pushed the dude out on the sideline and dint seem to care at all. I've been a defender thinking, give him time to develop, but I've seen enough. I dont want him here, and I think a change of scenery might help his 'yips' catching the ball

[Ol Dirty B]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

10 targets, 2 catches. What is it you see good about him?

 

I mean the 5 yard overthrows and underthrows. What amount of thosw targets do you think were realistically catchable?

 

I don't like Zay as a player. I didn't like the pick, I'm biased against him. But he has gotten a lot of garbage throws in his direction the last 3 weeks.

 

[Lfod]

I forgotten about Zay way back when he had that freak out incident. Ever since then it's been a prove me wrong sort of position for me. 

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, BillsShredder83 said:

Specifically one of the pics he could've contested the catch or even pushed the dude out on the sideline and dint seem to care at all. I've been a defender thinking, give him time to develop, but I've seen enough. I dont want him here, and I think a change of scenery might help his 'yips' catching the ball

 

The throw wasn't intended for him, and it was more on Allen for deciding to make that horrible throw.

 

How can a QB loft a throw into a space of three DB's and the WR it wasn't even intended for gets the blame is beyond me.

[BillsShredder83]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

The throw wasn't intended for him, and it was more on Allen for deciding to make that horrible throw.

 

How can a QB loft a throw into a space of three DB's and the WR it wasn't even intended for gets the blame is beyond me.

It's a matter of effort. Were not a team full of superstars, need to play as a unit and pick up slack where it can be picked up. Only as strong as our weakest link with that roster build. The DB was in the air, would've taken the smallest effort push to have him landing out of bounds. 

[Romie]

18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He is the worst player in the nfl at any position.  Prove me wrong. 

Nathan Peterman

[CSBill]

19 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I’ll answer.  Nothing.  Aside from training well in the offseason.  No situational awareness on the picks, looked like a tough but makeable catch in the end zone, otherwise no impact on the game.  To draw a baseball analogy, he’s a .250 hitter with no power and no speed.  It’s time to get some more speed on the field.  

 

perfect analogy

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, phypon said:

I'm going for "dropped passes and can't catch a cold" for $1 Alex...answer....Zay Jones!

 

I’m  guessing you’ve never actually seen the show Jeopardy? 

20 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He is the worst player in the nfl at any position.  Prove me wrong. 

 

Hes not even the worst player on his team, at just the position WR

 

The proof is the line of guys behind him that can’t take his reps because the whole WR unit still isn’t good enough. 

 

gee that was tough 

 

 

[phypon]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I’m  guessing you’ve never actually seen the show Jeopardy? 

 

 

I guess I should have said, "Who is Zay Jones?".  Apparently, you don't know who he is.  I'll fill you in, he's the guy on the team that runs bad routes and does not have very good hands.  Sometimes coaching staffs stick with a guy too long.  I'll be surprised if he makes it through the full season.

[jimmy10]

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I was more surprised Zay had this many detractors. He was getting killed yesterday on the postgame.

 

In my opinion, those interceptions are all on Allen. Only Bills fans want to deflect the blame, but if this misguided blame is what it takes to get rid of the bum. Go on, please blame Zay for two of Allen's horrendous throws. Zay was not the issue on those interceptions.

 

Yes, the throws were bad. But also, the instant an interception is possible, the WR has to become a DB himself and make an effort break it up. They quoted James Lofton on WGR yesterday, that he always said that was part of his job as a WR, to bail out the QB when he makes the bad throws.  

 

Josh making a bad throw and Zay putting in zero effort to save the INT are not mutually exclusive. Even an offensive PI there is better than an INT. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I was more surprised Zay had this many detractors. He was getting killed yesterday on the postgame.

 

In my opinion, those interceptions are all on Allen. Only Bills fans want to deflect the blame, but if this misguided blame is what it takes to get rid of the bum. Go on, please blame Zay for two of Allen's horrendous throws. Zay was not the issue on those interceptions.

 

Josh’s concussion was also Zays fault.  Same last name as Jonathan- it’s obvious 

1 hour ago, phypon said:

 

I guess I should have said, "Who is Zay Jones?".  Apparently, you don't know who he is.  I'll fill you in, he's the guy on the team that runs bad routes and does not have very good hands.  Sometimes coaching staffs stick with a guy too long.  I'll be surprised if he makes it through the full season.

 

All for an upgrade. I think people are way Misguided on where it’s going to be found. 

[Pete]

 

 

 

Some players who went after Zay Jones in the 2017 draft: Alvin Kamara, Dalvin Cook, Ju-Ju Smith-Schuster, Joe Mixon, Cooper Kupp, Kareem Hunt, Chris Godwin.

 

476

11:42 AM - Oct 1, 2018

[T master]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Virgil said:

Can someone please tell me what Zay did, or didn’t do, yesterday to call for the hate?  I see people saying cut him immediately.  
 

I can’t remember a play with him where I thought he was the reason we sucked.  The guy isn’t even out there that much.  
 

Overall, he hasn’t lived up to his draft status and physical traits, but I don’t see how yesterday was the deal breaker.  
 

What am I missing?

 

Watch the tape of the last couple of games the dude blows catches at times when the team needs him he's not a clutch player ! When it's crunch time he just doesn't produce . And the INT near the goal line he should have if nothing else fowled the dude so he didn't get the INT but didn't .

 

IIMHO if Duke would have been in there on that play near the end zone that almost hit him in the hands Duke would have positioned himself better & boxed out the defender to make the catch or would have fought off the INT . 

 

Sure the guy puts in the work, he's a great team guy but he's like the Tyrod Taylor of WR's he's a decent #3 WR but when you need him to step up when the game is on the line the dude just never seems to deliver . 

 

Look att he Dawson Knox over the defender catch, the John Brown 1 hander, you just don't see that from him & i don't think given the fact that he is in his 3rd yr we ever will !! Turn him into a ST player with a #4 WR status & bring Duke up he's a lot more hungry & has shown more & if given the chance to play & develop in the scheme i think can easily out play Zay !! Just saying ...

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I mean the 5 yard overthrows and underthrows. What amount of thosw targets do you think were realistically catchable?

 

I don't like Zay as a player. I didn't like the pick, I'm biased against him. But he has gotten a lot of garbage throws in his direction the last 3 weeks.

 

 

Yah but those ones that hit him in the hands & he don't get are the ball breakers !! 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

10 targets, 2 catches. What is it you see good about him?

there isn't.     

 

seriously though .....  posting #'s w/o context is how things get AFU around here. Posting incorrect #'a doesn't help either.  

 

In Sundays game it was not 10 targets, 2 catches for Zay.  It was actually 8 targets. 

 

Of those 8 "targets" How many were throwaways? 

Has to be like 4? 

Leaving 4 in which 2 were catches and 2 were dropped. 
 

 

 

From worst to first    6th worst in Dropped Passes -  Buffalo Bills 5

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving

 

 

IF Zay drops 4 and 5 passes a game HOW is it that the team only has   5 dropped passes ????   

Edited October 1, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Dopey]

26 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

 

Some players who went after Zay Jones in the 2017 draft: Alvin Kamara, Dalvin Cook, Ju-Ju Smith-Schuster, Joe Mixon, Cooper Kupp, Kareem Hunt, Chris Godwin.

 

476

11:42 AM - Oct 1, 2018

Definitely a list of better picks. To the OP's question, why all the Zay hate? Shouldn't the hate be directed toward WHO drafted him? I mean, look at that list. Terrible pick compared to those guys, but Zay didn't draft himself. If Zay had a choice, I'm sure he would love to have been getting passes from Mahomes, Brees, Ben, Dalton, Winston or even Goff instead of Tyrod, Peterman and Josh. Gotta admit, that's a crappy list of QB's we had. Josh is young and developing, but he's not getting the job done with 6 picks, 3 tds and 5 fumbles(2 lost). That's a 2 turnover per game average and it could have been more. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Dopey

[cba fan]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:37 AM, FiftyPercent said:

He has no balls/awareness when it comes to fighting for the ball.  If he was more aware on the sideline INT he could have pulled the DB out of bounds before he got the second foot down, or at least tried to.  He looks like a 13 year old girl out there too many times.

 

Go watch some clips of Eric Moulds, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Zay actually contacted the Patriot and the ball as Zay was standing out of bounds. Before both feet of Patriot came down inbounds. Patriot player actually had no feet down yet when Zay contacted him. This by rule makes the Patriot player out of bounds and the call should have been an incompletion.

 

Zay failed by not jumping for the ball and just watching the guy jump up and catch it.

Zay failed by not throwing the guy out of bounds to make it clear he was out.

Refs failed by not seeing this was an out of bounds player.

Bills coaches failed by not knowing this.

Bills coaches failed by not pointing out to refs what they wanted challenged.

Replay officials failed by not overturning an obvious incompletion.

 

Former ref Gene Steratore came on air 10 min after and discussed how refs missed this call and replay missed it also.

 

there was enough fail in this play alone to make me wonder if a Dick Jauron game management spell has been cast on this org.

Edited October 1, 2019 by cba fan

[DCOrange]

6 hours ago, Romie said:

Nathan Peterman

Kalen Ballage might be worse.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by DCOrange

[Reed83HOF]

 

[TwistofFate]

13 hours ago, John in Jax said:

Recorded the game on DVR....just went back and watched the 4th down "drop" you reference above. Listen, I'm not saying Zay Jones is a great receiver, but to call that a drop is ridiculous. It was way too high, and he had a CB draped all over him.

 

What was really pathetic about that play was the design though. We had 2 WRs stacked on the left side, and both of them appeared to run in the same direction, so they were easily covered. It really gave Barkley no option as to where to go. And the back stayed in to block. Terrible looking play design.

It hit him in the hands....its a drop. 

 

Its not ridiculous to call a drop a drop.   He's an NFL professional reciever.  It's drop after drop after drop with him. 

 

Stop making excuses for his poor ass performance. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

It hit him in the hands....its a drop. 

 

Its not ridiculous to call a drop a drop.   He's an NFL professional reciever.  It's drop after drop after drop with him. 

 

Stop making excuses for his poor ass performance. 

 

It was a similar throw to when Duke came down with it and bulldozed the CB who was draped all over him into the end zone.

[starrymessenger]

He's a #3 or #4 WR it would appear. Doesn't separate well (though he has occasionally been open and missed by Allen), is pretty useless competing for balls in a crowd, doesn't react to break up picks or pursue the DB (low energy Zay) and - this is the killer - has very suspect hands. Sure some of Allen's throws give him little or no chance. On the other hand he dropped a low throw that hit him in the hands on Sunday. A NFL starting calibre WR should make that play.  If this sort of thing were an outlier you would just drive on. The problem is that it's pretty typical for Zay. I have not been on the Duke bandwagon, but I think it's about time for a change.

[wppete]

Is Zay still on this team?!?!?! Time to trade or release him. 

[Gordio]

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

[Irv]

Frankly, I think you are all overreacting.  The kid's gearing up to go down to Nashville and turn the season around.  Quit worrying. 

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

16 hours ago, Gordio said:

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

That could very well be an issue of trust.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

 

There's quite a few times where Zay has his man beat and Josh is nowhere catchable with the pass.  It's really bizarre because he doesn't have this issue with Brown, Beasley or Knox. 

 

Unfortunately for Zay, he can't control the fact Allen is wildly inaccurate when throwing to him in particular.. what he can control is making difficult catches and fighting to break up interceptions, of which he never seems to do.

 

It's just a very odd situation right now.  Zay gets open though.  That's on tape for all to see.

[MikeSpeed]

I have been somewhat defending Zay since the Panthers game in his first year. But I did witness Sunday him not helping his QB on the 2 INT. Granted better throws could have been made, but it looked very much like he didn't know how to switch to become a defender on those plays. It's frustrating that he is in year 3 and doesn't appear to have that little extra, for lack of a better term, "effort" in his game. He just seems like he's on the precipitous of being good, but just can't take that next step. Sadly I think he may never or he may just take too long for us to wait for him.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

There's quite a few times where Zay has his man beat and Josh is nowhere catchable with the pass.  It's really bizarre because he doesn't have this issue with Brown, Beasley or Knox. 

 

Unfortunately for Zay, he can't control the fact Allen is wildly inaccurate when throwing to him in particular.. what he can control is making difficult catches and fighting to break up interceptions, of which he never seems to do.

 

It's just a very odd situation right now.  Zay gets open though.  That's on tape for all to see.

 

Much more grounded than the hes the worst player to ever don and NFL jersey flaming pitchfork crew. 

 

Josh and Zay dont click- reason doesn’t matter. For that reason itself its good to start looking around for an upgrade. 

 

Look at that jets jets game last year with Barkley. That day ZJ was the best wr on the field. 

 

So yeah Beane go get something better at wr#3, 4 or even better than Cole or Smoke.... but it need to be actually better. Not just the next JAG in line. 

5 minutes ago, MikeSpeed said:

I have been somewhat defending Zay since the Panthers game in his first year. But I did witness Sunday him not helping his QB on the 2 INT. Granted better throws could have been made, but it looked very much like he didn't know how to switch to become a defender on those plays. It's frustrating that he is in year 3 and doesn't appear to have that little extra, for lack of a better term, "effort" in his game. He just seems like he's on the precipitous of being good, but just can't take that next step. Sadly I think he may never or he may just take too long for us to wait for him.

This .... thanks for a rational take

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Incomplete pass 

with the "fumble "

Not an INT 

 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

Sure they can. 

[toto8]

1st of all that was not an interception. He didn't fully controlled the ball, not even when he landed out of bounds just a little after.

 

The Zay hate is real. look at this below and make a decision after. The guy was open a lot and JA didn't look his way. Also on the interception everyone is mentioning Knox is running a route behind Zay and some think he was the target not Zay.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by toto8

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

He speed is average and his hands are bad.  He runs lazy routes and is rarely open.  Watch him live in the stadium and you see he really sucks away from the ball. He has no compete, he is not smart, and he does not work hard.   He can’t play special teams either.  

 

This is his third season and he still has no football sense.  On the 3rd interception he really needed to play DB and knock the ball down.  In a post game interview he said something like this “I knew I could not catch it, I thought it might be for someone behind me so I let it go”.  

 

We have Foster and Duke Williams, let’s try one of them.  

well i guess that is that then.

 he's and idiot.
all the compliment you paid him ring true. Sorry Zay Jones. you suck cuz you do not play with 110% and that is what success is made from when most everyone else is playing 100% +

no wonder Josh does not trust him.

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, toto8 said:

1st of all that was not an interception. He didn't fully controlled the ball, not even when he landed out of bounds just a little after.

 

The Zay hate is real. look at this below and make a decision after. The guy was open a lot and JA didn't look his way. Also on the interception everyone is mentioning Knox is running a route behind Zay and some think he was the target not Zay.

 

 

thanks for posting. quinn also has a long thread looking at Zay’s targets from all 4 games from just a couple hours ago. Unfortunately most have made up their minds about the guy and just dismiss this analysis and go on claiming he’s the worst player in the history of the Bills and other such nonsense.

[ctk232]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

There's quite a few times where Zay has his man beat and Josh is nowhere catchable with the pass.  It's really bizarre because he doesn't have this issue with Brown, Beasley or Knox. 

 

Unfortunately for Zay, he can't control the fact Allen is wildly inaccurate when throwing to him in particular.. what he can control is making difficult catches and fighting to break up interceptions, of which he never seems to do.

 

It's just a very odd situation right now.  Zay gets open though.  That's on tape for all to see.

^this is expanded on in the Athletic's All-22 article from today, too. Though I think Joe B nailed it in his summary - Zay is a "role player" not an "impact player."

 

Some interesting points to his credit are that he's the best run blocking receiver on the team by far, and he's apparently getting greater separation than Smoke on average (2.7 vs. 2.3). Allen has missed several underneath crossing routes/mesh concepts that could go for 15-20 yard gains, several with Zay running the route with clean separation and daylight ahead. While I agree I don't think Allen has done him any favors, he isn't going to be this massively impactful receiver for us tearing up stat charts. I've always been in the boat that if Zay is evaluated in the context of his draft pick, he won't live up to the hype - but the reason he's on the roster now is his utility in the run game, knowledge of the offense, and improved route running on an overall basis. This is all value added, but not enough for people who only see the targets he gets.

Edited October 2, 2019 by ctk232

[Rob's House]

On 9/30/2019 at 10:01 AM, Rad Likes The Bills said:

Dude stop it. Zay Jones isn’t in the same stratosphere as RWoods.  He just put up 1.2k yards last year. And they are truly night and day different players. Woods makes all tough contested catches over the middle. Runs all the routes. Catches the deep ball. Extremely good downfield blocker(look at all shady’s big runs from 15/16 who was leading the way) He was the perfect #2. 

 

 

 

Somewhat OT, but worth noting: Most of the fan base thought Woods was a JAG when he was here.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:33 AM, Virgil said:

Can someone please tell me what Zay did, or didn’t do, yesterday to call for the hate?  I see people saying cut him immediately.  
 

I can’t remember a play with him where I thought he was the reason we sucked.  The guy isn’t even out there that much.  
 

Overall, he hasn’t lived up to his draft status and physical traits, but I don’t see how yesterday was the deal breaker.  
 

What am I missing?

 

He's a jag and doesn't fight for the ball.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/30/2019 at 2:37 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t hate the guy.  He belongs on a nfl roster.  But when you trade up for a guy in the 2nd and pass on JuJu and Cooper Kupp, it looks terrible to see how unproductive Zay is.  He has no elite skills.  He is a dime a dozen NFL receiver who was drafted by us because his college coach was on the Bills. 

 

Pretty much, This.  People hate on Zay because they look at the guys drafted after him and say WTF man?

 

Remember when he was drafted.  McDermott was said to be making the picks off Whaley’s draft board, but he didn’t fully trust Whaley’s talent evaluation.  He had his new WR coach lobbying hard for his guy Zay (a coach who did not work out as an NFL coach and was gone after one season) and he bought it.  He also may have had input behind the scenes from Beane, his GM in waiting.  So we got Zay, who is a legit NFL WR as a #3 guy, but has not produced at the level you expect from a high 2nd round pick which is one of your top men.  But it’s not Zay’s fault the Bills over-drafted him and that they’ve had suckage at WR coach his first two seasons.

 

WR talent is the one place where I still feel Beane and his crew have suspect talent evaluation.  I feel it led to the team under-valuing Robert Woods and not making enough push to keep him, and to abominations such as trading for Kelvin Benjamin, signing a pack of aging never-quite-were’s, and plonking down $3.5M for Corey Coleman.  Beasley and Brown seem to be “all that”, but no question we suffered badly at WR last year and we don’t quite have enough this year.

 

But for God’s sake Daboll quit drawing up plays where Zay Jones goes deep.  Someone else said it, he is not agile, he is not fleet of foot, and he is not able to adjust and contest for the ball when he’s giving every ATP molecule he has in his body just to get upfield.

 

5 hours ago, Rob's House said:

Somewhat OT, but worth noting: Most of the fan base thought Woods was a JAG when he was here.

 

This.

 

And also to the point, the Bills talent e v a l and decision makers thought so too.  I am concerned about our ability to ID and develop WR talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Irv said:

Frankly, I think you are all overreacting.  The kid's gearing up to go down to Nashville and turn the season around.  Quit worrying. 

 

 

 

Dude, I’ve lost count of the times you’ve posted a mash-up with alligators or sticks of butter or what have you on Zay’s hands, but it’s become what I expect from you in a discussion of Zay or even a non-discussion of Zay where you bring it in.  It’s tired.  It no longer has the humor of novelty.  Let it go.

 

 

On 10/1/2019 at 5:47 AM, Chandler#81 said:

10 targets, 2 catches. What is it you see good about him?

 

To be fair, Chand, in the games where I’ve broken it down most of the “targets” attributed to him have been in no way balls any NFL WR could haul in - throw-away balls or tipped or what have you.  I’d be interested in this game if you look throw by throw, how many of those were actually catchable balls?