Kemp Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Didn't see game. Is it true that Oliver's been near invisible or is this a reporter looking to create a narrative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kemp said: Didn't see game. Is it true that Oliver's been near invisible or is this a reporter looking to create a narrative? His writeups are mostly positive from the Panthers game. I haven’t read anything that hasn’t been complimentary of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I'm getting the sense this team can compete. While I've known we weren't stacked at DE, the concern is more pronounced when you have a team on the precipise of actually doing something! Murphy got a sack and generates some pressure. He's PROBABLY not gonna stay healthy. Shaq does VERY little in terms of getting after the QB. Hughes is a very, very good pass rusher, but he's not elite. I watched a particular play last night and it dawned on me that the reason for the disparity in sacks/pressures WRT Hughes is that the other side of the pocket is far too frequently clean. I can see this being a major issue defensively, especially if the offense clicks and we starting getting into games that actually resemble modern NFL football. What's the solution? Is Oliver gonna be good enough as a rookie to make THAT much of an impact on the left side of the line? Star is Star. Do you blitz more? Frazier is allergic to that concept. I tend to think the issue went unnoticed last season because we were awful offensively and didn't really FORCE the opposing QB's to go into down field mode. In these modern games, you've got to be able to make a big play or two defensively and that rarely occurs without pressure. We flirted with Clark and Clowney. That didn't come to fruition. I think the likely outcome is that McDermott has a little sitdown with Frazier to explain that you're allowed to send 5 or 6 guys after the QB. If that doesn't work, the HC may have to take over the reigns defensively once again. I could also see them getting into another 2017 "we're better than we thought" situation and trying to make a midseason acquisition. We shall see. In the grand scheme of things, it's great that the Bills appear to be moving in the right direction. Still, this is a concern. Two words - Darryl Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForMacAdoo Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Two words - Darryl Johnson This. So, so impressed with this 7th round diamond in the rough the first two preseason games. We just may have struck gold twice in the 7th round this draft: DJ and Tommy Sweeney. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Managed to be the #2 defense last year with the same pash rush. While giving up more points than 17 other teams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: While giving up more points than 17 other teams What a team game. Let’s hope we can put the whole package together this year, so all parts help to make the whole better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Augie said: What a team game. Let’s hope we can put the whole package together this year, so all parts help to make the whole better. For sure. Allowing that many points was also a product of an having an abysmal OL and WR units while playing a rookie QB and the worst QB in world history I agree that another dominant pass rush will make this defense elite. Jerry needs a running mate. I believe Murphy is adequate and a difference maker D......when available. Therein lies the problem. I’m really excited about Darryl Johnson but feel expectations should be tempered, especially this season. Mike Love is the guy that I’m the most excited about playing this year. He looks like a player to me. I think he and johnson make it and Yarbrough is cut. Edited August 18, 2019 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Managed to be the #2 defense last year with the same pash rush. To be fair, the 2018 Bills defense was the #2 ranked defense using the metric of yards allowed. While the NFL ranks defenses this way, it’s not the most useful statistic on which to base an overall ranking of defense. The Bills were not nearly as effective in points allowed ( probably the most important job of a defense ) or at sacking QBs. The pass rush is fair to average, and could certainly use a boost. It would likely improve their ability to keep opponents out of the end zone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 6 hours ago, NoSaint said: If you believe we have the coach and qb, I’m not sure even a 1 is off the table for most high end guys. Few points: 1) that pick is hopefully late in the round 2) the guy we get at, say, 20 is likely not an immediate game breaker at DE. If we wait til next year to get a guy ready the year after... 3) we have the cap space to buy immediate impact 4) it’s going to cost. Mack is a better player but look at that package. Or amari Cooper. A young impact player that’s proven nfl worthy can be a good deal even with a one If this is what they’re thinking, then time is of the essence. Vegas has us at 6.5 wins so prospective shoppers are certainly thinking top 10 pick from Buffalo. If the Bills make a serious jump up the rankings, beginning with a highly conceivable 3-0 start to the season, that 1st Rounder won’t be so appealing. It would also likely mean we’ve truly turned the corner many of us think we have and it could be years before we have another early pick. I’m not sure about all this, as this is rarified air we’re breathing here. But if it is real, grab yer purse and go shopping TODAY! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigs Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Itll be different when Oliver gets his feet under him. He's eating double teams and allowing guys like Murph and Hughes to beat their guys and collapse the pocket. Over some time he will get better and apply pressure himself. He can shed some blocks but he needs to work on more moves. Plus, when you have the defensive backfield and linebackers we have all you really need are 4 rushers who will get enough time. I'd like to see what we do with quick draw Brady tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: It's gonna be a bit different if the good teams we face aren't playing prevent offense by the second half. yeah the whole #2 defense ranking is a garbage stat.. 6-10 is the stat that matters 12 hours ago, Jumpsuit Jim said: I think that in today’s offense the ball comes out so quickly that the traditional edge rusher is becoming a relic much like the hike stuffing middle linebacker. By the time an edge pushes upfield and curls into the QB, the ball is gone. Instead, today’s game requires a strong push up the middle to collapse the picket, forcing the QB to essentially roll out of the pocket and into a sack. yep, clean pickets are no gude Edited August 18, 2019 by ProcessTruster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: If this is what they’re thinking, then time is of the essence. Vegas has us at 6.5 wins so prospective shoppers are certainly thinking top 10 pick from Buffalo. If the Bills make a serious jump up the rankings, beginning with a highly conceivable 3-0 start to the season, that 1st Rounder won’t be so appealing. It would also likely mean we’ve truly turned the corner many of us think we have and it could be years before we have another early pick. I’m not sure about all this, as this is rarified air we’re breathing here. But if it is real, grab yer purse and go shopping TODAY! I’m not sure either but if we aren’t on the verge of this now, it makes me less confident that we have the right guys... if that makes sense. It shouldn’t be year 4 of the regime and 3 of the qb that playoff contender becomes a thing as then you only get a 1 year shot at the cheap qb super bowl run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) Over-reactions abound. Hughes and Murphy get pressures. Thus Johnson kid has potential. Oliver has potential from the inside. And we know they’ve used Milano and Edmunds on the rush, both of whom should improve with experience. As for making a big trade to get an edge guy, I think Beane has been clear he’ll use the draft as his primary way to build. Morse was really the big exception there because he wanted a veteran in front of his young QB. Edited August 18, 2019 by oldmanfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 11 hours ago, Logic said: This year, Hughes and Murphy will bring an adequate amount of pressure and the Bills defense will be very good. Murphy will have at least 10 sacks this year, in my opinion. The main emphasis of the next offseason, though, should be beefing up the pass rush, and I trust it will be. Luckily for us we can go into that refurbishing of the position with a still-producing and recently extended Jerry Hughes, at the very least. And a big bonus: Darryl Johnson seems like he can really play. He may be a true late round steal. I expect 2-3 new edge players to be added using premium resources in the offseason. I’ll take the under on Murphy at 10 sacks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Bills fans have been feeling the pressure of edging fir years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 10 hours ago, 947 said: Hughes is a top-10 Edge Rusher in the NFL. Sure he's toward the bottom of that list, but led the league in % of snaps he pressured the QB. If we get even league average from the opposite DE spot & from Oliver, Hughes' sack #s will improve. you have to assume Murphy will be healthy enough to give them 10-14 strong games this year. Get 10+ healthy games out of him and we should be good. when healthy, he is very good.. watched him with Redskins here in DC, he can be a force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) At this point in the late pre-season, I think it’s more valuable to spend time figuring out how they can make pressure with what they have, rather than dealing in hypotheticals in the future. Firstly, I think they’ll be able to force 1v1 matchups on downs with long distances to go. You saw evidence of this so far in preseason with a shuffling of the DL. Murphy/Oliver/Star/Hughes flipped on a long 3rd down to Murphy/Star/Oliver/Hughes. This simple adjustment forces the offense to decide which player is getting doubled: Oliver or Hughes. It’s small adjustments like this that I think McD will likely tinker with to try and generate a 4-man pressure. Another adjustment you’ve seen this preseason, and will likely continue to see all year, is 3 down lineman with LoRax in the dirt. Against the panthers, you saw him at the 3T position on a passing down. Save the discussion on next season’s additions at EDGE for the long and uneventful offseason we will undoubtedly have to struggle through. The discussion now should revolve around what can be done with the players/scheme on hand to generate pressure with a 4 man rush Edited August 18, 2019 by EmotionallyUnstable 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 New England was 30th in sacks last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: I’m not sure either but if we aren’t on the verge of this now, it makes me less confident that we have the right guys... if that makes sense. It shouldn’t be year 4 of the regime and 3 of the qb that playoff contender becomes a thing as then you only get a 1 year shot at the cheap qb super bowl run. I wonder when the Pat***** 1 year shot will end... Point being: If you build a culture and a family, you can throw out the 4 year, wash-rinse-repeat cycle with the bathwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: Wow, the amount of fish smell coming off some posters on here is surprising Didn’t realize the amount of female posters we had on here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I don’t see pressure being a problem. Not sure we will have a top sack unit but I don’t see any reason they won’t be awfully close a lot of the time. Hughes gets so much love on here as a great rusher but I think a lot of people miss what happens when he runs so far past the pocket and tries to loop around. It really hurt the line in years past. Oliver hopefully fixes that issue this year. I’m definitely excited to get to week 1 and get the preseason doubts settled and over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: I’ll take the under on Murphy at 10 sacks Betting wise, that's a great move on your part. Truly, though: Between the reports from both McDermott and Frazier -- neither of whom is given to heaping praise on players unless they deserve it -- that Murphy looks like a different player, the fact that opposing offensive lines will be devoting more blockers/attention to Oliver and Hughes, and the play I have seen from Murphy with my own two eyes thus far, I'm sticking with my prediction. His career high for sacks in a season is 9, by the way, so the 10 prediction isn't as out there as some might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said: I wonder when the Pat***** 1 year shot will end... Point being: If you build a culture and a family, you can throw out the 4 year, wash-rinse-repeat cycle with the bathwater. Point is if you have that QB you take advantage of the 4 year window and then transition to a different team building model after. Nows the phase where where you get some extra vet talent on contracts that’ll be on there way out as you pay Allen/Edmonds, if they are the guy. i don’t get why so many posters think that a team with a 40 year old HOF qb and a rookie contract qbs will model their finances of the other 52 positions the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 36 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: The Patriots are unique. They have arguably the greatest QB and greatest HC of all time.... thats a nice "culture" to have. Nonetheless you didnt even really address his point. The idea is to take advantage of a QBs rookie contract as long as you can before you have to extend them at which point most of your resources will be allocated to them(assuming they deserve the contract). It would be wise for the Bills to capitalize on Allens rookie contract and PAY for as much talent as they can as soon as they can. Bingo. you see it with the eagles/chiefs/rams/bears now. And in our own qb class the browns and jets (mixed opinions on some of the players but loading up for a run and seeing the browns talked about as being in the window) those teams will likely age into either the 9ers (missed at qb) or Seahawks (hit at qb) as examples of what the next era looks like. regardless you load up now and make that run and then age into the next phase accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: The Patriots are unique. They have arguably the greatest QB and greatest HC of all time.... thats a nice "culture" to have. Nonetheless you didnt even really address his point. The idea is to take advantage of a QBs rookie contract as long as you can before you have to extend them at which point most of your resources will be allocated to them(assuming they deserve the contract). It would be wise for the Bills to capitalize on Allens rookie contract and PAY for as much talent as they can as soon as they can. ...but as the market escalates BEYOND absurdity (Dak?...40 mil?....seriously?), why would he capitulate earlier than he has to?...then again, from what I've seen and feel about this kid (agree or disagree is fine, respected accordingly), he is not a "gimme gimme I need to be the highest paid type".....the WOEFUL Cousins got the extortion ball rolling....and we thought Fitz was extorting for 12 mil/yr awhile ago.......Pegula pays the Rockpile Beerman $10 mil.... Edited August 18, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 This board is hilarious with all the "he/they would never do that" statements. "Beane wouldn't trade valuable draft capital for a player who he has to give a big contract......he says he builds thru the draft!"............and yet he had the best offer on the table for Antonio Brown. "Josh Allen won't ask for market value at QB! He's too nice of a kid"...............Brady is about the only QB to take notably less to keep a team together.........plenty of nice kid QB's eventually want to get paid what they are worth. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 12 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Two words - Darryl Johnson Love what we've seen of this kid so far versus hamburger helpers. He's got the look of a legit outside speed rusher in process. I look forward to seeing him every Sunday in a couple of years after he's bulked up and developed an inside/counter move. Great late round pick and they will likely to be adding another in next year's draft. In the meantime I'm pretty confident that our ability to pressure QBs will be adequate/good enuf. Pass rush/pressures is not a weakness IMO, even if having a premier player with this skill set (think Frank Clark) would put an already very solid D right over the top to dominant status. The multiple questions/issues are on the other side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) I know how much you guys love PFF but they had Hughes right there with Darnold and Fletcher Cox for highest percentage of snaps (~11%) generating pressure last year. Hughes is criminally underrated. If Murphy, Lawson, Love, and Oliver can give us anything we're going to have a decent pass rush. Also, I get that McD doesn't like to blitz but Zo and Edmunds are terrific pass rushers. I have to believe we're going to see plays that get them involved in the backfield. Edited August 18, 2019 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: This board is hilarious with all the "he/they would never do that" statements. "Beane wouldn't trade valuable draft capital for a player who he has to give a big contract......he says he builds thru the draft!"............and yet he had the best offer on the table for Antonio Brown. "Josh Allen won't ask for market value at QB! He's too nice of a kid"...............Brady is about the only QB to take notably less to keep a team together.........plenty of nice kid QB's eventually want to get paid what they are worth. Yeah. That's why I wouldn't mind giving up a FIRST for Clowney. You've got to pay a premium for young, elite talent. If we had Clowney, do you think we'd be expecting a 3rd round pick in return? No. We'd be expecting 3 firsts and a starting WR. The deal for me is this. IF we have the right coach and IF we have the right QB, the time to win is now. If both of those statements are true, there's no reason to believe we're giving away a top 15 pick in this scenario. And if we ARE giving up a top 15 pick even after adding what could be the missing piece to an already "solid" defense, we've got bigger problems than no first round pick in 2020. The only issue is that next year's WR class appears to be stacked. Again, if things go according to plan, we'd theoretically have missed out on the top guys regardless as the pick sacrificed should not be in the top half of the draft. PLENTY of talent is available at WR in the second and third round every year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Two words - Darryl Johnson Darry Johnson is shaping up as one of the best stories of this summer...........but edge rusher is second only to the passer in team value. You don't pass on a stud QB because you have an obscure prospect put up a Peterman-esque preseason. Similar with edge rushers and you can actually play 4-5 of them in a game. Nothing should preclude the Bills from getting a stud pass rusher to line up opposite Hughes(who is old enough that you can't even guarantee that he will be able to maintain status quo as a pressure guy). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Yeah. That's why I wouldn't mind giving up a FIRST for Clowney. You've got to pay a premium for young, elite talent. If we had Clowney, do you think we'd be expecting a 3rd round pick in return? No. We'd be expecting 3 firsts and a starting WR. The deal for me is this. IF we have the right coach and IF we have the right QB, the time to win is now. If both of those statements are true, there's no reason to believe we're giving away a top 15 pick in this scenario. And if we ARE giving up a top 15 pick even after adding what could be the missing piece to an already "solid" defense, we've got bigger problems than no first round pick in 2020. The only issue is that next year's WR class appears to be stacked. Again, if things go according to plan, we'd theoretically have missed out on the top guys regardless as the pick sacrificed should not be in the top half of the draft. PLENTY of talent is available at WR in the second and third round every year. The 2020 WR class makes a first rounder off-table for Clowney to me. IMO WR is clearly the Bills most important need now and going forward..........job #1 of any organization is make the QB look good. And while the Bills should be able to buy a stud pass rusher in FA..........stud FA WR's will shun Buffalo like the plague even with a good QB, IMO............going to have to draft and develop like they did with Watkins and Woods. Orchard Park is just a place where you are likely to have multiple games every season where it's hard to put up numbers as a WR. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...but as the market escalates BEYOND absurdity (Dak?...40 mil?....seriously?), why would he capitulate earlier than he has to?...then again, from what I've seen and feel about this kid (agree or disagree is fine, respected accordingly), he is not a "gimme gimme I need to be the highest paid type".....the WOEFUL Cousins got the extortion ball rolling....and we thought Fitz was extorting for 12 mil/yr awhile ago.......Pegula pays the Rockpile Beerman $10 mil.... To be fair to fitz - he was like 19th highest paid and 18th in rating(?? Plus or minus a spot or two on each??) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 13 hours ago, SCBills said: As long as we’re able to get subs in, there’s no reason Star should be in over Jordan Phillips on pass situations. I think the goal for McD is situational football. Rotation and versatility are the D lines strengths, Bills have a nice tool box to make use of. as long as the LBs are disciplined in gap assignment and passing lanes awareness Bills should be a fairly complete defense. some of it's parts , if you will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The 2020 WR class makes a first rounder off-table for Clowney to me. IMO WR is clearly the Bills most important need now and going forward..........job #1 of any organization is make the QB look good. And while the Bills should be able to buy a stud pass rusher in FA..........stud FA WR's will shun Buffalo like the plague even with a good QB, IMO............going to have to draft and develop like they did with Watkins and Woods. Orchard Park is just a place where you are likely to have multiple games every season where it's hard to put up numbers as a WR. After the AB fiasco, Beane still recognizes the need at WR and brings in Brown as an intermediate until the 2020 draft. I like your assessment that helping your QB is top priority. It appears that Clowney will miss the balance of the preseason, so the Bills still have time to assess this current group, and measure how to move forward. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 22 hours ago, ScottLaw said: The Patriots are unique. They have arguably the greatest QB and greatest HC of all time.... thats a nice "culture" to have. Nonetheless you didnt even really address his point. The idea is to take advantage of a QBs rookie contract as long as you can before you have to extend them at which point most of your resources will be allocated to them(assuming they deserve the contract). It would be wise for the Bills to capitalize on Allens rookie contract and PAY for as much talent as they can as soon as they can. I did address his point.?♂️?♂️?♂️ My underlying point was that McBean are building something unique, here in Buffalo, and they are trying to break the cycle where teams are bound by that rookie QB window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Do you honestly think Oliver will be taking on double teams when the season starts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 On 8/18/2019 at 8:17 AM, EmotionallyUnstable said: I’ll take the under on Murphy at 10 sacks For perspective, only 22 players had double digit sacks last season. Also, the top sacking defense had 52 last year. The Bills were near the bottom at 36 (1 less sack per game from being elite). Here's a sample template of how the Bills could get to 52: Hughes - 10 Murphy - 8 Oliver - 8 Alexander - 6 Lawson - 6 rest of DL - 6 Milano - 2 Edmunds - 2 Poyer - 2 rest of DB's - 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Jerry is a fantastic player but he needs help. Having a player like Oliver who can bring some pressure up the middle should help this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 You’re forgetting Ed Oliver, he could very well get you 10 sacks if he catches on quickly. Guy could be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I would really like to see Johnson moved up the rung a bit to see how he does against better competiton.... Physically...the guy is a beast...7th rounder too wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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