Coach Tuesday Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Such different players. Bruce played the game like Von Miller, with speed and quicks, but at 290 lbs. He had a ballerina's bend. There will never be another like him. That said, Reggie was probably more fearsome. A quick LT (like Richmond Webb) could sometimes neutralize Bruce. White just lined up and dominated whomever was in front of him, with pure power. He was a beast. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Let's have them arm wrestle and put this debate to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, MJS said: Let's have them arm wrestle and put this debate to bed. Um... Reggie White is dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I'm wondering how different the poll results would be on a national scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: I'm wondering how different the poll results would be on a national scale? I would think it would be about flip flopped but the average football fan isn't paying attention to schemes and what side of the line a player is lining up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I would think it would be about flip flopped but the average football fan isn't paying attention to schemes and what side of the line a player is lining up on. I think Reggie would be ahead 60/40. Because the average football fan sees 198 sacks in 232 games vs just 2 more in an extra 47 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Reggie big picture Bruce as a fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 They were both great,but if Bruce had played in a 4-3 like Reggie did then Bruce's sack numbers would be even more than he ended up with..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: I think Reggie would be ahead 60/40. Because the average football fan sees 198 sacks in 232 games vs just 2 more in an extra 47 games. i'll be honest. i'm not sure which way I would go here. I think bruce would be more revered nationally had he got just one Lombardi... I guess might give a slight nod to white, but I don't think lining up over the RT the majority of the time helps his case in the least. Bruce most definitely faced more talented tackles on the left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Um... Reggie White is dead. I guess we have our answer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: i'll be honest. i'm not sure which way I would go here. I think bruce would be more revered nationally had he got just one Lombardi... I guess might give a slight nod to white, but I don't think lining up over the RT the majority of the time helps his case in the least. Bruce most definitely faced more talented tackles on the left side. It’s a tough call. Because there is nobody I’ve ever seen who was as quick as Bruce was off the line, and his ability to anticipate snap counts was ridiculous. For pure entertainment, nobody was better to watch than Bruce. But... From a pure technician and power standpoint, Reggie was a man amongst boys. Not as flashy, but just pure power and domination. Using the excuse that Reggie played against RT’s is a cop out because it didn’t matter who tried to block him. He’d make them his B word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Jay_Fixit said: It’s a tough call. Because there is nobody I’ve ever seen who was as quick as Bruce was off the line, and his ability to anticipate snap counts was ridiculous. For pure entertainment, nobody was better to watch than Bruce. But... From a pure technician and power standpoint, Reggie was a man amongst boys. Not as flashy, but just pure power and domination. Using the excuse that Reggie played against RT’s is a cop out because it didn’t matter who tried to block him. He’d make them his B word. like I said, I think I give reggie the edge, but is it debatable that he routinely faced lessor talent on the right side of the line? I think its a legitimate knock against somebody when you have two people so good that the debate is gonna involve picking at nits. definitely what sticks out most of my memories of white was his power. using that one armed club to just maul people over..... I was really too young to appreciate either guy to the fullest though. was only in my elementary years in those early and mid 90's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Such different players. Bruce played the game like Von Miller, with speed and quicks, but at 290 lbs. He had a ballerina's bend. There will never be another like him. That said, Reggie was probably more fearsome. A quick LT (like Richmond Webb) could sometimes neutralize Bruce. White just lined up and dominated whomever was in front of him, with pure power. He was a beast. Years ago there was a Webb ESPN highlight film and most of the action was against the Bills and Webb had help on almost every play! Not a big Webb fan, now Boselli is a different situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I voted Bruce because I’m from Buffalo. I’d imagine if you asked fans of the Eagles or Packers they would say white. Personally I’d prefer Bruce in my team than Reggie if we’re talking about what they bring in the field. But Reggie was by far a much better person off the field and it isn’t even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: like I said, I think I give reggie the edge, but is it debatable that he routinely faced lessor talent on the right side of the line? I think its a legitimate knock against somebody when you have two people so good that the debate is gonna involve picking at nits. definitely what sticks out most of my memories of white was his power. using that one armed club to just maul people over..... I was really too young to appreciate either guy to the fullest though. was only in my elementary years in those early and mid 90's I don’t think it’s a legitimate knock at all unless you’re trying to justify reasoning for someone being better. Nothing about it is quantifiable. It’s pure guesswork. Nothing is to say that Reggie would have been less dominant if he played in a different scheme against different players. What we do know is that he average .85 sacks per game and Bruce averaged .72. And I don’t think that pretty significant gap would be closed very much if roles were changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Bruce was better both on and off the field. I'll never forget or forgive Reggie White's racist diatribe in front of the Wisconsin legislature. Given the opportunity to apologize, Reggie doubled down on the hate. Bruce all the way, and it's not close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: I don’t think it’s a legitimate knock at all unless you’re trying to justify reasoning for someone being better. Nothing about it is quantifiable. It’s pure guesswork. Nothing is to say that Reggie would have been less dominant if he played in a different scheme against different players. What we do know is that he average .85 sacks per game and Bruce averaged .72. And I don’t think that pretty significant gap would be closed very much if roles were changed. deductive reasoning really... who's generally the more coveted athlete? the LT or RT? where does the better talent usually reside? as a general rule is the LT. I think its safe to assume that if white had played superior talent on the regular basis his numbers take a slight dip. playing more talented players week in and week out isn't gonna yield the same result...... enough dip to make a significant difference? I don't know. maybe not, but I still think is definitely worth taking into the picture. my personal list has always been jones, white, and smith. its sure is close between white and smith though. Edited June 6, 2019 by Stank_Nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: I don’t think it’s a legitimate knock at all unless you’re trying to justify reasoning for someone being better. Nothing about it is quantifiable. It’s pure guesswork. Nothing is to say that Reggie would have been less dominant if he played in a different scheme against different players. What we do know is that he average .85 sacks per game and Bruce averaged .72. And I don’t think that pretty significant gap would be closed very much if roles were changed. You mean if they switched rush sides and played in a 3-4 vs. a 4-3? I think it would make somewhat of a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: I don’t think it’s a legitimate knock at all unless you’re trying to justify reasoning for someone being better. Nothing about it is quantifiable. It’s pure guesswork. Nothing is to say that Reggie would have been less dominant if he played in a different scheme against different players. What we do know is that he average .85 sacks per game and Bruce averaged .72. And I don’t think that pretty significant gap would be closed very much if roles were changed. It is nothing more than guesswork: Two different players, playing in different positions, in different schemes, in entirely different circumstances. Could be that the stats are reversed if roles are reversed, or not. Two great players and a fun discussion. However, in the end, like all comparisons of great players, it just an opinion wrapped up in guesswork. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, mrags said: I voted Bruce because I’m from Buffalo. I’d imagine if you asked fans of the Eagles or Packers they would say white. Personally I’d prefer Bruce in my team than Reggie if we’re talking about what they bring in the field. But Reggie was by far a much better person off the field and it isn’t even close. LOL. Perhaps you forgot this. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/26/sports/pro-football-remarks-by-packers-white-draw-criticism-in-wisconsin.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 How many hall of fame offensive linemen did Reggie White line up against? I'm not sure, but my guess is zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: LOL. Perhaps you forgot this. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/26/sports/pro-football-remarks-by-packers-white-draw-criticism-in-wisconsin.html I have no problem with it. I don’t get offended by easily. It was his opinion. Brice was a coke head. There’s a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Just now, mrags said: I have no problem with it. I don’t get offended by easily. It was his opinion. Brice was a coke head. There’s a difference We're gonna disagree on this one. Bruce may have had his vices, but I'm not aware that he ever hurt another person by spewing racist hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Everyone seems caught up on the 3-4 and 4-3 comparison. We should probably recall that White played in a Buddy Ryan 46 for the first half of his NFL career. Which means he was often inside shade of the RT. Go watch some Eagles highlights of the guy rag dolling a RT and Guard before running over a RB enroute to a sack. He’d have been a beast in a 3-4 too. Its really too close to call. Either guy could dominate in any scheme you put them in. They were both that freaky. Heck, you could probably stick either at 3-tech and they’d still come away with 10+ sacks a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Reggie was more of a force than Bruce but they are pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 19 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: It is nothing more than guesswork: Two different players, playing in different positions, in different schemes, in entirely different circumstances. Could be that the stats are reversed if roles are reversed, or not. Two great players and a fun discussion. However, in the end, like all comparisons of great players, it just an opinion wrapped up in guesswork. True, but one player here was quite a bit more productive than the other. And that’s what we can go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) White had an additional 23.5 sacks in his two seasons in the USFL. He initially chose the USFL for the most obvious reason: they paid him more. Edited June 6, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I think this is one of those Brady or Montana discussions...you can argue for both. As a Bills fan I want to say Bruce, but I also would not have any issue with someone saying Reggie. In a close race like this, if I am being unbiased, I think White gets a small edge on helping bring a SB championship home where as Bruce's team came up short, and in 3 of those 4 SB losses the defense really got outclassed by the opposing offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Just now, Jay_Fixit said: True, but one player here was quite a bit more productive than the other. And that’s what we can go on. Production is often the benchmark we use; however, production comparisons of two athletes under completely different variables doesn't necessarily provide any meaningful insight as to which one was truly the better player. It just means one athlete was more productive within his/her set of variables than the other athlete was within his/her unique set of variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I'd have to say Reggie. Both were ridiculous pass rushers of course, but I feel Reggie was better against the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 In todays NFL you see teams valuing the RT position more than in years past. Surely more than in the era when Bruce & Reggie played. Offenses back then put their best tackle in the LT spot. If its the premiere position on the OLine today, it was even more so back then. When you factor in Bruce playing in a 3-4 & going against the best tackles week in & week out, it really is impressive seeing how dominant Bruce was. Its a close call & both are legendary players, but when you compare the 2, you absolutely need to compare their competition & schemes. Reggie had it better on both those fronts imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 What a time to be a fan. Basically would be like having Philip Rivers, Saquon Barkley, Davante Adams and Kahlil Mack on the same team now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: Yeah that’s interesting. He only played in a 3-4 his entire career Ok well like I admitted, basing this on one incident was flawed. But overall, it didn’t change my belief that Reggie was better 2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: Yeah that’s interesting. He only played in a 3-4 his entire career Ok well like I admitted, basing this on one incident was flawed. But overall, it didn’t change my belief that Reggie was better You just said one game changed your mind not you say it wasn't just one incident that changed your mind. Which one was it? Or are you going to keep going back and forth changing your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: For the longest time there has been a debate with my friends about who the greatest Defensive End was during the time we started watching football in the late 80’s and into the 90’s. Back then we thought we had the best DE in the NFL in Bruce Smith. Others considered Reggie White, from Philly, at the time to be the best. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, the question is...who was really better? Statistically there really isn’t much difference. Reggie played 15 seasons with 198 sacks. Bruce played 17 with 200 sacks. Of course, Bruce is the all-time leader. Both men should be considered toward as the best DE’s ever. I hate to say it, but I’m going to give the edge to Reggie. I think he was a much better leader and impacted the game more than Bruce did. For many years, I would argue in favor Bruce but one game made me change my mind. What sealed the deal for me was in a 1996 playoff game. Bruce had the flu and was questionable to play. This happens quite a bit in the NFL and players usually play through sickness. So I was really shocked when he missed the game. Pittsburgh scored 40 points so the team definitely could’ve used Bruce. I immediately thought of the Thanksgiving game against Dallas where Reggie played with a severely injured arm. He should have missed several weeks but he played through it. Thinking of that made me say “It’s official, Reggie is better.” As an adult, I can see the flawed logic there, but forgetting that incident, it doesn’t change my answer. Bruce was fantastic, but I think Reggie was the greatest of all-time. That REALLY confused me as they lost to the Jags in 1996. Either you meant 95, or the Pit game went into the 96 calander. Took me a sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 The question was who was better, not who do you like better. Being a Bills fan has nothing to do with it. Reggie. He played both end and tackle as well as anyone ever has. They were both the best player of their time as were LT and maybe even Derrick Thomas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, mrags said: I have no problem with it. I don’t get offended by easily. It was his opinion. Brice was a coke head. There’s a difference Seems like you're easily offended by drug use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted June 6, 2019 Author Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: For longevity, Bruce is better. He’s still alive. WINNING! A terribly offensive and disrespectful comment 2 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said: Deacon Jones He has nowhere near the numbers that Bruce or Reggie do 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Um... Reggie White is dead. I dont appreciate using someone’s death as humor Edited June 6, 2019 by Phil The Thrill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: For the longest time there has been a debate with my friends about who the greatest Defensive End was during the time we started watching football in the late 80’s and into the 90’s. Back then we thought we had the best DE in the NFL in Bruce Smith. Others considered Reggie White, from Philly, at the time to be the best. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, the question is...who was really better? Statistically there really isn’t much difference. Reggie played 15 seasons with 198 sacks. Bruce played 17 with 200 sacks. Of course, Bruce is the all-time leader. Both men should be considered toward as the best DE’s ever. I hate to say it, but I’m going to give the edge to Reggie. I think he was a much better leader and impacted the game more than Bruce did. For many years, I would argue in favor Bruce but one game made me change my mind. What sealed the deal for me was in a 1996 playoff game. Bruce had the flu and was questionable to play. This happens quite a bit in the NFL and players usually play through sickness. So I was really shocked when he missed the game. Pittsburgh scored 40 points so the team definitely could’ve used Bruce. I immediately thought of the Thanksgiving game against Dallas where Reggie played with a severely injured arm. He should have missed several weeks but he played through it. Thinking of that made me say “It’s official, Reggie is better.” As an adult, I can see the flawed logic there, but forgetting that incident, it doesn’t change my answer. Bruce was fantastic, but I think Reggie was the greatest of all-time. Bruce played 19 years not 17. Bruce had only 2 more sacks in 4 more seasons played. I agree that Reggie was the better of the two and the greatest of all time. They are definitely the top 2 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: A terribly offensive and disrespectful comment He has nowhere near the numbers that Bruce or Reggie do 173.5 sacks in 191 games, how is that nowhere near? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: I dont appreciate using someone’s death as humor Um, what? I wasn't using it as humor. The poster proposed an arm wrestling match... Also you should chill. The world isn't going to calibrate itself to your sensitivity level. Edited June 6, 2019 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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