I now understand why the Bills passed on DK Metcalf

[Uncle Joe]

Shirtless in Seattle. I need to unsee this:

[T master]

I couldn't believe he fell that far !! But i always thought N'Keel Harry was the better pick & were fixing to find out ...

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

None are the physical specimen that DK is. 

 

He is your 50/50 guy. The guy who can go up and get the ball..... he may flame out but I'd much rather they take a shot with him and at least make a better attempt at putting the recievers around Allen.

 

Josh Brown and Beasley are essentially slot recievers/borderline number 2's. 

 

Love what they did with the offensive line but if Foster comes back down to earth or any substantial injuries to the WR corps and they are right back where they were last year.... Having Allen pass to a boat load of trash.

 

 

Yeah I think too much stock is being placed in how Allen finished the season.

 

Tyrod finished both of the Rex seasons in a fashion that would have made you think the guy was going to throw for 4,000 yards and 35 TD's the next year.

 

The reality is you tend to get false positive results playing out the string late in the season.

 

 Whether the opponent is beat up,  or has one foot on the bus or if the lack of pressure to win brings out a more relaxed player than the guy you will see next September.........either way history shows not to expect that to carry over to start the following season.

 

The Bills in particular had almost all of their tough games early and a soft finish.    The one contentious late matchup was in New England.........and Josh looked like a bottomed out JP Losman that day.

 

The blueprint is out there........they NEEDED to go balls deep to prop him up this season.    Instead they went about half shaft.   Better than JTT but not enough for what's at stake, IMO.

 

Guessing we aren't go to get that January baby that Buddy Nix was always talking about but I'm sure we'll hear about the labor pains.  

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Right on. 

 

2) Rule #1.........do what it takes to maximize production from the QB position.   Especially for a YOUNG QB.

 

I like Cody Ford and he will be a swell guard or maybe even RT and Singletary was my favorite RB in a D grade class.........but job #1 of the organization is to prop up a young QB.

 

Sounds nice to say the running game is a young QB's best friend.........has a very retro, 90's feel to it..........but wasn't that the point of signing 6 OL and 2 RB's in UFA?

 

Compare what the Rams did for Goff to what the Bills are doing for Allen.   It's sink or swim for JA by comparison.

 

We can talk all we want about the value of picks..........it felt great to get Ed Oliver because it filled a need with a talented player........ but here's the reality.........McD has made 4 first round selections and 3 have been defenders.

 

It's not going to change itself.

 

Until they become more QB-centric then long term success is going to remain out of reach.

 

 

Yeh but by your example the Rams got their wideout support for Goff via FA for the most part in Cooks/Watkins/Woods, Kupp was the only guy they drafted and they only spent a third or fourth on him...can't remember which.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills make similar moves. And you have to remember how much Goff leaned on Gurley in both the run and pass game. Without that talent at RB their offense looks way different...it gave the Rams a leg up in deciding how to go about putting pieces around Goff. 

[Magox]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Who on the team possesses DK's skill set? What WR? 

Skill set is not the right description, he isn't known for his skills, he's known for his measurables and athleticism.  He's an ok route runner with ok hands.

[Kelly the Dog]

23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Right on. 

 

2) Rule #1.........do what it takes to maximize production from the QB position.   Especially for a YOUNG QB.

 

I like Cody Ford and he will be a swell guard or maybe even RT and Singletary was my favorite RB in a D grade class.........but job #1 of the organization is to prop up a young QB.

 

Sounds nice to say the running game is a young QB's best friend.........has a very retro, 90's feel to it..........but wasn't that the point of signing 6 OL and 2 RB's in UFA?

 

Compare what the Rams did for Goff to what the Bills are doing for Allen.   It's sink or swim for JA by comparison.

 

We can talk all we want about the value of picks..........it felt great to get Ed Oliver because it filled a need with a talented player........ but here's the reality.........McD has made 4 first round selections and 3 have been defenders.

 

It's not going to change itself.

 

Until they become more QB-centric then long term success is going to remain out of reach.

 

I agree with that, virtually all of it. I would have liked a big WR who can get deep and you and I discussed it before the draft. I like what we did, for the most part, with the WR in the off season but we need a stud. I don't think DK or many of these guys will be a stud. I wanted Harry in the second because I saw every game he played and think he is going to be very good, but it's all an unknown.

 

The combination of two deep threats in Brown and Foster, a dependable slot who can get open in Beasley, a solid short pass catcher out of the backfield in Yeldon, and HOPEFULLY a big guy who can win jump balls and be a red zone threat if Duke or Sills are half good, is literally 10x better than what we had. Even McKenzie with his shiftiness and the jet sweep threat can open up the passing game.

 

Plus HOPEFULLY, Kroft and Knox can be better than Croom and Thomas and Clay, who proved the little known mathematical anomaly of 1+1+1=0.

 

Granted, that is a lot of hope.

 

That said, ONE of the 37 things you can do to help a young raw QB like Josh, which may be in the top 5 of those 37 is "Field Position." Getting him turnovers and shorter fields and more cracks at it with an aggressive defense. That bend but not break defense often got us terrible field position, combined with our crappy ST. So Oliver, if good, could help Josh as much as any offensive player.

 

We surely could use a stud WR though. Bad.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Yeh but by your example the Rams got their wideout support for Goff via FA for the most part in Cooks/Watkins/Woods, Kupp was the only guy they drafted and they only spent a third or fourth on him...can't remember which.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills make similar moves. And you have to remember how much Goff leaned on Gurley in both the run and pass game. Without that talent at RB their offense looks way different...it gave the Rams a leg up in deciding how to go about putting pieces around Goff. 

 

No it was mostly via draft resources actually.

 

The Rams signed Woods in UFA........a perfect fit for Goff's intermediate wheelhouse.

 

They drafted Kupp in the 3rd and Josh Reynolds in the 4th.    I know Bills fans don't know who Josh Reynolds is but he would be no worse than WR2 on the 2019 Bills.

 

They traded their 2018 second rounder for Sammy Watkins.  

 

The following offseason.....after they couldn't come to terms with Watkins........they traded their 2018 first rounder to New England for Brandin Cooks.

 

That's about as "all in" as possible.

 

They could have said "wait til next year" but they appreciated the value of elevating Goff in a timely fashion before any long term damage was done.

 

He's still vulnerable.......as evidenced in the SB.........but he GOT them to the SB.......and it's simply been a masterful job of developing a QB prospect.

 

I would still trade the Bills #1 for a Julio Jones but that's about the only long shot out there that's worth the risk.  

 

Next years class of WR is going to be great but Josh will have to "survive" this one to get to a rookie WR1 for his year 3.     This all presumes that Foster comes back to earth somewhat and that Brown and Beasley only provide their average seasons rather than peak seasons.........but it's cutting it far too close for my taste.   Josh Allen is the most important player to join the organization since Jim Kelly.........gotta' support him. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No it was mostly via draft resources actually.

 

The Rams signed Woods in UFA........a perfect fit for Goff's intermediate wheelhouse.

 

They drafted Kupp in the 3rd and Josh Reynolds in the 4th.    I know Bills fans don't know who Josh Reynolds is but he would be no worse than WR2 on the 2019 Bills.

 

They traded their 2018 second rounder for Sammy Watkins.  

 

The following offseason.....after they couldn't come to terms with Watkins........they traded their 2018 first rounder to New England for Brandin Cooks.

 

That's about as "all in" as possible.

 

They could have said "wait til next year" but they appreciated the value of elevating Goff in a timely fashion before any long term damage was done.

 

He's still vulnerable.......as evidenced in the SB.........but he GOT them to the SB.......and it's simply been a masterful job of developing a QB prospect.

 

I would still trade the Bills #1 for a Julio Jones but that's about the only long shot out there that's worth the risk.  

 

Next years class of WR is going to be great but Josh will have to "survive" this one to get to a rookie WR1 for his year 3.     This all presumes that Foster comes back to earth somewhat and that Brown and Beasley only provide their average seasons rather than peak seasons.........but it's cutting it far too close for my taste.   Josh Allen is the most important player to join the organization since Jim Kelly.........gotta' support him. 

 

I meant they mostly traded for their wideouts instead of drafting them. Which, imo, is a reasonable route to go at that particular position which is proven to be a very steep learning curve from college-->pros when trying to develop a young QB quickly.

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I think too much stock is being placed in how Allen finished the season.

 

Tyrod finished both of the Rex seasons in a fashion that would have made you think the guy was going to throw for 4,000 yards and 35 TD's the next year.

 

The reality is you tend to get false positive results playing out the string late in the season.

 

 Whether the opponent is beat up,  or has one foot on the bus or if the lack of pressure to win brings out a more relaxed player than the guy you will see next September.........either way history shows not to expect that to carry over to start the following season.

 

The Bills in particular had almost all of their tough games early and a soft finish.    The one contentious late matchup was in New England.........and Josh looked like a bottomed out JP Losman that day.

 

The blueprint is out there........they NEEDED to go balls deep to prop him up this season.    Instead they went about half shaft.   Better than JTT but not enough for what's at stake, IMO.

 

Guessing we aren't go to get that January baby that Buddy Nix was always talking about but I'm sure we'll hear about the labor pains.  

I love it when Badol quotes ScottLaw.  It’s always so positive.  Said no one. Ever.

[BillsfanAZ]

I have seen it mentioned here many times about DK catching bombs. That is a fun play but how many bombs are caught each game? Not many and the Bills already have two guys who can get down the field for bombs. Guys that will get open and move the chains is what keeps the offense on the field. A lot can happen in a year but I will be interested to see the talent level of WR's in next years draft compared to this years. 

[The Senator]

 

Here are Metcalf’s actual stats...

 

2016: GP-2, REC YDS- 2, RUSHING-0, TDS-0

2017: GP- 12, REC YDS-646, RUSHING-0, TDS-7

2018: GP-7, REC YDS-569, RUSHING-0, TDS-5

 

Runs real fast in a straight line, but less than 2 full seasons of college ball, unimpressive production, and apparently fragile and injury prone.

 

I’m glad Beane passed, twice, as did everyone else until Seattle finally took him at #64.

.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Just now, NJKBillsfan said:

This kid seems like has some serious talent so it's surprising he fell so far. 

 

Any word on why we didn't trade up and grab him? I would have been much happier with our draft had we traded up for Metcalf instead of Singletary/Knox in the 3rd.

Probably because he's a workout warrior not a football player. He's a one trick pony right now and with his tight hips it's like trying to turn a semi in a cul de sac.

[CaptnCoke11]

Cause he’s not all that good 

[The Red King]

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/215441-okay-i-now-understand-why-the-bills-passed-on-dk/

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, NJKBillsfan said:

This kid seems like has some serious talent so it's surprising he fell so far. 

 

Any word on why we didn't trade up and grab him? I would have been much happier with our draft had we traded up for Metcalf instead of Singletary/Knox in the 3rd.

 

DK was gone before the 3rd round, so not sure why people keep mixing him in like we took Singletary over DK.  

 

The bottom line was this...Beane said there were some WR's he really liked and was hard not taking them and stayed true to his board.  I mean DK could have been #2 on his board, didnt matter because he said Cody was top overall BPA when the 2nd started.  So he took Cody.  DK went BEFORE Singletary, so its a mute point now.  

 

And they could have traded up, but they clearly had multiple targets and let the draft start falling for them.  And Beane again said Devin was the top guy on their board when he picked and didnt want to reach for a WR they had graded lower.  Same with Knox.  

 

So this isnt a mystery, Beane answered all these questions and it was clear they liked DK because he said there were some big WR's there and different type of make up than our guys here who he felt could really help our team.  But...Cody was their top ranked player above all the WRs at that stage, and they stayed true to their board and took the BPA based on their evaluations instead of reaching for another need.  

[Laughing Coffin]

Measurables =/= talent

[aristocrat]

Because he sucks

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Josh "Real Deal" Allen said:

Probably because he's a workout warrior not a football player. He's a one trick pony right now and with his tight hips it's like trying to turn a semi in a cul de sac.

 

5 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Cause he’s not all that good 

 

This isnt accurate...Beane literally said when he picked Ford there were big WRs he really liked and it was pretty clear he was alluding to DK.  But he had Ford graded higher and was top guy on his board and went BPA like he said he would according to his board.  DK was gone before the Devin pick.  So we do not know who was higher, Devin or DK...but we do know Devin was the BPA on Beanes board when they drafted him as he also said this in his pressers.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[KD in CA]

I can't believe we didn't grab him at #9.

 

We need a few more threads here to discuss the lack of WRs in the draft.

[Gugny]

8 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

This kid seems like has some serious talent so it's surprising he fell so far. 

 

Any word on why we didn't trade up and grab him? I would have been much happier with our draft had we traded up for Metcalf instead of Singletary/Knox in the 3rd.

 

You're lying.  You're a troll.  A troll who's bad at trolling.  It's not even funny.  This is terrible. 

[T master]

9 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

This kid seems like has some serious talent so it's surprising he fell so far. 

 

Any word on why we didn't trade up and grab him? I would have been much happier with our draft had we traded up for Metcalf instead of Singletary/Knox in the 3rd.

 

Here's a better question why did he fall to where he did apparently all other 31 teams didn't have him very high or he had some serious improvements that needed to be done to his game so trade up AH i'm not thing=king that would be a really smart thing given the reaction of all the other teams to let him slide !! 

 

Just saying ...

[macaroni]

Because the magic Beane realized DK Metcalf's draft grade status was media generated hype generated purely from a selfie picture of a shirtless DK and a few general combine events … it had nothing to do with his skills on the football field.  

[shane nelson]

"You listen to the fans, you quickly become one". 

 

[BillsfaninChicago]

He kind of reminds me of that UDFA running back that we had come into camp a couple of years ago. He posted some pictures on Instagram and he looked like a stallion. When he got on the field though he ran like a donkey.

[John from Riverside]

Lets face it.....McBeane were jealous of DK's abs

 

[glazeduck]

I love that the same guys who are stoked about signing David Sills as a UDFA also feel completely confident in bashing the #64 overall pick in the draft.

 

Gonna be a loooot of silly takes in this discussion when we look back a few years from now...

[Coach Tuesday]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

so its a mute point now

 

MUTE POINT ALERT!!  Hope this post doesn't hurt your self of steam!

[YoloinOhio]

They had other players graded higher on their board 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 minutes ago, Josh "Real Deal" Allen said:

Probably because he's a workout warrior not a football player. He's a one trick pony right now and with his tight hips it's like trying to turn a semi in a cul de sac.

 

 

...as DelRio said, his physique and combine work out overshadowed his true ability as a top flight WR....based on his fall to #64, Jack was dead on IMO....kid has an opportunity now  to prove everyone wrong.....

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Because front offices realize that being built and running a great 40 does not necessarily determine how athletic you are and how good your skills as a receiver are.  

 

Just like when people thought because James Hardy was tall and had a good  vertical he was a lock to be good.  

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

 

 

 

He went in the late part of round 2. We took Ford very early in round 2. We could've easily traded back up for Metcalf if we wanted. 

 

 

 

Easily?  You realize you have to give up assets to do that right?  You realize Beane had other targets in multiple rounds and may have valued multiple players as more valuable than one trade up for one player right?  

 

So sorry you are wrong here as its not "easy" and need to weigh the one player versus the value of the picks.  Lets say at the point DK got drafted he was #1 on Beanes board.  Well now he has to weigh the value of DK on his board versus the value of the players they plan to target with those upcoming picks too.  And what if DK was #3 on his board behind Devin and Knox?  Why would he trade up and to get a guy not graded as high by him?  

 

It was clear they liked DK...but not more than Cody.  And clearly not more than multiple draft picks, or they would have traded up, its that simple.  I wanted DK as much as anyone, but man this isnt complicated.  He literally said he did not want to reach.  And if you listen to his presser it sounds like he had a late 2nd round grade on him.  Still doesnt mean late in the 2nd round he was BPA on their board as he may have still had Devin higher, who he said WAS the BPA on his board when they took him a handful of picks later.  

 

I wanted a WR as much as anyone, but damn we had a great draft, you cant fill every hole every draft.  Beane did what he was supposed to do, stayed true to his board, and I trust his opinion a heck of a lot more than my own or anyones here.  Plus we got a WR projected to go 3rd to 5th round in Sills for free essentially as an UDFA, so still a lot to be excited about with two wildcards in Duke and Sills in the WR competition mix.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

MUTE POINT ALERT!!  Hope this post doesn't hurt your self of steam!

For all intensive purposes, that derailed this thread.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

Beane didn't have a problem trading up plenty of other times in the draft so why couldn't he do it again?

 

My point is that I would've preferred to trade up for Metcalf instead of taking Singletary and Knox in the third round. 

 

 

 

Beane disagrees.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

This isnt accurate...Beane literally said when he picked Ford there were big WRs he really liked and it was pretty clear he was alluding to DK.  But he had Ford graded higher and was top guy on his board and went BPA like he said he would according to his board.  DK was gone before the Devin pick.  So we do not know who was higher, Devin or DK...but we do know Devin was the BPA on Beanes board when they drafted him as he also said this in his pressers.

In your Opinion

[PetermansRedemption]

11 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

People saying that he's not that good is comical. LOL

 

If we drafted him Bills fans would be ecstatic about the the pick. 

Absolutely. He averaged 58 yards and .70 TD’s per game on a team that also saw their WR drafted in the first two rounds, TE drafted in the 3rd, and another receiver that will be drafted. It isn’t like he caught one pass for 10 yards per game and only dominated the combine. I was pounding the table for him in the late 2nd round hard. Would far and away rather have D.K. than Singletary and Knox but I hope history proves me wrong. Even if all he did was run streaks five times a game in his rookie year I would have been ecstatic. He can outrun and outmuscle whatever DB they put to cover him. He’s going to be open on one of those streak routes or make a play. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Bills2ref

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

People saying that he's not that good is comical. LOL

 

If we drafted him Bills fans would be ecstatic about the the pick. 

 

This I agree with.

4 minutes ago, Josh "Real Deal" Allen said:

In your Opinion

 

Sorry but thats wrong.  Out of Beanes Mouth...

 

Beane said at the back end of round 1, Ford was the #1 player on his whole board and tried to trade up for him. 

Beane said there were WRs he really liked there, and more than 1...but Ford was BPA.  

Beane said that when he picked Devin, he was the #1 BPA on his board too.

[Just Joshin']

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They had other players graded higher on their board 

The simple explanations are the best.

[rayray808]

I would have been happy with him at 9, so to see him go last in the 2nd round makes me extremely happy that we had the same read as 31 other teams

[The Senator]

23 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

People saying that he's not that good is comical. LOL

 

If we drafted him Bills fans would be ecstatic about the the pick. 

 

Um, he’s not that good, and I’d have been anything but ecstatic.

 

Dude runs a straight line really really fast, can’t do much else. Less than 2 full seasons of college ball (actually, 21 games in 3 years), unimpressive numbers, fragile and injury prone.

 

No wonder every NFL GM passed on him at least twice, til Seattle at #64.

.

[Teddy KGB]

The legend of DK Metcalf’s combine has the OP dazed. 

 

Wgas