Seattle trades Frank Clark to Chiefs for 2019 1st and 2020 2nd

[starrymessenger]

Both Ford and Clark can rush the passer on the outside, but Clark is a tougher, way more physical player who is much, much better against the run.  The price was very steep agreed but the Chiefs obviously think they've landed a 25 year old elite pass rusher who is not at all situational and who adds a lot of value on every down. If they are right he's worth it.

[wppete]

I actually am happy we don’t give all that up for Clark. I really think We are signing Ziggy Ansah now. 

[Alphadawg7]

2018:  Ford 13 sacks.  Clark 13 sacks.  

 

Clark I have repeatedly said is better than Ford...but is he so much better that you will both pay him more money and give up a first and trade down in 3rd?  I don't think its that dramatic.  BUT....Clark has WAY more off field risk to go with it which further closes the gap on the players IMO.  

 

The only thing I can accept here as making sense is a scheme fit.  

 

Still if someone sat me down and said you can pick one of the below scenarios:

• Frank Clark - Minus a first, minus next years 2nd, a trade down in 3rd, and pay him more money.
• Dee Ford - Keep everything above, and just not have an extra 2nd in 2019 and pay him less money.

I take the Dee Ford side of that, ESPECIALLY given the risks with the off field stuff with Clark.  But like I said, football player to football player, Clark is better...just dont think he's that better and has too much risk.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Kings ransom. No thanks.

Get me Ansah when hes cleared. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, wppete said:

I actually am happy we don’t give all that up for Clark. I really think We are signing Ziggy Ansah now. 

 

 

I could see them renting Ziggy this year and hoping to be in on Clowney next year.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

LOL Chiefs.

 

That Defense will not be noticeably better with the new 13 sack player and without the former 13 sack player. 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

2018:  Ford 13 sacks.  Clark 13 sacks.  

 

Clark I have repeatedly said is better than Ford...but is he so much better that you will both pay him more money and give up a first and trade down in 3rd?  I don't think its that dramatic.  BUT....Clark has WAY more off field risk to go with it which further closes the gap on the players IMO.  

 

The only thing I can accept here as making sense is a scheme fit.  

 

Still if someone sat me down and said you can pick one of the below scenarios:

• Frank Clark - Minus a first, minus next years 2nd, a trade down in 3rd, and pay him more money.
• Dee Ford - Keep everything above, and just not have an extra 2nd in 2019 and pay him less money.

I take the Dee Ford side of that, ESPECIALLY given the risks with the off field stuff with Clark.  But like I said, football player to football player, Clark is better...just dont think he's that better and has too much risk.  

 

Actually the swap is a trade up for KC.

Working the JJ Draft Trade Chart it comes to about 900 points not counting discounting the assumed late round 2nd next year.

That equates to a 1st round pick #18 or so.  Lower pick number if you want to discount the 2020 2nd.

To me it seems reasonable for both teams.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Big Spenders ...

2019 and 2020

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/

ACTIVE PLAYERS (73)	BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	ROSTER BONUS	WORKOUT BONUS	DEAD CAP	CAP HIT	CAP %
Sammy Watkins	11950000	7000000	-	250000	-22210000	19200000	10.16
Eric Berry	12400000	4000000	-	100000	-14950000	16500000	8.73
Eric Fisher	10350000	2550000	500000	250000	-13667023	13650000	7.23
Travis Kelce	7500000	1968400	1000000	250000	-3936800	10718400	5.67
Anthony Hitchens	6500000	2800000	-	200000	-17700000	9500000	5.03

ACTIVE PLAYERS (73) BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS ROSTER BONUS WORKOUT BONUS DEAD CAP CAP HIT CAP % Sammy Watkins 13750000 7000000 - 250000 -7000000 21000000 11.16 Tyrann Mathieu 11150000 4933333 - 250000 -21016668 16333333 8.68 Eric Fisher 8750000 2550000 500000 250000 -2550000 12050000 6.4 Anthony Hitchens 7800000 2800000 500000 200000 -8400000 11300000 6 Travis Kelce 7250000 1968400 1000000 250000 -1968400 10468400 5.56 Laurent Duvernay-Tardif 6450000 2000000 500000 50000 -4000000 9000000 4.78

Edited April 23, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[T master]

These contracts are getting stupid ? soon there will be a bunch of really good players looking for work because teams can build through the draft & let the high priced guys walk & when it gets to bad i'll start watching curling !! ?

[MJS]

46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

With Allen on a rookie contract, we have a 4 year window to make moves exactly like this one. This year wasnt the right time when we are sitting on a top-10 pick. But next year, when we're picking in the late 20s, we could do something similar and pay that player.

 

The Chiefs are simply a year ahead of us.

I can accept that.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

They also lost Houston, who is excellent.

Houston was a shell of himself last year. He's in all likelihood past his prime. Injuries have caught up to him. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Actually the swap is a trade up for KC.

Working the JJ Draft Trade Chart it comes to about 900 points not counting discounting the assumed late round 2nd next year.

That equates to a 1st round pick #18 or so.  Lower pick number if you want to discount the 2020 2nd.

To me it seems reasonable for both teams.

 

Ah early reports said a trade down, but didnt check the picks myself.  Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I definitely think Clark is better and will make KC better.  I just not convinced the gap is as big as the compensation is, especially when weighed with Clarks off field risk.  

 

But I do honestly think the Chiefs are better with Clark than Ford.  I am skeptical the Chiefs are better off though with Clark instead of Ford and whoever they were going to take in the first which could easily have been a CB, something they very badly need for example.  

 

I think I would have kept Ford, paid him a little less, and kept my First round pick in this draft.  But hey, I am not a professional GM, so I am sure they know a lot more about this than me.  

 

All that being said, I hold Clark in very high regard and feel he is a premiere DE already.  So they certainly got a great player.  But I also think Ford is pretty darn good too.  

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Houston was a shell of himself last year. He's in all likelihood past his prime. Injuries have caught up to him. 

Still had 9 sacks.  I’m not sure the chiefs are any better gaining Clark and losing Ford and Houston.  With Ford, Chris Jones, and Houston last year- pass rush was not their problem.  But, after losing those guys they had to do something.

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

They're in it to win it this year, and who can blame them? Clark is a major upgrade at the DE position. Ford was overrated. Yeah, he had 13 sacks, but opponents had to pass all the time because they were always behind very early in the game because of the Chiefs' offense. Clark is the real thing.

 

Clark and Chris Jones is an enviable inside-out pass rushing combo.   They don't have much else on D but those two are A LOT if you are playing with leads.   And Clark can move around or stunt inside and throw guards entirely off balance.    His hand work is outstanding.   That allows him to be so efficient to the QB and get so many sacks as opposed to just pressures.   He could push 20 sacks if the Chiefs play anything like last season. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ah early reports said a trade down, but didnt check the picks myself.  Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I definitely think Clark is better and will make KC better.  I just not convinced the gap is as big as the compensation is, especially when weighed with Clarks off field risk.  

 

But I do honestly think the Chiefs are better with Clark than Ford.  I am skeptical the Chiefs are better off though with Clark instead of Ford and whoever they were going to take in the first which could easily have been a CB, something they very badly need for example.  

 

I think I would have kept Ford, paid him a little less, and kept my First round pick in this draft.  But hey, I am not a professional GM, so I am sure they know a lot more about this than me.  

 

All that being said, I hold Clark in very high regard and feel he is a premiere DE already.  So they certainly got a great player.  But I also think Ford is pretty darn good too.  

 

I get your point.  I probably should of added how the Bills would of equated to the 900 point difference.

Swapping 1st would of netted SEA 550 points.  That's 350 left and the Bills 2nd was worth more than that (500).

Beane was probably in the swap 1's and throw in the 3 or 4 range.  Not far off but SEA did better with KC.

 

I have to think like others around here............KC is going all in with what they think will make them win a SB.

You have to like the pre draft week for excitement!

I'm hoping Beane can make a reasonable Ansah deal and get another good DL in the draft.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

That trade makes sense for the Chiefs. They're only really giving up the 29th pick this year and a probable late 2nd next year. They can also reasonably feel like they're an impact pass rusher away from another Super Bowl run.

This move would NOT have made sense for the Bills. The 9th pick is too high to give up for a team that is where the Bills are in their building process, and the Bills should NOT reasonably feel like they're one player away from a Super Bowl run.

I don't think it makes much sense for KC because of Dee Ford. I just don't understand why u get rid of a 34 edge rusher for a DE that never played in that scheme professionally. 

 

Plus you're giving up a first rder. Kinda off to me. Both will demand similar contracts. Basically swapped out a proven elite pass rusher in ur system for an unproven Edge rusher in said system, while losing a 1st. ? ???

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Clark and Chris Jones is an enviable inside-out pass rushing combo.   They don't have much else on D but those two are A LOT if you are playing with leads.   And Clark can move around or stunt inside and throw guards entirely off balance.    His hand work is outstanding.   That allows him to be so efficient to the QB and get so many sacks as opposed to just pressures.   He could push 20 sacks if the Chiefs play anything like last season. 

I agree that Clark is a helluva player but so was Ford. And we've never seen Clark in this scheme as a Professional

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I get your point.  I probably should of added how the Bills would of equated to the 900 point difference.

Swapping 1st would of netted SEA 550 points.  That's 350 left and the Bills 2nd was worth more than that (500).

Beane was probably in the swap 1's and throw in the 3 or 4 range.  Not far off but SEA did better with KC.

 

I have to think like others around here............KC is going all in with what they think will make them win a SB.

You have to like the pre draft week for excitement!

I'm hoping Beane can make a reasonable Ansah deal and get another good DL in the draft.

 

Yeah I would be pretty hyped to sign Ansah as it takes pressure off to get a DE in this draft.  

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, WMDman said:

Why not just keep Ford?

Dude can't even line up where he's supposed to.  I guess they think Clark is that much better than Ford.  Clowney has to be salivating right now after Clark's contract.

[Nester]

KC signed him, $105mm 5 years

[HappyDays]

I don't get this move for the Chiefs at all. They badly need secondary help. Their 1st would have been a prime spot to take someone like Greedy Williams or Byron Murphy. I get that Clark is a better player than Ford, but I don't see how he moves the needle enough to make the trade worth it.

[Logic]

17 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I don't think it makes much sense for KC because of Dee Ford. I just don't understand why u get rid of a 34 edge rusher for a DE that never played in that scheme professionally. 

 

Because the Chiefs are switching to a 4-3 this offseason.

[eball]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Clark is a lot better than Ford. 

 

"A lot?"

 

Ford career stats:

67 games, 30.5 sacks, 102 solo tackles, 9 forced fumbles (13/42/7 last year)

 

Clark career stats:

62 games, 35 sacks, 92 solo tackles, 8 forced fumbles (13/33/3 last year)

 

Look, I get it, perhaps it's a better scheme fit with the new DC.  But it's still kinda strange.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by eball

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I'm on the fence. 

 

Bills would be much better served at this point in their rebuild with an instant impact veteran pass rusher on the defensive line rather than a rookie whom in all likelihood is going to struggle and take some time to develop. 

 

The 9th overall pick is hard to give up I get it. 

I don't entirely disagree, I just don't feel like we are quite at that point and I am hoping we are next year (at least picking in the 20s). 

 

The 9th is very hard to give up, but I want to go a little higher if we can and preserve our 2nd this year. 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I'm on the fence. 

 

Bills would be much better served at this point in their rebuild with an instant impact veteran pass rusher on the defensive line rather than a rookie whom in all likelihood is going to struggle and take some time to develop. 

 

The 9th overall pick is hard to give up I get it. 

I think you meant to say that no matter how you slice it, the Chiefs getting Frank Clark instead of the Bills is a BAD look for Beane and the Bills organization.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

I don't entirely disagree, I just don't feel like we are quite at that point and I am hoping we are next year (at least picking in the 20s). 

 

The 9th is very hard to give up, but I want to go a little higher if we can and preserve our 2nd this year. 

 

 

Maybe this shakes Clowney loose?

 

9 for 23?   I think that's better value than what the Seahawks got for Clark.

 

 

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Maybe this shakes Clowney loose?

 

9 for 23?   I think that's better value than what the Seahawks got for Clark.

Seems like it needs to happen. I liked him as a prospect, but

 

 

I'd still rather move next years #1 to move up and get Oliver. He is a great interior line pass rusher (a little light, but still he is explosive) and 5 years on a rookie contract will help us in some other areas in the short term. If you can keep this draft in place and somehow maneuver enough to grab him, N'Keal and Sternberger I would be happy. I know this will never happen, but still. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[Turk71]

25 minutes ago, Nester said:

KC signed him, $105mm 5 years

I have a strong feeling they are going to regret that.

[Lurker]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I don't get this move for the Chiefs at all. They badly need secondary help. Their 1st would have been a prime spot to take someone like Greedy Williams or Byron Murphy. I get that Clark is a better player than Ford, but I don't see how he moves the needle enough to make the trade worth it.

 

A great pass rush solves a lot of secondary problems...

[jkeerie]

I can't help but think that Offside penalty that cost them the AFC championship has stuck in the craw of the KC hierarchy.

 

 

[aristocrat]

Chiefs love them some domestic abusers

[cle23]

2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I think the chiefs look sorta silly here..... why not pay ford, the slightly lessor but almost as productive talent, and hold onto your 1st this year and 2nd next year?

 

They got a second next year for Ford so it's basically like giving them a one this year and swapping thirds. Also, Clark has a much better NFLhistory and Ford is kind of a one-year Wonder.

[dave mcbride]

27 minutes ago, eball said:

 

"A lot?"

 

Ford career stats:

67 games, 30.5 sacks, 102 solo tackles, 9 forced fumbles (13/42/7 last year)

 

Clark career stats:

62 games, 35 sacks, 92 solo tackles, 8 forced fumbles (13/33/3 last year)

 

Look, I get it, perhaps it's a better scheme fit with the new DC.  But it's still kinda strange.

 

 

I guess my rejoinder is the ol' "watch 'em play" one. First off, Ford is a terrible run defender. And while he can certainly get around the edge pretty well, his inside game is lacking. Clark, in contrast, consistently creates chaos out there given his fantastic inside/outside game combo and his combination of agility and strength. He's just a better player. Seattle's defense was good last season, and he was a big reason for it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Maybe this shakes Clowney loose?

 

9 for 23?   I think that's better value than what the Seahawks got for Clark.

 

 

 

 

 

.....now with another example of the $$$ market lines being drawn with the Clark signing, it seems to be clear what the Texans would have to come up with and it looks like their cap space is :2019-$40+ mil; 2020-$103+ mil....why would they be inclined to dump Clowney?........

[eball]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I guess my rejoinder is the ol' "watch 'em play" one. First off, Ford is a terrible run defender. And while he can certainly get around the edge pretty well, his inside game is lacking. Clark, in contrast, consistently creates chaos out there given his fantastic inside/outside game combo and his combination of agility and strength. He's just a better player. Seattle's defense was good last season, and he was a big reason for it.

 

I'll take your word for it, I didn't study their play.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, eball said:

 

I'll take your word for it, I didn't study their play.

I watched probably 4-5 Seattle games last season and was consistently blown away by his play. 

[Lurker]

35 minutes ago, eball said:

 

"A lot?"

 

Ford career stats:

67 games, 30.5 sacks, 102 solo tackles, 9 forced fumbles (13/42/7 last year)

 

Clark career stats:

62 games, 35 sacks, 92 solo tackles, 8 forced fumbles (13/33/3 last year)

 

Look, I get it, perhaps it's a better scheme fit with the new DC.  But it's still kinda strange.

 

 

 

Isn't Clark almost 3 years younger?    To have equivalent stats means he's been a lot more available than Ford over his career:

 

Clark:   June 14, 1993 (age 25 years)

 

Ford:    March 19, 1991 (age 28 years)

[whatdrought]

So a first round pick and De Ford for Frank Clark?... I dunno homie.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....now with another example of the $$$ market lines being drawn with the Clark signing, it seems to be clear what the Texans would have to come up with and it looks like their cap space is :2019-$40+ mil; 2020-$103+ mil....why would they be inclined to dump Clowney?........

 

 

They don't have to by any means.    Neither did Seattle have to part with Clark really.   

 

But maybe they want to try to extend DeShaun Watson long term after next season.........and in the process maybe save some significant money and distribute that cost as opposed to waiting.  

 

Let's face it............offense is the long term play in the NFL.......that's what you can keep together and build on......a top defense is hard to keep intact and consistent.

 

Getting a stud LT for a QB with a reconstructed knee sounds good..........and the report is that they think one is there at #9.

 

I'm not convinced there is a great LT at #9 but if they do then that's an important get for them.  

 

[nedboy7]

People way overvalue draft picks when it comes to trading a first rounder for a truly game changing elite talent.  After all that’s what you are hoping for w your first round draft pick.  How many first round picks become elite?  It’s a good trade. 

[Turk71]

Houston and Ford combined signed for about the same amount as Clark with less guaranteed money. Not everyone thinks Clark is a better player than Ford. One GM said that comparing Clark to Ford was like comparing Flacco to Mahomes. Here's another take:

   

Now, there are worse ways to spend cap space, but this deal didn’t happen in a vacuum. The reason Kansas City was in need of a pass rusher in the first place was its decisions to trade pending free agent Dee Ford to San Francisco for a second-round pick and let the aging-but-still-productive Justin Houston go to Indianapolis for a modest deal. In all, Ford and Houston signed for seven years, $110 million, including $51.8 million in guaranteed money, with their new teams. That’s two ultra-productive players for, essentially, the price of Clark.

Now, you might be thinking that the Chiefs defense was awful last year and the biggest culprit in all of their losses, and you’d be correct. But that had little to do with Houston and Ford, who combined for 125 QB pressures. No other teammates combined for more. Clark managed an impressive 64 on his own, which is 16 more than Houston tallied but 13 fewer than Ford’s total. Pro Football Focus graded Ford as the best pass rusher in 2018. Houston ranked fifth. Clark ranked outside the top-20.