Bills host OG Quinton Spain from Titans***Update...SIGNED***

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

The hate for Zay on this board is mind boggling. 

That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board.

[vincec]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We need to be careful not to put all resources here

I think most of these will be short term signings. They sign 6 or 7 mediocre guys with the hope that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become solid starters. Within 2 years the ones that don't will be gone and replace by draft picks and/or new candidates.

[Paul Costa]

2 minutes ago, vincec said:

I think most of these will be short term signings. They sign 6 or 7 mediocre guys with the hope that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become solid starters. Within 2 years the ones that don't will be gone and replace by draft picks and/or new candidates.

??????

[NoSaint]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We need to be careful not to put all resources here

 

We still have sooooo many resources to use. Don’t be scared John. We can actually build a real team. You don’t have to pretend to like jokers like you normally do ?

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Little surprised he didn't get more than a one year deal from someone.

I haven’t really seen any glaring reviews on him so it’s pretty understandable 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

15 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board.

 Maybe, but he was drafted in the second round. Shoot, I think if you actually look at the numbers, he actually had played as well as most first round WRs. Now, obviously juju was there and we did trade up, so I guess you are right there. It’s an absurd basis to judge Zay, but to each their own.

[John from Riverside]

15 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

We still have sooooo many resources to use. Don’t be scared John. We can actually build a real team. You don’t have to pretend to like jokers like you normally do ?

What I mean is we do have other needs

 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

I think most of these will be short term signings. They sign 6 or 7 mediocre guys with the hope that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become solid starters. Within 2 years the ones that don't will be gone and replace by draft picks and/or new candidates.

And in the meantime- solid depth. 

 

This is is the phase where we can have a legion of boom, Marshawn Lynch, multiple pass rushers and still make a dumb trade for Percy Harvin just for a super bowl kick return.

 

or look at those 9ers teams around kaepernick 

 

if these 6 guys give us 3 starters and 2 backups we actually have a strong line all season. Top 10 pass rusher and day two picks at WR and RB and we will be pretty stacked and have depth at key spots 

53 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What I mean is we do have other needs

 

What I mean is this in no way precludes addressing them. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by NoSaint

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

 

BADOL, my good man, you are spot on per usual. This Nsekhe character sounds like he has performed at an elite level when given the opportunity. But it also sounds like he needs to play on the left side. Dawkins was ineffective at RT but some say he could be a great LG. But now with McBeane signing this plethora of interior lineman, getting Dawkins and Nsekhe on the same starting 5 is starting to read like an LSAT Logic Game.

Good to see you up and about !
 if you feel better about Bills line post FA ? then i do as well.
Cheers !

Edited April 4, 2019 by 3rdand12

[TOboy]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What I mean is we do have other needs

 

 

We STILL have cap room and 10 picks. 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Little surprised he didn't get more than a one year deal from someone.

my comment to my work bud who let me this morning.

 

any more to that ?
though the fellow might have had some leverage ?

[aceman_16]

42 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

So in summary he is an above average to elite pass blocker and an average to below average run blocker, yeah?

Seems to be the theme for all the new linemen.

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

I think most people are overlooking the biggest difference from this year and last... new O-Line coach. We may actually have a decent chance now!

[Logic]

44 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board.

Your post is kind of a perfect example of the undue Zay hate.

You just mentioned Zay Jones in the same breath as Aaron Maybin and EJ Manuel, both of whom were draft busts. Zay Jones is not a bust. He has not yet become an upper echelon NFL WR, that much is clear. But to mention him in the same breath as Aaron Maybin?

Zay Jones has 968 yards and 9 TDs across his first two NFL seasons, catching passes from guys like Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, and rookie Josh Allen. He had more touchdown receptions last year than AJ Green, Alshon Jeffrey, TY Hilton, Odell Beckham Jr, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, etc.

Just for the sake of comparison, Bills all time great Eric Moulds had 573 yards and 2 TDs in his first two seasons, and he was catching passes from Jim Kelly in year 1.

Zay's no All Pro at this point. But he's far from a bust, and I think he'll be a #2 WR in the NFL for a long time.

 

[YoloinOhio]

55 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board.

He was a second round pick. They traded up but it was only like a couple spots up in the 2nd round. I never look at him and think about “draft capital”.

[JaCrispy]

27 minutes ago, Logic said:

Your post is kind of a perfect example of the undue Zay hate.

You just mentioned Zay Jones in the same breath as Aaron Maybin and EJ Manuel, both of whom were draft busts. Zay Jones is not a bust. He has not yet become an upper echelon NFL WR, that much is clear. But to mention him in the same breath as Aaron Maybin?

Zay Jones has 968 yards and 9 TDs across his first two NFL seasons, catching passes from guys like Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, and rookie Josh Allen. He had more touchdown receptions last year than AJ Green, Alshon Jeffrey, TY Hilton, Odell Beckham Jr, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, etc.

Just for the sake of comparison, Bills all time great Eric Moulds had 573 yards and 2 TDs in his first two seasons, and he was catching passes from Jim Kelly in year 1.

Zay's no All Pro at this point. But he's far from a bust, and I think he'll be a #2 WR in the NFL for a long time.

 

I don’t hate Zay by any stretch...I just don’t think he is a reliable player for the Bills at this point, which is somewhat of a disappointment, given the hype surrounding him coming out of college.  You list his stats as a positive, and I agree...however, I can’t help but wonder how much more production there could have been with a more sure handed receiver.

 

I think people see Robert Foster, along with the receivers added in FA, and potentially another in the draft, and it becomes difficult to see a role for Zay in a receiver room that is starting to fill up quickly.

Edited April 4, 2019 by JaCrispy

[njbuff]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I don’t hate Zay by any stretch...I just don’t think he is a reliable player for the Bills at this point, which is somewhat of a disappointment, given the hype surrounding him coming out of college.  You list his stats as a positive, and I agree...however, I can’t help but wonder how much more production there could have been with a more sure handed receiver.

 

I think people see Robert Foster, along with the receivers added in FA, and potentially another in the draft, and it becomes difficult to see a role for Zay in a receiver room that is starting to fill up quickly.

 

I don't know how the Bills feel about Jones, but I think it is on the table that he might not be a Bill on opening day, but for us................

 

we fans have the patience of rattlesnakes when it comes to player development.

 

A lot of young WR's take time to develop and Jones did show signs of improvement the second half of the season. 

 

Remember, Eric Moulds was MIA his first two years in the NFL.

[PIZ]

27 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He was a second round pick. They traded up but it was only like a couple spots up in the 2nd round. I never look at him and think about “draft capital”.

 

(Bills receive):  (Zay Jones)

» 2017 second-round pick (No. 37): Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina 

 

» 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 149) -- traded to Falcons

 

(Rams receive): 
» 2017 second-round pick (No. 44): Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama 

 

» 2017 third-round pick (No. 91): John Johnson, S, Boston College

---------------------------------------------------------

(Bills receive):  (Dion Dawkins)

» 2017 second-round pick (No. 63): Dion Dawkins, OG, Temple

 

(Falcons receive): 
» 2017 third-round pick (No. 75): Duke Riley, LB, LSU 

 

» 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 149): Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State 

 

» 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 156): Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming

 

 

[Dkollidas]

Really happy with this signing. They now have Teller, Feliciano Long, Spain, Sirles, and Boettger as their guards. Long can slide to center in a pinch as well which is valuable.

 

makes me think if they do draft offensive linemen, it’ll be tackles for sure (or guys who they view as tackles with positional flexibility). 

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

Really happy with this signing. They now have Teller, Feliciano Long, Spain, Sirles, and Boettger as their guards. Long can slide to center in a pinch as well which is valuable.

 

makes me think if they do draft offensive linemen, it’ll be tackles for sure (or guys who they view as tackles with positional flexibility). 

Agreed. I don't see any room for a rookie guard at this point.

Among the guys you mentioned, they break down into three pairs for me:

Young, developing guys: Boettger, Teller

Versatile interior swing backups: Feliciano, Sirles

Experienced starters, probable early advantage in starting competition: Spain, Long

If they add a draftee to the o-line, as you said, it seems likely that it will be a tackle. And frankly, I'm not sold on Nsekhe and Waddle as fixes at that position. I'd like them to spend a 2nd or 3rd on a tackle.

[Dr. Who]

Titus Howard, Alabama State

[junior]

2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

my comment to my work bud who let me this morning.

 

any more to that ?
though the fellow might have had some leverage ?

 

My guess is that he just wanted a prove-it type deal, wherein if he performs well, he can sign for a higher APY next offseason (vs. what was being offered this offseason).

[XABI64]

all these lowkey no name FA's are either going to be amazing and help us find success again or a massive failure. 

[BillsBlue]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Your post is kind of a perfect example of the undue Zay hate.

You just mentioned Zay Jones in the same breath as Aaron Maybin and EJ Manuel, both of whom were draft busts. Zay Jones is not a bust. He has not yet become an upper echelon NFL WR, that much is clear. But to mention him in the same breath as Aaron Maybin?

Zay Jones has 968 yards and 9 TDs across his first two NFL seasons, catching passes from guys like Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, and rookie Josh Allen. He had more touchdown receptions last year than AJ Green, Alshon Jeffrey, TY Hilton, Odell Beckham Jr, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, etc.

Just for the sake of comparison, Bills all time great Eric Moulds had 573 yards and 2 TDs in his first two seasons, and he was catching passes from Jim Kelly in year 1.

Zay's no All Pro at this point. But he's far from a bust, and I think he'll be a #2 WR in the NFL for a long time.

 

I totally agree zay was a beast this year imo I think he has low side #1 potential....3/4 of this board is sleepin on zay

Edited April 4, 2019 by BillsBlue

[mrags]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

 I can’t help but wonder how much more production there could have been with a more sure handed receiver.

That’s funny. I was thinking about how much more production he could have had if Brokerod wasn’t throwing him the ball his rookie season. 

 

He he had a pretty solid 2nd season considering he played with 4 QBs. One of them was the worst to ever suit up and another was a rookie who was learning. 

[oldmanfan]

You have to imagine Johnson's interview for O line coach:

 

Daboll:  What would you do as our O line coach

 

Johnson:  Replace everyone except maybe Dawkins, because they stink.

 

Daboll:  I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

Beane:  Ditto.  Consider it done.

Edited April 4, 2019 by oldmanfan

[MacGyver]

9 hours ago, Logic said:

Zay Jones is not a bust

 

Hmm, he drops more passes than he catches just about.  He's at the point he needs to start proving that he's not a bust IMO.

[MrEpsYtown]

10 hours ago, Logic said:

Your post is kind of a perfect example of the undue Zay hate.

You just mentioned Zay Jones in the same breath as Aaron Maybin and EJ Manuel, both of whom were draft busts. Zay Jones is not a bust. He has not yet become an upper echelon NFL WR, that much is clear. But to mention him in the same breath as Aaron Maybin?

Zay Jones has 968 yards and 9 TDs across his first two NFL seasons, catching passes from guys like Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, and rookie Josh Allen. He had more touchdown receptions last year than AJ Green, Alshon Jeffrey, TY Hilton, Odell Beckham Jr, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, etc.

Just for the sake of comparison, Bills all time great Eric Moulds had 573 yards and 2 TDs in his first two seasons, and he was catching passes from Jim Kelly in year 1.

Zay's no All Pro at this point. But he's far from a bust, and I think he'll be a #2 WR in the NFL for a long time.

 

 

Zay Jones is Josh Reed. He's meh. But what makes things worse for a lot of people, me included is that we gave up draft capital to trade up to get him, and passed on Cooper Kupp and JuJu. Now that's not Zay's fault, but it is what it is. What is his fault is that he doesn't catch the ball. Great receivers like TO had a lot of drops, but he was a gamebreaker. You can't be a meh jag receiver and not be able to catch the ball. Zay is nowhere near Moulds in terms of ability and upside. Zay is a Josh Reed type. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[teef]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

 

Hmm, he drops more passes than he catches just about.  He's at the point he needs to start proving that he's not a bust IMO.

wha?

[BuffAlone]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

 

Hmm, he drops more passes than he catches just about.  He's at the point he needs to start proving that he's not a bust IMO.

I'd like to see a link to that......

Just because you got Andre Reed on your show this week, don't mean Zay sucks?

Edited April 4, 2019 by BuffAlone

[SWATeam]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Zay Jones is Josh Reed. He's meh. But what makes things worse for a lot of people, me included is that we gave up draft capital to trade up to get him, and passed on Cooper Kupp and JuJu. Now that's not Zay's fault, but it is what it is. What is his fault is that he doesn't catch the ball. Great receivers like TO had a lot of drops, but he was a gamebreaker. You can't be a meh jag receiver and not be able to catch the ball. Zay is nowhere near Moulds in terms of ability and upside. Zay is a Josh Reed type. 

Josh Reed had 10 career TD's.  Zay had 7 last year.  And Zay had more yards in his 2nd season than Reed had in any season of his career.

 

Let's not be so quick to claim with certainty that we know who Zay Jones is just yet.

[teef]

3 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

I'd like to see a link to that......

Just because you got Andre Reed on your show this week, don't mean Zay sucks?

it may be one of the dumber comments we see today.

[BuffAlone]

1 minute ago, teef said:

it may be one of the dumber comments we see today.

Meh...its early yet

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

wha?

The answers is  - You can't fix  (cherry pickers) stupid.

 

Yes, in 2017 Zay Jones caught only 36.5% of the passes thrown in his direction.  (how many were catchable) 

In 2018 Zay Jones caught 54.9% of the passes thrown in his direction. 

 

Not stellar but an improvement you hope to see get better with age.  

6 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

I'd like to see a link to that......

 

here's mine 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2018.htm

 

[teef]

Just now, BuffAlone said:

Meh...its early yet

this is unfortunately true.

 

 

not to say that zay doesn't need to keep improving.  he does, but it's strange the dislike he got from a reasonably productive second year wr.  he may not live up to what they gave up for him, but there's such a strange narrative concerning him.

[napmaster]

Zay has improved but still seems to lose concentration and drops balls he shouldn't at time.  It frustrating, but there is still upside for him at this point.  No where near a bust.

 

 

Watching this makes you realize how little separation our receivers got last year, but Josh Allen was able to get catchable passes to them. 

[BuffAlone]

Just now, teef said:

this is unfortunately true.

 

 

not to say that zay doesn't need to keep improving.  he does, but it's strange the dislike he got from a reasonably productive second year wr.  he may not live up to what they gave up for him, but there's such a strange narrative concerning him.

3 years for a WR to reach his potential in the NFL used to be the gold standard and fully acceptable. Do rookies come in and dominate? Sometimes. Is it the norm? No. I expect a solid year from him this year

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, teef said:

wha?

Apparently it was his understanding there would be no math involved in this thread...

[SoCal Deek]

All I can say is it’s a good thing the players have their names on the backs of their jerseys ‘cuz there’s no way Josh Allen is going to know who all these new Linemen are when he walks up under Center! I hope he’s busy memorizing names.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Can we get this thread back on track?  

 

There are plenty of Zay Jones sucks threads