NakedSquid Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Serious question, why is the punter the holder? I thought it should always be the back up QB or a gadget player. That would provide more options for a fake or bad snap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillswin Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Nope it's the punter for all teams in real life. You are thinking of Madden where the holder is the backup QB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedSquid Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 Huh Madden has the right of it. But why the punter? It's not a rule Ok found this explanation by BILL B https://www.google.com/amp/www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2013/09/football_nerd_alert_bill_belichick_explains_history_of_using%3famp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Can't have your backup QB practicing holding the ball for the kicker all through practice while the offense is practicing, and have him never get to throw or run plays. Much more valuable to have your backup QB up to speed on the offense, than to be able to run a gadget play once a year with them. Makes the most sense time-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Probably because during practice the punter is the one other guy besides the kicker and the long snapper with nothing else to do, so have him hold. Agreed using backup QB would give more options but for the couple times a year in may come into play, probably teams don't feel it's worth it. For years wasn't Frank Reich the holder? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, buffalobillswin said: Nope it's the punter for all teams in real life. You are thinking of Madden where the holder is the backup QB not at all, I've watched games recently where it's the backup QB out there, as stated by the announcers (beware of 100% dogmatic always/has to be statements in life) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Romo and others have been holders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holder_(gridiron_football)#Backup_quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Trust de process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I've wondered that too, but it seems there are very very few bobbled snaps by the NFL holders, and punters are used to looking the ball in and catching bullet snaps. As an aside, we must have set an NFL record with three different punters and four different qb's in the same season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roch Jim Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Back in the day, Frank Reich was the holder. I remember this as a discussion point during the comeback game, as Houston had their punter as the holder, and when he bobbled the snap, he spazzed and Houston lost a FG opportunity. The announcer commented that Frank Reich, as Bills holder, had better hands, and also better ability to react to a busted play. Normally, the punter makes sense, as he and the kicker have more practice time together. However, with our unprecedented turnover at punter this year (4!!!), maybe having the stability of a backup QB would be better....uh based on how we've handled the backup QB position this year, never mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I just assumed it was because A) at this level, a punter probably has super hand/eye coordination and is used to catching the snap and B) the punter has the time in practice to handle this duty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Are they just keeping all the odd balls in one place so they can keep an eye on them? ? I get the backup QB gives options, but the point was made they need to be more with the offense. The punter is used to catching long snaps, he’s just doing it with different hand placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Augie said: Are they just keeping all the odd balls in one place so they can keep an eye on them? ? I get the backup QB gives options, but the point was made they need to be more with the offense. The punter is used to catching long snaps, he’s just doing it with different hand placement. ?This is always what crosses my mind, FG units are like the Island of Misfit Toys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Reich was money as the backup QB and the holder for Christie on this day...classic images! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Love ya Scottie but why couldn't Christie be the one kicking that 47 yd FG on that fateful Jan. 1991 night in Tampa when i was sitting at the 50 yard line?!?!?!? Ok, sorry,,, that pic took me back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Probably because during practice the punter is the one other guy besides the kicker and the long snapper with nothing else to do, so have him hold. Agreed using backup QB would give more options but for the couple times a year in may come into play, probably teams don't feel it's worth it. For years wasn't Frank Reich the holder? yes, he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Tony Romo as the starting QB was the holder for the Cowboys. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 For some reason I remember Gibran Hamdan (3rd string QB for few years) being the holder, but I'm not 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillswin Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 45 minutes ago, row_33 said: not at all, I've watched games recently where it's the backup QB out there, as stated by the announcers (beware of 100% dogmatic always/has to be statements in life) I'd love an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 52 minutes ago, NakedSquid said: Serious question, why is the punter the holder? I thought it should always be the back up QB or a gadget player. That would provide more options for a fake or bad snap. Our best gadget player on FGs was our punter Moorman; he was a hurdler and made a number of good plays on fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Being the holder Worked well for Tony Romo didnt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I think one of the reasons is the team has had too much instability at the backup QB position. Maybe if Barkley signs a multi-year contract and they can count on him as being the clear #2 QB, then we can have the backup QB holding. However, if Bojorquez is the punter next year, he'll probably hold as long as he understands the difference between a FG and a fake. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuru4 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Always wondered why a depth wr couldn’t be the holder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, buffalobillswin said: Nope it's the punter for all teams in real life. You are thinking of Madden where the holder is the backup QB Years ago, always back up QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Kicking Teams / specialists practice together most often, so if the punter is capable - he does the holding. That said, for fakes it would be best if a QB held or someone who could throw and run . . . Logan Thomas? Micah Hyde? Interesting question. Edited December 4, 2018 by Never NEVER Give-up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Way back when, Bobby Chandler (WR) was a holder. You want/need someone that has practice catching a fast snap. Used to be, as I recall, more often than not, it would be the backup QB. However, I suspect, w/ the increasing complexity of the game, requiring more study & practice, and now coupled w/ practice restrictions due to the CBA, in most cases, it just makes more sense to have the more practiced punter do it. One other thing - as punters have improved considerably over the last 10 yrs or so, I suspect so has their general athleticism. As such, less reason not to have them doing it. Additionally, punters don't usually get hurt, QBs do thereby allowing for more continuity. Edited December 4, 2018 by eSJayDee Another thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, buffalobillswin said: Nope it's the punter for all teams in real life. You are thinking of Madden where the holder is the backup QB 3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: Makes more sense to have a QB do it. Keeps the threat of a fake FG, or if you run a fake, you have a QB throwing the ball. If practice is an issue, could we train Logan Thomas to be the holder? Consistency and a (former college) QB. Edited December 4, 2018 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Isn't this a pretty self explanatory question ? I think it's because "He himself is a kicker" & & they want to have that one person that is taking up that roster spot to do more than one thing ! The real question is why don't they hire one guy to do both place kicking & punting ? Of course then they would have to use a back up QB to be the holder & if the Place kicker/punter got injured they would be screwed unless the back up QB learned not only to be the back up QB but the place kicker & the punter to then he would have 3 jobs which would save the team on roster spots also ... But then the Long snapper would have to be the holder for the back up QB/Place kicker/Punter but then why couldn't the Long snapper be the holder for the place kicker/punter ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I would think you could use any mostly dedicated teams player/returner. Logan thomas already helped execute a fake punt - he's athletic enough to run around and buy time, and has a good arm. I guess it would take away some reps though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Teams changed it up after Romo dropped it during the playoff game against Seattle. Seriously though...good question. The rate at which we change punters you would think they would have someone "more permanent" do it. 12 minutes ago, dneveu said: I would think you could use any mostly dedicated teams player/returner. Logan thomas already helped execute a fake punt - he's athletic enough to run around and buy time, and has a good arm. I guess it would take away some reps though? Logan Thomas is inactive a lot.... Edited December 4, 2018 by Azucho98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, NakedSquid said: Serious question, why is the punter the holder? I thought it should always be the back up QB or a gadget player. That would provide more options for a fake or bad snap. It used to to always be the back-up QB and before that it was whoever you had that had the best hands - very little training and practice time was spent on kicking. As the kicking game and special teams in general has become more specialized - the change gradually occurred to move away from other players/back-up QBs to the punter because the kicker, punter, and the long snapper can all get together and practice the snaps and holds while the rest of the team is practicing. It allows for the three of them to practice the snap hundreds of times throughout the week without pulling guys away from the team practice. Do not be fooled though because the back-up QB (or other designated player) will also do a small amount of holding in practicing- just in case the punter is injured (see the Tony Romo incident). You also have practice where the punter (or other back-up kicker) will attempt a few kicks and the kicker will attempt some punts - just to make sure everyone is aware in case of injury, but that number of snaps is very limited. The teams will usually have a dedicated segment on various days just to practice this stuff along with coverage and other potential issues - like fakes and the such. I am not aware of any current NFL team that routinely uses anyone other than the punter as the holder for FGs and XPs. I have seen a QB here or there, but it is almost always associated with an injury. I do not know what to make of Crossman - he has never been a great coach as far as what I can see (although he has had a few top units). The last couple of years the penalties and mistakes just seen to keep growing. I can’t tell if it is the amount of change and different personnel or him just being a bad coach or a combination of the two. I unfortunately agree that it is probably time to move on and see if we can get something better out of that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Azucho98 said: Teams changed it up after Romo dropped it during the playoff game against Seattle. Seriously though...good question. The rate at which we change punters you would think they would have someone "more permanent" do it. Logan Thomas is inactive a lot.... Good point - the likelihood of injury for all non-punters is like 1000% higher. And QBs get hurt pretty frequently too. 11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: It used to to always be the back-up QB and before that it was whoever you had that had the best hands - very little training and practice time was spent on kicking. As the kicking game and special teams in general has become more specialized - the change gradually occurred to move away from other players/back-up QBs to the punter because the kicker, punter, and the long snapper can all get together and practice the snaps and holds while the rest of the team is practicing. It allows for the three of them to practice the snap hundreds of times throughout the week without pulling guys away from the team practice. Do not be fooled though because the back-up QB (or other designated player) will also do a small amount of holding in practicing- just in case the punter is injured (see the Tony Romo incident). You also have practice where the punter (or other back-up kicker) will attempt a few kicks and the kicker will attempt some punts - just to make sure everyone is aware in case of injury, but that number of snaps is very limited. The teams will usually have a dedicated segment on various days just to practice this stuff along with coverage and other potential issues - like fakes and the such. I am not aware of any current NFL team that routinely uses anyone other than the punter as the holder for FGs and XPs. I have seen a QB here or there, but it is almost always associated with an injury. I do not know what to make of Crossman - he has never been a great coach as far as what I can see (although he has had a few top units). The last couple of years the penalties and mistakes just seen to keep growing. I can’t tell if it is the amount of change and different personnel or him just being a bad coach or a combination of the two. I unfortunately agree that it is probably time to move on and see if we can get something better out of that role. Blocking in the back is like... so common its stunning. If we literally did nothing except fair catch everything, we'd probably have a better punt return unit than we have had over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsGuru4 said: Always wondered why a depth wr couldn’t be the holder On certain teams (cough...cough...) there's a definite chance they'll drop the snap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, zow2 said: Love ya Scottie but why couldn't Christie be the one kicking that 47 yd FG on that fateful Jan. 1991 night in Tampa when i was sitting at the 50 yard line?!?!?!? Ok, sorry,,, that pic took me back. Or have a different holder. Morten Anderson blamed Reich on that kick, saying he had the laces pointing (wide) right, which caused the kick to sail right. You had to bring this up , didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Tony Romo as the starting QB was the holder for the Cowboys. He started that season as the backup QB, though. After he took over as starter, they figured that continuity was important. In retrospect ... Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, dneveu said: Good point - the likelihood of injury for all non-punters is like 1000% higher. And QBs get hurt pretty frequently too. Blocking in the back is like... so common its stunning. If we literally did nothing except fair catch everything, we'd probably have a better punt return unit than we have had over the last few years. Yes and I do not think it would be that close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 since we're asking questions... why do most shoes still have laces instead of velcro closures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 The first I can remember is Brian Moorman. He always held for field goals and extra points. Prior to that I only remember backup quarterbacks doing this job. Not sure why this changed. Maybe because it is more likely to have a backup qb injured than your punter. I don't know, just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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