WHY is Allen really starting?

[PUNT750]

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

[Big Turk]

Because starting Anderson or Barkley does nothing for our future

[greeneblitz]

By the end of next season we will have a answer on Allen one way or another.

[Teddy KGB]

Ahhh yes.     He’s not our guy if he doesn’t look like Tom Brady in his 6th start ??‍♂️??‍♂️

[Coach Tuesday]

WHY are you really starting .... threads?

[Domdab99]

23 minutes ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

Thank god you said this. It's been on everyone's mind and we really didn't have enough Josh Allen threads. 

[Warcodered]

It's what the lizard people want.

[Augie]

28 minutes ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

I regret reading this. I’ve read it far too many times already, and it was generally better stated. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

"It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him?"  Oh brother!

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

Regardless how Allen performs for the rest of the season this regime is invested in him. Even if he flops in the upcoming games the Bills are not in the next draft going to use a high pick on a qb. If they conclude based on what they see from him in these remaining games that he doesn't have the wherewithal to be a franchise qb they will probably go out and get another veteran qb or go with Barkley as a holding pattern qb while they continue to rework the roster. 

 

When the Bills selected Allen it was with the intention of not playing him right away because they knew that he wasn't going to be as ready in his rookie year as some of the other top tier prospects. Their ideal situation was not to play him right away and to bring him along slowly and get him acclimated to the pro game. It didn't work out as planned because of the failed play of the other starting qb forced their hand to put him in. 

 

So I disagree with the notion that this is a test for the HC and GM as regards to their commitment to Allen. I don't believe that it is the case. They are using this year, although it wasn't their original intention, to play Allen so that he will be better prepared for next year. If he doesn't play well in the remaining games it will not alter his position as the future qb. 

 

 

[FearLess Price]

Ham and Pinapples Hand Toss Pizza

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Because starting Anderson or Barkley does nothing for our future

 

If Allen isn't ready, starting him does nothing too.

[formerlyofCtown]

Just a crazy theory here but, I think it might be because he is our starting QB.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

5 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Because starting Anderson or Barkley does nothing for our future

Not entirely true. Barkley is only 28, was viewed as a potential top 10 pick. If Allen is not ready, Barkley gives them the best chance to win now and maybe next year if Allen does not pan out. Barkley can sign a team friendly backup deal for 3-4 yrs at 5-8m a year. If he beats out Allen, then we have stability while we look for the next franchise guy. If Allen wins, we have a solid backup under team control until the end of Allen's rookie deal. Win/Win 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BillsRdue said:

Not entirely true. Barkley is only 28, was viewed as a potential top 10 pick. If Allen is not ready, Barkley gives them the best chance to win now and maybe next year if Allen does not pan out. Barkley can sign a team friendly backup deal for 3-4 yrs at 5-8m a year. If he beats out Allen, then we have stability while we look for the next franchise guy. If Allen wins, we have a solid backup under team control until the end of Allen's rookie deal. Win/Win 

 

"Winning now" 

 

The disease that kept the Bills out of the playoffs for 17 straight years.

 

Who gives us the best chance to scrape to 9-7 is not the way we need to think. This needs to be Josh Allen's job until it is clear he is not the guy. Whether that is sometime in 2019 or whether it is sometime in 2035 after a couple of Superbowl wins. 

[ALF]

Allen needs experience if he is 100% recovered and the OL is viable , two big ifs . 

[nucci]

Because he's the starting QB...

[GimmeSomeProcess]

8 hours ago, greeneblitz said:

By the end of next season we will have a answer on Allen one way or another.

Not this season but starting him the rest of this season and into next most  certainly will 

[Victory Formation]

8 hours ago, greeneblitz said:

By the end of next season we will have a answer on Allen one way or another.

Not quite. We need to see an upward trajectory that's all. QBs take a painfully long time to develop but it'll payoff if you're patient. Could realistically see growth over a 10 year period with Allen.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Warcodered said:

It's what the lizard people want.

 

REPTOIDS

[fansince88]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

WHY are you really starting .... threads?

This

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

If Allen isn't ready, starting him does nothing too.

 

....he needs reps but NOT repairs............

[Kemp]

He needs to develop abilities he never even showed in college. 

[Dopey]

WHY did you make it seem like you were asking WHY he is starting, when you weren't actually ASKING a question?

 WHY???

[H2o]

Look at Goff in his 1st year, Trubisky in his, Peyton Manning in his first season. You play Allen, let him get experience, and improve the team around him in the offseason. The discussion of sh*t canning him after 6 starts as a ROOKIE is absolutely retarded. 

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, greeneblitz said:

By the end of next season we will have a answer on Allen one way or another.

 

Not necessarily.  Look at recent first round QBs like Bortles and Winston who have shown just enough to keep their teams "hanging on" to them but they simply aren't that good.

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, H2o said:

Look at Goff in his 1st year, Trubisky in his, Peyton Manning in his first season. You play Allen, let him get experience, and improve the team around him in the offseason. The discussion of sh*t canning him after 6 starts as a ROOKIE is absolutely retarded. 

 

Is anyone suggesting that? I mean I agree it is mental if they are.... but I'm not seeing that. If anything I am seeing people say "put him on the shelf the whole year so he is 100% healthy for 2019. I think that is wrong too but that is the only "don't start" Allen sentiment I am saying.

[BmarvB]

I'd be more inclined to stick with the hot hand and start Barkley against Jacksonville, then hand the keys over to Allen. It won't hurt to give him one more game to watch and learn from a different veteran who's at least accomplishing something with this offense.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Not necessarily.  Look at recent first round QBs like Bortles and Winston who have shown just enough to keep their teams "hanging on" to them but they simply aren't that good.

 

Yea I think if we "know" by the end of next year it is probably know in a bad way. If he shows progress next year but is just okay we might not know for a couple more years..... the Dolphins still don't "know" what they have in Tannehill.

Edited November 15, 2018 by GunnerBill

[SoCal Deek]

My answer to the question? Allen shouldn’t be starting against Jacksonville. I would  start Barkley and see how it goes. Putting Allen back out there looks to me like the Coaching Staff doesn’t want to embarrassed by Barkley doing well again and then having to answer questions about their early and offseason decisions.

[billsredneck1]

the team protests and they start barkley. we go on a winning streak destroying opponents including an upset at ne to possibly take the division title.

 

then against the titans in the playoffs, the staff decides to start allen....who loses his shoe while scrambling for a 1st down that leads to a go ahead field goal....

 

then on the ensuing kickoff....music city miracle part 2....20 years to the day.  wouldn't that be a hoot.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Not quite. We need to see an upward trajectory that's all. QBs take a painfully long time to develop but it'll payoff if you're patient. Could realistically see growth over a 10 year period with Allen.

 

Allen needs to take a big step forward sometime next year and maintain that improved level or get better.  That seems to be the pattern for young QBs who become successful QBs: they improve significantly some time in their second season as starters and maintain that high level of play.  You'll see that pattern repeated in the career of almost every current  NFL QB who is considered "great".  The QBs who don't make that jump in their second season -- and maintain it -- tend to end up as mediocre starters at best.

 

 

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I think if we "know" by the end of next year it is probably know in a bad way. If he shows progress next year but is just okay we might not know for a couple more years..... the Dolphins still don't "know" what they have in Tannehill.

 

Exactly. Tannehill is probably the poster boy for this kind of QB, especially since he can really throw some pretty passes.  There's just something missing from him.  I think he just isn't a clutch player IMO.

 

It's better for the team if the QB just out right busts than if he's "just not quite good enough" because the team won't invest in a new potential franchise QB if they might have one already on the roster.  That's how LA and Philly ended up with Goff and Wentz while the Bucs have Winston and Titans have Mariota (who may be pretty good but not on the caliber of Goff or Wentz).

Edited November 15, 2018 by SoTier

[K-9]

5 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

Not entirely true. Barkley is only 28, was viewed as a potential top 10 pick. If Allen is not ready, Barkley gives them the best chance to win now and maybe next year if Allen does not pan out. Barkley can sign a team friendly backup deal for 3-4 yrs at 5-8m a year. If he beats out Allen, then we have stability while we look for the next franchise guy. If Allen wins, we have a solid backup under team control until the end of Allen's rookie deal. Win/Win 

Barkley was viewed as a potential top 10 in his junior year.

 

Then reality set in during his senior year and he wasn’t viewed as a top 10 pick by anyone.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Exactly. Tannehill is probably the poster boy for this kind of QB, especially since he can really throw some pretty passes.  There's just something missing from him.  I think he just isn't a clutch player IMO.

 

Accuracy, consistency, toughness, leadership. Other than that I suppose he is okay.....

 

But you are right... he is in year 7 (missed one whole year injured) and he has kind of teased without ever delivering.

[Steptide]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Because starting Anderson or Barkley does nothing for our future

Yes basically this. If Allen starts the next 6 games and is not good or shows no improvement, it wouldnt surprise me if the bills draft another qb. Starting Anderson or Barkley only delays the inevitable 

[Victory Formation]

10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Allen needs to take a big step forward sometime next year and maintain that improved level or get better.  That seems to be the pattern for young QBs who become successful QBs: they improve significantly some time in their second season as starters and maintain that high level of play.  You'll see that pattern repeated in the career of almost every current  NFL QB who is considered "great".  The QBs who don't make that jump in their second season -- and maintain it -- tend to end up as mediocre starters at best

He just needs to show the juice is worth the squeeze. Eli Manning was notorious for his struggles as was Drew Brees and it went on for quite some time. QBs continue to get better and better over time. To me it's all about an upward trajectory.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

He just needs to show the juice is worth the squeeze. Eli Manning was notorious for his struggles as was Drew Brees and it went on for quite some time. QBs continue to get better and better over time. To me it's all about an upward trajectory.

 

I agree that so long as he is on an obvious upward curve after year 2 he gets to start year 3. But that benefit of the doubt doesn't last much beyond that. By mid-year 3 he needs to be playing at a high level or else I am drafting another.

[Magox]

If Allen plays mediocre football the rest of the year that certainly wouldn't be definitive but at the same time you hope to see improvement with his decision making, if he is able to process what is happening in front of him quicker, pre read defenses and steady improvement on his mechanics ie. accuracy.    This is what you look for more than anything.

[bigK14094]

this season is over for all intents and purposes.  So, its a good time for Allen to polish skills, learn the game with OJT.  Maybe, just maybe he will be ready next year then.  He is not ready now based on what we have seen to date.  He is a stud out there, and I like him on the hoof, but he needs to show QB finess  and accuracy in running the team before we go all in for the next decade.

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree that so long as he is on an obvious upward curve after year 2 he gets to start year 3. But that benefit of the doubt doesn't last much beyond that. By mid-year 3 he needs to be playing at a high level or else I am drafting another.

I think he will be ok and as far as drafting another goes, that needs to be done now. I'd take one as high as RD2. You don't mess around with QB and if you're McDermott, you're a fool if you go into next year with just Allen and Barkley. So long as Allen throws a 2:1 TD:INT ratio I'd leave him alone. Doesn't need to be jaw dropping numbers. 3,200 yards 21 TDs and 10 picks or something in that vicinity and I'd leave him alone. That to me is plausible improvement.