How does a QB deficient team pass on Mahomes/Watson

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you think this makes any sense by any stretch of the imagination?

 

John will rationalise most Bills decisions. 

[Shaw66]

14 hours ago, CookieG said:

lol...welp...when I was growing up, it was during the Lamonica era in Oakland.  In those days, the Raiders were really the Raiders, the badasses of the AFl/AFC. Not only was it pre-Interwebia, but it was pre-cable. The Raiders were on TV a lot.

 

and from my childhood memories, whenever they were on, my father, an uncle, a neighbor or whatever grown ups were in the room, someone would remark, "Why'd we ever trade that guy?" Then the discussion would begin. 

 

And that was years after he was traded, and pretty much went on as long as he was their QB. I don't suspect it was different from other Buffalo area households.

 

Unless Allen becomes the stud he's supposed to be, or until Mahomes does an RGIII, expect it to continue.

 

Watching a guy you passed on become Kurt Warner before your eyes isn't easy to watch...especially when the consensus was that an upgrade from Tyrod was priority one.

 

I mean, damn...a few weeks ago, someone started the discussion about who was really responsible for drafting EJ Manuel, Buddy or Whaley? That was 5 years ago, when the alternative was...um.? 

 

This has been 7 games..I don't know why anyone would think people would remain silent.

Oh, yeah, the Lamonica angst went on for years and years.   

 

On the other hand, something that was easily forgotten in those days was that the Bills acquired Jack Kemp when the Chargers screwed something up on the waiver rules, and Kemp proceed to beat the Chargers for two successive AFL championships.   Every team has these stories, except the Patriots, whose nearly 20-year run has made the fans forget all of the earlier screw ups.  

 

These decisions are hard.  In the case of Mahomes and Watson, I can only speculate, but there are reasons that seem plausible.   First, as others have said, McDermott had good reason not to trust Whaley's judgment.  As for Watson, there were plenty of people concerned that he was the next EJ Manuel.   Yes, you could point to things that looked different about him, but when you're living with the consequences of choosing EJ, as McD was, I can understood not wanting to make that mistake again.  (And Whaley already had drunk the Clemson kool-aid once with Watkins, so that probably made McD a little reluctant if Whaley was now selling Watson.)   As for Mahomes, he was coming from a school that hadn't turned out any  good QBs.  It HAD turned out receivers like Crabtree, Welker and Amendola.  Texas Tech had an offense that seemed to work with scheme, flashy receivers and a good athlete at QB.  So there was a reason to be suspicious.  

 

Given that, McD probably looked at the 2018 class and thought "let me get my feet wet first, let's get my kind of GM in here and then we'll figure out the QB problem."  

 

Finally, I'll say this.  Mahomes looks great.  So does Watson.  I think Allen looks great.   Mahomes has an outstanding head coach, one of the best in any era.  He also has outstanding talent around him.  Watson has a good coach and some really good talent around him (although Fuller just went down).  I'd love to have either of the other two, but I'm not unhappy with the man the Bills have at QB.  And I think Allen playing on either of those other teams would have been having real success.  

[BananaB]

What’s done is done. I really don’t think Mahomes would have the same success here with KB and Zay. Same can be said for Watson who is playing with the best WR in the game. Not sure why people dwell on this ***** so much. Every team is different, every player is different.  Those guys are lucky to be drafted to teams that have good supporting cast

[Bing Bong]

4 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

miss Thad. He wasn't good, but that game he played in New Orleans where he took the shot to the ribs. He gave it everything.

I miss the hell out of Thad. Would kill to have 2013 Thad on this roster backing up when all hell breaks loose

[jahnyc]

A few quick points:

 

1.  I don't agree with the "would not develop here" comments.  It is up to the front office and coaching staff to make sure that there is an environment in which a drafted QB can develop and thrive (including having a back-up veteran QB mentor, a better o-line and WRs, and an experienced QB coach).  I continue to be dismayed at the lack of attention paid by the front office and coaching staff to do this when the plan all along was to trade up and take QB with a very early pick in the first round.  They have shown a complete lack of competency, and signing Anderson, after Allen was injured, is not enough to fix it.  

 

2.  It cost us a lot to move up and draft Allen.  Taking Mahomes would have started the process of developing a QB one year earlier and would have allowed us to keep valuable draft capital that this team desperately needed.  I get it that hindsight is 20-20, but I am tired of the excuses, and our front office has to be judged on their successes and misses.  We have missed too many times over the past number of years.

 

3.  As other posters have suggested, we do need a head/president of football operations.  I am not sure McBeane has shown the necessary competency and abilities to handle what has become a huge job to rebuild the roster.  I continue to be stumped as to why the Pegulas gave so much power to McDermott upon his hiring.  He had never been a HC or acted in a player personnel capacity.  They should have hired a GM with experience as a GM and then let the GM pick a coach.  As is typical with us, this process was done the opposite way it is usually done and we are left paying the price.

Edited October 27, 2018 by jahnyc

[billsfan_34]

18 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I always kind of assumed McD wanted a more polished guy.

 

then we took the least polished guy of either draft (you know, of the viable ones... I’m talking top picks)

Aint that a bummer?

Edited October 27, 2018 by billsfan_34

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

John will rationalise most Bills decisions. 

He will but dontcha love him?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

He will but dontcha love him?

 

I do. TBD would be a poorer place without him. 

[Fadingpain]

2 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Fans like this seem to be just looking for excuses to make themselves feel better. 

 

"Hindsight is a wonderful thing"

"Mahomes and Watson wouldn't be good in Buffalo anyway" blah blah blah.

 

I guess the Bills organization can literally do no wrong with some fans.

You have to remember that all Bills fans, basically, are in some stage of the grieving process.

We all love the team and want them to succeed badly.  No one doubts that.  Yet they have had very little success over their entire history, and they have been average to terrible for the entire 21st century.

 

We're all grieving.  A lot of fans have not made it out of the first stage: denial.  It's what allows us to survive a loss in our lives.  Most of this message board is in denial, IMO.  There was a sizable group here, for example, that defended Doug Whaley up until the end of his tenure in Buffalo, despite him being a thoroughly terrible GM.  A sizable contingent here refused to see that EJ Manuel is/was horrible.  Many still think Tyrod is a good QB and we were dumb to get rid of him.

 

It's all denial.  

 

The latest manifestation of this around here is Josh Allen.  Posters are starting threads declaring him to be a star on the rise.  Many have already declared him our next great franchise QB, after Jim Kelly.  In reality, he has always been a high risk, long shot project, and he is still exhibiting all the traits that made him that; he has shown nothing to suggest he'll be a good QB in the NFL.  At least not yet.  And yet folks are convinced he's "the one".  

 

It's denial.

 

 

[stuvian]

14 hours ago, mattynh said:

Listened to Bruce Arian’s today. He said the cardinals wanted mahomes or Watson and both got picked just before them.   He said he may still be coaching if it had worked out.   Our guys saw no value in them.  

 

not true. There's no proof that our organization saw no value in these players. We had hired McDermott but not Beane at the time of this draft. terry and Kim didn't want a franchise QB being picked until the new organization under Beane was fully formed. It was all about timing.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

20 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I just don’t understand how this happened. I know I am beating a dead horse. But honestly I thought drafts are about best player available/ filling a team need at the same time. Is it really possible that McDermott didn’t think either were NFL caliber players? I just don’t see how if he thought they were franchise QBs how he could pass on either. The Chiefs has a starting QB and traded up. This really makes me question his talent evaluation on offense. And makes me worry about Josh Allen. Who basically came out rawer and way less accomplished then either QB he passed on. Has he ever been asked this question? And if so, what was his answer? Is his only excuse is he didn’t have a GM? I mean if he did see them as franchise QBs how could you pass on adding the corner stone of your team for years to come? Not making that pick forces us to waste a lot of future picks, and is the reason we are in a complete rebuild. Getting Mahomes/Watson that year changes everything. We’d still have Glenn and Dawkins which together gives our OLine a great start.  Would have been able to fill the middle in FA and draft. And used the 2018 offseason to offense and a few defense through the draft. This was a huge blunder by McDermott and is the reason we are in a complete tear down and build process. I feel like McBeane did this to guarantee their jobs for as many years as possible. I say this “PROCESS” gives them a minimum of 4 years of a having guaranteed job

 

So many teams have swung and missed on QB's, it's the hardest position in football to get right, when teams do they're genius' and when they don't it's always hindsight to lay blame,. How could the Bills have passed on Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahommes, Deshaun Watson, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and countless others? Besides the obvious fact of not having a GM made it next to impossible to sign a QB, I doubt any respectable GM would have come here with a QB that the HC just drafted even Beane for that matter. I don't think I've ever heard or scene a scenario like that but I'm not sure. The second opinion of mine would be that Mcdermott worked out the QB prospects and didn't think they fit here for whatever reason, just my 2 pennies.

[mannc]

45 minutes ago, stuvian said:

 

terry and Kim didn't want a franchise QB being picked until the new organization under Beane was fully formed. It was all about timing.

Because, what could be worse than picking a franchise QB too soon?

Edited October 27, 2018 by mannc

[White Linen]

20 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I just don’t understand how this happened. I know I am beating a dead horse. But honestly I thought drafts are about best player available/ filling a team need at the same time. Is it really possible that McDermott didn’t think either were NFL caliber players? I just don’t see how if he thought they were franchise QBs how he could pass on either. The Chiefs has a starting QB and traded up. This really makes me question his talent evaluation on offense. And makes me worry about Josh Allen. Who basically came out rawer and way less accomplished then either QB he passed on. Has he ever been asked this question? And if so, what was his answer? Is his only excuse is he didn’t have a GM? I mean if he did see them as franchise QBs how could you pass on adding the corner stone of your team for years to come? Not making that pick forces us to waste a lot of future picks, and is the reason we are in a complete rebuild. Getting Mahomes/Watson that year changes everything. We’d still have Glenn and Dawkins which together gives our OLine a great start.  Would have been able to fill the middle in FA and draft. And used the 2018 offseason to offense and a few defense through the draft. This was a huge blunder by McDermott and is the reason we are in a complete tear down and build process. I feel like McBeane did this to guarantee their jobs for as many years as possible. I say this “PROCESS” gives them a minimum of 4 years of a having guaranteed job

 

Can you not understand very simple things?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 hours ago, simpleman said:

Wrong answer. KC rated him not only 1st round, but worth 2 1st rounds, and a third. Just shows what competent scouting and drafting for QBs and offensive players looks like . Wish the Bills had that level of competence.

 

 

LOL Just to put things in perspective this same competent scouting that you're talking about, while likely not the same identical top to bottom front office and coaching staff, the guy in the middle of all that Andy Reid during his years with the Eagles drafted Kevin Kolb in the 1st round, AJ Feeley, Andy Hall and Donovan McNabb (got one right)  So is he really so s smart or just got lucky.

 

And lets give a little more time than 6 games too.  Dak Prescott was looking amazing the first 10 games of his rookie year.  Since then looks OK, but not great.

[stuvian]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Because, what could be worse than picking a franchise QB too soon?

subjecting him to a dysfunctional organization

[Real McClappy]

2 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You have to remember that all Bills fans, basically, are in some stage of the grieving process.

We all love the team and want them to succeed badly.  No one doubts that.  Yet they have had very little success over their entire history, and they have been average to terrible for the entire 21st century.

 

We're all grieving.  A lot of fans have not made it out of the first stage: denial.  It's what allows us to survive a loss in our lives.  Most of this message board is in denial, IMO.  There was a sizable group here, for example, that defended Doug Whaley up until the end of his tenure in Buffalo, despite him being a thoroughly terrible GM.  A sizable contingent here refused to see that EJ Manuel is/was horrible.  Many still think Tyrod is a good QB and we were dumb to get rid of him.

 

It's all denial.  

 

The latest manifestation of this around here is Josh Allen.  Posters are starting threads declaring him to be a star on the rise.  Many have already declared him our next great franchise QB, after Jim Kelly.  In reality, he has always been a high risk, long shot project, and he is still exhibiting all the traits that made him that; he has shown nothing to suggest he'll be a good QB in the NFL.  At least not yet.  And yet folks are convinced he's "the one".  

 

It's denial.

 

 

Should have stopped at bolded. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Real McCoy

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You have to remember that all Bills fans, basically, are in some stage of the grieving process.

We all love the team and want them to succeed badly.  No one doubts that.  Yet they have had very little success over their entire history, and they have been average to terrible for the entire 21st century.

 

We're all grieving.  A lot of fans have not made it out of the first stage: denial.  It's what allows us to survive a loss in our lives.  Most of this message board is in denial, IMO.  There was a sizable group here, for example, that defended Doug Whaley up until the end of his tenure in Buffalo, despite him being a thoroughly terrible GM.  A sizable contingent here refused to see that EJ Manuel is/was horrible.  Many still think Tyrod is a good QB and we were dumb to get rid of him.

 

It's all denial.  

 

The latest manifestation of this around here is Josh Allen.  Posters are starting threads declaring him to be a star on the rise.  Many have already declared him our next great franchise QB, after Jim Kelly.  In reality, he has always been a high risk, long shot project, and he is still exhibiting all the traits that made him that; he has shown nothing to suggest he'll be a good QB in the NFL.  At least not yet.  And yet folks are convinced he's "the one".  

 

It's denial.

 

 

WHO exactly is saying this?  Jesus

[atlbillsfan1975]

28 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

WHO exactly is saying this?  Jesus

I will say I think he can be the next great quarterback. He has all the tools. Allen has the size. I personally think he has what it takes to be successful. He just needs good coaching.

 

as for Mahomes and Watson, Watson was the one I thought could be a solid starting quarterback based off what he did in the second NC game against Bama. Saban to me is like Bill Belichick. If you give Saban enough time he will more times than not figure out how to beat you. The fact that Watson performed so well against Sabans team the second time showed me something. 

Personally I think Watson has the ability to be a better Russell Wilson ultimate game manager who can make a couple plays at the right time. 

Mahomes is a mystery. He has the greatest play caller as a HC and a ton of talent. The exact opposite what Allen has so far.

[Hebert19]

Hindsight 2020.  Same reason a qb needy team takes Bryce Petty...or a needy one signs Brock O.  

 

You never know.

[longtimebillsfan]

11 hours ago, CookieG said:

I just hope this isn't my generational Lamonica moment.

 

As far as people talking about hindsight, meh. I just know that after the 1st round was over, when my son called to pick him up all he said was "so how pissed off are you"?  IT was the LSU bowl game in his soph. year that sold me. More importantly, the teams that wanted him aren't seeing it as hindsight. I didn't realize Arians wanted him. But NO wanted him as successor to Brees. That's why the Chiefs traded up for him. Teams that knew QBs wanted him.

 

I live in Chiefs country (which is brutal right now), and watching the post draft PC's, I became certain that we made a bad decision. 

The Chiefs weren't even looking for a QB when their draft process began. It started with a regional scout, who kept bugging higher ups to watch tape of him. it kept moving up to eventually Dorsey and Reid. By the end of the evals, they were sold on him, to a man. The common buzz word with him was "special". They weren't going to draft another QB that year, much less trade up for one.  Watching those, I was convinced, thinking "what did we just do here?"

 

Chiefs country is brutal right now. Its not fun to hear people say, "hey! Thanks for Mahomes!"  Damn, our  mailman was chiding me last Sat.

 

And its why I'm pulling for Allen now more than ever. If it ends up being a situation where they got Marino and we got Kelly, I won't complain. But if they got Marino and we got Todd Blackledge, its not going to be easy.  I don't want it to be my Lamonica moment.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep.   Just be the biggest Allen supporter on the planet.   Living in KC has got to be tough for you.  I feel your pain my friend. 

[Zerovoltz]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:49 PM, Rc2catch said:

What are the odds Watson or Mahomes is successful here? Even with the players lost via trade and free agency.

Why is it a given they “missed” on these picks? 

Watson is a year and a half into his career and what 6-7 games for Mahomes? 

While im not sold on Allen as a franchise guy I just don’t see the fascination with other quarterbacks we could of drafted instead.

totally different systems and team situations. 

This line of reasoning is not very sound.  If you are inclined to think Watson and Mahomes couldn’t succeed with Buffalo then you have to ask who possibly could AND, then you’d have to be critical of the Bills for drafting the ultimate project QB.  

 

This logic just turns into a hopeless circle.

 

our team is bad, we need a Qb.  If we take a QB, he will still suck because our team is bad.  Ok, our team is bad, we need a QB.  We will ruin him because our team is bad.  

 

If if you want to say Mahomes would be breaking records if he were a Bill, that is valid, but if you think Mahomes or Rodgers or Marino would just suck because they had this roster, is a lazy way to evaluate a QB.

 

 

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you think this makes any sense by any stretch of the imagination?

 

Trading out of the top ten to take a first round DB to replace a young vet that they let walk in FA rather than take a potential franchise quarterback may not be sensible but it is the quintessential "Billsy" thing to do.  If the Bills FO can screw up a draft, have no doubt that they will do it.

 

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

So many teams have swung and missed on QB's, it's the hardest position in football to get right, when teams do they're genius' and when they don't it's always hindsight to lay blame,. How could the Bills have passed on Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahommes, Deshaun Watson, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and countless others? Besides the obvious fact of not having a GM made it next to impossible to sign a QB, I doubt any respectable GM would have come here with a QB that the HC just drafted even Beane for that matter. I don't think I've ever heard or scene a scenario like that but I'm not sure. The second opinion of mine would be that Mcdermott worked out the QB prospects and didn't think they fit here for whatever reason, just my 2 pennies.

 

The reason that the Bills can't hire a competent NFL gm is because the Bills GM is expected to share power with the HC and with various other FO office personnel who have too much input into football decisions, not because the Bills already had a recently drafted first round QB.   In the case of Brandon Beane, he was apparently hired primarily because of McDermott's influence. 

 

Moreover, draft picks don't have a real choice about what team that they can sign with.  Either they sign with the team that drafted them or they sit out whatever period they have to wait to become eligible for the draft again (or whatever the specific rules are). 

 

Finally, the Bills have missed on QBs because they have long tried to go the cheap route with QBs, mostly making do with lower round draft picks or other teams' discards.  Jim Kelly was the first first round QB the Bills drafted in their history.  They didn't draft another first round QB for 21 years until they took JP Losman in 2004.   They waited another 9 years to draft another QB in the first round.  Even though it was obvious early on that Manuel was a bust, the Bills finally got around to drafting another QB in the first round in 2018. 

 

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

LOL Just to put things in perspective this same competent scouting that you're talking about, while likely not the same identical top to bottom front office and coaching staff, the guy in the middle of all that Andy Reid during his years with the Eagles drafted Kevin Kolb in the 1st round, AJ Feeley, Andy Hall and Donovan McNabb (got one right)  So is he really so s smart or just got lucky.

 

And lets give a little more time than 6 games too.  Dak Prescott was looking amazing the first 10 games of his rookie year.  Since then looks OK, but not great.

 

You are incorrect about Andy Reid's QBs.  Only Patrick Mahomes (2017) and Donovan McNabb (1999) were first round picks.  Kolb was a 2nd rounder (2007).  Andy Hall was a 6th rounder (2004).  AJ Feeley was a 5th round pick in 2001.  FTR, McNabb was the only long term franchise QB from his class.

Edited October 28, 2018 by SoTier

[Success]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

WHO exactly is saying this?  Jesus

No one.  I’ve seen posters who are excited about Allen in general, but no one making any guarantees.

 

Quite a few more have already proclaimed him a bust.  Because he isn’t “progressing.”

[Chimp]

15 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

EJ Manuel would have the highest career QB rating of any qb on the Bils roster right now. 

?

OJ probably would have gotten in trouble in Miami.

Haha, that’s why qb win loss records are a joke.  Allen had 50 yards passing before he completed 2 screen passes in the last drive.  He was awful in the Titans game.  Defense won that game.

You site a qb rating and then call the win loss record a joke.  I get what you're trying to say in that Allen didn't play well, but dude...have you watched EJ play?

[Ol Dirty B]

10 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I miss the hell out of Thad. Would kill to have 2013 Thad on this roster backing up when all hell breaks loose

 

The guy was a gamer and went to Duke. I hate Duke. But Thad is that guy. He's no where near a starter, but smart and gutsy enough to root for. He's like the black Fitz if that comparison makes sense to anyone.

43 minutes ago, Chimp said:

You site a qb rating and then call the win loss record a joke.  I get what you're trying to say in that Allen didn't play well, but dude...have you watched EJ play?

 

I want to be wrong. But in my opinion, Allen has shown nothing more than EJ. I really see nothing, it's just an honest opinion. If you can point to some sign of encouragement, I'm all ears.

[GreggTX]

Obviously Whaley and his scouts weren't that high on them. They are all long gone so why worry about it now?

[Ayjent]

19 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Imagine if Allen was drafted by KC and given a year to mature in that system with all of that talent around him.  Then imagine if Mahomes was drafted by the Bills and in our offense.   This board would be complaining that someone should loose their job over not drafting Allen.   I know the time line does not work out, but I am just stating the system and talent level does affect the success of a quarterback. 

So what part of the organization is responsible for that and how do you fix it?  Because it seems that this rationalization is generally shifting the blame from one obvious circumstance (failure to draft a good player at QB that is having success elsewhere)  to another mysterious one (unstated failure of this organization to be stable for any young QB).

[simpleman]

10 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

LOL Just to put things in perspective this same competent scouting that you're talking about, while likely not the same identical top to bottom front office and coaching staff, the guy in the middle of all that Andy Reid during his years with the Eagles drafted Kevin Kolb in the 1st round, AJ Feeley, Andy Hall and Donovan McNabb (got one right)  So is he really so s smart or just got lucky.

 

And lets give a little more time than 6 games too.  Dak Prescott was looking amazing the first 10 games of his rookie year.  Since then looks OK, but not great.

Really, Dak was a 4^th round pick. Passer rating of 94.

 

Completion percentage:	64.7
Passing yards:	8,408
TD–INT:	53–21
Passer rating:	94.0
Rushing yards:	875
Rushing touchdowns:	14

 

This is his contract:

 

Year	Age	Base Salary (Guaranteed)	Bonuses				Cap Number	Cap %

 

 

2016	23	$450,000	$95,848	$0	$0	$0	$545,848	0.4%
2017	24	$540,000	$95,848	$0	$0	$0	$635,848	0.4%
2018	25	$630,000	$95,848	$0	$0	$0	$725,848	0.4%
2019	26	$720,000	$95,848	$0	$0	$0	$815,848	0.4%
Total		$2,340,000	$383,392	$0	$0	$0	$2,723,392

A majority of NFL teams would be ecstatic to have drafted a starting QB with those stats and that contract from a 1^st round pick, not a 4^th rounder QB where you are lucky to have drafted a career backup or depth player. Maybe not a Brady, but  Brady was a once in a lifetime GOAT.

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by simpleman

[Matt_In_NH]

13 hours ago, stuvian said:

 

not true. There's no proof that our organization saw no value in these players. We had hired McDermott but not Beane at the time of this draft. terry and Kim didn't want a franchise QB being picked until the new organization under Beane was fully formed. It was all about timing.

So they didn't even consider a QB because the "timing was off".  Think about how inept that is.

[stuvian]

1 minute ago, mattynh said:

So they didn't even consider a QB because the "timing was off".  Think about how inept that is.

it makes sense to the people writing the cheques

[Matt_In_NH]

23 minutes ago, stuvian said:

it makes sense to the people writing the cheques

Inept 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

11 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Trading out of the top ten to take a first round DB to replace a young vet that they let walk in FA rather than take a potential franchise quarterback may not be sensible but it is the quintessential "Billsy" thing to do.  If the Bills FO can screw up a draft, have no doubt that they will do it.

 

 

The reason that the Bills can't hire a competent NFL gm is because the Bills GM is expected to share power with the HC and with various other FO office personnel who have too much input into football decisions, not because the Bills already had a recently drafted first round QB.   In the case of Brandon Beane, he was apparently hired primarily because of McDermott's influence. 

 

Moreover, draft picks don't have a real choice about what team that they can sign with.  Either they sign with the team that drafted them or they sit out whatever period they have to wait to become eligible for the draft again (or whatever the specific rules are). 

 

Finally, the Bills have missed on QBs because they have long tried to go the cheap route with QBs, mostly making do with lower round draft picks or other teams' discards.  Jim Kelly was the first first round QB the Bills drafted in their history.  They didn't draft another first round QB for 21 years until they took JP Losman in 2004.   They waited another 9 years to draft another QB in the first round.  Even though it was obvious early on that Manuel was a bust, the Bills finally got around to drafting another QB in the first round in 2018. 

 

 

You are incorrect about Andy Reid's QBs.  Only Patrick Mahomes (2017) and Donovan McNabb (1999) were first round picks.  Kolb was a 2nd rounder (2007).  Andy Hall was a 6th rounder (2004).  AJ Feeley was a 5th round pick in 2001.  FTR, McNabb was the only long term franchise QB from his class.

 

From what I've read many of the GM/HC are a shared position in the NFL.

[Gugny]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:28 PM, Rebel101 said:

I know I am beating a dead horse.

 

Yes, you are.  If you know this, then why create the thread?

[1ManRaid]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:40 PM, Rebel101 said:

On 10/26/2018 at 10:30 PM, Augie said:

Then why? 

Because I wanted to and that’s what this board is for. Why’d you open it, read it, and take the time to copy past and post it? 

Yeah but that’s a terrible reason. He was getting fired either way. It is still undetermined if Allen will be good or not. But yeah we def could have saved ourself a lot of picks 

I could be wrong, but I think there's rules about duplicate threads and posting in a manner that doesn't add anything new or of value to a discussion, especially when you know damn well you're beating a dead horse as you already admitted.

[Rc2catch]

12 hours ago, Zerovotlz said:

This line of reasoning is not very sound.  If you are inclined to think Watson and Mahomes couldn’t succeed with Buffalo then you have to ask who possibly could AND, then you’d have to be critical of the Bills for drafting the ultimate project QB.  

 

This logic just turns into a hopeless circle.

 

our team is bad, we need a Qb.  If we take a QB, he will still suck because our team is bad.  Ok, our team is bad, we need a QB.  We will ruin him because our team is bad.  

 

If if you want to say Mahomes would be breaking records if he were a Bill, that is valid, but if you think Mahomes or Rodgers or Marino would just suck because they had this roster, is a lazy way to evaluate a QB.

 

 

I never said they would suck, but anyone who thinks they would of had the same level of success this short in their careers here given the weapons we lack would be crazy. 

 

Both guys have looked like they could be all pros in the future, my only argument is with the “someone needs to be fired cause we didn’t draft them” crowd because the odds are insanely high they would not look like the same quarterbacks here. In the future maybe but not this fast in their careers. Bills, Texans, and Chiefs are all in different stages of roster building with buffalo being the weakest. 

 

[boater]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:32 PM, stuvian said:

Mahomes is freaking Dan Marino

Sure. When coached by Andy Reid and surrounded by a strong supporting cast.

 

Mahomes would be useless here coached by a defense minded HC, and Brian "fricking" Daboll. And never mind the QB Coach who is as helpful as breasts on a bull.

 

BTW.. you are beating a dead horse.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

18 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Trading out of the top ten to take a first round DB to replace a young vet that they let walk in FA rather than take a potential franchise quarterback may not be sensible but it is the quintessential "Billsy" thing to do.  If the Bills FO can screw up a draft, have no doubt that they will do it.

 

 

The reason that the Bills can't hire a competent NFL gm is because the Bills GM is expected to share power with the HC and with various other FO office personnel who have too much input into football decisions, not because the Bills already had a recently drafted first round QB.   In the case of Brandon Beane, he was apparently hired primarily because of McDermott's influence. 

 

Moreover, draft picks don't have a real choice about what team that they can sign with.  Either they sign with the team that drafted them or they sit out whatever period they have to wait to become eligible for the draft again (or whatever the specific rules are). 

 

Finally, the Bills have missed on QBs because they have long tried to go the cheap route with QBs, mostly making do with lower round draft picks or other teams' discards.  Jim Kelly was the first first round QB the Bills drafted in their history.  They didn't draft another first round QB for 21 years until they took JP Losman in 2004.   They waited another 9 years to draft another QB in the first round.  Even though it was obvious early on that Manuel was a bust, the Bills finally got around to drafting another QB in the first round in 2018. 

 

 

You are incorrect about Andy Reid's QBs.  Only Patrick Mahomes (2017) and Donovan McNabb (1999) were first round picks.  Kolb was a 2nd rounder (2007).  Andy Hall was a 6th rounder (2004).  AJ Feeley was a 5th round pick in 2001.  FTR, McNabb was the only long term franchise QB from his class.

 

I thought Kolb was 1st rounder, guess I mis-read it, the other two, I wasn't implying they were 1st rounders, realized that.  My point being the OP was claiming as to how great of a talent evaluator in QB's Andy Reid is.  Well a 2nd rounder on Kolb wasn't very impressive, plus the bigger point would be how many in that time frame did he pass on that were likely available when he drafted; Arron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, could have traded up a couple of picks for Big Ben just to name a couple of top names.  If he was that smart, he would have easily got one of them for certain.  It just goes to the point that drafting QB's is more a crap shoot than anything.

 

13 teams passed on Mahomes and I'm sure if the other 15 behind that pick felt Mahomes was going to look as good as he has to date, they'd have moved up too.