Allen not showing progress

[John from Riverside]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Sure, but the QB is the most important player on the offense and our offense is the worst in the league. 

 

The offense needs better players at a variety of positions for sure, but I don't think it's any surprise that we're last in pass yards, last in scoring and last in QB Rating.

You are correct that the QB is the most important player

You are correct that at present we have the worst offense in the League

 

It does not change the fact that if playmakers do not make plays on balls, and when they have the ball in their hands NONE of it matters....Allen cannot catch and score with it for them to.

[Norcalbillsfan]

Is it really fair to judge a rookie QB, that has hands down the worst WR core in the league, and arguably the 2nd worst line in the league, not much talent at TE. And a new OC. Peyton, luck, Watson, and many other QBs came into bad teams but I dont think any rookie QB has been asked to perform with such little talent surrounding him.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

 

I didn't see improvement either. Ask yourself this: how many of Allen's completions today came in the pocket? He seems to only be able to make a play once the play breaks down, and frequently he's just taking off and running before there's any real pressure. He's actually gone backwards with his pocket presence. 

Shocker that you would agree with this.....just shocker....you two should get a room

[Matt_In_NH]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Of course. But on two separate plays, Allen threw it down the field 30-40 yards right on the money and the WR caught it. 

I thought the one that counted was great because he threw in rhythm down the field with accuracy.   but not sure about the first one.  It was a busted play

[targetweight185]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I'm sorry but I didn't see it.

 

He was 10 of 17 for 84 yards and put 6 points on the board through almost 3 quarters of play. He also got sacked twice for a loss of 16 yards. 

 

This is inept offensive production. We just can't pass the football like 90% of the teams in the NFL. 

 

I wasn't expecting a star QB off the get go, but this is the worst offense I've ever witnessed in my life as a Bills fan. 

 

Stick to soccer. I don't think football's your thing. If you expected a star QB off the get go, that's crazy.

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, mattynh said:

I thought the one that counted was great because he threw in rhythm down the field with accuracy.   but not sure about the first one.  It was a busted play

Not sure what more you want out of a long pass that hits the WR in two hands and he catches it. You're tough. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Not sure what more you want out of a long pass that hits the WR in two hands and he catches it. You're tough. 

I want good decisions.  If I call your all in with 2-7 and get lucky on the flop was my call correct?

[VW82]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Shocker that you would agree with this.....just shocker....you two should get a room

 

What the heck, man!? Lol. It's fine to disagree, but you seem to be taking/making this personal. Why? People are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours.

 

How am I spewing BS by mentioning that KB refused to work out with Allen pregame, as reported by the media and confirmed by McD? It would seem to be relevant that he has WRs turning on him in a discussion about Allen's progress and his ability to succeed with this group. 

 

Let me ask you, what progress are YOU seeing with him? Why don't you join the discussion and make some points instead of just trolling posters and taking personal shots.

Edited October 15, 2018 by VW82

[NFLBighits]

Josh Allen is fine, and you negative Nancy's out there need to relax as not all talented quarterbacks thrive right away and yes his poise is not as good of lately, with that being said patience as we build and hope to God they get some talented wideouts as I see Zay Jones as the only one worth keeping but the wide receiver position will be better next year hopefully haha.

[djdaddykool]

4 minutes ago, NFLBighits said:

Josh Allen is fine, and you negative Nancy's out there need to relax as not all talented quarterbacks thrive right away and yes his poise is not as good of lately, with that being said patience as we build and hope to God they get some talented wideouts as I see Zay Jones as the only one worth keeping but the wide receiver position will be better next year hopefully haha.

What I do not like of note recently is his tendency to bail and run so quickly. He needs to learn to hang in the pocket and develop the feel to move within it to buy time to make throws. JMHO. But it is an obvious tendency that has to be fixed.

 

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

What the heck, man!? Lol. It's fine to disagree, but you seem to be taking/making this personal. Why? People are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours.

 

How am spewing BS by mentioning that KB refused to work out with Allen pregame, as reported by the media and confirmed by McD? It would seem to be relevant in a discussion about Allen's progress and his ability to succeed with this group. 

 

Let me ask you, what progress are YOU seeing with him? Why don't you join the discussion and make some points instead of just trolling posters and taking personal shots.

Yeah I don't understand the intolerance of differing opinions here. It seems to me that as a long suffering Bills QB watchers we are MORE than qualified to see warning signs. I am NOT saying he won't make it, but the current structure of personnel and lack of good QB coaching makes me very nervous about the situation.

[Norcalbillsfan]

25 minutes ago, mattynh said:

I didn’t do that.  Reread what I wrote.   I have it on dvr.   He just sat there with no emotion when the camera went to him after the td to Jones.  

Alot of guys that are injured go to the locker room and stay there, you rarely see a starter that gets hurt and is jumping up and down excited on the sidelines. He sees it at his team that he wants to lead, hes a competitor, hes pissed if hes not on the feild. I'm ok with that.

[VW82]

2 hours ago, djdaddykool said:

Yeah I don't understand the intolerance of differing opinions here. It seems to me that as a long suffering Bills QB watchers we are MORE than qualified to see warning signs. I am NOT saying he won't make it, but the current structure of personnel and lack of good QB coaching makes me very nervous about the situation.

 

I think the personnel and coaching issues are being a little overblown tbh. If there were never any guys open or the pocket was repeatedly breaking down we might have a problem, but that just isn't the case. My biggest concern is that Allen doesn't appear to be making any progress.

 

Where are the positive signs? Where's the big play ability? We got a glimpse of that in the Vikings game (which they clearly no showed), but this was the third straight game where he's done virtually nothing. That can't all be on the coaches and supporting cast. At some point good QBs make something happen.

 

I'm fine with Allen making mistakes as long as he learns from them. But he's repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and there's no play making on his part to offset them. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by VW82

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Estro said:

When I watch Josh Allen I see Blaine Gabbert, which is the player he reminded me of coming into the draft. 

 

He has the same 2 fatal flaws:

 

Wildly Inaccurate, which IMO, is not fixable 

 

&

 

Drops his eyes and stares at the rush when he feels pressure. 

 

Gun to my head, my take right now.....hes going to be a massive flop, as many smart people predicted he'd be.  

Gabbert had better O line, waaaaay better receivers, better TE imo. And from the begging you could see gabbert didnt have it. I'm not saying allen is the future, but everyone is judging allen when he's probably has the worst supporting cast (except shady) for a rookie in recent memory. 

[78thealltimegreat]

The Texans broadcast pointed out that watching Allen the Bills by design where giving him 1 read and if that wasn’t open to use his legs he only threw 17 passes when he got hurt people want so much to call this kid a bust but you can see his talent he just needs time 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Offer stands....if you got any guts at all you will take me up on it.  If I come up with more on target throw then off target ones you leave....not pissing and moaning....just be gone.

 

Imma sleep on coming up with terms, but be prepared for a completely arbitrary challenge to your existence on this board tomorrow. If you refuse I’ll mock you for being scared but if you accept it’ll be a totally ludicrous standard and a super easy to fudge process to boot. 

[starrymessenger]

Allen has elite physical traits for playing the all important position. He is also very intelligent so in principle and with the benefit of experience he has the cognitive ability to eventually make the right reads pre and post snap and to make good decisions as a result.  He is extremely raw and has not landed in the best situation to be sure. JMO but I think he will be good, even very good, if the game slows down for him. If that happens he should become more comfortable, should display greater poise in the pocket and show more consistency in his throwing mechanics and therefore improved accuracy. There is a reasonable chance of all of that happening if the action slows down for him. 

Whether the game slows down for him has everything to do with whether he has and can nurture that very special and inate ability that franchise guys have to process quickly in real time. It's not something that can be measured in a combine drill. You can only see it in the results. You can be very intelligent, like he is, and not possess that ability. You can otherwise be a dumbass and still be able to do it. It's really a unique attribute. If Allen has it things will work out eventually. If he doesn't, or if he is inherently and incorrigibly skittish because he can't process quickly the things that present themselves to perception on a football field, he will fall short of expectations and perhaps even bust.

It is far too early to know whether he can get there or not. By the end of next year we should have a much better idea whether that faculty lives in the recesses of Josh Allen's brain or is a dead zone (as it is for most mortals). 

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Being at the game you thought they benched him right after his best throw of the game, a long completion? 

That called back for holding....

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Open your eyes and watch the game next time.

 

meanwhile the golden boy of KC just threw a bad pick to end the half in NE.

 

Young QBs learn with time.  To say Allen can't make the throws needed after seeing him out it right in guys several times today is the height of nonsense.

As low as thinking Winston was going to be the next great QB?

Did open my eyes and all I see is a bust

2 hours ago, NFLBighits said:

Josh Allen is fine, and you negative Nancy's out there need to relax as not all talented quarterbacks thrive right away and yes his poise is not as good of lately, with that being said patience as we build and hope to God they get some talented wideouts as I see Zay Jones as the only one worth keeping but the wide receiver position will be better next year hopefully haha.

It’s just that he’s never been good at any point in his career and when he looks like trash it’s not a positive thing

[NFLBighits]

6 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

That called back for holding....

Did open my eyes and all I see is a bust

It’s just that he’s never been good at any point in his career and when he looks like trash it’s not a positive thing

He's never looked like trash to me yet and I said yet so the verdict is still out there and he has all the tools you want in a quarterback, he  just needs to slow down mentally a tad but when the game slows down for him and surround him with a nice cast we all can sit back and enjoy as the most important thing he has going is heart as it shows he puts it all out there and sometimes He's struggling processing the coverages but once he gets through that he will be fine!  Yes trust the process and no Joshing about it! ?

[billsfan89]

Allen's ability to read a defense and work out of the pocket is not very good at the moment. That was the other big non accuracy related issue Allen had coming out of college. Although to be fair to Allen I don't know how much of his current level of play is related to scheme/coaching, lack of reviving talent, subpar O-line play, or his own short comings. 

 

It's probably a mix of all factors combined. But once again Raw rookie looks Raw. It's been 5 starts in this baptism by fire, he is 2-3 as a starter and has only had one game (the Vikings game) where he looked really good. The rest of the games Allen has looked poor and like a player that is going to need a lot of development. 

 

Overall I am a bit disappointed in the way that McBeane and this organization have handled the QB position and the offense in general. I get trading Tyrod on the last year of his deal for a solid but unspectacular return, I understand the cap situation and the trade up for talent made compromising parts of this roster a reality necessary to complete a more long term build, but I can't understand how this regime has set up it's biggest investment (Allen) up for failure. 

 

Even the Daboll coaching decision might not be the worst decision (Although I certainly did not understand the hire) but how can this team have it's veteran starter behind you highly invested rookie QB be Nathan Peterman? How did they get fooled by him twice, how did they not learn that being good in the pre-season is not indicative of future success especially when the guy who is good in the pre-season has looked like hot garbage in the regular season the previous year. 

 

How could you trade AJ McCaron (a QB who probably is nothing more than a high end backup but certainly serviceable) when your only other option in front of a rookie QB is Nathan !@#$ing Peterman. This regimes obsession with him has to be one of the worst decisions they have ever made. 

[Fadingpain]

3 hours ago, targetweight said:

 

Stick to soccer. I don't think football's your thing. If you expected a star QB off the get go, that's crazy.

Did you miss the part where Jrober38 specifically stated he did not expect a star QB off the get go?

 

 

[Warcodered]

24 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Did you miss the part where Jrober38 specifically stated he did not expect a star QB off the get go?

 

 

Then what the hell did he expect? Josh Allen isn't just performing as a rookie QB, he's a rookie QB playing with serious holes on the O-line and receivers and question marks for OC and QB coach.

[Dan Darragh]

13 hours ago, COTC said:

He has guts and is tall, his talent is very questionable.  Too early. 

Derek Anderson is an inch taller

[AllenWillBust]

14 hours ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Is he really the answer? Looks like the least competent and ready of all the top 18 QB’s.  He’s really a raw talent almost makes we wonder if he’ll ever develop.

 

McBeane will have a short tenure in Buffalo, just watch.

[BobbyC81]

13 hours ago, fridge said:

 

I believe we gave EJ 10 games. For the record he was never as bad as Allen.

 

Excuse me.  EJ would stare down an open receiver 5 yards away, rooster his arm, wait and then throw it into the ground.  He was horrible. I see a lot more potential in Allen than I ever saw in EJ.

[row_33]

When the Bills set up with an illegal man on the line three times next week, for sure it will be Allan completions of 12, 45 and 60 yards, all coming back

 

 

[fridge]

7 hours ago, LittleJoeCartwright said:

 

Excuse me.  EJ would stare down an open receiver 5 yards away, rooster his arm, wait and then throw it into the ground.  He was horrible. I see a lot more potential in Allen than I ever saw in EJ.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more.  EJ had his faults, he probably belongs where he is, but 5 games into his career I was a lot more excited for EJ.  He made some clutch plays, just like Allen, but never had back-to-back 80 yard passing games.

[BigDingus]

On 10/14/2018 at 4:35 PM, John from Riverside said:

Or maybe your just a dingus and dont know what your talking about

 

Clever!

I think if you went back through the threads I posted, you'd see I definitely know what I'm talking about.

[John from Riverside]

22 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Clever!

I think if you went back through the threads I posted, you'd see I definitely know what I'm talking about.

I am pretty sure I wont think that

[DuckyBoys]

First of all he was the least ready of the 4 rookie qbs to start right away. People keep comparing his stats to Mayfield/Darnold/Rosen  which is ridiculous right now.  He isn't as NFL ready as those guys but given some time to work on his craft has the potential to be the best pro of them all. He was drafted because he has the highest ceiling of the four.  Not for what he is day 1 coming in. He looks exactly as advertised except the inaccuracy thing was way overblown.  You guys B word for a decade to draft a qb in the top of the first round but dont want to give it even a few games before complaining.  Its ridiculous  You dont like it go be a Cardinals fan or root for Mahomes

[billsfan_34]

On 10/14/2018 at 4:07 PM, peterpan said:

He has so much to develop it's just so unlikely.  If it were possible you'd think it would have happened by now.  Like in college or something.....

There was a throw in the Houston game that has made me reevaluate my postion on Allen. It was a slant across the middle, receiver open, no pressure, ball thrown in the dirt 3-5 yards short of the receiver. For a tall QB probably one of the easiest throws to make. His long ball has been way way off the mark as well. If he cant get his accuracy fixed then I am afraid we will have missed on another first round QB.

Edited October 17, 2018 by billsfan_34

[Dablitzkrieg]

He got him in and out of the huddle well guys, he's good!

[Fred Clause]

34 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

There was a throw in the Houston game that has made me reevaluate my postion on Allen. It was a slant across the middle, receiver open, no pressure, ball thrown in the dirt 3-5 yards short of the receiver. For a tall QB probably one of the easiest throws to make. His long ball has been way way off the mark as well. If he cant get his accuracy fixed then I am afraid we will have missed on another first round QB.

That was his first throw of the game , he was on target after that, stop being stupid...

[billsfan_34]

Just now, Fred Clause said:

That was his first throw of the game , he was on target after that, stop being stupid...

All QBs are now allowed to have a poor first throw. And no, sorry, but he had many throws off the mark. 

[Fred Clause]

2 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

All QBs are now allowed to have a poor first throw. And no, sorry, but he had many throws off the mark. 

Not in that game.. now you're making things up. 

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

All QBs are now allowed to have a poor first throw. And no, sorry, but he had many throws off the mark. 

 

From Houston? Name 'em. I thought he was much better. 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

All QBs are now allowed to have a poor first throw. And no, sorry, but he had many throws off the mark. 

Nope.  I actually went back and looked at each pass play in the first half.  Other than the first one he either was on target or put throws where only his guy could get it 

[The_Dude]

Thing with Allen is I believe he can be good but that he never will be and that’s why he was a dumb pick. 

 

I think Allen will run out of runway before the towel is thrown in because McBeane planned this thing so freaking poorly that they’re playing him before he’s ready. McBeane’s dumbasses are gonna get canned because of how atrociously they butchered this. 

 

Nobodys forgetting McDermott processed Mahomes to Kansas City. 

 

Then, gambling on a risky pick when a safer option was on the board — those are the moves that get guys canned. 

 

You dont draft Josh Allen unless you Pittsburgh, or LAC....and if ya do it, when you’re Buffalo, ya gotta have a better plan than ‘last girl to get asked to the dance’ in free agency, and the 5th round pick from the year before with a popgun arm, and fearless recklessness. 

 

And my god with, McDermott, I get it — he’s a defensive guy. That said, if ya wanna impress me, bolster your weakness with the talent when building and use your coaching/scheming ability to make the most out of the defense....but dude went balls to the wall on D, and left any/every QB on this team exposed. None of the 3 QBs when camp opened were solid ideas. And McDermott decided to surround those dudes with no help because he wanted to spend on defense? 

 

I cant believe he didn’t use one of the first two picks following Allen to get Allen a weapon. 

 

This is bad bad planning on McDermott and I think it causes Allen issues, and I think pressure mounts, and if McBeane get canned it may be a concession to the new coach that he doesn’t have to take Allen, and Allen gets released, and his career suffers, maybe flatlines. 

 

McDermotr’s offensive plan has been so idiotic from the get go. Which is another reason that makes me believe Allen’s screwed anyways, because Allen probably doesn’t have the coaches he needs around him. I could be wrong. Daboll could be great....it could all just be Allen starting too soon, or his just not being good. I don’t know. 

 

But I think McDermotts idiotic process has doomed him and Josh Allen to failure. 

 

We’ll see. Josh Allen will needa get good, real quick. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Just watched the game over again (offense). It further confirmed my initial thought that Allen played much better than the stats showed.

 

The Watt sack was bad - 100% his fault. Two or three misfires (first pass attempt to Clay and deep throw on first possession down left sideline to Benjamin) as all quarterbacks have. He still has an issue of not trusting what he sees and holding the ball too long rather than just rocking-and-firing.

 

But a bigger problem this game was conservative play-calling and receivers not being talented enough to get YAC and/or make plays on the ball down the field. 

 

The bomb down the field that was called back thanks to Captain Dimarco was a thing of beauty. There aren't many quarterbacks able to juke JJ Watt out of his shoes and get away from him then throw a completion 40+ yards on the field on the run.

 

Allen was pretty streaky in college so I really would've liked to have seen how he did after that beautiful completion to Benjamin. Maybe the light went on and he finally decided to let 'er rip. But we'll never know.

 

Here's hoping The Franchise is healthy enough to play at home against the Bears.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Wayne Arnold

[Scott7975]

I don't know how Allen will turn out.  He has been lackluster thus far IMO, but he doesn't have much help either.  Everywhere you see rookie QBs do well they have help around them most of the time.  I am also not so sure that Daboll isn't a problem.  Looking through his history the guy as an OC has never had an offense better than 20th.  32nd, 29th, 24th, and 20th are his offensive rankings as an OC.

[Dadonkadonk]

 

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Nope.  I actually went back and looked at each pass play in the first half.  Other than the first one he either was on target or put throws where only his guy could get it 

Stop arguing facts with these guys. Its hopeless. The fact is he had two off target passes. His first attempt and his last pass after the injury. The kid has played less than a handful of games and they are already deciding his fate. These same people would have given up on Goff.