Allen not showing progress

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

You don’t see a guy who is about to wind up to throw and then tucks  and runs or takes a sack? I see it all the !@#$ing time. I have seen it less the past 2 weeks because we haven’t been passing as much. But it is pretty routine.

 

I see a guy who only looks for his #1 receiver, and if they're not open he panics and tries to run.

 

On 3rd downs, he barely looks at his primary read. You can tell before the ball is snapped that Allen is only thinking about running. There's no effort being made to try and read the defense when it's 3rd and less than 7 yards to go and we call a pass play.

 

We're averaging 123 yards passing per game for a reason. Our QB is totally lost out there. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by jrober38

[row_33]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't see any hesitation.

 

I see a guy who isn't even trying to read the defense. He looks like a complete deer in the headlights out there. The game is way too fast for him and his instinct is to just bail out of the pocket and run because that's what worked for him in college. 

 

Gotta learn how to play against men

 

bailing is a college child’s trick

 

the men in the nfL will knock your block off eventually if you keep running in chaos

 

[JoPar_v2]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Sorry your crusade has you all worked up. 

 

Have some patience with Allen and things will start to happen.  

Again maybe you need to look that word up too - I am not crusading for anything. I don’t want him benched; I didn’t say drafting him was a mistake. I think you maybe read way too much into what I said. I have patience with regards to Allen and I hope you’re right. 

 

The whole thread was about Allen’s progression, up to this point. That’s all I was commenting on.

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I see a guy who only looks for his #1 receiver, and if they're not open he panics and tries to run.

 

On 3rd downs, he barely looks at his primary read. You can tell before the ball is snapped that Allen is only thinking about running. There's no effort being made to try and read the defense.

 

We're averaging 123 yards passing per game for a reason. Our QB is totally lost out there. 

 

Really? How can you tell? Do you have special mind powers to go along with your complete lack of patience and football knowledge? jesus. 

[JoPar_v2]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

We're just holding you accountable.

Thanks grandpa I’ve been thoroughly cowed. Have another one.

[BananaB]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I see a guy who only looks for his #1 receiver, and if they're not open he panics and tries to run.

 

On 3rd downs, he barely looks at his primary read. You can tell before the ball is snapped that Allen is only thinking about running. There's no effort being made to try and read the defense.

 

We're averaging 123 yards passing per game for a reason. Our QB is totally lost out there. 

 

Panic is gonna happen when ya hesitate, especially when you are still learning

[Fixxxer]

12 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

Allen is hesitating. Play to play it could be for different reasons. Peterman makes quick decisions and because of it he throws a shitload of INTs.... Pick your poison I guess. You could see that pick 6 coming from a mile away. 

 

That's the key, we as fan don't know what transpired on any given play. Maybe in one play the guy gets open but the OL doesn't hold, sometimes the OL gives the guy time and there's nobody open. Sometimes Allen bails too quickly on the play. 

We need to be patient, as I said earlier, Allen's progression won't be pretty. 

[jrober38]

Just now, BananaB said:

 

Panic is gonna happen when ya hesitate, especially when you are still learning

 

I haven't seen any signs of learning.

 

If anything Allen's pocket awareness and itch to run at the first sign of pressure has been getting worse. 

 

As the thread title states, Allen hasn't shown any progress. 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I haven't seen any signs of learning.

 

If anything Allen's pocket awareness and itch to run at the first sign of pressure has been getting worse. 

 

As the thread title states, Allen hasn't shown any progress. 

 

Lofton pointed out how Allen totally lost his focus on his targets at the first sign of pressure 

 

gotta learn this game if you want to play it well...

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, BananaB said:

 

Panic is gonna happen when ya hesitate, especially when you are still learning

 

Nah, apparently there is no learning in the NFL. A quarterback is as good as he'll ever be on Day 1.

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I haven't seen any signs of learning.

 

If anything Allen's pocket awareness and itch to run at the first sign of pressure has been getting worse. 

 

As the thread title states, Allen hasn't shown any progress. 

 

Everybody thought Trunisky and Goff were garbage after their first years, i’m sure you were one of them. If they don’t start out fast their career is over right?

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

Lofton pointed out how Allen totally lost his focus on his targets at the first sign of pressure 

 

gotta learn this game if you want to play it well...

 

I usually like Lofton, sort of. At least I give him the benefit of the doubt. He was awful as an analyst all game today. Remarkably consistent in fact. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

Lofton pointed out how Allen totally lost his focus on his targets at the first sign of pressure 

 

gotta learn this game if you want to play it well...

 

 

Whenever they show replays of Allen in the pocket, I find he's usually not looking down field.

 

He's usually looking at the defenders around him, or trying to find the LB he needs to outrun for a first down.

 

As soon as there's any pressure or his #1 guy isn't open, Allen's eyes drop. That's a really bad trait for a QB to have. 

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Fixxxer said:

 

That's the key, we as fan don't know what transpired on any given play. Maybe in one play the guy gets open but the OL doesn't hold, sometimes the OL gives the guy time and there's nobody open. Sometimes Allen bails too quickly on the play. 

We need to be patient, as I said earlier, Allen's progression won't be pretty. 

 

Its gonna be a hike with him, he really should not be starting right now. But he is so we gotta be patient 

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

I haven't seen any signs of learning.

 

Amazing that you're able to read minds.

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Whenever they show replays of Allen in the pocket, I find he's usually not looking down field.

 

He's usually looking at the defenders around him, or trying to find the LB he needs to outrun for a first down.

 

As soon as there's any pressure or his #1 guy isn't open, Allen's eyes drop. That's a really bad trait for a QB to have. 

 

Based on your ridiculously hyperbolic descriptions of Allen, it's miraculous that he makes any completions at all.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

 

Everybody thought Trunisky and Goff were garbage after their first years, i’m sure you were one of them. If they don’t start out fast their career is over right?

 

For every guy like Goff who got significantly better after year 1, there are at least 5 guys who didn't get better and went on to be complete busts. 

 

Allen might be Goff, or he might be EJ Manuel, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, JP Losman, Josh Freeman, Paxton Lynch, Blaine Gabbert, Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, Johnny Manziel, Jake Locker, Christian Hackenberg, Geno Smith, Jimmy Clausen, Brian Brohm, etc, etc, etc. 

 

Most QBs don't work out. The vast majority of QBs who were terrible year 1 don't go on to be successful franchise players. 

[TheElectricCompany]

Can we run a Tim Tebow offense for Josh?  

Not many options when you have a terribly inaccurate, one read scrambler back there. 

Maybe we'll finish #1 in rushing, #32 in passing like the Broncos! 

 

And can we please stop comparing everyone to Goff and Trubisky? Keep in mind the massive turnaround those teams had. Can we pickup Khalil Mack?  How about a MVP RB like Gurley? 3 great receivers like the Rams have (well, we had one of them) ? Those QBs took a big leap on their own, but the team around them is going to be very challenging to establish for Allen. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, billspro said:

 

EJ and Losman both showed some flashes as rookies. I haven’t seen any flashes from Allen yet, which is concerning because those other QBs were both busts.

I think EJ will become legendary somehow lol. He wasnt as bad as most people thought. I wont compare him and Allen yet, HOWEVER I did think of EJ after reading the scouting report. STRONG arm big and big hands accuracy issues. A raw project. We weren't patient with EJ and we are not being patient either Allen. We have to be better. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

Allen looks exactly as advertised on the scouting reports.

 

He looks like a guy who should have been picked in the 4th or 5th round who would compete for a roster spot. 

 

He looks completely outmatched out there. There's been no progress since the Bengals preseason game. 

 

You are absolutely wrong.....but that is nothing new for you

[Success]

13 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I haven't seen any signs of learning.

 

If anything Allen's pocket awareness and itch to run at the first sign of pressure has been getting worse. 

 

As the thread title states, Allen hasn't shown any progress. 

You’re talking like he’s halfway through his 3rd season.

 

Glad you bailed on the “many had him as a 4th rounder” thing though.

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, Iamkrgr said:

Poor talent around him. Poor throws on his part. How many times have we seen an easy throw at the receivers feet? He is far too inaccurate. 

 

Allen wouldn't have been able to make that TD pass today. 

I told my girlfriend we dont win today without Peterman and we dont lose without peterman. I'm going loopy

Edited October 15, 2018 by Agent 91

[jrober38]

Just now, Success said:

You’re talking like he’s halfway through his 3rd season.

 

Glad you bailed on the “many had him as a 4th rounder” thing though.

 

Every advanced scouting report that analyzed data and ignored the fact that he's 6'5, 240 said he should be nothing more than a developmental mid to late round pick.

 

So far Allen has looked as advertised, and is far and away the worst starting QB in the league right now.

[Success]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Every advanced scouting report that analyzed data and ignored the fact that he's 6'5, 240 said he should be nothing more than a developmental mid to late round pick.

 

So far Allen has looked as advertised, and is far and away the worst starting QB in the league right now.

That simply isn’t true.

[bouds]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

For every guy like Goff who got significantly better after year 1, there are at least 5 guys who didn't get better and went on to be complete busts. 

 

Allen might be Goff, or he might be EJ Manuel, Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, JP Losman, Josh Freeman, Paxton Lynch, Blaine Gabbert, Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, Johnny Manziel, Jake Locker, Christian Hackenberg, Geno Smith, Jimmy Clausen, Brian Brohm, etc, etc, etc. 

 

Most QBs don't work out. The vast majority of QBs who were terrible year 1 don't go on to be successful franchise players. 

Everyone always likes to point out the outlier, when they don’t want to believe the most likely outcome/event is much more probable.  Humans tend to be overconfident in that way, the event that will benefit them is much more likely to happen in their minds even though probability suggests otherwise.  Can it happen, yeah it can.  Is it likely, no.

Edited October 15, 2018 by bouds

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Give Allen a Lee Evans and lets talk later. 

Let's give him a Goodwin or Watkins. What about John Ross. Teams will start to figure out we only have straight line burners. We need our qb to be able to use real wrs. 

[jrober38]

Just now, Success said:

That simply isn’t true.

 

In what sense?

 

Are you saying he's not the worst starting QB in the league?

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I never did. I always said and will continue to Maintain the Bills did EJ wrong. 

 

But then again making the same development mistakes with Allen 

You get a trophy for this post

[Success]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

In what sense?

 

Are you saying he's not the worst starting QB in the league?

What do you mean “in what sense?”

 

In the sense that “every major scouting report” didn’t have him as a late rounder.  I don’t think even one did.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, targetweight said:

Allen's biggest strength is his ability to throw the ball down the field. He has the potential to be better than anyone in the NFL for 20+ yard throws. His short passing game leaves a lot to be desired and will have to improve if he wants to be an elite QB. We all knew he was a project that would take a couple years to fulfill his potential. So far, he's been about on schedule given the circumstances. Even the great Peyton Manning threw 28 int's in his first year.

 

Allen made a few phenomenal throws today. One was called back. One was for zero yards that showed ridiculous arm strength with Watt pushing him back.

 

Calling to draft another QB is crazy. If he hadn't been injured we probably win and JA is 3-1 as a starter. The most important thing is to win, not completion percentage.

 

This is how I see it to. 

 

Reading this thread I hear a lot of folks claiming he's not accurate but except for his first pass his accuracy seemed fine.  The throw across his body into the middle of the field to Shady was actually quite good.  Sure, most times this would be an ill advised pass but McCoy was wide open and ball was delivered with surprising velocity given the contortions Allen was in when he let the pass go.

 

And the problem with the short passes today wasn't Allen's accuracy it was that the Texans seemed to anticipate those plays.  They blew up a couple of screens and it was clear that they wanted to force us to throw down field. 

 

The idea that the Bills should draft another QB with their 1st round pick next year is insane.  Such a move would set the franchise back years. 

 

 

[jrober38]

Just now, Success said:

What do you mean “in what sense?”

 

In the sense that “every major scouting report” didn’t have him as a late rounder.  I don’t think even one did.

 

All the reports that looked at just the data said he was a terrible prospect.

 

Traditional scouts liked him, but they're wrong all the time. 

[Lfod]

I never wanted Josh Allen to start this season. I always said that the team had no foundation for a rookie QB to succeed. What I mean by foundation is having successful offense before you install rookie QB.

 

It was my position on the subject. I just don't think Josh Allen can develop or be successful in that environment. Now he is dinged up and that only leads me to believe in the potential of more injury.

 

So I don't want to talk his development. He survived and has 2 wins and can make athletic plays. I would like to see him come into a far better situation before I judge. This offense is so bad that I don't think Tom Brady makes it work. I'm serious. The offense is holding the team back. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Lfod

[Success]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

All the reports that looked at just the data said he was a terrible prospect.

 

Traditional scouts liked him, but they're wrong all the time. 

And again - simply not true.

[Matt_In_NH]

Definitely not showing alot right now.  Definitely a lesson that arm strength means nothing in and of itself....like more qualities it takes to be a great QB.    You need a whole bunch of skills, not one or two.   Right now he is who we got so the way I see it, give him every opportunity to learn and grow.  If he busts out, get another one and take another swing.  Dont stop til you get a great QB

[TheElectricCompany]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

All the reports that looked at just the data said he was a terrible prospect.

 

Traditional scouts liked him, but they're wrong all the time. 

 

Every statistical model was down on Josh, that bit is indisputable, but I don't recall seeing any reputable site saying he was that bad. 

The worst I saw was that he graded as a 2nd rounder.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And the problem with the short passes today wasn't Allen's accuracy it was that the Texans seemed to anticipate those plays.  They blew up a couple of screens and it was clear that they wanted to force us to throw down field. 

 

Exactly. And when we started throwing downfield Allen was getting into a groove. Then he got injured. I don't know how anyone watches today's game with any kind of prediction about his future. He is still adjusting to NFL game speed and that adjustment will come with ups and downs. We'll have a much better idea of where he is at at the end of the season. Right now it's anybody's guess.

[Agent 91]

3 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

If he was going to develop and progress, he would have got better as his college career went on. The guy should have never been drafted. He lacks what it takes to be good in today's NFL. 

Might want to slow down or change your screen name.

[george c]

He is either not allowed, or not capable of making the same passes his draft partners are making every Sunday. Not encouraged yet. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I wouldn’t even be upset if this kid was making dumb decisions and going through a learning curve in the nfl. I wouldn’t mind if the reason our offense was struggling was because of rookie mistakes. This kid sucks at throwing the ball near the players on his own team. You aren’t going to learn that. He is not good at passing footballs. What are we learning? It’s just insane to me that people think this has been anything except terrible. Allen should have been redshirted for the entire season. The guy is nowhere near ready to play mentally and physically he has shown nothing to be excited about. People just want him to be good so they ignore what’s right infront of their eyes...the kid sucks right now. It really is that simple.

[OldTimer1960]

3 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Every statistical model was down on Josh, that bit is indisputable, but I don't recall seeing any reputable site saying he was that bad. 

The worst I saw was that he graded as a 2nd rounder.  

Statistics without context are garbage.  The basis of statistics is having a sound sample of data.   Mixing data from incomparable data sets is never right.

[cgg716]

30 years on this planet. I’ve seen 8 all time great transcendent QB

Aikman

Young

Favre

Roelisthberger

Manning

Brady

Brees

Rodgers

 

Half those guys struggled plenty around poor teams early, judgements off of that are why Brees became a Saint. You need time and teamattes, Wait until Allen gets those things