Tyrod Taylor finally unleashed in a "competent offense with weapons."

[DrDawkinstein]

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

As bad as Tyrod was, he wasn’t close to the tire fire Peterman has been. As bad as Tyrod can be, he’s actually had positive moments in the nfl.  NP hasn’t made it out of a half in 3 starts!

They both are not starting quarterbacks in the NFL.

The last ditch argument 'well he isn't as bad as....'  Tyrod showed exactly what he is capable of last night.  Tyrod also showed that maybe his skill set is diminishing due to age. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

There were that many in the cot?

I said left.     There were many more

 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Ouch. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is why freaking out either way for these QBs is stupid.  The true test is after 8 games or a season when they have tape on their weaknesses.  It’s how Vick would look great for 8 games and defenses would adjust.

 

Or alex smith in KC 

or fitz in Chan’s system

 

and so on.

 

Youre exactly right. Once you have about 30 or 40 professional defensive coaches studying all of your plays decisions and tendencies for 40 or 50 hours, that’s when you will start to learn how good these guys can be. 

 

I watched the condensed game from last night, jets weren’t even close to bringing the same pressure on Baker as they did on TT. I assume they weren’t sure  if baker would make the reads quickly and get ball quick to beat them.  Lotta soft zone and 4 man pressure.  quick release. Looked like he only beat pressure once. Pocket presence isn’t nearly as good as Allen’s. That one Seam pass was his best of the night and one I hope Allen can routinely make. Imo His best drive throwing at the end of second quarter was vs soft cover 2 sticks zone. 

 

Other notes:

 

Carlos Hyde is still a stud... 

Dear god that Calloway has rookie Zay hands... 

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I said left.     There were many more

 

 

I didn't think there were that many to begin with

[MAJBobby]

Yep Schopp in full defend Taylor mode 

[Malazan]

4 hours ago, cd1 said:

 

IDK - The perfect "backup and mentor" would be someone who accepts that they are not Franchise material and grateful they have something of value to help the team.

 

Taylor may end up with a big bug up his ass and ask to be traded to a team that would appreciate him as a STARTING QB.  

 

Just maybe...

 

I'm sure there's a high school tea out there somewhere who appreciates his ball security

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I didn't think there were that many to begin with

O there were plenty season two. 

 

But slowly 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

Never underestimate the stupidity that Hugh brings to the table. 

Hue at his presser next week:

 

"We noticed the spark a new QB brought to the offense so we will be moving on from starting Tyrod Taylor.  I'm going to start Drew Staton. He's a vet and good leader and we look to him to provide that spark. Baker played well, but he's just not ready."

Edited September 21, 2018 by No Place To Hyde

[downunderbill]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is why freaking out either way for these QBs is stupid.  The true test is after 8 games or a season when they have tape on their weaknesses.  It’s how Vick would look great for 8 games and defenses would adjust.

 

We'll depends on who you talk to here, might be 8 games for some, 1.5 for others. 

[#34fan]

7 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Hue at his presser next week:

 

"We noticed the spark a new QB brought to the offense so we will be moving on from starting Tyrod Taylor.  I'm going to start Drew Staton. He's a vet and good leader and we look to him to provide that spark. Baker played well, but he's just not ready."

 

I always liked Drew Stanton... Way back from his Sparty days...  Smartest move by Hue since benching Tyrod.

[Rob's House]

I predict Mayfield will be the next Drew Brees, he'll turn the franchise around, and Hue Jackoff will be declared a genius.

[GreggTX]

He doesn't have any good receivers besides Landry and I'm guessing Landry is not well liked by his teamates.

[atlbillsfan1975]

A rookie came in with the exact same team and produced. If that doesn’t make people see the truth nothing will. Tyrod just is not a franchise quarterback in this league. If a team dois any have one of those they need to find one. The Bills and Browns believe they have.  

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

O there were plenty season two. 

 

But slowly 

 

Or when people leave the Bills fans who previously defend them to the hilt suddenly say "not good enough... the guy who will really make us great is this next new guy we have". And rinse. And repeat. 

[mannc]

17 hours ago, papazoid said:

 

If anyone knows how to spoil a victory party, it's Browns coach Hue Jackson.  

 

Hue Jackson won't commit to Baker Mayfield as starting QB despite Browns' wild win

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/hue-jackson-wont-commit-to-baker-mayfield-as-starting-qb-despite-browns-wild-win/

I believe Hue Jackson is uncomfortable winning football games. It’s not part of his plan and it seems to throw him off kilter.  He does not know how to react.  What a clown.

[Teddy KGB]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

He doesn't have any good receivers besides Landry and I'm guessing Landry is not well liked by his teamates.

 

They all looked pretty good once Tyrod was replaced.  

 

Callaway, Landry, Higgins, Njoku, all get open.   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Or when people leave the Bills fans who previously defend them to the hilt suddenly say "not good enough... the guy who will really make us great is this next new guy we have". And rinse. And repeat. 

That too happens.   They move their passion to the next guy. 

 

I want to give a guy an opportunity to prove himself in the NFL over time and not immediately call him a failure.  

 

Even with our arguments we can get along with each other and respect one another. 

 

The strong dislike for someone one because they don’t like your guy happens here unfortunately.  

[HOUSE]

 

TYROD UNLEASHED  with

"competent offense with weapons."

Edited September 22, 2018 by THE SLAMMER

[billsfan_34]

19 yards- yeah he was “unleashed”. Lets all move on from TT and be glad we got a 3rd for him.

[DrDawkinstein]

From off the leash to BACK IN THE DOGHOUSE in a matter or 3 games. Tyrod is Tyrod.

[eball]

The only thing I'll contribute to this thread is that we should all be congratulating Brandon Beane for turning Tyrod into pick #63.  That, my friends, was highway robbery.

[cle23]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

They all looked pretty good once Tyrod was replaced.  

 

Callaway, Landry, Higgins, Njoku, all get open.   

Callaway will be if he stays clean. Njoku has potential but can't catch.

[Rocbillsfan1]

I bet there’s some posters here who still think well if he was in Tampa he’d be doing way better than fitz lol. I was literally having this argument with people the last couple of weeks about how tyrod was so much better than fitz. Talk about having to eat crow now. One is on his way to the playoffs and stealing the young franchise qbs job and another payday another one is on his way to never having a starting gig ever again lol. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Rocbillsfan1

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, eball said:

The only thing I'll contribute to this thread is that we should all be congratulating Brandon Beane for turning Tyrod into pick #63.  That, my friends, was highway robbery.

CORRECT.  Trash for the first pick in the third round is outrageous.  Beane's best move to date.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, eball said:

The only thing I'll contribute to this thread is that we should all be congratulating Brandon Beane for turning Tyrod into pick #63.  That, my friends, was highway robbery.

 

...wonder if he'll take his probable benching in Cleveland as well as he did in Buffalo (raging debate of benching versus risking injury)??.........pretty sure he thought of himself as still being starter material....stay tuned..............

[Tcali]

3 hours ago, eball said:

The only thing I'll contribute to this thread is that we should all be congratulating Brandon Beane for turning Tyrod into pick #63.  That, my friends, was highway robbery.

gotta give credit where credit is due--even though most sane people realize that TT cant play QB--unless u set up a complete college offense for him where he is essentially a RB who throws once in a blue moon.

baker mayfield--the best QB in the draft and the only one without any real weaknesses.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....good guy...good teammate.....great ethic and competitor......8th season at this level, but like so many others, struggles with the speed and complexity of the NFL game.......reads and progressions continue to be a stumbling block.....a gamer who tries to overcome that weakness principally with his wheels, but it continues to plague him....no harm no foul here.........it is one helluva difficult task to master.......

Edited September 22, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, Rob's House said:

I predict Mayfield will be the next Drew Brees, he'll turn the franchise around, and Hue Jackoff will be declared a genius.

 

Are you predicting Brees in San Diego, or Brees in N'Orleans?

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....good guy...good teammate.....great ethic and competitor......8th season at this level, but like so many others, struggles with the speed and complexity of the NFL game.......reads and progressions continue to be a stumbling block.....a gamer who tries to overcome that weakness principally with his wheels, but it continues to plague him....no harm no foul here.........it is one helluva difficult task to master.......

For me I just got tired of hearing how 'underrated' he was, and how the statistic models loved him. Honestly...I probably would have been more accepting of Taylor if people didn't keep trying to make his game out to be something other than what was pretty clear to see every Sunday. That got old quick. 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

For me I just got tired of hearing how 'underrated' he was, and how the statistic models loved him. Honestly...I probably would have been more accepting of Taylor if people didn't keep trying to make his game out to be something other than what was pretty clear to see every Sunday. That got old quick. 

 

 

..think you're dead on...most wanted him to succeed...only a POS would hope a kid fails in fulfilling his lifelong dream of being an NFL player, let alone a QB.....quoted him many times but here goes again...Steve Young (yup...HIM) said eloquently, "more collegians fail versus succeed at the NFL level due to the speed and complexity of the game"....so we should trash Tyrod for being unfortunately in Young's majority, despite being a good teammate with a great work ethic and competitive nature because he fell short?...WRONG answer IMO....

[stinky finger]

On 9/21/2018 at 11:12 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

As bad as Tyrod was, he wasn’t close to the tire fire Peterman has been. As bad as Tyrod can be, he’s actually had positive moments in the nfl.  NP hasn’t made it out of a half in 3 starts!

 

This^

 

In short, TT sucks......just not as bad.

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

For me I just got tired of hearing how 'underrated' he was, and how the statistic models loved him. Honestly...I probably would have been more accepting of Taylor if people didn't keep trying to make his game out to be something other than what was pretty clear to see every Sunday. That got old quick. 

 

 

And threads like this aren't old?

[Teddy KGB]

22 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

And threads like this aren't old?

 

You telling us Tyrod is good got old 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

The thing too is ESPN/NFL Network, etc all show the TT highlights and you say how can the Bills get rid of him, a playoff QB even.  But they don't show the highlights of his was it around 100 yard performance against the Panthers, Saints and Jet's last year?

[BringBackOrton]

WHY DID WE TRADE TYROD?  WE NEED HIM OUT THERE.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

WHY DID WE TRADE TYROD?  WE NEED HIM OUT THERE.

 

...Allen had 120 yds passing in the 1ST QUARTER....wouldn't THAT be a "two game set" yesteryear??...............

[BringBackOrton]

23 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...Allen had 120 yds passing in the 1ST QUARTER....wouldn't THAT be a "two game set" yesteryear??...............

Mahomes will outproduce TT's 2017 season in TD's by the end of today.

[Tyrod's friend]

On 9/19/2018 at 10:57 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, man.  Quote-in-quote makes it  a PITA to reply, so I'll just go to the one point I should clarify.

 

One of my stats geekeries has been looking for objective, easy to calculate stats that correlate with both QB quality and with winning - I hate that total QBR thing and PFF's subjective unexplained rating system.  I came up with 3, of which passing yards is not one.  You can search and find arguments I have where I take the position that passing yards are not a good QB quality metric.  (The things folks say to me! Heh heh. )

 

Then I started using those 3 stats to look at all the QB drafted from 2006-2016.  Sorting them by these 3 statspretty much it worked - the QB my stats tagged as "successful NFL QB" would,  I think, find a lot of agreement.  They excluded a couple guys maybe people would say "he's a good QB" cuz, "heard of him" or "won a Superbowl" but when you look at the guy's whole career, the argument is pretty strong that in fact, maybe not so good.

 

Well, I noticed a funny thing after that.  I was pulling in a few QB that few would agree were good QB.  Hmmm.  The commonality was that all these guys had pretty low yards per game - 200-ish or less.

 

So then I went back and started looking at passing yards and winning again.  I haven't finished, but I'm coming to the conclusion that while more isn't better, there may be a floor of passing yards per game, below which winning is less likely, especially during playoff games.  I'm not sure where it is, precisely - between 200 and 230 yds somewhere.

 

Blahblahblah long winded way to say I think you're not reading what I wrote carefully enough.  While overall, I'd agree that passing yards don't mean too much, I can't agree that they don't mean anything.  If a QB is on average, generating <220 ypg passing offense, I think the team is less likely to win playoff games and somewhat less likely to win overall.

Agree disagree, whatevs, if you want to "reject completely" that notion I think you're rejecting some sturdy data, but I've been busy with other stuff and haven't rolled it up.

 

Bridgewater was effective in 2015 for the Vikes, sure, but not on a top-tier level.

 

There are exceptions and outliers, and that's pretty much by definition what the guys who lead the NFL's career completion list are by definition.  Right now we have several exceptions and outliers who have been QBing successfully for a long time in the NFL.  But the fact is, year after year, the vast majority of QB starting in the NFL are on the team that drafted them, and if you want to acquire a quality QB who can lead the franchise for years, that's pretty much where teams have to go.  They better not count on a re-run of 1992 where they can trade for Brett Favre, 2006 where Drew Brees hits free agency - or for that matter, 2018 where one very good QB gets traded and another hits FA.   They better not count on the long-term success of a career journeyman like Josh McCown or Ryan Fitzpatrick.   They better not count on drafting Tom Brady in the 6th or having Kurt Warner walk-on as an UDFA.  These are all rarities, not the norm.  They better draft a guy, and the highest probability of a hit is in the 1st round at the top, and even there the odds are lower than most people think.  If you disagree with that, then here's where I say we're just on a different page.

 

You spend an awful lot of time saying this method and that method can't be relied upon for getting a franchise QB, then you conclude with drafting a QB in the first round - which has ... what? a 20% success rate? Less?

I've never said it is the only way, or that you are going to find the great franchise QB that way. But there are 10, all-time franchise QBs and to me, outside of Peyton Manning nearly all of them were easily acquired elsewhere than the top 5 picks in the draft. A lot of them weren't even the first QB overall taken. I hardly think the only way is picking one up in the draft.

QBs are the result of a team, of good coaching, of a system that is built around them. Presumably the Texans had a near MVP QB there in DeShaun. Didn't look that way to me, and he was picked high in the draft. 24 starters. QB is important. It's not everything; it just seems that way when you have the recency bias of having Tom Brady bash your brains in twice a year for most of this century. 

A lot of the other stuff you wrote was pretty good.