Confirmed: Bills to start rookie QB Josh Allen vs. Chargers

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They do have that luxury. They could sign Matt Moore right now. The fact that they haven't means they think Allen is ready right now. I can't believe people are questioning the McCarron trade. He isn't much better than Peterman. It's shocking we got a 5th rounder for him and nothing he brought to this team is worth more than that.

 

I think he's better than Peterman.  It's not hyperbole to say that Peterman could be the worst starting QB in the last 20 years.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

 

 

Can someone post the Peterman hype video???

[VW82]

People seem to be having issues identifying the things Allen is doing well vs. struggling with so let's try and clarify.

 

1. Getting through his progressions. This was a big problem in his lone preseason start, which Allen even admitted. Things are going too fast for him to keep up. It's why he held the ball too long and why he gave up so many sacks in that game. You could tell he / coaching staff had made an adjustment for second half vs. Ravens by having him use an internal clock so he'd have a better idea when it was time to throw away or scramble regardless of where he was in his progressions or even how the protection was holding up. This is a fail safe for young QBs and not ideal for a number of reasons, namely that you altogether pass on potential opportunities outside of three seconds.

 

2. Pocket presence. This is closely related to the first point. The problem is Allen doesn't yet have the ability to sense where the rush is coming from while still looking down field, so he's either getting sacked waiting for someone to get open, or he's not seeing guys get open because he's looking at the oncoming rush. You'll notice on several occasions he got bumped by one of our o line (who got pushed back into the pocket because they suck!) and immediately tucked the ball and scrambled. Compare this to someone like Brady or even Ryan who sense one side of the pocket is collapsing and step up or to the side before getting nudged, all while still looking down field and completing a pass.

 

3. Accuracy. Allen was terribly inaccurate in the preseason, routinely throwing behind, in front of, over the top of, and every which direction but at our receivers. This seemed to have improved some vs. Ravens. We can talk all we want about playing vs. second stringers who weren't playing hard given the score, but he still made some impressive throws.

 

4. Touch. Everyone killed Benjamin for that dropped TD but that was at least partially on Allen. He has a tendency to throw everything 100 mph, and in that instance there was no need to gas it like that. The window wasn't that tight. We've seen him do this a bunch already over the course of preseason.

 

5. Making pre and post snap reads. Allen is clearly struggling to diagnose where the rush is coming from (let alone the coverages) and so our o line is frequently gettng overloaded, but it was frustrating to also see that missed opportunity with Shady on the RPO at the goal line. I have no idea what Allen was seeing (other than runway for Shady to the end zone) on that keep and resulting incompletion.        

 

My point is the kid is clearly still working on mastering basic fundamentals of playing QB. Let's all keep this in mind while he's being thrown to the wolves on Sunday.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[zow2]

Peterman seems to be like a great rehearsal actor who forgets his lines once the show starts.  Maybe Allen is the opposite... Let's hope when the lights come on for real, this kid is a gamer and lifts the guys around him.  We'll see.  

[reddogblitz]

Just now, VW82 said:

3. Accuracy. Allen was terribly inaccurate in the preseason, routinely throwing behind, in front of, over the top of, and every which direction but at our receivers. This seemed to have improved some vs. Ravens. We can talk all we want about playing vs. second stringers who weren't playing hard given the score, but he still made some impressive throws.

 

This is my major #1 concern.  If he isn't accurate (which he hasn't appeared to be yet), he will have a short career. Or at least a short time starting before he starts bouncing around the league ala Sunshine and Matt Cassell.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Lmao. He absolutely is better than Peterman. 

 

Yes that's why I said "not much better" than Peterman. He looked just as bad in preseason game 4 to be fair. But either way the 5th round pick we got for him is worth more than him being on the roster. If we want a vet QB there are still a few out there. It makes no difference if it's Matt Moore or Derek Anderson or whoever.

[VW82]

13 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is my major #1 concern.  If he isn't accurate (which he hasn't appeared to be yet), he will have a short career. Or at least a short time starting before he starts bouncing around the league ala Sunshine and Matt Cassell.

 

I agree. I can't think of too many QBs who came into the league with accuracy issues and went on to become franchise guys. Most successful ones of that ilk get it done with their legs.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[John from Riverside]

Some of these things in Allens game that need to be worked on are the same things ALL ROOKIE starters need to work on......its absolutely no different.

 

Just think about this.....he now gets like 90 percent of the snaps in practice.....90 percent of the coaching......

 

I am excited to see what we will have by the end of the year

[RaoulDuke79]

I wish I knew what McDermott saw in Peterman that he started him the first game instead of Allen, unless he was trying to protect Allen from getting killed. And if that's the case why get Allen killed now?

[Kelly the Dog]

23 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I totally agree with this. I've seen so many good prospects at QB go to bad teams and get ruined due to bad lines, bad coaching, bad teams. While it is true that some are simply bad to start with it's also a fact that some can be great and never get that chance because they get drafted by a bad team.   

 

Just look at Steve Young and his two years at Tampa Bay. The 1986 Bucs Young went 2-12, 8 TDs, 13 INTs with a completion percentage of 53.7. If left on that bad team Young would have never amounted to anything. 

It also showed you could start a rookie, he can get crushed for two years and not lose his body or brain or confidence or career 

[wppete]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Can someone post the Peterman hype video???

 

It has been taken down to never be seen again. 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, VW82 said:

4. Touch. Everyone killed Benjamin for that dropped TD but that was at least partially on Allen. He has a tendency to throw everything 100 mph, and in that instance there was no need to gas it like that. The window wasn't that tight. We've seen him do this a bunch already over the course of preseason.

 

Nope

[jrober38]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They do have that luxury. They could sign Matt Moore right now. The fact that they haven't means they think Allen is ready right now. I can't believe people are questioning the McCarron trade. He isn't much better than Peterman. It's shocking we got a 5th rounder for him and nothing he brought to this team is worth more than that.

 

No self respecting veteran QB is signing with us as a realistic option to start for at least 3-4 weeks. 

 

We took a risk only keeping two QBs on the roster, with a combined 2 professional starts under their belt and it appears to have backfired. 

[VW82]

8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It also showed you could start a rookie, he can get crushed for two years and not lose his body or brain or confidence or career 

 

Young started the final five games his rookie season. Steve DeBerg started the first eleven in which they were 1-10. I think everyone on this board would be ok if we waited to play Allen until the second half of the season when we're already out of it and pressure is off. 

 

Also, Steve Young took a ton of needless hits early in his career before he figured out how to play and eventually all the concussions caught up with him. Terrible example.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

No self respecting veteran QB is signing with us as a realistic option to start for at least 3-4 weeks. 

 

We took a risk only keeping two QBs on the roster, with a combined 2 professional starts under their belt and it appears to have backfired. 

 

They knew the risk. They traded McCarron because they think Allen is ready. Whether that's true or not we will find out starting this Sunday.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Young started the final five games his rookie season. Steve DeBerg started the first eleven in which they were 1-10. I think everyone on this board would be ok if we waited to play Allen until the second half of the season when we're already out of it and pressure is off. 

 

Also, Steve Young took a ton of needless hits early in his career before he figured out how to play and eventually all the concussions caught up with him. Terrible example.

Concussions caught up with him?! He played 15 seasons. 

[Heitz]

38 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Looks/Sounds to me like McD was fine rolling through "The Process" with Peterman this season and letting him "process" us all the way to the #1 overall pick, considering we're trash at OL and WR and arent going to do much anyways. And then Pegula or someone stepped in this week and told him he had to start Allen so the team didnt have to deal with a fan revolt.

 

Seems like this team is very confused as to how much it wants to "win now" and how much it wants to "trust the process".

 

New owner, same meddling?

 

So Billsy.

 

Now it's on the Pegula's!?  The speculation train never stops at TBD! ?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They knew the risk. They traded McCarron because they think Allen is ready. Whether that's true or not we will find out starting this Sunday.

 

I think whoever lost the competition between Peterman and McCarron were getting traded. 

 

Very few NFL teams keep 3 guys and we were going to be no different. I don't think Allen has much to do with anything.

 

If Allen was ready, he's have started last week. 

[DuckyBoys]

25 minutes ago, VW82 said:

People seem to be having issues identifying the things Allen is doing well vs. struggling with so let's try and clarify.

 

1. Getting through his progressions. This was a big problem in his lone preseason start, which Allen even admitted. Things are going too fast for him to keep up. It's why he held the ball too long and why he gave up so many sacks in that game. You could tell he / coaching staff had made an adjustment for second half vs. Ravens by having him use an internal clock so he'd have a better idea when it was time to throw away or scramble regardless of where he was in his progressions or even how the protection was holding up. This is a fail safe for young QBs and not ideal for a number of reasons, namely that you altogether pass on potential opportunities outside of three seconds.

 

2. Pocket presence. This is closely related to the first point. The problem is Allen doesn't yet have the ability to sense where the rush is coming from while still looking down field, so he's either getting sacked waiting for someone to get open, or he's not seeing guys get open because he's looking at the oncoming rush. You'll notice on several occasions he got bumped by one of our o line (who got pushed back into the pocket because they suck!) and immediately tucked the ball and scrambled. Compare this to someone like Brady or even Ryan who sense one side of the pocket is collapsing and step up or to the side before getting nudged, all while still looking down field and completing a pass.

 

3. Accuracy. Allen was terribly inaccurate in the preseason, routinely throwing behind, in front of, over the top of, and every which direction but at our receivers. This seemed to have improved some vs. Ravens. We can talk all we want about playing vs. second stringers who weren't playing hard given the score, but he still made some impressive throws.

 

4. Touch. Everyone killed Benjamin for that dropped TD but that was at least partially on Allen. He has a tendency to throw everything 100 mph, and in that instance there was no need to gas it like that. The window wasn't that tight. We've seen him do this a bunch already over the course of preseason.

 

5. Making pre and post snap reads. Allen is clearly struggling to diagnose where the rush is coming from (let alone the coverages) and so our o line is frequently gettng overloaded, but it was frustrating to also see that missed opportunity with Shady on the RPO at the goal line. I have no idea what Allen was seeing (other than runway for Shady to the end zone) on that keep and resulting incompletion.        

 

My point is the kid is clearly still working on mastering basic fundamentals of playing QB. Let's all keep this in mind while he's being thrown to the wolves on Sunday.

3. I disagree  For the most part he was on point even in pre season

 

4 .  Benjamin needs to catch with his hands  Yeah it was a bullet but KB tried to catch it with his gut  Your a professional football player playing WR  Go sit on the juggs machine, no excuses for body catching football

 

rest I agree with

[VW82]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They knew the risk. They traded McCarron because they think Allen is ready. Whether that's true or not we will find out starting this Sunday.

No they traded McCarron because they thought Peterman would be a decent option to keep us afloat for the first half of the year while they coached up Allen (presumably to start once Peterman and the team eventually faltered). If they thought Allen was ready he would have started week one. He's only starting now because they misjudged Peterman so badly. I wish people would stop misrepresenting the situation. It's irritating, and puts undo expectations on our rookie who needs time and patience, and for the fan base to not get its collective hope up to the point where they turn on him if/when he doesn't experience early success.   

5 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

3. I disagree  For the most part he was on point even in pre season

 

4 .  Benjamin needs to catch with his hands  Yeah it was a bullet but KB tried to catch it with his gut  Your a professional football player playing WR  Go sit on the juggs machine, no excuses for body catching football

 

rest I agree with

 

3. I mean, his completion percentage and passing yards in that game would seem to be at odds with him being on point, just sayin

 

4. I agree KB needs to catch that, and he's had several other drops throughout preseason and game one where "touch" wasn't nearly the issue. I can see why Carolina fans were so frustrated with him.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[RyanC883]

6 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

It's clear the Bills were hoping they didn't have to do this this soon but they risk the chance of losing the locker room if they put Peterman back out there. The boys clearly like Allen and play hard when he's in there. It'll force everyone to elevate their game.

  

He's gonna take so many needless sacks because his internal clock is jacked and he'll throw a bunch of picks but throw him out there and let him sink or swim.

 

not sure he will even have time to hold onto the ball too long,.  He'll be sacked well before "too long" with this O-line! 

[reddogblitz]

23 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think whoever lost the competition between Peterman and McCarron were getting traded. 

 

Very few NFL teams keep 3 guys and we were going to be no different. I don't think Allen has much to do with anything.

 

If Allen was ready, he's have started last week. 

 

Baltimore does and 1 of them they drafted n the first round this year.

 

I f there was ever a year to keep 3, it was THIS year.

Edited September 12, 2018 by reddogblitz

[CircleTheWagons99]

3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I want to believe this was the plan all along. That Beane, Mcdermott, and Daboll all knew that Allen would start due to it being a necessity. Reason i kind of think this might be the case is Tyrod being traded, AJ being traded, and only having Peterman as the 'vet'. Basically the staff and Beane made this happen. If Tyrod was still here he would be Tyrod. Do just enough to keep you around in a game but never take  a game over and win it. AJ would of had games like Tyrod did. Show he can be a competent back up and even win some games, albeit not by his doing going  for 300+ yards and 3 touchdowns. More like a serviceable starter . With Peterman looking as terrible as he did there is no way the Bills start him unless they have no choice. Like i said i want to believe this. Otherwise it means Beane, McDermott, and Daboll got fooled by Peterman in preseason. 

Give me your opinion. I am honestly looking for the other side of it. 

Fooled in preseason sounds about right. I wanted Peyerman to succed but he just sucks. 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think whoever lost the competition between Peterman and McCarron were getting traded. 

 

Very few NFL teams keep 3 guys and we were going to be no different. I don't think Allen has much to do with anything.

 

If Allen was ready, he's have started last week. 

 

Everything I know about McDermott tells me he thinks through every possible scenario. He knew Allen was one injury or bad game away from starting. If they didn't think he was ready they would have kept a 3rd QB. Peterman won the competition but he was never going to start the whole year unless he took the league by storm. I don't think they wanted to start Allen this early if they could avoid it but they aren't blowing up their plan.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

3. I disagree  For the most part he was on point even in pre season

 

4 .  Benjamin needs to catch with his hands  Yeah it was a bullet but KB tried to catch it with his gut  Your a professional football player playing WR  Go sit on the juggs machine, no excuses for body catching football

 

rest I agree with

 

A number of the young WR on our roster were body-catching footballs all preseason.  Made me wonder if they're being well coached.

[Dr.Sack]

McD has made the right move regardless of how bad Allen plays it can’t get much worse than Peterman. If they can run a simplified offense that features 60% run to 40% pass mix this could work. Where they will fail is when the OL gets stupid penalties. It’s time to let Allen play & see where he’s at.

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

McD has made the right move regardless of how bad Allen plays it can’t get much worse than Peterman. If they can run a simplified offense that features 60% run to 40% pass mix this could work. Where they will fail is when the OL gets stupid penalties. It’s time to let Allen play & see where he’s at.

 

Well you have to help your qb which they certainly did not against Baltimore.  The few decent runs McCoy had all got called back.  False starts, plus the many drops.  Whole offense was a hot mess.  Plus the penalty on the punting unit that gave the ravens a 1st down  Team cant overcome all of that right now. I think the Bills will have success running the football.   That should help a ton to keep all the weight from being on Allen.  Can't have 3rd and forever on each conversion.  We likely lose again but should be more of a game (least one can hope)

[Chandler#81]

5 hours ago, xsoldier54 said:

The plan was to ease Allen into the starting role.  They were hoping Peterman could be a placeholder until later on this season, but Allen was ALWAYS going to be the starter.  You don't trade up to number 7 to get a guy and then sit him.  Peterman looked good in training camp and in pre-season, but once again, failed miserably when it counted.  Some guys are just good practice players, but can't handle the pressure when it's game on for real.  Peterman appears to be one of those.  At this point they seem to realize that Peterman is not capable of holding down the fort.  It's really that simple IMO.  Doesn't indicate any flaws with the coaching staff.  The flaw is with Peterman.   

Exactly. Our other 1st Round Pick is starting and he was a lower if unforeseen pick. 

Play the best players. They were way too costly to sit.

[bobblehead]

51 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

3. I disagree  For the most part he was on point even in pre season

 

4 .  Benjamin needs to catch with his hands  Yeah it was a bullet but KB tried to catch it with his gut  Your a professional football player playing WR  Go sit on the juggs machine, no excuses for body catching football

 

rest I agree with

These points are well explained and rational, but to be honest #3 is just flat out wrong, sorry 

[Dkollidas]

With Daboll coming from New England, I hope hey run a lot of plays from the shotgun in order to give Allen time to read the field. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[GreggTX]

I think this qualifies as the least surprising news to come out of OBD in a long while.

[Lfod]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

If they would have stuck with Peterman there would be "fans" calling McD an idiot for being stubborn and taking a chance of losing the locker room for not playing the best player.

 

I fully expect Josh Allen to struggle.....its going to happen......but he will take the experience he gains this year into the following year and they will (IMO) revamp that offensive line and get him legit targets.........

 

Josh Allen is not gonna break...he is a strong willed kid who dealt with n OL protection/lack of targets through college....he is biult for this.   He is going to struggle and its ok

Josh is the better athlete. He has shown he can be elusive at times. I hate to say it but Josh may want to take a Tyrod approach to the game and just survive. 

 

When they pulled Peterman a second time I had a strong feeling it would lead to Allen starting. I am going to try to hype myself up and hope for the best. I want to believe. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Not looking good for this.

 

 

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Exactly. Our other 1st Round Pick is starting and he was a lower if unforeseen pick. 

Play the best players. They were way too costly to sit.

Yes.  Same reason you plug Edumnds into the Mike is why you plug Allen into the starting line up.  By mid camp it should have been obvious that Allen needed to be on the field and how to prepare him to play.  I am beginning to question Mcdermotts offensive leadership and how to create a productive offense.  

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Everything I know about McDermott tells me he thinks through every possible scenario. He knew Allen was one injury or bad game away from starting. If they didn't think he was ready they would have kept a 3rd QB. Peterman won the competition but he was never going to start the whole year unless he took the league by storm. I don't think they wanted to start Allen this early if they could avoid it but they aren't blowing up their plan.

They have appeared to be completely reactionary this year, and its a stretch to think this is some sort of expected contingency out of some elaborate planned out scenarios.  They screwed the pooch with Peterman. They accepted that and moved on. 

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Yes.  Same reason you plug Edumnds into the Mike is why you plug Allen into the starting line up.  By mid camp it should have been obvious that Allen needed to be on the field and how to prepare him to play.  I am beginning to question Mcdermotts offensive leadership and how to create a productive offense.  

Are you basing this on facts? ?

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

They have appeared to be completely reactionary this year, and its a stretch to think this is some sort of expected contingency out of some elaborate planned out scenarios.  They screwed the pooch with Peterman. They accepted that and moved on. 

Are you basing this on facts? ?

The facts ours sucked last year and so far this year? The hired, schemes, signings, draft picks and results?