Lacanfora: Bills have reached out to Raiders about Khalil Mack trade

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Teams Value cheap rookie contracts much more than they did in 1988. Mack's value is also diminished by the fact that you would be paying him a large 20 million dollar or more per year contract with a hefty guarantee. Even in the context of the Bennett trade, you were trading 3 future picks for a rookie. Mack is 27 years old and about to get paid. The Bills didn't even trade up for Bennett they drafted Shane Conlan at pick 8 then traded those 3 future selections plus Greg Bell a running back of value to get the number 2 pick outright. The Bills got the number 2 overall pick for 2 future firsts, a second rounder and a decent running back. 

 

Whereas with Mack they would be trading for a player who is older and taking up a lot of cap space.1st round picks are even more valuable now because it can lock in a player for 5 years fairly affordably. Teams are certainly willing to part with 1 first round pick and cap space for a premium player that isn't a QB but 2 first round picks and a 2nd is insane esp given the cap considerations.

 

Yes Mack is more proven than Bennett was but Bennett once again was younger and there was the same cap considerations. It would just be insane to give up those picks for anything other than a QB or a player with multiple years left on a rookie deal. 

You are correct, and the proof will be in the pudding: No team will give up two first round picks for Mack.  The Raiders will be lucky to get one.

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

6 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

Um, yes he is.  I don't get the Mario hate either.  He was badly misused when Rex came to town but before that he was a very good player.  Elite pass rushers change the entire defense.

and apparently also misused by the Dolphin coaches on his next stop after here

[OrtonHearsaWho]

2 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

and apparently also misused by the Dolphin coaches on his next stop after here

 

Actually yes - that entire D was a joke.

 

So many posters love to talk about how great our D was under Schwartz but will also say that Mario was a bum (I'm not saying that's you)...perhaps our D was very good because...I don't know...we had a great pass rusher?

[njbuff]

Raiders have very little leverage in this.

 

The longer Mack doesn't show up, the more the Raiders will get pennies on the dollar for Mack.

 

The Bills don't have to rush into this thing and give up the bank for Mack.

 

I bet a team can wait till the deadline and give up, maybe, a third round pick for him. The Raiders at the deadline know that Mack isn't re-signing there, so the Raiders have nothing.

 

Unless the value is a third round pick right now, the Bills can wait this thing out.

 

I don't think there is a team foolish enough to give up anything of significance knowing they can pursue Mack as a FA in 2019.

Edited August 24, 2018 by njbuff

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

2 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

Actually yes - that entire D was a joke.

 

So many posters love to talk about how great our D was under Schwartz but will also say that Mario was a bum (I'm not saying that's you)...perhaps our D was very good because...I don't know...we had a great pass rusher?

You're right, I'm not saying he was a bum.  I'm just concerned with the possibility of a player losing some of his fire after earning generational wealth.

[ddaryl]

14 minutes ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

Um, yes he is.  I don't get the Mario hate either.  He was badly misused when Rex came to town but before that he was a very good player.  Elite pass rushers change the entire defense.

 

No doubt, just look at Hughes 1st seasons with Buffalo. Easily his best years with us and that was because Mario was commanding double teams on the opposite side.

 

 

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

and apparently also misused by the Dolphin coaches on his next stop after here

Those Dolphin dodos also didn't really know how to utilize Wake or Suh either...

 

Rex did ruin him by asking him to play in his outdated, screwed up scheme. A premier pass rusher being asked to drop into pass coverage wasn't moronic enough so it was simply abusive to have him taking on a 300lb plus offensive tackle so the craptastic Bills linebackers could attempt to make a play. 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

6 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

You're right, I'm not saying he was a bum.  I'm just concerned with the possibility of a player losing some of his fire after earning generational wealth.

 

That's always a concern.  Heck, that's a concern for players on rookie contracts since generational wealth can be subjective.  The fact that Beane and McDermott have been pretty solid with personnel leaves me optimistic.  At worst, I think Mack is the second best D-lineman in the game and it's worth the gamble.

[KD in CA]

31 minutes ago, Heitz said:

Man, did this guy sign here yet, or what!? ??

 

Amazing how a guy everyone here worshipped suddenly turns to dog**** even at the vague suggestion he might possibly come to Buffalo.  

[ndirish1978]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes. Top 5 picks have like a 20% chance of becoming DPOY candidates. Mack has already been the DPOY and is a candidate to win it again every year. I value draft picks as much as anyone on here, but the reason you hold onto draft picks is to save cap space for players like Mack when they become available. If we have a chance to get a generational player on our team at a position of need, why give that up for a lottery ticket?

 

Look at the DEs drafted in the 1st rd in the past 4 years. Which ones would you take over Mack?

• Arik Armstead (17 - 2015)
• Shane Ray (23 - 2015)
• Joey Bosa (3-2016)
• DeForest Buckner (7 - 2016)
• Shaq Lawson (16 - 2016)
• Myles Garrett (1 - 2017)
• Derek Barnett (14 - 2017)
• Charles Harris (22 -2017)
• Taco Charlton (28 -2017)
• Bradley Chubb (5 - 2018)
• Marcus Davenport (14 - 2018)

The only 2 I would put in the conversation with Mack are Bosa and maybe Garrett and they were both top 3 picks. If we put together a typical Billsy season and win 6-9 games we'd be picking closer to the Shaw Lawson Derek Barnett range, I would take Mack over every guy picked in that range in the past couple of years. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by ndirish1978

[RPbillsfan]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Look at the DEs drafted in the 1st rd in the past 4 years. Which ones would take over Mack?

• Arik Armstead (17 - 2015)
• Shane Ray (23 - 2015)
• Joey Bosa (3-2016)
• DeForest Buckner (7 - 2016)
• Shaq Lawson (16 - 2016)
• Myles Garrett (1 - 2017)
• Derek Barnett (14 - 2017)
• Charles Harris (22 -2017)
• Taco Charlton (28 -2017)
• Bradley Chubb (5 - 2018)
• Marcus Davenport (14 - 2018)

The only 2 I would put in the conversation with Mack are Bona and maybe Garrett and they were both top 3 picks. If we put together a typical Billsy season and win 6-9 games we'd be picking closer to the Shaw Lawson Derek Barnett range, I would take Mack over every guy picked in that range in the past couple of years. 

Great list and shows why the Bills should absolutely offer the 2019 first round pick and Lawson and see what the Raiders say.

 

This represents a great opportunity for Buffalo to make a huge stride defensively and improve this year without sacrificing any part of our future that is not replaceable with our remaining picks and free agent cap space next year.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Other than the salary cap, what is different today than 1987 when it comes to acquiring such a player? If anything, pressuring the opposing QB is even more important than it was back then given the proliferation of passing offenses. And if a team has a ton of projected cap room for the next several seasons, the cap constraint issue is negligible. 

 

I'm curious to see just how silly I turn out to be given the number of teams that will be involved in the bidding process to acquire Mack. 

 

Please.

 

If you haven’t been watching the NFL for the past 31years, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

Here’s a hint.....first round picks are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more valuable than they were when there wasn’t a rookie pay scale.

 

There’s a starter for you.

[The Red King]

We play Brady twice a season...tell me again how well we've done without a decent pass rush this whole time?

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Please.

 

If you haven’t been watching the NFL for the past 31years, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

Here’s a hint.....first round picks are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more valuable than they were when there wasn’t a rookie pay scale.

 

There’s a starter for you.

Please indeed. Your condescending tone aside, I'm aware of the changes the league has undergone in the 31 years since we acquired Bennett. 

 

What, PRECISELY, is the value difference between a 27 year old All Pro at the second most critical position vs. that of a future draft pick? 

 

When you can quantify that value and answer that with certainty perhaps I'll change my position that the trade dynamics surrounding the acquisition of a premier player in his prime at the second most critical position have changed for teams whose salary cap situation doesn't prohibit such an acquisition for the next several seasons. 

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Mack is also coming off a disappointing season. I'm worried he may have already played his best ball, and may be a very good, but not top tier elite player on his second contact.

 

Eh he's the only player on that Raiders defense, teams are game planning for him and they don't have anyone else to worry about. No defensive player can do it all on their own.

[Chandler#81]

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/08/buffalo_bills_have_done_due_diligence_on_khalil_mack_report.html

 

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

We play Brady twice a season...tell me again how well we've done without a decent pass rush this whole time?

About the same as when we did have a decent pass rush.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Eh he's the only player on that Raiders defense, teams are game planning for him and they don't have anyone else to worry about. No defensive player can do it all on their own.

 

Khalil Mack is THE WHIP... FACT!

Edited August 24, 2018 by Cotton Fitzsimmons

[CEN-CAL17]

Mack wants Aaron Donald $$$, Aaron Donald wants Mack $$$...

 

Either will surpass Von Miller, but both are waiting to see. 

 

Not saying that’s 100% the reason, but that is a big part of the reason.

[AIRIKSMIND]

This team is just beginning to start a culture and system (similar to that $&@! Boston franchise ) that will soon have the ability to “plug and play” role players without selling the farm. I think McDermott is most likely foaming at the mouth at the possibility of acquiring Mack....but the process will not allow the expense. I don’t think this is being cheap...I think it’s being wise and patient. Players will want to come here...Mack has said so himself. Make an offer...make it reasonable...and don’t beg or sell the farm. Good times are just around the corner.

 

thanks for allowing me to lurk here for 10 years...lol...!! 

Edited August 24, 2018 by AIRIKSMIND
Spelling error

[Fr. Jerk]

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

Man, did this guy sign here yet, or what!? ??

Time to grind up some freezer worthy meat and pray he likes deers

[Bangarang]

16 minutes ago, The Red King said:

We play Brady twice a season...tell me again how well we've done without a decent pass rush this whole time?

 

Pretty much the same as every other time we played Brady and the Pats.

[njbuff]

So, 14 pages and counting with this thread?

[nucci]

3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

So, 14 pages and counting with this thread?

yes,  obviously

[Yav]

Honestly, wouldn't everyone expect the Bills to call on Mack? 

A call is just that a call. It comes down to a few things:

1. What do the Raiders want for compensation?

2. What does Mack want for compensation?

 

Personally, I think Hughes has warn his welcome out in Buffalo. He gets dumb penalties and he tends to disappear during long stretches not just during a game but a season as well.

 

[billykay]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

The Cooks trade actually supports my argument.

 

1.  Edge rusher is not “just below QB” in positional value.  The drop off is huge.  If qb is 10, edge is 3 or 4, even if edge is the second most valuable, which it’s not.  (That  would be WR.)

 

2.  Cooks has averaged over 1100 yds receiving the last 3 seasons.  

 

3.  Cooks turns 25 next month.  Mack turns 28 in February.  That matters.

 

4. Cooks signed a five-year extension with only $20 million guaranteed.  Mack will be looking for around $60 million guaranteed, if not more.

 

5.  You are wrong about what the Rams gave up for Cooks.  They gave up less than 23 overall.  They got Cooks and NE’s 4th round pick for 23 overall and their 6th rounder.  And at the time they made the trade, the Rams knew they were only giving up 23 overall.  The Bills would be giving up what might well be a top 10 overall pick in a draft packed with impact d-linemen and edge rushers.  Those guys will be 21-years old, and on cheap contracts through 2022.

 

6.  I think you are overestimating the number of teams seriously interested in trading for Mack.  I think it’s probably only a couple.

 

Conclusion:  The Raiders will be lucky to get someone’s 2019 first round pick for Mack, and the Bills might actually be overpaying by giving them just next year’s first.  I think Beane might get it done for a second and a player like Shaq.

 

One other conclusion:  Jon Gruden is an idiot,

The Raiders just might be interested in one of our backup QB's as part of any package.

Also, does anyone think that we would have to offer Mack more money due to the Bills being in a high tax state especially compared to Nevada ?

 

[ToGoGo]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

I think it's highly debatable if he's the best. If he is, there's a half dozen guys on his heels.

 

He's on pace to be the unquestionable best. 

[BrotherChazz]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Look at the DEs drafted in the 1st rd in the past 4 years. Which ones would you take over Mack?

• Arik Armstead (17 - 2015)
• Shane Ray (23 - 2015)
• Joey Bosa (3-2016)
• DeForest Buckner (7 - 2016)
• Shaq Lawson (16 - 2016)
• Myles Garrett (1 - 2017)
• Derek Barnett (14 - 2017)
• Charles Harris (22 -2017)
• Taco Charlton (28 -2017)
• Bradley Chubb (5 - 2018)
• Marcus Davenport (14 - 2018)

The only 2 I would put in the conversation with Mack are Bosa and maybe Garrett and they were both top 3 picks. If we put together a typical Billsy season and win 6-9 games we'd be picking closer to the Shaw Lawson Derek Barnett range, I would take Mack over every guy picked in that range in the past couple of years. 

 

Yeah, but there's a guy named Taco...so I'd probably have to flip a coin between the two...

 

 

26 minutes ago, Yav said:

Honestly, wouldn't everyone expect the Bills to call on Mack? 

A call is just that a call. It comes down to a few things:

1. What do the Raiders want for compensation?

2. What does Mack want for compensation?

 

Personally, I think Hughes has warn his welcome out in Buffalo. He gets dumb penalties and he tends to disappear during long stretches not just during a game but a season as well.

 

 

Could always be a ploy to get the jets to overpay. No harm in a phone call either way. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by BrotherChazz

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, musichunch said:

 

He's on pace to be the unquestionable best. 

Not really. Bosa, Chandler Jones, Campbell, Miller, Lawrence are all top tier with a lot more just behind them. You don't need the best, you need one of the best.

Edited August 24, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[ctk232]

16 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Yep. I’m seeing shades of MARIO Williams. 

Had the same thoughts - while we got Mario a bit more toward the end of his career than Mack is at right now, that's all this made me think of. 

 

Thinking about it more though I'd prefer Mack right now, to the Mario signing when it happened. Mack is easily the better player than Mario, but the hype and feel are the same...it would all depend on what we'd do with his skill set, and how much we would give up for him.

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I can recall watching Bennett tearing it up at Alabama and wanting to cry as Indy drafted O'Landa with their first-round pick. I was ecstatic when the Bills traded for him.  

 

I for one don't think the Bills overpaid for Bennett. I realize that lots do think the Bills overpaid.

Please don't compare Bennett who was a rookie and this guy who is 27,  no more then (2) 2nds and 3rd or 4th rounder.  Give me one good reason why we only received a second for Sammy who was only 23 and this guy some fans want to give up multiple 1st rounders.  

 

Let me accept Jerry and 3 picks  (2) 2nd rounders and a 3rd or forget it,  at his size he will wear down in the next 3-4 years.  Coming off a bad year,  just like Sammy and we only goy a 2 rounder

[Pete]

"KHALIL MACK!  KHALIL MACK! KHALIL MACK!  KHALIL MACK!"

[Mark Vader]

38 minutes ago, njbuff said:

So, 14 pages and counting with this thread?

Be prepared to wait even longer.

 

If Khalil Mack were to get traded soon, I think it would be after this weekend's games.

 

If not, then this could drag on for quite some time.

[Pete]

chant with me Bills brothers and sisters!

Edited August 24, 2018 by Pete

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Please don't compare Bennett who was a rookie and this guy who is 27,  no more then (2) 2nds and 3rd or 4th rounder.  Give me one good reason why we only received a second for Sammy who was only 23 and this guy some fans want to give up multiple 1st rounders.  

 

Let me accept Jerry and 3 picks  (2) 2nd rounders and a 3rd or forget it,  at his size he will wear down in the next 3-4 years.  Coming off a bad year,  just like Sammy and we only goy a 2 rounder

Annnnd, exactly how did I compare them?

[ToGoGo]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Not really. Bosa, Chandler Jones, Campbell, Miller, Lawrence are all top tier with a lot more just behind them. You don't need the best, you need one of the best.

 

Your opinion. 

[Alphadawg7]

33 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Please don't compare Bennett who was a rookie and this guy who is 27,  no more then (2) 2nds and 3rd or 4th rounder.  Give me one good reason why we only received a second for Sammy who was only 23 and this guy some fans want to give up multiple 1st rounders.  

 

Let me accept Jerry and 3 picks  (2) 2nd rounders and a 3rd or forget it,  at his size he will wear down in the next 3-4 years.  Coming off a bad year,  just like Sammy and we only goy a 2 rounder

 

Huh?  Why on Sammy?  Maybe because he had multiple injuries, ones that cost him lots of time.  There was risk with him despite having shown some elite talent when healthy, but that was in 2015 over the last 9 games (after he missed the beginning of the season with a rib injury).  Its not even remotely the same thing.  Watkins was a guy who had the talent to establish himself as a top 10 WR, maybe even better...but had NOT yet reached those levels due to the combination of crap QB's and bad health.  Mack has already established himself as a top 3 defensive player, has been DPOY, and is just entering his prime.  

 

And I am still a big believer in Sammy's talents, but its not remotely close to the same situation.  In fact, Sammy's deal only furthers the fact that Macks should be much higher compensation as he was a guy with POTENTIAL that only had been partially tapped into and slowed down by injuries, where Mack has established himself as one of the best defenders in the NFL.

 

Could Mack be traded for less than a first...sure, anything is possible and Beane is literally a WITCH.  However, the odds are low on that and he is most likely not only going to have a lot of suitors bidding on him, but its going to take not only a first but additional picks or a player(s), or maybe both.  And again, cracks me up people are making a big deal about him being 27, that is so young still and a DE will easily play at an Elite level into their 30's, and even when they slip, they can still be very good even deeper into their 30's.  He will be at an Elite level through the life of whatever contract he signs unless he either loses his drive after getting paid (see Haynesworth for instance) or has injuries slow him down, which has not been a factor yet in his career.  AGE will not be a factor over the life of the contract he seeks.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Nihilarian]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

"KHALIL MACK!  KHALIL MACK! KHALIL MACK!  KHALIL MACK!"

The Bills already have one of the very best secondaries in the NFL and the addition of Mack it would be like 2014 all over again! Maybe even better!

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Huh?  Why on Sammy?  Maybe because he had multiple injuries, ones that cost him lots of time.  There was risk with him despite having shown some elite talent when healthy, but that was in 2015 over the last 9 games (after he missed the beginning of the season with a rib injury).  Its not even remotely the same thing.  Watkins was a guy who had the talent to establish himself as a top 10 WR, maybe even better...but had NOT yet reached those levels due to the combination of crap QB's and bad health.  Mack has already established himself as a top 3 defensive player, has been DPOY, and is just entering his prime.  

 

And I am still a big believer in Sammy's talents, but its not remotely close to the same.  In fact, Sammy's deal only furthers the fact that Macks should be much higher compensation.  

 

Could Mack be traded for less than a first...sure, anything is possible and Beane is literally a WITCH.  However, the odds are low on that and he is most likely not only going to have a lot of suitors bidding on him, but its going to take not only a first but additional picks or a player(s), or maybe both.  And a gain, cracks me up people are making a big deal about him being 27, that is so young still and a DE will easily play at an Elite level into their 30's, and even when they slip, they can still be very good even deeper into their 30's.  He will be at an Elite level through the life of whatever contract he signs unless he either loses his drive after getting paid (see Haynesworth for instance) or has injuries slow him down, which has not been a factor yet in his career. 

You make some good points, but Sammy is a full three years younger than Mack.  That makes a difference.  Sure Mack could be highly productive into his 30s, but he’s on the small side for an edge rusher and might not be nearly as effective if he loses a step. Mack might turn out to be dominant for years to come, but these are things a team will think about before committing $60 million guaranteed to a player, not mention giving up premium draft picks.  I say Mack can be had in exchange for one first round pick.