mykidsdad Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-bills-19-browns-17 Interesting that PFF has little to say about Josh Allen's progress. I normally have a lot of confidence with their analytics and when they came out strongly against Josh Allen, I was really discouraged. If they end up being wrong on this, it may be one of their bigger misses using their advanced stats. It seems to me that they're already being a little stuborn about Josh's early success. It is very early, still, but I would have expected them to say something about him. Could Josh possibly ding their credibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Just now, mykidsdad said: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-bills-19-browns-17 Interesting that PFF has little to say about Josh Allen's progress. I normally have a lot of confidence with their analytics and when they came out strongly against Josh Allen, I was really discouraged. If they end up being wrong on this, it may be one of their bigger misses using their advanced stats. It seems to me that they're already being a little stuborn about Josh's early success. It is very early, still, but I would have expected them to say something about him. Could Josh possibly ding their credibility? It could. But you could also take a ding to your credibility if your username turns out to be wrong...? I kid, I kid.... 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 They are off on a lot of guys quite frankly, there is more to football than stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderGun Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Something tells me that the Buffalo Bills front office invested a lot more time, money, and energy into scouting Josh Allen that PFF did, including analytics. Besides, do their analytics take into account playing at a garbage school with garbage skill players and garbage coaching??? What about all the good things Sports Science had to say about him? Edited August 19, 2018 by ThunderGun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ThunderGun said: Something tells me that the Buffalo Bills front office invested a lot more time, money, and energy into scouting Josh Allen that PFF did, including analytics. Besides, do their analytics take into account playing at a garbage school with garbage skill players and garbage coaching??? What about all the good thing Sports Science had to say about him? PFF will survive, I'm sure. They seem to be a solid source, getting better anyway. Its 50/50. Has been. Always will be. From a sports anylitics crew, to owners, coaches, die hard fans, local media, etc. This won't hurt PFF, but it just MAY help build the Legend Coming? Maybe...its 50/50 Idt their coaching was garbage, btw Edited August 19, 2018 by BuffAlone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, ThunderGun said: Something tells me that the Buffalo Bills front office invested a lot more time, money, and energy into scouting Josh Allen that PFF did, including analytics. Besides, do their analytics take into account playing at a garbage school with garbage skill players and garbage coaching??? What about all the good things Sports Science had to say about him? Against garbage competition too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderGun Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: Against garbage competition too. Doesn't matter, you put garbage against garbage you still get garbage. Allen was a rare prospect who somehow slipped through the fingers of BCS schools, but everybody he played with and under was garbage compared to NFL calibre players and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 To come along as fast as he did, I'd say Allen got some pretty good coaching. They ran a pro-style offense and got him prepared for the pros. We're still premature on this anyway. Dude has only played 2 preseason games. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderGun Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 minute ago, LeGOATski said: To come along as fast as he did, I'd say Allen got some pretty good coaching. They ran a pro-style offense and got him prepared for the pros. We're still premature on this anyway. Dude has only played 2 preseason games. Yeah, from THIS coaching staff. Why wouldn't they have worked out the flaws in his game sooner if they were any good @ Wyoming? Seems like Allen is pretty fast on the uptake, and has rectified many of his issues quickly. That's all credit to McD's staff, not Wyoming. This team has two healthy QBs. One set the NFL record for INTS in one half, and should've been intercepted for a pick 6 on his first throw with the 3rd team... The other has every physical intangible a QB could possibly want, was the 7th overall pick, and seems to be acclimating to the game much faster than anticipated. Hopefully this staff just cuts the BS, and makes Allen the starter. Starting Peterman is just a waste of time, and feels like a "Jauron" type move. No point in prolonging the inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I’m pretty high on Allen right now. But I wouldn’t call it a “success” as of yet. He’s seen limited action in 2 preseason games. Preseason games don’t count for anything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 minute ago, ThunderGun said: Yeah, from THIS coaching staff. Why wouldn't they have worked out the flaws in his game sooner if they were any good @ Wyoming? Seems like Allen is pretty fast on the uptake, and has rectified many of his issues quickly. That's all credit to McD's staff, not Wyoming. This team has two healthy QBs. One set the NFL record for INTS in one half, and should've been intercepted for a pick 6 on his first throw with the 3rd team... The other has every physical intangible a QB could possibly want, was the 7th overall pick, and seems to be acclimating to the game much faster than anticipated. Hopefully this staff just cuts the BS, and makes Allen the starter. Starting Peterman is just a waste of time, and feels like a "Jauron" type move. No point in prolonging the inevitable. It's a little crazy to think that the Bills' coaching staff has miraculously fixed all of Allen's shortcomings over the course of one TC. Regardless, they'll get the credit if Allen turns into a franchise QB. I'm good with whatever they decide. Historically, guys like Peterman and McCarron don't keep a 7th overall pick on the bench. Only established vets do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 hours ago, mykidsdad said: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-bills-19-browns-17 Interesting that PFF has little to say about Josh Allen's progress. I normally have a lot of confidence with their analytics and when they came out strongly against Josh Allen, I was really discouraged. If they end up being wrong on this, it may be one of their bigger misses using their advanced stats. It seems to me that they're already being a little stuborn about Josh's early success. It is very early, still, but I would have expected them to say something about him. Could Josh possibly ding their credibility? They are dead to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 People get things wrong but it’s still early days here. I know we’re excited but we need to gather ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: I’m pretty high on Allen right now. But I wouldn’t call it a “success” as of yet. He’s seen limited action in 2 preseason games. Preseason games don’t count for anything.... His pocket shiftiness in Cleveland vs. oncoming rushers DOES translate to the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said: His pocket shiftiness in Cleveland vs. oncoming rushers DOES translate to the regular season. As does the rocket arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 PFF always makes mistakes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergie's ire Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I don't know about PFF, but there seems to be a lot of people who seem to be personally invested in seeing Josh Allen. It's as if they are angry that the Bills would dare to pick Allen and irately insist that Allen will be a bust. It's one thing to rationally think that Allen will be a bust...or for a Bills fan to be angry they picked him...but there is a group in the media who act as if Allen's success would be a personal insult to them....which is weird. Many in this group also seem angry the Bills let Tyrod go. It's a group that picks the Bills to finish last. Again, I think that it's fine to pick the Bills last...and there are some reasons to do so: no established quarterback, concerns about o-line, etc. However, they seem angry when they say it...as if they are saying, "It serves them right." My suspicion is that they see the Bills as mounting an attack on analytics and want them to fail for doing so. Again, my suspicion is that this crowd is populated by analysts who rely on a superficial understanding of analytics: e.g. Tyrod's touchdown to interception ratio and Allen's completion percentage. I don't think that the Bills are attacking analytics...or ignoring them...but look at context and have a more complex understanding of them...and that there are other metrics....like Tyrod's third down completion rate. But because they see Bills as anti-analytics they feel personally invested in seeing them fail. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Stats are for losers, no matter what Josh ends up doing, so PFF’s credibility wouldn’t change one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I've said it before and I'll say it again: PFF is a joke. You can't take anything they publish seriously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...Florio seems to be a pretty pompous "sure of himself" yipster........... Florio has no affiliation with PFF. He's the main face of Pro Football Talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Florio has no affiliation with PFF. He's the main face of Pro Football Talk. LOL....one letter off....didn't take my meds yet........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 5 hours ago, mykidsdad said: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-bills-19-browns-17 Interesting that PFF has little to say about Josh Allen's progress. I normally have a lot of confidence with their analytics and when they came out strongly against Josh Allen, I was really discouraged. If they end up being wrong on this, it may be one of their bigger misses using their advanced stats. It seems to me that they're already being a little stuborn about Josh's early success. It is very early, still, but I would have expected them to say something about him. Could Josh possibly ding their credibility? Allen should start, he needs to get his career going. End of the day Nathan Petterman is loser , who set some record for first starts by throwing 5 picks in opening half. He should have been released this offseason. The guy is too short and his arm is not strong enough to play in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Oh mykidsdad! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) This is actually a good point. In the article they say that Mayfield put together a nice outing but only refer to Allen when they say he handed the ball to Murphy. Even at the end they say our quarterbacks had a nice game but need to get more consistency. Never mentioning the one quarterback of the night that was at the very least, consistent. Edited August 19, 2018 by Bobby Hooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 4 hours ago, ThunderGun said: Yeah, from THIS coaching staff. Why wouldn't they have worked out the flaws in his game sooner if they were any good @ Wyoming? Seems like Allen is pretty fast on the uptake, and has rectified many of his issues quickly. That's all credit to McD's staff, not Wyoming. This team has two healthy QBs. One set the NFL record for INTS in one half, and should've been intercepted for a pick 6 on his first throw with the 3rd team... The other has every physical intangible a QB could possibly want, was the 7th overall pick, and seems to be acclimating to the game much faster than anticipated. Hopefully this staff just cuts the BS, and makes Allen the starter. Starting Peterman is just a waste of time, and feels like a "Jauron" type move. No point in prolonging the inevitable. There is a difference between Offense coaching and QB coaching. He clearly had good Offense coaching learning to read defenses, not looking only at half a field, etc. but he did not have good QB coaching correcting his stance, etc and Palmer helped a lot with that. I disagree with just start him until: 1. OL is ready. If they cannot protect him then I'd rather P5t5rman take the lumps 2. He learns to slide! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I would love to have seen profootball focus analyze Brady coming out of Michigan or Montana coming out of Norte Dame that way we could all laugh cause there is no magic formula for a franchise NFL qb some just have it some don’t and they clearly missed on Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Just more random noise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, Limeaid said: I disagree with just start him until: 1. OL is ready. If they cannot protect him then I'd rather P5t5rman take the lumps 2. He learns to slide! He did a head first slide. I believe that is protected and marked essentials the same as a feet first slide this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I'd say no. Josh Allen's did have some glaring issues in college. Some players make huge unexpected leaps in improvement at random stages of their careers. If Josh Allen can turn the corner in one NFL offeason that would be great, but I don't think it would look poorly on PFF at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Yes. It will make Pro Football Focus look very bad. PFF bash Allen pretty hard and in some videos were even mocking him. Bad look on PFF bashing players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Allen has already outperformed my expectations of what he would look like... purely based on “expert” opinions and pre-draft analysts. So I guess that’s a good thing. He looks like a real QB and not the least bit mentally overwhelmed by NFL players coming at him. Seems to love his job too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedGame Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 6 hours ago, mykidsdad said: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-bills-19-browns-17 Interesting that PFF has little to say about Josh Allen's progress. I normally have a lot of confidence with their analytics and when they came out strongly against Josh Allen, I was really discouraged. If they end up being wrong on this, it may be one of their bigger misses using their advanced stats. It seems to me that they're already being a little stuborn about Josh's early success. It is very early, still, but I would have expected them to say something about him. Could Josh possibly ding their credibility? I think the correct answer is “Who the h&ll cares?” I just don’t understand people who’s sense of satisfaction is derived from seeing the evil awful media proven wrong and knocked down a peg. #sad #toolittletobegratefulfor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 hour ago, teef said: Oh mykidsdad! I was waiting for this and was not disappointed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 6 hours ago, mykidsdad said: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-2018-bills-19-browns-17 Interesting that PFF has little to say about Josh Allen's progress. I normally have a lot of confidence with their analytics and when they came out strongly against Josh Allen, I was really discouraged. If they end up being wrong on this, it may be one of their bigger misses using their advanced stats. It seems to me that they're already being a little stuborn about Josh's early success. It is very early, still, but I would have expected them to say something about him. Could Josh possibly ding their credibility? Stats don't miss. Their not made in a vacuum. If stats we're %100 of the time, it wouldnt make any sense. Many of us arent suprised because of the intangibles of the kids situation. They we're unique. I have never argued the low probability of Allen, but I did Belive there was more to him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickleyjones Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 people try to make statistics mean more than they actually mean. if it were only for football that would be good. fact is, stats are used incorrectly in much more important areas of life...there is a lot of terrible medical research done by doctors who think they know something about the scientific method. once again: statistics say very little about the future of a specific player. PFF makes me laugh, it is impossible to take them seriously. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, wppete said: Yes. It will make Pro Football Focus look very bad. PFF bash Allen pretty hard and in some videos were even mocking him. Bad look on PFF bashing players. That's why tact is important. Tell us he is low probability, and support it. Once you bash a guy then it's personal and not stat based anymore. All of a sudden you have a bias personal investment in what was originally a stat. 4 minutes ago, dickleyjones said: people try to make statistics mean more than they actually mean. if it were only for football that would be good. fact is, stats are used incorrectly in much more important areas of life...there is a lot of terrible medical research done by doctors who think they know something about the scientific method. once again: statistics say very little about the future of a specific player. PFF makes me laugh, it is impossible to take them seriously. Honestly, I dont think people understand how statistics work very well. Trends must be bucked.... Or everything would be %100. I think that's how many people take a low probability like it's a can't happen. Edited August 19, 2018 by JaxBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) How about all the people here who literally tantrummed after the Allen pick was announced? And the ones who said before the draft that they were done with the Bills if they picked Allen? Will they be dinged? Edited August 19, 2018 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) It seems to me that there are many fans, reporters and analysts who seem to want to see Josh Allen fail. This has trickled all the way down to the fans as well. If you recall, many fans were livid that the Bills selected Allen while Rosen was on the board. But why? One year ago, Allen was in contention to be the #1 overall pick and considered the best QB in the draft. It’s because many in the media were certain that Allen was going to be bust based on factors from college. Many fans didn’t really give a damn about Wyoming football and the majority likely never watched more than 1 game (if that) Yet many in the media seemed to be all in on the narrative that Allen was a bad prospect. Bills fans were downright depressed because they assumed the Warren Sharp’s of the world knew more football than the Brandon Beane’s. It continues today. It started in training camp when on really bad screw pass went vital. Then despite two pretty good performances in preseason, there are some that want to make excuses. IMO it’s way too early to determine if Allen will be a good QB or not. But I just don’t think he gets a fair shake from the media, who In turn has a negative effect on fans. I think many of the “football analytics” want to prove that their methods of analysis are superior in many ways - including scouting. Just like Moneyball, they want to quantify the process of scouting which conflicts with the traditional scouting measures. It’s kind of old school vs. new school. Using their metrics, Allen will fail in the NFL. I legit think they want to be right so they said “we told you so” as a way to prove their methods as accurate. I think we all see the negative media bias against Allen. Question is, where does it come from? Edited August 19, 2018 by BuffaloRush 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 It’s part of a global media conspiracy against... whatever we are for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 It’s not just the media. There’s a huge contingent of Bills fans who refuse to see what their eyes are telling them. probably PTSD, but I’m no doctor.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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