Rumour: Rosen and Mayfield were off the Bills' Board

[GunnerBill]

Okay... so I don't really go in for inside sources type gossip but I got told something yesterday, 3rd hand by someone whose route tree for the information seemed to be legit. I know him from a couple of NFLUK events I have attended and he used to coach (position coach only) in the league.  I won't say more than that.  His information confirmed to me the suspicion that I think many on this board have had about the Bills Quarterback draft board.  They had two Quarterback prospects with top 10 grades and a third who they would have considered with a later first round selection.  Those two were, in order:

 

1. Sam Darnold

2. Josh Allen

 

The third was Mason Rudolph. He claimed that neither Josh Rosen, nor Baker Mayfield were on the Bills' draft board at all. Both had been removed due to off the field concerns and neither were under consideration as a potential Buffalo Bill. The Bills allegedly had a mid round grade on Lamar Jackson and he wasn't their 4th Quarterback (though he did not say who was).

 

The information actually makes me feel a little better about the Josh Allen pick and their ability to evaluate. The have access to infinitely more sources of personal information about these kids than I or any other fan and obviously decided that Rosen and Mayfield did not fit what they wanted from a culture point of view. I like Rosen's personality from what I have seen and think the criticism for his public persona is total hogwash. But the Bills have the opportunity to go deeper into his circle in a way I never could. It means that they did not look at Josh Allen's tape and think "that's better than Rosen's" which reassures me somewhat for the long term.

 

It doesn't make me believe Allen is any more likely to work out than I thought before.... but it does at least make me believe that they probably made the only choice they thought was available to them. Here is hoping it works out.  

 

 

[zevo]

I think this has been speculated but i have no reason to doubt this...all seems plausible. Giving up what they did to move up to get Allen should tell you all you need to know of how they valued him.

[eball]

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

[Magox]

If you listened to everything that Beane was saying when looking at the sort of QB that he wants to lead this franchise, Darnold and Allen fit more the mold of QB that they are looking for.

 

They may very well end up being wrong on their evaluations but at least they went and got their guy.  You can't ask for anything more than that.

[Wayne Arnold]

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

[The Now Moment]

It makes sense.  Whether it's true or not, it makes sense.  I know so many people wanted Rosen but did they really take into consideration his fit for this team?  Attitude questionable at times and he's got some red flag injuries, especially for a team that plays in cold weather a lot.  Mayfield had his fair share of off the field stuff that didn't happen when he was 16 but happened throughout his college career.  Fans just look at stats and the highlight reels and make their choice of who they want.  Wouldn't be shocked if this was true.

[Soda Popinski]

Someone on Reddit posted a pick of what they said was a meeting office at OBD with a glass board and it ranked them like this:

 

Allen

Darnold

Mayfield

Rosen

Rudolph

 

 

It was up for about 8 minutes and then taken down.  It also showed a trade with Denver to get to 5.    This was 8 days before the draft.   

 

Maybe it was total BS, i don't know.    

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Good lord. Want a box of godiva and some red wine?

 

Edit: was meant for @Wayne Arnold

Edited May 3, 2018 by joesixpack

[CommonCents]

The Bills have eliminated the leaks, I don’t believe some random former position coach has access to the teams draft board. The order he gave looks about right but most anyone who was following closely could create that list of guesstimations!

[Chuck Wagon]

It makes me feel a little better we got Allen.  I can't say it makes me feel better about their ability to evaluate if they would have taken a guy in the 20s who ended up going in the 70s.

 

I'm through complaining about selecting Allen as it seems plan B was something like Edmunds at 12 and Rudolph at 22.

[MAJBobby]

GM debunked this and said absolutely Josh Rosen was considered 

Just now, Commonsense said:

The Bills have eliminated the leaks, I don’t believe some random former position coach has access to the teams draft board. The order he gave looks about right but most anyone who was following closely could create that list of guesstimations!

 

Have they. There was a source reporting the Allen pick since Late Feb. 

 

maybe now that Brandon is Gone all the leaks have been eliminated. 

[Billsflyer12]

With Beane and McD, one now must ask if potential draftee or signee fits into their “faith, family, football,” and unfortunately it may be in that order.

[LabattBlue]

If Mayfield was removed from their draft board for "off-field/character" concerns, I'd like to see the complete list, because it must be pretty long. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I don't feel good about the idea that they would have taken a third round quarterback at the end of the first. The makes me seriously question their scouting skills and common sense. I do feel good about the fact that Allen seems to be their guy. 

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, eball said:

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

I mentioned that it was one of my only concerns with him after watching him in the cotton bowl.

[ko12010]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

Like a Leinhart 2.0 or is Darnold a significantly better prospect? I feel like Leinhart must have had ridiculous numbers with those stacked teams and had all the physical tools besides maybe a rocket arm? But he had at least a solid arm.

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

GM debunked this and said absolutely Josh Rosen was considered 

 

Have they. There was a source reporting the Allen pick since Late Feb. 

 

maybe now that Brandon is Gone all the leaks have been eliminated. 

One person's words doesn't debunk anything, especially when that person has to lie on a consistent basis (ie. an NFL GM esp. around draft time)

[ddaryl]

Baker Mayfield being off the board screams what I already have figured out. We are going to be Carolina Panthers north.  Baker can't run a similiar offense that Cam is running. I believe the bills didn't rate him low they just couldn't design an offense for Mayfield because they do not know how or feel condfident they could, so off the baord he went

 

This makes me a little nerovous because it kinda saying to me, that our coaches don't have that much ability to design a offense around different styes of QB's. I would like to feel confident that our OC  and McD could go any direction whenver they need to but ob vioulsy this is not the case

 

In the ase of Rosen I can see the concern that he is not a process guy

 

However if it ever becomes a "faith" reasoning why we don't pick someone up I will be repulsed. Faith should never come up, that is a personal journey one that does not have to be shared with anyone or expected from anyone

Edited May 3, 2018 by ddaryl

[aristocrat]

allen's biggest chance at success will be loading the team with talent.  big defense big run game and the kid will have a much easier time developing. 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, ko12010 said:

Like a Leinhart 2.0 or is Darnold a significantly better prospect? I feel like Leinhart must have had ridiculous numbers with those stacked teams and had all the physical tools besides maybe a rocket arm? But he had at least a solid arm.

One person's words doesn't debunk anything, especially when that person has to lie on a consistent basis (ie. an NFL GM esp. around draft time)

 

After the draft no reason to lie. He said absolutely Rosen was considered when asked. So yep debunks the entire Rosen was OFF THEIR Board 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

Baker Mayfield being off the board screams what I already have figured out. We are going to be Carolina Panthers north.  Baker can't run a similiar offense that Cam is running. I believe the bills didn't rate him low they just couldn't design an offense for Mayfield because they do not know how or feel condfident they could, so off the baord he went

 

This makes me a little nerovous because it kinda saying to me, that our coaches don't have that much ability to design a offense around different styes of QB's. I would like to feel confident that our OC  and McD could go any direction whenver they need to but ob vioulsy this is not the case

 

Holy jumping to extreme and unfounded conclusions, Batman!!!

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

Baker Mayfield being off the board screams what I already have figured out. We are going to be Carolina Panthers north.  Baker can't run a similiar offense that Cam is running. I believe the bills didn't rate him low they just couldn't design an offense for Mayfield because they do not know how or feel condfident they could, so off the baord he went

 

This makes me a little nerovous because it kinda saying to me, that our coaches don't have that much ability to design a offense around different styes of QB's. I would like to feel confident that our OC  and McD could go any direction whenver they need to but ob vioulsy this is not the case

 

IDK man. If Daboll brought his Bama offense here, Mayfield would be a great pick. I think that they are not going to run a "Bama college, flash in the pan offense. "That is what Mayfield is going to need. I think they want to run a real, big boy, NFL offense and that is why Allen makes sense more than Mayfield. 

[ddaryl]

Just now, eball said:

 

Holy jumping to extreme and unfounded conclusions, Batman!!!

 

 

what ?  Just my opinion .....   Its what I have been feeling since we started briging up ex Carolina Pantehr after ex-carolna panther, and was cemented with picking Allen and dropping Mayfield off the board.

 

I

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

 

IDK man. If Daboll brought his Bama offense here, Mayfield would be a great pick. I think that they are not going to run a "Bama college, flash in the pan offense. "That is what Mayfield is going to need. I think they want to run a real, big boy, NFL offense and that is why Allen makes sense more than Mayfield. 

 

Maybe, but I still see way too much paralells to Carolina. I'm sure thee will be tweaks to the O design but it sure feels like we are very much Carolina North with the way this team is being built

[Lurker]

Just now, ddaryl said:

This makes me a little nerovous because it kinda saying to me, that our coaches don't have that much ability to design a offense around different styes of QB's. I would like to feel confident that our OC  and McD could go any direction whenver they need to but ob vioulsy this is not the case

 

I'm waiting to see McD grow beyond being a defensive coordinator-type head coach.  The NFL is littered with ex HC's that were great coordinators who made an initial splash when given the top job, but who ultimately didn't/couldn't handle the big picture.   

 

This will be a very interesting year, especially if the Bills get off to a tough start due to their opening schedule.   I'm looking for McD to continue growing as a HC, but that's still a big unknown...

[Seanbillsfan2206]

26 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

Yes but it’s the Jets and not the Patriots. We might be ok

[Chuck Wagon]

18 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

allen's biggest chance at success will be loading the team with talent.  big defense big run game and the kid will have a much easier time developing. 

 

 

The same is true for any young QB.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

23 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

GM debunked this and said absolutely Josh Rosen was considered 

 

Have they. There was a source reporting the Allen pick since Late Feb. 

 

maybe now that Brandon is Gone all the leaks have been eliminated. 

 

Hallelujah!

[DCOrange]

24 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

GM debunked this and said absolutely Josh Rosen was considered 

 

Have they. There was a source reporting the Allen pick since Late Feb. 

 

maybe now that Brandon is Gone all the leaks have been eliminated. 

The Bills love for Allen goes back way further than that. People around the league have been hearing that Buffalo wanted Allen since like October.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

Maybe, but I still see way too much paralells to Carolina. I'm sure thee will be tweaks to the O design but it sure feels like we are very much Carolina North with the way this team is being built

 

Fair enough. I just don't have a problem with this at all. Strong defense, big armed quarterback who can make big plays in the passing game. They were in the Super bowl a couple of years ago, and since they drafted Cam, they have been a very competitive team every year. They have a quarterback who can do things no one else can (until now maybe). Lots of team speed, they create turnovers. I love it. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

The Bills have eliminated the leaks, I don’t believe some random former position coach has access to the teams draft board. The order he gave looks about right but most anyone who was following closely could create that list of guesstimations!

 

I did think that. Equally, his source only knew the information when he walked into the room on draft night.  So this was not a "leak" as such that he was claiming. 

[BillsFan17]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

The Bills love for Allen goes back way further than that. People around the league have been hearing that Buffalo wanted Allen since like October.

Apparently, depending who you listen to, guys like Allen and Darnold played a role in trading down in 2017, to have that ammo to move up if need be in this class.

 

The reason I was skeptical, Beane was here for the 2017 draft, plus we didnt know if these kids would declare.

 

However, that being said, there was def a lot of interest in Allen from Buffalos stand point.

[Not at the table Karlos]

36 minutes ago, eball said:

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

I've only seen Darnold talk a couple times but his looks and personality reminds me of Dexter.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, ko12010 said:

One person's words doesn't debunk anything, especially when that person has to lie on a consistent basis (ie. an NFL GM esp. around draft time)

 

 

The GM wouldn't need to lie once the draft is over and he had his pick of both QB's

[tumaro02]

I am not sure why radio talk show hosts, analysts, and fans have such a hearing problem. Beane and McDermott have stated repeatedly that they want to bring guys in here that have the DNA they want to build this team with. The culture they want to build is clear. Neither Mayfield nor Rosen FIT this culture. It was NEVER going to be Mayfield or Rosen. Darnold, yes, but he was gone. It was ONLY going to be Allen/Darnold or Darnold/Alllen.  Geez..... Open your ears ppl....

[wppete]

I love the Josh Allen pick. He is our guy. 

[aristocrat]

11 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

The same is true for any young QB.

 

absolutely. we keep getting guys like tre white and dion dawkins in the draft and signing guys like poyer and hyde...look out

[The Wiz]

26 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

If Mayfield was removed from their draft board for "off-field/character" concerns, I'd like to see the complete list, because it must be pretty long. 

Well the fact that he couldn't outrun a cop probably didn't help promote his on-field ability to avoid defenders.

Edited May 3, 2018 by The Wiz

[Green Lightning]

No Mayfield or Rosen on the board - really. Both must have been too accurate as passers, no challenge there.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Pure nonsense lol

[wppete]

9 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

absolutely. we keep getting guys like tre white and dion dawkins in the draft and signing guys like poyer and hyde...look out

 

I love what McBean and the Pegulas are doing. They are building the team we all want to see. Build a great defensse, Run the Ball, play hardnose football and let Josh Allen throw bombs all over the field (hopefully accurate). Big nasty guys with Buffalo DNA!

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay... so I don't really go in for inside sources type gossip but I got told something yesterday, 3rd hand by someone whose route tree for the information seemed to be legit. I know him from a couple of NFLUK events I have attended and he used to coach (position coach only) in the league.  I won't say more than that.  His information confirmed to me the suspicion that I think many on this board have had about the Bills Quarterback draft board.  They had two Quarterback prospects with top 10 grades and a third who they would have considered with a later first round selection.  Those two were, in order:

 

1. Sam Darnold

2. Josh Allen

 

The third was Mason Rudolph. He claimed that neither Josh Rosen, nor Baker Mayfield were on the Bills' draft board at all. Both had been removed due to off the field concerns and neither were under consideration as a potential Buffalo Bill. The Bills allegedly had a mid round grade on Lamar Jackson and he wasn't their 4th Quarterback (though he did not say who was).

 

The information actually makes me feel a little better about the Josh Allen pick and their ability to evaluate. The have access to infinitely more sources of personal information about these kids than I or any other fan and obviously decided that Rosen and Mayfield did not fit what they wanted from a culture point of view. I like Rosen's personality from what I have seen and think the criticism for his public persona is total hogwash. But the Bills have the opportunity to go deeper into his circle in a way I never could. It means that they did not look at Josh Allen's tape and think "that's better than Rosen's" which reassures me somewhat for the long term.

 

It doesn't make me believe Allen is any more likely to work out than I thought before.... but it does at least make me believe that they probably made the only choice they thought was available to them. Here is hoping it works out.  

 

 

Gunner, What's the big surprise? It's easy to understand why this regime didn't feel that Rosen was a fit for the type of locker room and roster it was building. I'm not saying this as a criticism of Rosen. He has a distinct personality that many people don't find embracing. It would be utterly foolish to try to construct an environment and then have your leader be discordant to what you are trying to do. When you bring in a qb such as Cutler to the roster you get the Cutler package. The dumbest approach to take is to bring in a player with a Cutler personality (not suggesting Rosen is like Cutler but using as an example) with the intention of having him adjust to what you want him. You are creating a predictable conflict and fiasco. 

 

The best thing that happened to Rosen was that he was drafted by Arizona, and not Buffalo or Cleveland. It is simply a better fit not only in the locker room but also from a regional fan base. Trent Dilfer who knows Rosen well and has worked with him since his high school days has stated that Rosen is a special person and player. He stressed the point that the team that takes him on has to be willing to adjust to his unique personality and demanding personality. McDermott has a grasp of what he wants to build and the profile of a player he wants in his room. The coach was smart enough to realize that he wouldn't be comfortable with Rosen in his room and Rosen wouldn't be comfortable being in the room. The best way to deal with a problem is avoid it.