Rumour: Rosen and Mayfield were off the Bills' Board

[Soda Popinski]

Just now, theRalph said:

What the Bills no doubt recognize - and what many fans, apparently, do not, is the fact that you can't evaluate College QBs with analytics unless you go far deeper into the numbers than these lame-brain draftniks that craft their careers by pushing their nonsense onto unsuspecting pinheads like Mike Schopp. As much as the likes of Schopp like to say that NFL teams don't know how to evaluate talent, the fact is scouts know a lot more about it than do the number crunching analytics-nerds we listened to for months. 

 

The Bills avoided Josh Rosen not unlike how you or I avoid touching a red stovetop. Rosen himself demonstrated the reasoning with his post-selection rant. 

But the Bills, behind closed doors, are snickering at the press on Allen. They know what they have and will unleash it on the league soon enough. 

 

Until then, here's an important safety tip: The instant any of these talent-evaluator hacks that are paraded across our airwaves make a connection between 56% and accuracy, immediately turn them off. And if anyone wishes to debate the merit of using 56% as a measure of Josh Allen's accuracy, bring it...

I'm guessing you've seen the actual game tape of the Hawaii game   

[John from Riverside]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not really suggesting anything. It is just a fact that he had the same number of college concussion as Mayfield but his were mentioned a lot more. Not sure what was behind that, but that is what happened.  

I may not agree with everything that Gunner says...but I learned a long time ago to LISTEN to what he says......I believe all of this.

 

Rosen - the most accurate QB in this draft

Played on a good team

Injury concerns

Committment to football concerns

 

I honestly dont care about his opinions off the field because he is allowed to them......and I actually wanted him through the draft process.....but there is just something about his little speech of making 9 teams regret not drafting him where he came across as a smug SOB.  I started getting turned off the more time went by.

 

I have NO idea how Allen is gonna work out.....but im all aboard that train now

Edited May 3, 2018 by John from Riverside

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I absolutely see Mayfield and Rosen not being on McDermott and Beanes board 

[buffalostu2]

1 hour ago, Billsflyer12 said:

With Beane and McD, one now must ask if potential draftee or signee fits into their “faith, family, football,” and unfortunately it may be in that order.

 

In a pre draft interview McD said they were doing character and fit evals before play evaluation.   That seems crazy out of order.  

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I absolutely see Mayfield and Rosen not being on McDermott and Beanes board 

Not being in the top 1/2 of the first round I can buy.  If they are off the Bills board completely...that is idiotic.

 

So you would be okay with passing on these 2 in the 3rd or 4th rounds?

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I tend to disagree. The Patriots have won over the years without amazing receivers and such. They run a very specific passing game with complicated route trees and things of that nature. They have the GOAT basically, who excels at making good decisions in that scheme. Yeah sometimes they isolate Gronk and take a shot, but that isn't their offense. I think that is what wins football games consistently, finding holes in the defense. I don't want my entire offense built on matchups, because when your stud receiver is hurt, you are left with no offense.  I think you look for mismatches and matchups pre snap and take advantage accordingly. I feel a lot better with an E-P passing attack that utilizes play action and such over an RPO offense in which the quarterback looks at one guy and makes a simple decision based on that one read. That works in the short term...RG3, Kaepernick, Watson. Tyrod...Mayfield. But defenses catch up. The game is designed to go vertical. Defenses use the sideline to scheme all of the time. You simply run out of room going sideways. 

 

The Patriots haven't been about great receivers but they have been about mismatches. Your linebacker might be fast in a straight line but can he spin his hips fast enough when James White goes horizontal and then cuts it upfield after taking a 5 yard swing pass? Is his first step fast enough to stop Wes Welker getting position from the snap and beating him to that soft zone? Those are still mismatches. 

 

RPO is a slightly different beast and I don't actually associate it with horizontal offense exclusively. Nobody went down the field as much as the Texans during Deshaun's starts. Yes you can run RPO as a component of a college style spread and be all about ball out quick hitters but you don't have to. 

 

I am not advocating for the RPO as a staple of an offense either. It was the staple of the Eagles offense with Nick Foles but it was just one part of their scheme when Wentz was starting. 

 

I just don't see the NFL as a run and go deep league anymore. I suppose if you want a nice catchy way of encapsulating my thoughts it would be that this is now a Pat Schurmer league not a Norv Turner league. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

I just don't see the NFL as a run and go deep league anymore. I suppose if you want a nice catchy way of encapsulating my thoughts it would be that this is now a Pat Schurmer league not a Norv Turner league. 

 

Gotcha. I think it is a little bit of both. I think when you draft a guy who can throw it 80 yards, you should certainly include elements of the Norv turner stuff. I also think Allen will be able to drive the ball into those small windows. I think Daboll seems like the type of guy who will implement a lot of different stuff, so I am happy about that. 

[blacklabel]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

If Mayfield was removed from their draft board for "off-field/character" concerns, I'd like to see the complete list, because it must be pretty long. 

 

Ya, this is a fair point. Mayfield has done a few things that may come off as cocky or immature but nothing that anyone should consider "detrimental to a team." I don't mind Mayfield's attitude, kid has confidence and swagger, those are necessary traits if you wanna succeed at the toughest position in sports. Always felt like way too much was made out of Mayfield's off-field stuff and Rosen's personality. 

 

Not only does it suck to wait so long for the draft but with the time between the Combine and the actual Draft, so many things get nitpicked and blown out of proportion. We've heard GMs and teams say it before that they have to be careful with how much analysis they do on players because it's easy to keep circling back to some minor thing and let that thing go from a molehill to a mountain and give teams false reasons not to draft a guy. I assume setting their board and compiling their scouting reports is like painting. At some point you gotta put down the brushes and walk away from the canvas and call it done. 

[BillsFan17]

31 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Except broken bones are not concussions. And Rosen had two concussions last season. Getting three in one year and you are playing with fire.

The point is, injuries are a knock on three of the big four QBs.

 

Moreover,  broken clavicle is not to be taken litely, look at Romo as an example.

 

And again, as far as concussions, to use that as a knock, he could go an entire career without getting another. Or the likelihood of him getting more throughout his career that we dont even know about, ala Brady style is possible as well.

 

I mean, we act like teams don't have their doctors evaluate these kids. We watch players every year fall in the draft due to medicals.

 

If teams were that worried, he wouldn't have went in the top ten.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Not being in the top 1/2 of the first round I can buy.  If they are off the Bills board completely...that is idiotic.

 

So you would be okay with passing on these 2 in the 3rd or 4th rounds?

 

I didn’t say I wanted this.  But I completely see this. 

 

 leading up to the draft I suggested that  there are personality components and off the field aspects that seem very important to ‘McBeane’ and could completely see them outright DQ’ing players that don’t fit their culture, irrespective of football talent. I even suggested their board was Darnold, Allen, Mason.. and that’s it. 

 

 

 

[jr1]

tomorrow there will be a story this was false

[hemma]

Buffalo at its own 35 ..... 11 seconds left in the game .... Allen takes the snap and ducks under an untouched Bosa .... takes 4 steps to his left and launches a pass to the endzone ... Zay Jones .... yes.. yes... Zay Jones rips out of not one, but two defenders hands and falls down with the ball fully under control. 

 

Bills win!  Bills win!

Edited May 3, 2018 by hemma

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Ya, this is a fair point. Mayfield has done a few things that may come off as cocky or immature but nothing that anyone should consider "detrimental to a team." I don't mind Mayfield's attitude, kid has confidence and swagger, those are necessary traits if you wanna succeed at the toughest position in sports. Always felt like way too much was made out of Mayfield's off-field stuff and Rosen's personality. 

 

Not only does it suck to wait so long for the draft but with the time between the Combine and the actual Draft, so many things get nitpicked and blown out of proportion. We've heard GMs and teams say it before that they have to be careful with how much analysis they do on players because it's easy to keep circling back to some minor thing and let that thing go from a molehill to a mountain and give teams false reasons not to draft a guy. I assume setting their board and compiling their scouting reports is like painting. At some point you gotta put down the brushes and walk away from the canvas and call it done. 

He grabbed his junk on national TV......you dont think a GM is gonna give a long hard thought to that being the face of the franchise?  There is also TMZ footage of him being arrested.

 

 

 

 

[LabattBlue]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

He grabbed his junk on national TV......you dont think a GM is gonna give a long hard thought to that being the face of the franchise?  There is also TMZ footage of him being arrested.

 

 

 

 

So you would take him off your board completely because of that?  That is what is being stated in the OP.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

So you would take him off your board completely because of that?  That is what is being stated in the OP.

I believe that Gunner believes his contacts.....and I think there is credibility to that.

 

It could also be more then that.......the fact that he is 6' tall and had concussions might also be playing into it.

 

I think it is probably a overall evaluation of the players that might have taken them off the board....but off the field concerns probably had a big role in it

[muppy]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

GM debunked this and said absolutely Josh Rosen was considered 

 

Have they. There was a source reporting the Allen pick since Late Feb. 

 

maybe now that Brandon is Gone all the leaks have been eliminated. 

which QB wasn't rumored to be at top of Bills draft board...it was a smorgasbord pick your sourced rumor of whom the Bills would take Ridiculous amount of smoke this past pre draft.....SMH

[LabattBlue]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I believe that Gunner believes his contacts.....and I think there is credibility to that.

 

It could also be more then that.......the fact that he is 6' tall and had concussions might also be playing into it.

 

I think it is probably a overall evaluation of the players that might have taken them off the board....but off the field concerns probably had a big role in it

My point is...would you not use a 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick on Mayfield or Rosen..or remove them from your board completely, as was reported.

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Baker Mayfield being off the board screams what I already have figured out. We are going to be Carolina Panthers north.  Baker can't run a similiar offense that Cam is running. I believe the bills didn't rate him low they just couldn't design an offense for Mayfield because they do not know how or feel condfident they could, so off the baord he went

 

This makes me a little nerovous because it kinda saying to me, that our coaches don't have that much ability to design a offense around different styes of QB's. I would like to feel confident that our OC  and McD could go any direction whenver they need to but ob vioulsy this is not the case

 

In the ase of Rosen I can see the concern that he is not a process guy

 

However if it ever becomes a "faith" reasoning why we don't pick someone up I will be repulsed. Faith should never come up, that is a personal journey one that does not have to be shared with anyone or expected from anyone

Yet through the entire combine/ draft process Beane has said the offense would be different based on the player they drafted and that unique skill set. Sounds like exactly what you would want them to do. Are they going to have a preferred player profile of their " ideal QB" ? Of course , and that's as it should be. Why should this indicate that they don't know / have the ability to work with something else? It doesn't , an dthe goal if most every team is to have one QB that leads their team for years. Not to have a bunch of QBs and design various offenses around them. 

[HappyDays]

There was an insider on this board, can't remember who but other people here vouched for him, who said that the Bills were trying like hell to get 1 of 2 QBs they really liked in this draft. He said that they knew the other guys had issues they wanted to avoid. So that makes sense with the info you heard. They've been trying to trade up for Darnold or Allen all along.

[BearNorth]

I like the Allen Pick.  Watching the Bills Raiders in a 42 degree downpour, Cali QB Carr struggled, Tyrod & Shady won the game on the ground and with control passing game with a big assist from Milano on D.

 

Allen is big, big hands, and has played in nasty conditions.

 

Granted Jack Kemp was a cali boy who helped the bills win their only two titles.

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

My point is...would you not use a 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick on Mayfield or Rosen..or remove them from your board completely, as was reported.

Gotcha...I am wondering if it is actually "take them off the board as a 1st round selection"

 

And of course you know they wont be there in the 2nd

[Jay_Fixit]

1 minute ago, BearNorth said:

I like the Allen Pick.  Watching the Bills Raiders in a 42 degree downpour, Cali QB Carr struggled, Tyrod & Shady won the game on the ground and with control passing game with a big assist from Milano on D.

 

Allen is big, big hands, and has played in nasty conditions.

 

Granted Jack Kemp was a cali boy who helped the bills win their only two titles.

Josh Allen is a Cali guy as well.

[HappyDays]

And this makes me happy the Browns took Mayfield. If they had taken Darnold we probably would have traded the farm to get to 2 and take Allen.

[ddaryl]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Yet through the entire combine/ draft process Beane has said the offense would be different based on the player they drafted and that unique skill set. Sounds like exactly what you would want them to do. Are they going to have a preferred player profile of their " ideal QB" ? Of course , and that's as it should be. Why should this indicate that they don't know / have the ability to work with something else? It doesn't , an dthe goal if most every team is to have one QB that leads their team for years. Not to have a bunch of QBs and design various offenses around them. 

 

 

 

Just my observation and opinion.. backed up by their never ending cycle of bringing in players that match what Carolina does on both sides of the ball. AND just because they say it means nothing. I've heard many coaches say things that never happened, They really didn't seem to make any adjustmetns to accomodate TT's strengths last year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

And this makes me happy the Browns took Mayfield. If they had taken Darnold we probably would have traded the farm to get to 2 and take Allen.

 

 Beane has gone on record saying preserving 2019 1st rd pick was most important. They would of never been able to trade up to 2 without offering 2019 1st rd pick

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, eball said:

Very interesting.  We'll see what happens.

 

As an aside, I was talking with a buddy who is a big USC fan and he was much more down on Darnold than I expected.  Said he's your typical laid-back CA kid and while he has all of the physical ability he's also a "happy-go-lucky" kind of guy and he's not sure he has the competitive fire to lead an NFL team.  It was a perspective I hadn't heard previously; if true, NYC will eat him alive.

 

I heard a Sal Pal interview that kind of went along with these thoughts too.

[theRalph]

1 hour ago, Soda Popinski said:

I'm guessing you've seen the actual game tape of the Hawaii game   

Amongst the others.

[MAJBobby]

10 minutes ago, muppy said:

which QB wasn't rumored to be at top of Bills draft board...it was a smorgasbord pick your sourced rumor of whom the Bills would take Ridiculous amount of smoke this past pre draft.....SMH

 

And yet Darlington was always adamant his source was correct and was. There is or was still a leak 

[PromoTheRobot]

49 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

The point is, injuries are a knock on three of the big four QBs.

 

Moreover,  broken clavicle is not to be taken litely, look at Romo as an example.

 

And again, as far as concussions, to use that as a knock, he could go an entire career without getting another. Or the likelihood of him getting more throughout his career that we dont even know about, ala Brady style is possible as well.

 

I mean, we act like teams don't have their doctors evaluate these kids. We watch players every year fall in the draft due to medicals.

 

If teams were that worried, he wouldn't have went in the top ten.

That's true only if you count every injury equally.

 

The thing to keep in mind with Rosen is he doesn't need the money. He gets his bell rung again and he could say eff it. 

[billsfan1959]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

If you listened to everything that Beane was saying when looking at the sort of QB that he wants to lead this franchise, Darnold and Allen fit more the mold of QB that they are looking for.

 

They may very well end up being wrong on their evaluations but at least they went and got their guy.  You can't ask for anything more than that.

I do believe the vast majority of fans were in the camp of "take a shot" at a franchise QB, and most of those, myself included, were of the opinion they would rather the FO take a chance and fail then not take a chance at all. Well, they did. I'm with you, we can't really ask for more than that.

 

I believe the order of their board was Darnold and then Allen. There is no way they were going to get Darnold, so, they went with Allen. The longevity of the FO and coaching staff will be primarily dependent upon the talent assembled and the ability to get the most out of that talent on the field. I'm feeling pretty good about both so far. Here's hoping for the best with Allen.

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

There was an insider on this board, can't remember who but other people here vouched for him, who said that the Bills were trying like hell to get 1 of 2 QBs they really liked in this draft. He said that they knew the other guys had issues they wanted to avoid. So that makes sense with the info you heard. They've been trying to trade up for Darnold or Allen all along.

I remember that! 

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, buffalostu2 said:

 

In a pre draft interview McD said they were doing character and fit evals before play evaluation.   That seems crazy out of order.  

It is a team building vs. talent collection approach.  The Bills did it the opposite way for years and where did it get them?  The objective is to get the most talented players who also fit into your team vision.  Early results last year are promising.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Sadly, I agree with this.   Sad, because I think Rosen has the talent to be something special.   And we've watched countless Bills teams pass up talent over the years because of coaching philosophies that ultimately didn't get the job done.   

 

Maybe McD will break that pattern and Allen will be the next Jim Kelly/Cam Newton.   I hope so.   But McBeane's legacy will always be linked to how their decision plays out...

There is nothing to be sad about.  Because of the nature of the position associated with leadership and interacting with the players the person's personality and ability to relate to others is part of the evaluation process. If he was a CB, LB, OL, DL or receiver the personality quirks/traits wouldn't be much of a factor. 

 

I consider Rosen to be a terrific talent. He is the most polished and prepared qb in this draft class. Going to Arizona was the best situation for him to go to considering the options. As I stated in a prior post I believe that all of the top tier qbs in this draft class will succeed. Much of that success is predicated on being in the right situation. I believe that Arizona is a good  situation for him. 

[Forward Progress]

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

 

If this means that the Patriots are facing two elite quarterbacks in the division for four games per season for the next 20 years, I will enjoy the Pats suffering more than I should.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is nothing to be sad about.  Because of the nature of the position associated with leadership and interacting with the players the person's personality and ability to relate to others is part of the evaluation process. If he was a CB, LB, OL, DL or receiver the personality quirks/traits wouldn't be much of a factor. 

 

I consider Rosen to be a terrific talent. He is the most polished and prepared qb in this draft class. Going to Arizona was the best situation for him to go to considering the options. As I stated in a prior post I believe that all of the top tier qbs in this draft class will succeed. Much of that success is predicated on being in the right situation. I believe that Arizona is a good  situation for him. 

He is gonna need to learn when to give up on plays so he is not taking hits......the hits of the NFL are going to make Rosen long for the hits of college I think.

 

I wish him luch

[atlbillsfan1975]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

Let’s see what the Jets do with him.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know that it is a huge surprise. I simply repeat what he told me.  

That's the point. Those who needed to know knew what was part of the package. Due diligence was applied and then a reasonable  judgment was made. 

[blacklabel]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

He grabbed his junk on national TV......you dont think a GM is gonna give a long hard thought to that being the face of the franchise?  There is also TMZ footage of him being arrested.

 

In the grand scheme of all things, neither of these incidents are really that big of a deal.

 

In the grand scheme of the NFL... these incidents still aren't that big of a deal when compared to other things players have done.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

In the grand scheme of all things, neither of these incidents are really that big of a deal.

 

In the grand scheme of the NFL... these incidents still aren't that big of a deal when compared to other things players have done.

In your opinion

 

 

[blacklabel]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

In your opinion

 

Yezzir, John from Riverside.

[Green Lightning]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't get why Rosen's concussion history is not more troubling to people. He's one big hit away from potentially being done.

Who isn't?