IgotBILLStopay Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 OK Here is another way to love our Round 1 choices. Just imagine that we had picked Tremaine Edmunds at 7 and Josh Allen at 16. Clearly nobody - even that SI writer who gave us a D- just based off the Allen trade and pick - would think it is bad. Tremaine is a genuine Top 10 talent who you can plug anywhere (OLB, ILB, DE, even DB) you have a hole. And, to get one of the top 4 QBs (who others coveted too) at 16 has to be a steal, no? I think some of these writers (Silva / Iyer) are just not thinking clearly! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Allen would have been gone at #10 to Arizona, or does that bit of history change in your scenario. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Poleshifter said: Allen would have been gone at #10 to Arizona, or does that bit of history change in your scenario. Which is my point Poleshifter - by swapping, we effectively drafted a top 10 lock at 7 and a guy surely gone by 10 at 16 - which does not sound bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: Which is my point Poleshifter - by swapping, we effectively drafted a top 10 lock at 7 and a guy surely gone by 10 at 16 - which does not sound bad at all. People will simply point to the draft stock used to trade up for both though. Especially that 7th pick. Two 2nd rounders is a lot for a LB. Much easier to understand when the cost is associated at rolling the dice on a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) A lot of these experts are crying about the two second rounders that they used to trade up to 7.... Plenty of pre draft mocks I saw had them trading up to 4 or 5 to pick Allen giving up both first rounders and more... It appears that these guys are fixated on them giving up too much to get to 7, but would have been happy to give up more to get to 4 or 5 for the SAME player... Edited May 1, 2018 by Aussie Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: Which is my point Poleshifter - by swapping, we effectively drafted a top 10 lock at 7 and a guy surely gone by 10 at 16 - which does not sound bad at all. At the end of the day we still end up with Allen, the last QB I wanted. So what difference does it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 "Experts" would then say, "See, Allen wasn't viewed as a top pick otherwise someone would have taken him way before 16". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Allen would have been gone and everyone would have been pissed we didn't get a QB. Next thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: OK Here is another way to love our Round 1 choices. Just imagine that we had picked Tremaine Edmunds at 7 and Josh Allen at 16. Clearly nobody - even that SI writer who gave us a D- just based off the Allen trade and pick - would think it is bad. Tremaine is a genuine Top 10 talent who you can plug anywhere (OLB, ILB, DE, even DB) you have a hole. And, to get one of the top 4 QBs (who others coveted too) at 16 has to be a steal, no? I think some of these writers (Silva / Iyer) are just not thinking clearly! Interesting perspective and pretty accurate. No one would have blinked on Edmunds at 7 and Allen would have been considered a steal at 16. Good post 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Draft grades are useless right now. Every person has an opinion on the players they like, dislike, or just admit they don't know jack sh*t about. This SI writer, Evan Silva, and Mel Kiper all are just putting their opinions out there. They are neither right nor wrong at the moment. What we are getting from these players in 2 or 3 years will tell the tale. Then we can see which opinions were right and which opinions were like fresh baby sh*t in a Pamper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 That really is where I am at..... We traded our starter for a 3rd round pick....and have a QB that was another teams backup and our 5th round selection from last year....I have hopes for AJM but come on man.....that is not a feel good position just yet. Beane plays the waiting game because we dont want to give up draft capital THAT WE ACCUMULATED SO WE COULD GET A QB THIS YEAR......and take the QB with the highest upside and physical tools out of the entire class of a strong QB class........then we LOSE them and people are lamenting because now we are looking at Rudolph or Jackson (I like Jackson) Could you imagine the boards if we did that? OMFG Beane actually was able to make it all work....while STILL keeping our 1st round pick 22 which turns into a freak linebacker AND our 2019 pick. EVERYONE thought that our trade up was going to cost both.....it didnt. Thrilled with the way this went. I was a Rosen guy because of his accuracy and he is pro ready.....he is also one hit away from looking at his next career option with all those concussions and shoulder issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Give up 2 2s for that LB at #7 and you get blasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It’s fun to pretend sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, dayman said: Give up 2 2s for that LB at #7 and you get blasted Probably but I think that the point was no one would have questioned the LB at 7. No one would have questioned giving up 2 2nds to go from 12 to 7 for a QB. I think that the OPs point is that the Bills got strong value for those two spots. If you take the Bills first 3 rounds and the Jets first 3 rounds and put them side-by-side the Bills killed it comparatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Let it go, OP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) To me there's no value of where you draft a QB, if he's a projected late rounder but can be a franchise guy and goes in the first,it's a win . If he's a projected first and you grab him in the 3rd and busts, well ,you just wasted a 3rd rounder and take a L. The diversity of grades , ranging from A to D- show what most of us already know, and that is we know Nothing about how successful these draft picks will be, including these self proclaimed experts. Edited May 1, 2018 by JerseyBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I would take our 2 first round picks over Cleveland’s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2112 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Excellent point. So would I. And I was more on the Rosen train than the Allen train. And, in regards to Cleveland, who out there on this board, when Cleveland picked an Ohio State DB with the 4th pick, had flashbacks to the Bills taking Donte Whitner with a top 10 pick a few years ago? Whitner was a good prospect and had an OK career, but NEVER should have been picked in that spot and I suspect the same will be said about Denzel Ward down the road. The Whitner pick made me sick to my stomach, as did the Aaron Maybin pick a few short years later. I realize that I went off-topic, but this is where the stream of consciousness led me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 What amuses me is the same people who had mocks showing Allen going number 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 10,11,12,13.....same people will say he's no good. The Bills tested the crap out of this guy. He's got a FANTASTIC arm, and a great work ethic. With proper coaching, a good OL, decent receivers (including tight ends), Josh Allen has the potential to become a huge star. He's a good kid. He's got potential. Makes no sense to throw down on him now that he's a Bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 48 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Probably but I think that the point was no one would have questioned the LB at 7. No one would have questioned giving up 2 2nds to go from 12 to 7 for a QB. I think that the OPs point is that the Bills got strong value for those two spots. If you take the Bills first 3 rounds and the Jets first 3 rounds and put them side-by-side the Bills killed it comparatively. Oof, their entire draft... Darnold better be fantastic for them, because the rest of that draft looks shakey at best. 1 3 Sam Darnold** QB USC 6' 4" 225 3 72 Nathan Shepherd DT Fort Hays State 6' 4" 305 4 107 Christopher Herndon TE Miami 6' 4" 255 6 179 Parry Nickerson CB Tulane 5' 11" 185 6 180 Folorunso Fatukasi DT UConn 6' 2" 320 6 204 Trenton Cannon RB Virginia State 5' 11" 175 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulles Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said: A lot of these experts are crying about the two second rounders that they used to trade up to 7.... Plenty of pre draft mocks I saw had them trading up to 4 or 5 to pick Allen giving up both first rounders and more... It appears that these guys are fixated on them giving up too much to get to 7, but would have been happy to give up more to get to 4 or 5 for the SAME player... It is fascinating to watch revisionist draft mockery get revised right before our eyes! Anything for a click. Besides, it's easy to take shots at the potential "Ryan Leaf." If he flops..."I told you first!" If he succeeds..."Aw shucks, but boy I'm happy for him!" It's a no-lose situation for sports writers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said: OK Here is another way to love our Round 1 choices. Just imagine that we had picked Tremaine Edmunds at 7 and Josh Allen at 16. Clearly nobody - even that SI writer who gave us a D- just based off the Allen trade and pick - would think it is bad. Tremaine is a genuine Top 10 talent who you can plug anywhere (OLB, ILB, DE, even DB) you have a hole. And, to get one of the top 4 QBs (who others coveted too) at 16 has to be a steal, no? I think some of these writers (Silva / Iyer) are just not thinking clearly! Better not to care what a sportswriter thinks. They are not scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Teller was a steal in Round 5. Anybody who graded the Bills’ draft lower than a B is on drugs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Green Lightning said: At the end of the day we still end up with Allen, the last QB I wanted. So what difference does it make? At the end of the day it doesn't matter what QB you wanted because you aren't the front office. Are you still going to watch the bills with Allen? I am. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 55 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: At the end of the day it doesn't matter what QB you wanted because you aren't the front office. Are you still going to watch the bills with Allen? I am. What in my post indicated I wasn't going to watch the Bills? I answered the thread's question. At the end of the day, quit jumping to baseless conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 If you swapped EJ and Kiko... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBillsWestCoast Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: A lot of these experts are crying about the two second rounders that they used to trade up to 7.... Plenty of pre draft mocks I saw had them trading up to 4 or 5 to pick Allen giving up both first rounders and more... It appears that these guys are fixated on them giving up too much to get to 7, but would have been happy to give up more to get to 4 or 5 for the SAME player... In weaker drafts pick #7 was like pick #4. This was a very deep top 10. I think it was fair. Not sure about Allen still, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: OK Here is another way to love our Round 1 choices. Just imagine that we had picked Tremaine Edmunds at 7 and Josh Allen at 16. Clearly nobody - even that SI writer who gave us a D- just based off the Allen trade and pick - would think it is bad. Tremaine is a genuine Top 10 talent who you can plug anywhere (OLB, ILB, DE, even DB) you have a hole. And, to get one of the top 4 QBs (who others coveted too) at 16 has to be a steal, no? I think some of these writers (Silva / Iyer) are just not thinking clearly! You don't give up two second round picks to move up 5 picks for a LB. The third round pick was hard enough to swallow. If Edmunds was a top 10 pick why did he last until 16? Allen was gone at 7 if we didn't make the deal to get to 7. Now if you said I could have Rosen at 9 - giving up a second and a fifth, , Edmunds at 16 giving up a second, and keep #65 I would take that deal. I would have been happy with either Allen or Rosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Poleshifter said: Allen would have been gone at #10 to Arizona, or does that bit of history change in your scenario. I don't think that's his point. Our 2 biggest needs we're Franchise QB and MLB. We got the #1 or #2 MLB prospect and, depending on who you ask, a #1, #2, #3 or #4 QB prospect in an extremely top-heavy QB class that saw 5 QBs drafted in the 1st round, most of who were drafted about where they were projected and weren't massively overdrafted like we did with Manuel back in 2013. It's perspective... it means stop whining because we got 2 players by the 16th pick who were being mostly projected higher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Green Lightning said: What in my post indicated I wasn't going to watch the Bills? I answered the thread's question. At the end of the day, quit jumping to baseless conclusions. Op never asked who you wanted at QB. You interjected your dislike for Allen as the pick on your own accord. The op was stating that all these draft grade media outlets wouldn't have blinked if we spent the same and traded up for Edmunds at #7 and Allen at #15, so they need to chill out and just look at the first round as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 11 hours ago, dayman said: Give up 2 2s for that LB at #7 and you get blasted exactly what I was thinking, OBD would have got roasted for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I think people giving negative reviews to the draft start with the assumption that the Bills have an immediate need at QB, and that Josh Rosen would have filled that immediate need better. So swapping the picks around does not address that concern. QB is always a long term need, so if Allen is the better eventual QB than Rosen, it will be hard to criticize the draft in hindsight. Both the second round pick and the third round pick were wonderful gifts of BPA also matching Bills needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 It didn’t happen so why the hell even think or talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Allen and Rosen would have been gone by 16 then what . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, ALF said: Allen and Rosen would have been gone by 16 then what . Then all the Rudolph homers would have been beating off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 8 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: Op never asked who you wanted at QB. You interjected your dislike for Allen as the pick on your own accord. The op was stating that all these draft grade media outlets wouldn't have blinked if we spent the same and traded up for Edmunds at #7 and Allen at #15, so they need to chill out and just look at the first round as a whole. How random, I never asked for your opinion either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 21 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: A lot of these experts are crying about the two second rounders that they used to trade up to 7.... Plenty of pre draft mocks I saw had them trading up to 4 or 5 to pick Allen giving up both first rounders and more... It appears that these guys are fixated on them giving up too much to get to 7, but would have been happy to give up more to get to 4 or 5 for the SAME player... Good point. Those two second rounders don't add up to the #22 pick we retained. Everybody and their mother had us giving up both #1s and this board was peppered with people saying if Beane could keep #22 it would be a genius move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/5/1/11548642/nfl-draft-grades-2016-grading-philadelphia-eagles-draft-picks-carson-wentz-jalen-mills History is the judge. Columnists get paid to write out of their a---s. We'll see what happens. Edited May 2, 2018 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Interesting perspective and pretty accurate. No one would have blinked on Edmunds at 7 and Allen would have been considered a steal at 16. Good post And the (presumable) fact that it never could have happened makes the point even stronger. What are the odds Allen gets to 16? It’s not a lotto ticket, but still looking pretty slim. People will say, “well that would never happen”. Exactly. I’m good with trading down more than up, but there is a time and a place for everything. If you are going to swing the bat for a Franchise QB, pick your guy and go for it, and forget all the “charts”. (Then pray you picked right, because your future is dependent upon it!) I’m quite pleased with where we sit on this draft. They showed an ability to build capital, and a willingness to use it when they thought it made sense. 11 minutes ago, K-9 said: Good point. Those two second rounders don't add up to the #22 pick we retained. Everybody and their mother had us giving up both #1s and this board was peppered with people saying if Beane could keep #22 it would be a genius move. And next year is completely intact. Edited May 2, 2018 by Augie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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