Klaista2k Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Under Roman wasn't our offense statistically pretty good? I know we were 1st in rushing and I think maybe 10th overall in offense? And that was WITH Tyrod as his quarterback... So do you think he was actually a pretty good OC or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Coaching is always to blame, we always have the best players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Roman definitely did a lot of things well. I thought he was the best part of Rex's tenure. He didn't really handle game time decisions like play calling well, there were issues with plays getting in etc. Also, his strength was mostly with running schemes which is not what most people want to do on offense. Edited January 8, 2018 by Steve Billieve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 He took the approach of not asking Tyrod to do things he doesn't do well. That's a big task for an OC, an most would probably take the Dennison approach of sink or swim. Unfortunately , Taylor often sinks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Among the best run schemers in the league low end on the passing scheme but because he creates pressure with the run it masks that some seemed poorly organized running the offense (getting plays in, for instance) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Yes, as was A. Lynn. Denver fans warned us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 yes rick dennison's playcalling can flat out suck. but a good QB will make a play more often than not. tyrod just isnt a good enough QB to cover for dennison's weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said: yes rick dennison's playcalling can flat out suck. but a good QB will make a play more often than not. tyrod just isnt a good enough QB to cover for dennison's weaknesses. Answer??? Move on from both......let Tyrod go to another team and frustrate the hell outa their fan base and let Dennison go to another team and coach the RB's....or whatever. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I thought so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 He is THE best run game coordinator in the game. Not a single shadow of a doubt in my mind. His passing game is relatively basic and not as coherent with his run scheme as it could be. He is also a ponderous play caller at times. But in terms of scheme design he is ver, very good and if I were building a run first NFL offense he would be my very first hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Kwai San said: Answer??? Move on from both......let Tyrod go to another team and frustrate the hell outa their fan base and let Dennison go to another team and coach the RB's....or whatever. Go Bills Amen to both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) We had better WRs that fit what Tyrod does well. He also used Tyrod to run. Edited January 8, 2018 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 brilliant at writing plays but took too long to call them in during games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, jr1 said: brilliant at writing plays but took too long to call them in during games His running plays were great. Heck this year made Alex Collins look good. Agree along his pass plays awful, cute plays were awful as well did soo much in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Under Roman wasn't our offense statistically pretty good? I know we were 1st in rushing and I think maybe 10th overall in offense? And that was WITH Tyrod as his quarterback... So do you think he was actually a pretty good OC or not? He had his flaws--or was it the players that had their flaws--but I would certainly say he knew his personnel and developed the right system for the people he had. Dennison, not so much. He tried. It was good to see the rollouts yesterday, but every one of them was the same: Tyrod rolls right, and there is a short option and a deep option--not hard to defend those Rico. Call it age discrimination if you must, but the game has passed him by. Edited January 8, 2018 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Best running game coordinator in the NFL and his 2017 results in Baltimore prove that yet again. But he can't call plays situationally, nor does he process things quickly enough to get the playcalls in on time. He's a great coach Monday-Saturday. Kinda like Coach Tuesday. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Best running game coordinator in the NFL and his 2017 results in Baltimore prove that yet again. But he can't call plays situationally, nor does he process things quickly enough to get the playcalls in on time. He's a great coach Monday-Saturday. Kinda like Coach Tuesday. I agree with your observations on Roman. A great coach but not during live action. He definitely should have someone else do the playcalling. I see this in coaching all the time. Some coaches need more time to think, these coaches are more analytical in their approach and less "gut feeling" type guys. The best combination is to get the assistants to be the analytical type guys and the coordinator to be more emotionally sensitive to situational football. I think we are in a similar situation with Rico, but opposite. He is a feel coach that was trying to scheme up things but was over sensitive to the fact that Tyrod didn't see the open guys and he became a reflection of the talent he had behind center. I am in the minority that actually thinks that maybe a QB change and possibly a little help on the assistant side of coaching for our offense might be what we see from OBD this offseason. Watch the tape, you will see that in every game this year Tyrod missed open players on multiple plays. That is not the OC's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Steve Billieve said: Roman definitely did a lot of things well. I thought he was the best part of Rex's tenure. He didn't really handle game time decisions like play calling well, there were issues with plays getting in etc. Also, his strength was mostly with running schemes which is not what most people want to do on offense. This is why I think he is not a good offensive coordinator. He is an excellent run game designer. But, he is a bad offensive coordinator. There is more to the job than just figuring out how to design a run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Under Roman wasn't our offense statistically pretty good? I know we were 1st in rushing and I think maybe 10th overall in offense? And that was WITH Tyrod as his quarterback... So do you think he was actually a pretty good OC or not? One of the best run schemes in the league One of the worst pass schemes in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I liked Greg Roman. I thought he was the fall guy for the last regime, and I liked Schwartz. If you have Schwartz and Roman together you have two good units. I don't like to play this card, but if Russ Brandon is really the reason they got rex that guy should be fired. You think of all the people that have been the fall guy for him it's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 He was much better than Dennison, but as people are pointing out - he had his flaws as well. One thing about him, though is that he can get good production out of his offense with plugging in guys that may struggle in other schemes and he works well with what he has. That's a good trait. However, he could baffle you with playcalling at times and it seems like plays came in way too late too often, and didn't let the QB make calls at the line. If you are drafting a guy that has mobility and needs some development Roman wouldn't be a bad guy to have as OC, and I'd swap him out with Dennison in a heartbeat regardless of who the QB is. However, the Bills need to find someone better than both Roman and Dennison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 He was brilliant with the run game and clueless with the pass game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Mrbojanglezs said: He was brilliant with the run game and clueless with the pass game. I agree, but at least his run game could occasionally set up the passing game. At times the running scheme was feared enough to open up deep threats. Dennison’s run scheme and pass scheme are both a mess. It’s really a testament to Shady’s greatness that he’s had a respectable season. The blocking schemes are awful, and many of the run calls are questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I agree with many above. Phenomenal run designer and exceptional OL knowledge. Mediocre when it comes to in game adjustments, and poor when it came to his approach to preparation (not because he didn't try, but because he tried to do too much). The pass offense wasn't his though, as he's never designed one to my knowledge. It was David Lee and Sanjay Lal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: I liked Greg Roman. I thought he was the fall guy for the last regime, and I liked Schwartz. If you have Schwartz and Roman together you have two good units. I don't like to play this card, but if Russ Brandon is really the reason they got rex that guy should be fired. You think of all the people that have been the fall guy for him it's crazy. Everyone loves Russ. He seems kind of tight with Pegs from some of the videos I’ve seen. I’m not claiming that Russ has much power anymore, but he has seemingly worked his way into the good graces of the new ownership. He isn’t going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: Everyone loves Russ. He seems kind of tight with Pegs from some of the videos I’ve seen. I’m not claiming that Russ has much power anymore, but he has seemingly worked his way into the good graces of the new ownership. He isn’t going anywhere. I know that, and I'm not saying he should. But if you think about all the coaches and players that have turned over because of that dude, he should be fired. I'm speaking in a strictly theoretical sense, not practical. It just seems the guy has politiced to where he got, and it was at the expense of a lot of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Roman was a good play designer, imo, but not a good signal caller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Roman had some decent scripted plays but he also didn't call plays to TT's strengths. He also tended to go off script and be stupid. That being said he was better than Dennison who you could defeat quite easily at chess it would seem. Actually I think you defeat Dennison at tic tac toe easily as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 As I recall, there were complaints about his game plans being too complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Better than the idiot we have now, that's for sure 9 minutes ago, hemma said: As I recall, there were complaints about his game plans being too complex. Yep. That's where Lynn did a nice job as he simplified things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Roman = great run game designer but his passing schemes are very elementary and easy to defend. On top of that, his playbook is probably the largest in the league. And then you combine that with Rex's defensive playbook and the '15/'16 Bills basically had encyclopedias for playbooks. Coaches always talk about not thinking and playing fast. When your playbook is ginormous and includes multiple variations of the same play being run out of different formations, it makes it that much more difficult for players to digest the information and then apply it to the field, commit it to mental and muscle memory and then play fast. Leslie Frazier proved that this year. He runs a much more simplified/straightforward scheme and for the most part the defense was much better than it was under Rex. They need better talent in the front seven and they could be a very good unit. Anthony Lynn on the other hand, I feel like he did a pretty good job in 2016 considering he had to use someone else's playbook. He was smart to sit down with the offense and trim down the playbook to the things they did best and make it a little more streamlined, but of course he was limited in installing his own designs because it's pretty difficult to switch offensive (or defensive) styles with the regular season underway. Teams spend all off-season and camp installing/learning/practicing certain schemes, can't just flip everything over to an entirely different system after all that. That's all I'm asking for in 2018, an OC who will design a system that will maximize what his players are naturally good at. And an OL coach who does the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I can't recall for certain, but wasn't play-action pretty much nonexistant under Roman? Maybe it was with Hackett. Boggles the mind when you have the #1 rushing attack but don't use plenty of play-action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Roman is an excellent coordinator in every respect. He doesn't do the modern throw all the time west coast stuff and so some people he isn't their cup of tea. He had Alex Smith/ Keapernick running a high scoring offense and he took Flacco and that gang of cast aways and scored a TD per game more than us. He is a throw back to the old Raiders where you run the ball, suck them in, and then throw it deep. Kill them over the middle with the TE. When you have Taylor, McCoy, and Watkins you get chunk plays and points. Smith was good at that and it fit Taylor well. I said a number of times last offseason if you get the right coach on defense he'll make everyone look better. I'm not going to get into a talent debate again but I will say that a different coach on offense would have done a better job of polishing the turds. Water under the bridge now. Hopefully they get a group of coaches and players that works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Roman was really good... I mean even Lynn still ran Greg's offense. Rex Ryan just needed someone to blame after the crappy start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Roman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Roman was an excellent designer but a poor OC. I'd want him on my staff but not calling plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Offense improved dramatically after he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Great run game designer. Great. Anthony Lynn took it to another level.......best Bills offense in 25 years........7th in scoring and fewest turnovers in the SB era thru 15 games in 2016. Dennison wanted to run his modified WCO scheme regardless of it being a poor personnel fit for Tyrod and the lumbering OL and the RAC-deficient WR talent..........that's what he knows how to do because his boss Gary Kubiak showed him.......that's all he's shown he can do. He's a punt catcher not a real punt returner. I do love all the "a decent QB would have made that play" talk we hear all the time wrt Taylor in Dennison's offense......how could one POSSIBLY tell? The looks a pocket passer would get would be totally different than Tyrod. See the Peterman LA game. That OL is not capable of handling pass rush.......most pocket passers wouldn't even get to see the looks Tyrod did. When Rex took over the Bills offense was a train wreck. We knew this. We knew the OL was very poor. Eric Wood was coming off two garbage seasons in a row. We knew they had no QB. And yet when a coordinator in Roman actually coached up the personnel with scheme/play design they suddenly became the best big play offense in the NFL, the best rush offense in the NFL and one that didn't turn the ball over. The importance of coaching to the strengths of your personnel can't be understated. Edited January 9, 2018 by BADOLBILZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yes he is/was. Tyrod is a coach killer. Get rid of Tyrod and insert a real QB that doesn’t hold onto the ball for 5+ seconds, throws receivers open and is able to step up in the pocket without scrambling around like a fool and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 11:57 PM, Woodman19 said: Coaching is always to blame, we always have the best players. Pretty much this, it's always the coaching staff that gets destroyed due to our gimp QB's. I never wanted Roman gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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