Big Turk Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 The answer is simple....you change the Team name to the Detroit Lions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Lets hope we're lucky enough to hit on a franchise QB in this draft , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I fear we'd be the Colts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Simple - You cry in your beer... On the other hand, failure is not to be feared, it's never trying that is the real sin... I must be becoming a philosopher in my old age... Seriously just go out there and draft the best QB you can find and let's go from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills! Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) You trade you everything for aaron rodgers for 4 first plus a player, and go to the playoffs atleast once... Edited November 24, 2017 by GoBills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjazz Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 You hire a coaching staff that know how to play him ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? It will probably be because there is no team around him, because everyone wanted a QB so bad they forget you need 29 other positions on a team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coffin Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 If we had a franchise QB who is the real deal and we'd still be bad, we'd be in an amazing position to draft talent around him. And it wouldn't be long until we were perennial winners 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 IF you can find a genuine very good starting QB in the draft, then you have a 5 year window to build around him ia the draft before he gets paid big and you have to skimp on other positions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: It will probably be because there is no team around him, because everyone wanted a QB so bad they forget you need 29 other positions on a team. By everyone, you mean McD and Beane, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyjazz Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, NoSaint said: By everyone, you mean McD and Beane, right? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? This is a much more like scenario than that the Bills draft a franchise QB and everything is rainbows and unicorns all the way to the Lombardy Trophy, especially if McDermott and Beane are still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? What happens if they take a later round QB and keep Tyrod as the starter while getting better players in other positions and they still end up with no playoffs at 7-9? Do you really think this staff will be here in 2019 then? IMO not a chance, fans are done waiting on the bridge QB that never has a exit, Peterman is not the exit and the Tyrod bridge is full of holes. Edited November 24, 2017 by xRUSHx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 36 minutes ago, NoSaint said: By everyone, you mean McD and Beane, right? I guess you are basing this snark on all the trades they made. Get back to me in late April and let me know if having all those picks still sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 QB has a 15 year shelf life. If they have been smart and responsible they have also stocked the O-line. These are the things that take so much time. Finding a QB and then developing and maintaining a cohesive line. Greatly simplified but on the whole true as I see it, everybody else you can draft and start soon, or buy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: I fear we'd be the Colts Thats exactly who we’d be - and we’d likely do the same thing they did: Fire the incompetent front office that can’t draft talent and hire one that can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 With the amount of draft picks we have next year, it's not a terrible idea to draft 2. However, I do think Peterman will end up being good at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comebackkid Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Whoever the shiny new qb is, they better be bullet proof with this O-line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said: QB has a 15 year shelf life. If they have been smart and responsible they have also stocked the O-line. These are the things that take so much time. Finding a QB and then developing and maintaining a cohesive line. Greatly simplified but on the whole true as I see it, everybody else you can draft and start soon, or buy. Completely agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 get the QB first. bolster the line in the same draft. next draft bolster the Dline and LB sprinkle some fa pick ups in there. it's going to be two full off seasons and possibly the third before they have this roster ready to contend. but it would seem important to get your QB and build his line in the first off season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 If you don't try you will never find out, repeating the same stupid plan over the last 17 years leads to the same result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Top 16 draft picks QBs since 2000 (top 16 so I can have the joy of including EJ) Vick - hit (gets a big asterisk for those missing prison years) David Carr - bust Joey Harrington - bust Palmer - hit Leftwich - bust Eli - hit Rivers - hit Ben - hit Alex Smith - hit (but it took a while) Vince Young - mixed (not what you hoped for, but was productive for a while) Leinert - bust Jay Cutler - hit (I know, but over a decade as a starter) JaMarcus - bust of epic proportions Ryan - hit Stafford - hit Sanchez - mixed (see Young, Vince) Bradford - hit Newton - hit Locker - mixed (a close call, a good bust argument to be made) Gabbert - bust (unless we see a big late resurgence here) Ponder - bust RG3 - mixed (no one who's that good even for that short a time gets labeled a bust in my book) Tannehill - hit (see Cutler, Jay ... if healthy, he's on his way to a long and mediocre career; I guess I could add a separate "true franchise QB" to differentiate this type of guy) EJ - bust Bortles - mixed (see Locker, Jake) Winston - mixed/incomplete/trending down Mariota - mixed/incomplete/trending up Goff - mixed/incomplete/trending up Wentz - hit Trubisky - incomplete Mahomes - incomplete Watson - hit (but see Griffin, Robert III) So out of 31 first half of the first round picks in this millennium, we've got: 14 hits 8 busts 4 mixed results 5 incompletes The chances of getting your man and having him turn out not to be the man (as in The Franchise)? Probably about 50% ... and a bit higher if you're drafting in the teens. On the other hand, chances of getting at least a solid QB who'll be pretty good for at least a few years and maybe longer? Probably closer to 2 out of 3. Edited November 25, 2017 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Comebackkid said: Whoever the shiny new qb is, they better be bullet proof with this O-line He'll be the next David Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: get the QB first. bolster the line in the same draft. next draft bolster the Dline and LB sprinkle some fa pick ups in there. it's going to be two full off seasons and possibly the third before they have this roster ready to contend. but it would seem important to get your QB and build his line in the first off season? Yeah youd think so because the QB is gonna need time to develop...no point having a team ready to win with a rookie QB...most times that doesnt turn out well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Interesting post from the Frankish Reich. I would have guessed far less than 50% would be hits but it does seem about even. This makes me feel a little better, on the other hand it looks as if the qb talent everyone was raving about before the season started has cooled off and boiled down to Rosen as the clear cut #1 overall. Id love to have him but if we can't oh please lord let the kid go to Cleveland and light up the league for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 7 hours ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? It happens. A worse example than the Detroit Lions is the St Louis Rams. They looked a bit promising Bradford's rookie season, then the wheels fell off. Lots of reasons - lack of continuity in coaching played a role, poor player personnel evaluation/drafting was a big factor I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Draft the qb Then draft the oline to protect him Then draft defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 It's simple, really...........all you have to do is cut, release or fire everyone and start over. You know, kind of what we're doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 You sell the team to some big tech investor who will move them to Oakland to replace the Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Top 16 draft picks QBs since 2000 (top 16 so I can have the joy of including EJ) Vick - hit (gets a big asterisk for those missing prison years) David Carr - bust Joey Harrington - bust Palmer - hit Leftwich - bust Eli - hit Rivers - hit Ben - hit Alex Smith - hit (but it took a while) Vince Young - mixed (not what you hoped for, but was productive for a while) Leinert - bust Jay Cutler - hit (I know, but over a decade as a starter) JaMarcus - bust of epic proportions Ryan - hit Stafford - hit Sanchez - mixed (see Young, Vince) Bradford - hit Newton - hit Locker - mixed (a close call, a good bust argument to be made) Gabbert - bust (unless we see a big late resurgence here) Ponder - bust RG3 - mixed (no one who's that good even for that short a time gets labeled a bust in my book) Tannehill - hit (see Cutler, Jay ... if healthy, he's on his way to a long and mediocre career; I guess I could add a separate "true franchise QB" to differentiate this type of guy) EJ - bust Bortles - mixed (see Locker, Jake) Winston - mixed/incomplete/trending down Mariota - mixed/incomplete/trending up Goff - mixed/incomplete/trending up Wentz - hit Trubisky - incomplete Mahomes - incomplete Watson - hit (but see Griffin, Robert III) So out of 31 first half of the first round picks in this millennium, we've got: 14 hits 8 busts 4 mixed results 5 incompletes The chances of getting your man and having him turn out not to be the man (as in The Franchise)? Probably about 50% ... and a bit higher if you're drafting in the teens. On the other hand, chances of getting at least a solid QB who'll be pretty good for at least a few years and maybe longer? Probably closer to 2 out of 3. I and Dibs and I think others have done this kind of analysis - I went through 3 rounds, Dibs divided up the first into top 10, mid 10, bottom 12 or something like that. We all concluded the chances of getting a decent QB were 50% ish in the top third of the 1st round, dropped to about 30% by the bottom third, and stayed at 20-30% for Rd 2 and 3. I don't think the chances of getting a QB who will, say, be pretty good for, say, 5 years, are as high as 2 out of 3. Since folks are talking about 2-3 years to complete building the roster, 2-3 years won't do, right? Let's cut off at 2014 since 2 1/2 seasons of e v a l isn't much by the 2-3 year time to develop/roster build notion. That gets us 25 players: 12 "hits" 5 "mixeds" 8 "busts" But amoung those "hits" you have Bradford - a guy who just KILLED his draft team by looking like crud his 2nd season, then getting injured...followed by successive tease years (might be good) and injuries. Two years where he looked good for the Eagles and Vikes and he's done it again. Then you have Alex Smith as a hit - a guy who made it onto the "top 5 biggest QB draft busts of all time" lists because it took him 6 years to become a functional NFL QB. They were NOT hits to the team that drafted them. Was it their fault, not entirely, bad coaching and bad teams around them played a role. Switch them to "mixed" Now you have 10/25 success or 40% - right on target with previous assessments. I would also posit close to or better than 60% completions, near 7 AY/A and a TD/INT ratio of >1.5 as criteria for assessing success of a modern QB. By those standards, Mark Sanchez had 2 good years (his 5th& 6th, with Philly); Vince Young had maybe 1 good year (his 5th) or maybe 2 (4th and 5th); Jake Locker maybe 1 good year (his 3rd - then retired after 4). I would lobby for calling them "busts" to their drafting team. 1 hour ago, Da webster guy said: Interesting post from the Frankish Reich. I would have guessed far less than 50% would be hits but it does seem about even. This makes me feel a little better, on the other hand it looks as if the qb talent everyone was raving about before the season started has cooled off and boiled down to Rosen as the clear cut #1 overall. Id love to have him but if we can't oh please lord let the kid go to Cleveland and light up the league for a long time. I think it is about even, or a bit less - see my post above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 8 hours ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? If he's as good as advertised, IMHO the odds are very low that the team would still suck. But assuming it happens, Bills fans won't find it a new experience or any more difficult to deal with than the last 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 9 hours ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? It starts with "ONE".......one QB. Until you have that nothing else matters. If line really sucks you play the second string guy for parts of games to take the beating off the clear franchise #1 guy. Think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 35 minutes ago, cba fan said: It starts with "ONE".......one QB. Until you have that nothing else matters. If line really sucks you play the second string guy for parts of games to take the beating off the clear franchise #1 guy. Think outside the box. It sounds good...just too many instances of teams with the "One" that aren't very good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 15 hours ago, matter2003 said: He is the real deal but two years later the team is in the same position as the Sabres are with their franchise player...namely the cellar. What then? Its a thought nobody really talks about...all you hear is how they need this type of player...and I wholeheartedly agree. What we don't stop and talk about is what happens if he is as good as advertised but the team still sucks? What do we do then? Jack Eichel is a nice player but not a franchise player. McDavid was the franchise player and they missed on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 David Carr - bust? Nice try but wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: David Carr - bust? Nice try but wrong. Are you thinking of Derek Carr of the Raiders not being a bust? Derek’s brother David was the first overall pick the year he was drafted and established himself as a good starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 In the sort of 'window' you are talking about, you should be able to spend some solid coin, on good FAs who can bolster the lines. In that window, you should also have drafted some in slightly lower rounds, who are also good enough to provide the sort of protection needed - e.g. Glenn. As regards looking after said QB, if you start him, you should be looking for him to be throwing as little as possible to begin with, and having a good TE on the roster. Pretty much what the Steelers did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 11 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Top 16 draft picks QBs since 2000 (top 16 so I can have the joy of including EJ) Vick - hit (gets a big asterisk for those missing prison years) David Carr - bust Joey Harrington - bust Palmer - hit Leftwich - bust Eli - hit Rivers - hit Ben - hit Alex Smith - hit (but it took a while) Vince Young - mixed (not what you hoped for, but was productive for a while) Leinert - bust Jay Cutler - hit (I know, but over a decade as a starter) JaMarcus - bust of epic proportions Ryan - hit Stafford - hit Sanchez - mixed (see Young, Vince) Bradford - hit Newton - hit Locker - mixed (a close call, a good bust argument to be made) Gabbert - bust (unless we see a big late resurgence here) Ponder - bust RG3 - mixed (no one who's that good even for that short a time gets labeled a bust in my book) Tannehill - hit (see Cutler, Jay ... if healthy, he's on his way to a long and mediocre career; I guess I could add a separate "true franchise QB" to differentiate this type of guy) EJ - bust Bortles - mixed (see Locker, Jake) Winston - mixed/incomplete/trending down Mariota - mixed/incomplete/trending up Goff - mixed/incomplete/trending up Wentz - hit Trubisky - incomplete Mahomes - incomplete Watson - hit (but see Griffin, Robert III) So out of 31 first half of the first round picks in this millennium, we've got: 14 hits 8 busts 4 mixed results 5 incompletes The chances of getting your man and having him turn out not to be the man (as in The Franchise)? Probably about 50% ... and a bit higher if you're drafting in the teens. On the other hand, chances of getting at least a solid QB who'll be pretty good for at least a few years and maybe longer? Probably closer to 2 out of 3. The fact that you included Bradford as a “hit” made me ask myself a simple question. Is he the most overrated QB in the history of the game? If we draft a guy who has a Bradford like career, our playoff drought will not be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 What a sad bunch. Middle of the season still whining about the “franchise qb” dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts