Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 He matches up well on Beckham jr. beat him to the spot in the probowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Maybe he wasn't hanging out with the other Bills players because they don't really want him around. Just saying. Â There could be many reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Gilmore is gone. He's going for the biggest contract. We aren't matching, we play zone now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think they will tag him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't care what he wants. Tag him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think they will tag him Tag is expensive, but allows sheme options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think they will tag him  Transition tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) I've been around a lot of athletes and think that the "don't want to be here thing is way overblown." It's kind of one of those Buffalo insecurity things. They don't care where they play as long as they are paid. They don't have to live anywhere full-time, they can travel quite a bit and social media has made the world smaller. It may have been a big factor 15 years ago or whenever but it is less so now. Â As long as they are being paid, work in an environment where their family and friends are treated well they really don't care. If you want to force a player out, deny his family and friends access. That's one of the main reasons that LeBron went back to Cleveland. If you start pissing off their inner circle the player won't be too happy. Â What happened to LeBron in Miami? Edited January 30, 2017 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 This is what fans say every single time a player is up for unrestricted free agency.  Every. Time.  Without fail.  Off the top of my head, I can say with certainty that I've read this very statement, on this very board, about:  Jason peters Lee Evans Stevie Johnson Jairus Byrd Andy Levitre Eric Wood Cordy Glenn Jerry Hughes  And now Gilmore.  It's silly.  As for the "he's not very good" crowd, well, go check the "shadow" thread--I promise he's right up there with the elites in terms of both coverage skill and tackle numbers. Yeah, this insecure, nobody likes us mentality is nonsense. Pay they stay, whether in Buffalo, Green Bay or NY or Miami. Very few players live in the city they play in year around anyway. Gilmore is good, but 15 million good? Nah. Nobody is in today's NFL. Rather they spend that coin on a couple other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't want Gilmore for the $14-$15M per year. I think another team flush with cash will give it to him, though. He's a good player, but he's not an amazing, difference maker type player and for $15M a year, you better be getting a game changer, which he is not. Â I'd let him walk and make sure you lock in a 3rd round compensatory pick by not signing more FA's than we lose. His contract will likely be large enough to award us a 3rd round comp in 2018. If you thought you could franchise him and then trade him to another team for a 2nd or 3rd round pick this year that would also be worth looking into. Is there some team out there that would be willing to send us a 2017 3rd round pick for Gilmore and also give him a brand new, rich contract? Perhaps, but the risk you run there is that nobody wants to trade for him and you have to pay him the franchise # in 2017. Not a horrible scenario, but if the Bills don't think he's worth $14-$15M per year K think they're more likely to just let him walk and bank the 2018 3rd round comp. pick. Let's just hope Whaley isn't dumb enough to sign more FA's than we lose thus costing us the 3rd round comp. pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) With a large signing bonus spread over 5 years , his 1st year salary could be very low to fit the cap space.  or  2016 tag Projected franchise tag Cornerback $13,952,000 $14,297,000 Note: Projections assume 2017 salary cap is $168 million. Buffalo Bills cornerback Stephon Gilmore seemed destined for a franchise tag prior to the start of season. It seems unnecessary now since he has been struggling with inconsistency this season. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-the-11-nfl-standouts-likely-to-get-the-dreaded-franchise-tag/ Edited January 30, 2017 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think they will tag him They should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yeah, this insecure, nobody likes us mentality is nonsense. Pay they stay, whether in Buffalo, Green Bay or NY or Miami. Very few players live in the city they play in year around anyway. Gilmore is good, but 15 million good? Nah. Nobody is in today's NFL. Rather they spend that coin on a couple other players. If they let him go and spend money on other teams' players they will not get the 3rd round comp pick. If they let him go and resign their own players they would. I think that might be the better path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Transition tag. I think that often ends the worst- no compensation even as a compensatory pick then, I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 And they were right on many of them if they did. Most fans felt Byrd was overpaid and not worth resigning. Levitre was massively overpaid for a guard as a FA . The consensus was that Glenn and Hughes should be kept or at least a good attempt made to retain. Jason Peters was not an UFA, he was traded. These situations weren't at all like Gilmore, so you're generalizing too much. Gilmore isn't liked by a lot of fans , mostly due to his lack of fiery play and shying away from the physical parts of the game. He also doesn't make a lot of game changing plays . So it's not surprising many fans feel he should be allowed to walk in FA and replaced by a less expensive player. He's not a pass rusher, QB, or LT so he's a good candidate to be replaced by a less expensive draft pick or FA . You may disagree but FA requires teams to lose some players. A CB isn't getting this team to the playoffs. Â Some fans perhaps. Many of us like the Bills to retain critical players; guys will get paid. But a team has to decide WHO to pay at FA time and many fans feel he isn't the kind of CB that you would pay at that juncture. You can't keep all of them. Feeling that the team should let Gilmore walk is fine; banging the all-too-familiar drum that he doesn't want to be here is silly IMO. Â As to the previous examples, if Peters was traded, and Evans, Johnson, Wood, Hughes, and Glenn all re-signed long term deals in Buffalo, then I would argue that fans were quite literally proven wrong about the majority of those guys "not wanting to be here". Â As others have said (and I'm sure you know--you're a good poster), it's simply a money issue. If Gilmore gets a number he's happy with he'll re-sign. If he doesn't he'll hit the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Transition tag. Â Just to check my understanding - that guarantees him the average of the top 10 CBs rather than top 5 under the franchise tag, but allows other teams to make him offers whilst retaining the Bills ability to keep him by matching those offers - correct? Â If my understanding is right then this feels like a reasonable place for the Bills to start. Edited January 30, 2017 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Losing Gilmore would be a very big setback. He's a top 10 CB in this league and really the only bright spot currently in the Bills' secondary. But, you know, carry on...... Â That's like admiring the prettiest turd in the grass at the dog run... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Â Just to check my understanding - that guarantees him the average of the top 10 CBs rather than top 5 under the franchise tag, but allows other teams to make him offers whilst retaining the Bills ability to keep him by matching those offers - correct? Â If my understanding is right then this feels like a reasonable place for the Bills to start. issue with the tranny tag imo is that if another team makes offer the Bills can't or won't match, and he leaves, the Bills do not get a comp pick. Otoh I believe the Bills can pull the tranny tag if they sense that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've been around a lot of athletes and think that the "don't want to be here thing is way overblown." It's kind of one of those Buffalo insecurity things. They don't care where they play as long as they are paid. They don't have to live anywhere full-time, they can travel quite a bit and social media has made the world smaller. It may have been a big factor 15 years ago or whenever but it is less so now. Â As long as they are being paid, work in an environment where their family and friends are treated well they really don't care. If you want to force a player out, deny his family and friends access. That's one of the main reasons that LeBron went back to Cleveland. If you start pissing off their inner circle the player won't be too happy. Â agreed...nicely put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 issue with the tranny tag imo is that if another team makes offer the Bills can't or won't match, and he leaves, the Bills do not get a comp pick. Otoh I believe the Bills can pull the tranny tag if they sense that will happen. Â Ah okay. Cheers Yolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 you should have seen the pictures with his family at diseny land. his face was the exact same  its hard to believe but its just who he is.  After standing in line with my kid for an hour at the Dumbo ride my facial expression was just like this too.  Gilmore is gone. Honestly I'm good with that. I think the market will over pay.  Bye bye Stephon He matches up well on Beckham jr. beat him to the spot in the probowl Nobody is really trying that hard at the ProBowl.  As for the "he's not very good" crowd, well, go check the "shadow" thread--I promise he's right up there with the elites in terms of both coverage skill and tackle numbers. While you are checking the stats can you take a look at missed tackles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Â While you are checking the stats can you take a look at missed tackles as well. Â I think I've more than held up my end of the bargain stat-wise: Â http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/191433-gilmore-the-shadow-knows/page-9?do=findComment&comment=4234493 Â If someone wants to spend their time digging up missed tackle numbers so that they can use that one metric to attempt to marginalize his ability as a player, then more power to them. Edited January 30, 2017 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Â I think I've more than held up my end of the bargain stat-wise: Â http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/191433-gilmore-the-shadow-knows/page-9?do=findComment&comment=4234493 Â If you want to spend your time digging up missed tackle numbers so that you can use that one metric to attempt to marginalize his ability as a player, then go for it. Â PFF are one of the few places that I'm aware of that track missed tackles. Gilmore missed less than Darby by their stats, playing more snaps than Darby too. (Amendment: Darby & Gilmore both had 8 missed tackles. An error on my part.) Â Corey Graham had double digit missed tackles. Edited January 30, 2017 by Blokestradamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) This is the type of tough decision that a lot of franchises face. The Chiefs, for example, may have to choose between Dontari Poe and Eric Berry. The Bills have had these decisions before, Winfield, Byrd, Hughes, Glenn, etc... You aren't cheap if you let the guy go and you didn't overpay if he stayed. You use the market as the guide to a contract structure and your evaluation of the player's ability and scheme fit to determine a value. If you can get him in that target range, you keep him, if not, he leaves. Edited January 30, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 One can only imagine his "state of mind"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Gilmore like 99% of all NFL players wants to be wherever he is paid the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited)  After standing in line with my kid for an hour at the Dumbo ride my facial expression was just like this too.  Gilmore is gone. Honestly I'm good with that. I think the market will over pay.  Bye bye Stephon  Nobody is really trying that hard at the ProBowl.   LORAX DISAGREES just on the last bit. Also I'm happy with buffalo paying 14 mil for a db if his last name is Berry Edited January 30, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 That is a good target. I think that he pushes $15M. Tagging him is certainly an option but would leave the Bills pretty thin on cap space. I think he is gone, Kirby. $12M will fill a few holes. IMO Gilmore is replaceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 This is the type of tough decision that a lot of franchises face. The Chiefs, for example, may have to choose between Dontari Poe and Eric Berry. The Bills have had these decisions before, Winfield, Byrd, Hughes, Glenn, etc... You aren't cheap if you let the guy go and you didn't overpay if he stayed. You use the market as the guide to a contract structure and your evaluation of the player's ability and scheme fit to determine a value. If you can get him in that target range, you keep him, if not, he leaves. I hope the Chiefs chose Poe and we pay Barry- Gilmore's money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's all about the mooolah! Pay him, he's happy. Just like Shady. shady is top 5 at his position I could argue he's 1st...Gilmore is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I hope the Chiefs chose Poe and we pay Barry- Gilmore's money That has definitely crossed my mind too I think he is gone, Kirby. $12M will fill a few holes. IMO Gilmore is replaceable. I don't necessarily disagree. Gilmore is going to be a fascinating situation to watch because it seems like a legitimately tough situation IMO. Sometimes, I am like "let him go" or "keep him at all costs." With Gilmore I honestly could go either way depending on the contract. At $12M I think that I would keep him, at $15M I probably wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I would let Gilmore go. I would rebuild from the bottom up and do everything in my power to solve the QB issue first. Â Teams that have a very good or better QB then add pieces to the puzzle. Â Until we get a Top 15 QB, nothing is changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 More attempts to cope with letting a very good player walk. Letting Gilmore walk because of money would be a very Ralph Wilson era esque move, IMO. So letting a player walk because of money means the owner is cheap? Every team has decisions to make on FAs and this is no different . The Bills can pay the money, Pegs can afford the bonus. Doesn't mean the player's actual value is what he will get on the FA market just because his deal happens to be up. There's nothing to " cope" with. Many fans don't want the Bills to keep Gilmore as they just don't think his style of play and what he brings to the table are worth the cost. This is the design and result of FA. The guy who is available tends to get overpaid by another team, it doesn't mean it's worth the cost to his original team. No team keeps all of its FA's and Gilmore isn't some beloved Bill that fans can't stand to see go. No coping needed here. Just a business decision for player and team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Gilmore deserves to go and get the most money he can. Whaley has had a great track record of getting value and quality at the CB position. Yes, the CB's didn't look great under the Ryan bros. regime, but they should rebound under Leslie's scheme. Gilmore goes, opens up money for LORAX and others. It pains me to say it, love Carpenter, but he should be gone opening up cap room. Â Overall, it will be interesting to see what transpires in the next 3 months. Pretty excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Letting a top corner in the league walk and then using a first round pick to replace him is the typical Ralph Wilson era strategy. They have the cap and IMO you don't just let a good corner walk in today's NFL. You do if you have to pay him like a great corner. I wouldn't necessarily replace him with a 1st round pick, though that would cost less. They could replace him with a FA as well. There are different strategies . The Ralph Wilson years were sometimes defined by his unwillingness to pay the upfront bonus and that's just not the issue here. It's just one of value for money. They can do just as well or better. He's simply the guy you replace when the time comes for the big payday. Hasn't earned it and not worth it overall. That has definitely crossed my mind too I don't necessarily disagree. Gilmore is going to be a fascinating situation to watch because it seems like a legitimately tough situation IMO. Sometimes, I am like "let him go" or "keep him at all costs." With Gilmore I honestly could go either way depending on the contract. At $12M I think that I would keep him, at $15M I probably wouldn't. Right, he's not a " keep at all costs " player. He has a value that the Bills likely have already set. It will be interesting because we simply don't know. Gilmore doesn't strike me as one who will take a bit less before hitting FA such as J Hughes. I think he most likely walks because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't think he really wants to stay here. Listening to his interviews , he doesn't seem to have much spark for the team thing. Look at him at the pro bowl. Didn't blend in with our guys at all. He is good but no 15m good. He will go with the money and end up happy and play just ok for his new team as so many have done before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 That has definitely crossed my mind too  I don't necessarily disagree. Gilmore is going to be a fascinating situation to watch because it seems like a legitimately tough situation IMO. Sometimes, I am like "let him go" or "keep him at all costs." With Gilmore I honestly could go either way depending on the contract. At $12M I think that I would keep him, at $15M I probably wouldn't. I know you know football and McDermott's defense. You have to admit berry would be nice but has less value than Gilmore to this defense. A man press corner is something that he could very much benefit by having with Darby able to play outside zone, cover 3 and cover 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 he'd probably be happier with one of the teams in the southeast since he's from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 he'd probably be happier with one of the teams in the southeast since he's from there I think he signs with the Dolphins this offseason, just a gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Â After standing in line with my kid for an hour at the Dumbo ride my facial expression was just like this too. Â Gilmore is gone. Honestly I'm good with that. I think the market will over pay. Â Bye bye Stephon Nobody is really trying that hard at the ProBowl. While you are checking the stats can you take a look at missed tackles as well. He held him in check in 2015 too, I think Odell only had like 38yds receiving on 5 catches (12 targets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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