NFL MVP

[TheWeatherMan]

4 hours ago, 90sBills said:

No. No he’s not. Guess that’s why he’ll be playing in his fourth Superbowl this Sunday. 

Allen under Reid would have 4SBs and multiple MVPs.  The fact that Allen has accomplished unprecedented QB numbers with a defensive (if you can even say that) HC and 3 rookie OC’s (1 okay, 1 awful and 1 TBD) is nothing short of amazing.  
 

I concur with @Blackbeards assessment.  

[Albany,n.y.]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

If Lamar wins it will be the second time he has won it over Josh with half the stats.  Does anyone actually buy Lamar as MVP?

Come On Man!

Here's the real story.  Lamar won it in 2019 & his stats towered over Josh on paper.

Lamar 2019:

66.1% comp %, 36 TDs 9INTs, QB rating 83.0, 1206 rushing yards, 7 TDs.

Josh 2019 

58.8 comp %, 20 TDs, 9 INTs, QB rating 49.4, 510 rushing yards, 9 TDs 

[90sBills]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I mean, I see your point about Mahomes as it's hard to argue he's not #1 now.

 

But it is a team sport and personally I'm not a fan of judging players just by championships.

 

Does Mahomes go to 4 super bowls without one of the greatest head coaches and tight ends of all time?

Not too mention other hall of famers he has played with. (Hill, Chris jones)

 

(And even an all time clutch DC in Spags)

I agree that it takes a team to win championships. QBs have so much control over their teams’ results that they should get a lot of the credit and criticisms. With his talent I do think Mahomes would be successful no matter where he went.

 

Allen is a great qb. I think he’s number 2 in the NFL. He’s perfect for the Bills. But we can’t make statements that are objectively not true. Especially when him and the Bills keep failing every year and to the same teams. Let’s have some semblance of objectivity.

 

[CDogg20]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

If Lamar wins it will be the second time he has won it over Josh with half the stats.  Does anyone actually buy Lamar as MVP?

I am a firm believer that Lamar is NOT a good quarterback. I’ve never seen anything that pops aside from his running ability 

[90sBills]

16 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Allen under Reid would have 4SBs and multiple MVPs.  The fact that Allen has accomplished unprecedented QB numbers with a defensive (if you can even say that) HC and 3 rookie OC’s (1 okay, 1 awful and 1 TBD) is nothing short of amazing.  
 

I concur with @Blackbeards assessment.  

Sure he would. The only thing some of us Bills fans can do in this discussions is throw out hypotheticals while in reality it’s playoffs failures year after year.
 

Allen could’ve helped himself this year in the divisional. It was the perfect opportunity to change the narrative against Mahomes and KC. When it came down to the pivotal moment he made a bad decision. So the narrative will continue whether some like it or not. 

[Jauronimo]

34 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Come On Man!

Here's the real story.  Lamar won it in 2019 & his stats towered over Josh on paper.

Lamar 2019:

66.1% comp %, 36 TDs 9INTs, QB rating 83.0, 1206 rushing yards, 7 TDs.

Josh 2019 

58.8 comp %, 20 TDs, 9 INTs, QB rating 49.4, 510 rushing yards, 9 TDs 

I worded it poorly but Josh will have had two seasons significantly better than either of Lamar's MVP seasons with nothing to show for it.

[julian]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

No. No he’s not. Guess that’s why he’ll be playing in his fourth Superbowl this Sunday. 

And if he wins he’s still one ring behind Bradshaw

[Utah John]

The Bills were on national TV all season long, and fans got to see Josh play many times.  Unfortunately while he did play very well WB (with Brady), it's the stinkers he had DD (during Dorsey) that people will remember.  Josh really played below his standards against the Jets in the opener, against the Jags in London, against the Pats in that inexcusable loss, and against the Broncos in the 12-men game.  The only time the Bills lost when he played well was the OT game against the Eagles.  The four losses were not completely attributable to Josh's poor play, but it's natural to point to those four games.  Almost a quarter of the season. I don't think Josh's great play in the other 13 games makes up for those four.  

[cle23]

4 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Huntley ran the Ravens offense at the end of last year and was a fumble away from winning the wild card game.

 

Huntley had a QBR of 42 last year. He did play decent in the playoff game, but also had 2 turnovers,  1 of which was returned for a TD. My point was,  if he starts 17 games,  the Ravens are likely 5-12ish. He averaged 131 yards passing in 5 regular season games in 2022. 

[julian]

4800+ yards 44 TDs division title and some fans believing this isn’t an MVP worthy season lol.

 

 Man we’ve come along ways in Buffalo when this season is considered a down year for a Bills QB

 

simply amazing.

[BananaB]

Josh’s only negative is the turnovers. Let’s be honest though, if Lamar or Mahomes had Allen’s stats they’d be the clear cut MVP by the media. There would be no discussion at all.  Media doesn’t focus on Josh’s accomplishments all they do is focus on his negative plays. Proven by the last game, everybody ranted on about Josh gotta do more when he walked off the field he had them fg range to tie. 4 times this season ge walked off the field in the last 2 minutes ahead or tied and the D managed to lose the game. Not one analyst ever mentions that. Brutal 

Edited February 7 by BananaB

[90sBills]

4 minutes ago, julian said:

And if he wins he’s still one ring behind Bradshaw

And 3 rings ahead of Allen/Burrow/Lamar combined. All irrelevant facts. What’s your point? 

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Its basically the "QB on the team with the best regular season record" award at this point.

which is probably the mvp like 70-80% of the time…. But does take the fun out of it

[SaulGoodman]

3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I mean, I see your point about Mahomes as it's hard to argue he's not #1 now.

 

But it is a team sport and personally I'm not a fan of judging players just by championships.

 

Does Mahomes go to 4 super bowls without one of the greatest head coaches and tight ends of all time?

Not too mention other hall of famers he has played with. (Hill, Chris jones)

 

(And even an all time clutch DC in Spags)

I’ll never understand this narrative that Allen’s carrying a bunch of nobodies. That narrative is closer to true for Mahomes the last two years (especially as Kelce’s beginning to slow down a bit). 
 

Allen’s had one of the best WRs in the game for several years and has two good TEs. Plus a very good RB and solid OL. Davis and Shakir aren’t chopped liver either. 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

I’ll never understand this narrative that Allen’s carrying a bunch of nobodies. That narrative is closer to true for Mahomes the last two years (especially as Kelce’s beginning to slow down a bit). 
 

Allen’s had one of the best WRs in the game for several years and has two good TEs. Plus a very good RB and solid OL. Davis and Shakir aren’t chopped liver either. 

Knox- average TE

Gabe- poor WR2

Diggs- was elite-  finished the season as an average WR2

Shakir- up and coming good slot WR.  

 

OL, Kincaid and cook are good-  cook also dropped 3 wide open TDs and his fumbles

contributed to losses.  oVs had no clue how to use Kincaid.  

 

Sherfield and Harty stunk.

 

Dorsey stunk

Brady 🤷🏻‍♂️  maybe, maybe not.  
 

He wasn’t working with that much

[SaulGoodman]

3 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Allen under Reid would have 4SBs and multiple MVPs.  The fact that Allen has accomplished unprecedented QB numbers with a defensive (if you can even say that) HC and 3 rookie OC’s (1 okay, 1 awful and 1 TBD) is nothing short of amazing.  
 

I concur with @Blackbeards assessment.  

From 0 SBs/MVPs to 6 just by replacing McD with Reid? Seems like a bit of a stretch. Especially if he also had mediocre/bad defense every year but one, or the receivers Mahomes has been working with the last two seasons. 

[HappyDays]

8 hours ago, 90sBills said:

No. No he’s not. Guess that’s why he’ll be playing in his fourth Superbowl this Sunday. 

 

The Chiefs defense gave up 41 points in 3 playoff games. The Bills defense gave up 44 points in 2 playoff games. That's why Mahomes is playing in the Super Bowl instead of Allen.

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Chiefs defense gave up 41 points in 3 playoff games. The Bills defense gave up 44 points in 2 playoff games. That's why Mahomes is playing in the Super Bowl instead of Allen.

Josh had a drive to win that game.  Mahomes simply gets it done in that situation, we can make all the excuses we want.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

I’ll never understand this narrative that Allen’s carrying a bunch of nobodies. That narrative is closer to true for Mahomes the last two years (especially as Kelce’s beginning to slow down a bit). 
 

Allen’s had one of the best WRs in the game for several years and has two good TEs. Plus a very good RB and solid OL. Davis and Shakir aren’t chopped liver either. 

Gabe Davis? lol..

 

You are missing two massive factors here

 

Chiefs o line, and Andy Reid.

 

Bills o line was finally descent this year.

 

But McDermott doesn't come even close to Andy Reid and chiefs o line has been top 5 (at least) in football the last 4-5 years.

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

Josh Allen is the ONLY player in the NFL who can take over a game. 

 

He's the ONLY one who seemingly risks life and limb in games.  

 

He's a grinder more than anyone. 

 

He's due.  He's the MVP!!!

The other QB in the Super Bowl would agree to disagree.  Mahomes and Josh are the two best QBs in the NFL

[Warcodered]

24 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Josh had a drive to win that game.  Mahomes simply gets it done in that situation, we can make all the excuses we want.

Mahomes kicker made the kick from slightly closer, that's the only difference between them in that game.

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Mahomes kicker made the kick from slightly closer, that's the only difference between them in that game.

Allen wastes his time golfing, when he could be learning to kick. 

[julian]

3 hours ago, 90sBills said:

And 3 rings ahead of Allen/Burrow/Lamar combined. All irrelevant facts. What’s your point? 

You just made it.. again lol

[SaulGoodman]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Gabe Davis? lol..

 

You are missing two massive factors here

 

Chiefs o line, and Andy Reid.

 

Bills o line was finally descent this year.

 

But McDermott doesn't come even close to Andy Reid and chiefs o line has been top 5 (at least) in football the last 4-5 years.

The fact that you snicker at Gabe Davis says it all. Here’s a guy who averaged almost 100 yds/game in the playoffs in four games from ‘21-‘22, with 6 TDs. I guarantee that KC would have welcomed him with open arms the last two years. Hell, he would have been the best WR on the team until Rice’s emergence recently. 
 

I’m not saying that Allen’s supporting cast has been absolutely loaded, but how many QBs have that? Not most. 
 

Mahomes’ SB-winning teams are #1 and #2 in postseason points allowed in history. I’m willing to bet that the 3rd string OL he played behind in SB 55 was the worst line ever brought to the big game. He hasn’t had a true #1 WR for two years. His receivers led the league in drops by a mile this year. He’s never had a great running game and for years it was non-existent. The offensive tackles haven’t been very good for two years, and run-blocking hasn’t been good for several years. It was dead last in the NFL a few years ago. 

 

Have you noticed that Reid transformed from guy who was fired in Philly, and widely ridiculed by fans all over the country, to unrivaled wizard—as soon as Mahomes entered the league?

 

I just think the narratives of Mahomes having everything and Allen having nothing are way off the mark. 

[machine gun kelly]

21 hours ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

Is Baltimore in the Superbowl?

Did anything believe the Ravens would be in the SB??

Nope

MVP and the other awards are voted on after the regular season.  So many misunderstand as the playoffs has nothing to do with it.  Lamar deserves it for his season.

[HOUSE]

23 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

MVP and the other awards are voted on after the regular season.  So many misunderstand as the playoffs has nothing to do with it.  Lamar deserves it for his season.

To me the MVP gets his team to the BIG dance. So it would be Mahomes, Kelce, McCaffery or Purdy

[GunnerBill]

The voting is done at the same time as all pro voting I believe and then they just hold the MVP announcement for their silly over the top honours thing. 

[BillsFan130]

14 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I agree that it takes a team to win championships. QBs have so much control over their teams’ results that they should get a lot of the credit and criticisms. With his talent I do think Mahomes would be successful no matter where he went.

 

Allen is a great qb. I think he’s number 2 in the NFL. He’s perfect for the Bills. But we can’t make statements that are objectively not true. Especially when him and the Bills keep failing every year and to the same teams. Let’s have some semblance of objectivity.

 

Lamar will prob have 2 mvps and Josh has 0- does that mean he's objectively better than Josh?

 

Eli has 2 rings, Josh has 0. Does that mean he's objectively better than Josh?

 

Brock Purdy has been to a SB and is in the mvp race- is he objectively better than Josh?

 

Got to be a bit careful when you just look at "objective" things as it doesn't tell the whole story at all. It is a complete team game

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 hours ago, Chaos said:

Allen wastes his time golfing, when he could be learning to kick. 

Definitely a 'Goofus', when he could be a 'Gallant'. 🤨

*
Josh Allen needs to study the career and success of Frank Gifford.  Except, I think he effed up by selecting Kathie Lee. 🤔

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

The fact that you snicker at Gabe Davis says it all. Here’s a guy who averaged almost 100 yds/game in the playoffs in four games from ‘21-‘22, with 6 TDs. I guarantee that KC would have welcomed him with open arms the last two years. Hell, he would have been the best WR on the team until Rice’s emergence recently. 
 

I’m not saying that Allen’s supporting cast has been absolutely loaded, but how many QBs have that? Not most. 
 

Mahomes’ SB-winning teams are #1 and #2 in postseason points allowed in history. I’m willing to bet that the 3rd string OL he played behind in SB 55 was the worst line ever brought to the big game. He hasn’t had a true #1 WR for two years. His receivers led the league in drops by a mile this year. He’s never had a great running game and for years it was non-existent. The offensive tackles haven’t been very good for two years, and run-blocking hasn’t been good for several years. It was dead last in the NFL a few years ago. 

 

Have you noticed that Reid transformed from guy who was fired in Philly, and widely ridiculed by fans all over the country, to unrivaled wizard—as soon as Mahomes entered the league?

 

I just think the narratives of Mahomes having everything and Allen having nothing are way off the mark. 

The fact that you don’t snicker about Gabe Davis says it all. He’s the epitome of a JAG.  He’s. The guy has had 5 good games in 4 years with Josh Allen throwing (and sometimes forcing) him the ball.  
 

All pro and heavily paid tredavious- injured basically misses 2 seasons

 

all pro and heavily paid Von Miller-  injured and basically misses 2 seasons.

 

all pro and heavily paid Matt Milano- injured and misses and entire season.

 

How many all pro and heavily paid players has Kclost due to injury since Mahomes has been winning SBs?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

MVP and the other awards are voted on after the regular season.  So many misunderstand as the playoffs has nothing to do with it.  Lamar deserves it for his season.

Correct.  The only thing lacking is that all candidates should be required to dress in costume, and sing a song on 'The Masked Singer - NFL - MVP' special.

🤔

[BillsFan130]

7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

The fact that you snicker at Gabe Davis says it all. Here’s a guy who averaged almost 100 yds/game in the playoffs in four games from ‘21-‘22, with 6 TDs. I guarantee that KC would have welcomed him with open arms the last two years. Hell, he would have been the best WR on the team until Rice’s emergence recently. 
 

I’m not saying that Allen’s supporting cast has been absolutely loaded, but how many QBs have that? Not most. 
 

Mahomes’ SB-winning teams are #1 and #2 in postseason points allowed in history. I’m willing to bet that the 3rd string OL he played behind in SB 55 was the worst line ever brought to the big game. He hasn’t had a true #1 WR for two years. His receivers led the league in drops by a mile this year. He’s never had a great running game and for years it was non-existent. The offensive tackles haven’t been very good for two years, and run-blocking hasn’t been good for several years. It was dead last in the NFL a few years ago. 

 

Have you noticed that Reid transformed from guy who was fired in Philly, and widely ridiculed by fans all over the country, to unrivaled wizard—as soon as Mahomes entered the league?

 

I just think the narratives of Mahomes having everything and Allen having nothing are way off the mark. 

Let's keep it super simple:

 

How many hall of famers has Mahomes played with? Hill, Andy Reid, Kelce, Chris jones at a minimum? So 4.

 

And those guys all come up massive in big games for the chiefs.

 

Josh? 0...

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Let's keep it super simple:

 

How many hall of famers has Mahomes played with? Hill, Andy Reid, Kelce, Chris jones at a minimum? So 4.

 

And those guys all come up massive in big games for the chiefs.

 

Josh? 0...

 

That is fair. The Bills have not had enough elite players. 

[Gregg]

Wait until next year when Stroud or Herbert wins it over Allen. Probably get to a Super Bowl first with Ryans or Harbaugh as well. That would be our luck.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

MVP and the other awards are voted on after the regular season.  So many misunderstand as the playoffs has nothing to do with it.  Lamar deserves it for his season.

 

 

How exactly does he deserve it? I just find it funny that the group think is that Lamar is the obvious choice for MVP. One of the least deserving statistical QB's we've ever seen in the running for the award. His team had a heck of a year. In his biggest game of the year, the one that cemented his MVP, his defense intercepted the 49ers QB's a combined 5 times. The Ravens would have won that game with Huntley. The next week Lamar has a perfect passer rating against the Dolphins. Something JA did in week 4 as well.  

 

I'm fine with Lamar being a finalist, but no way should he win in what I suspect will be a landslide where he ends up getting like 90% of the vote share. This should be one of the closets votes in NFL MVP history. But for some reason it probably won't be. 

 

I think we have to go back decades to find a statistically worst MVP winner than 2023 Lamar. 

 

All I have to say is, I don't care if Allen reverts back to his 2019 season in terms of numbers, if the Bills ever finish with the top overall record in the league the voters better give the man the MVP. 

[VaMilBill]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Lamar will prob have 2 mvps and Josh has 0- does that mean he's objectively better than Josh?

I don’t think anyone, outside of Baltimore fans, would rather have Lamar as their QB than Josh.  To me it’s pretty clear that Josh is the second best QB in the nfl behind Mahomes. Once Josh starts beating Mahomes in playoffs and getting some hardware we can reevaluate that comparison. But Lamar belongs nowhere near this conversation 

[Captain Hindsight]

11 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

How exactly does he deserve it? I just find it funny that the group think is that Lamar is the obvious choice for MVP. One of the least deserving statistical QB's we've ever seen in the running for the award. His team had a heck of a year. In his biggest game of the year, the one that cemented his MVP, his defense intercepted the 49ers QB's a combined 5 times. The Ravens would have won that game with Huntley. The next week Lamar has a perfect passer rating against the Dolphins. Something JA did in week 4 as well.  

 

I'm fine with Lamar being a finalist, but no way should he win in what I suspect will be a landslide where he ends up getting like 90% of the vote share. This should be one of the closets votes in NFL MVP history. But for some reason it probably won't be. 

 

I think we have to go back decades to find a statistically worst MVP winner than 2023 Lamar. 

 

All I have to say is, I don't care if Allen reverts back to his 2019 season in terms of numbers, if the Bills ever finish with the top overall record in the league the voters better give the man the MVP. 

The last time a QB won with less than 30 TDs was 2008 

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

The fact that you don’t snicker about Gabe Davis says it all. He’s the epitome of a JAG.  He’s. The guy has had 5 good games in 4 years with Josh Allen throwing (and sometimes forcing) him the ball.  
 

All pro and heavily paid tredavious- injured basically misses 2 seasons

 

all pro and heavily paid Von Miller-  injured and basically misses 2 seasons.

 

all pro and heavily paid Matt Milano- injured and misses and entire season.

 

How many all pro and heavily paid players has Kclost due to injury since Mahomes has been winning SBs?

 

A better question is how many all pros has Mahomes had on defense to lose? He's never had an above average defense before this year. 

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Let's keep it super simple:

 

How many hall of famers has Mahomes played with? Hill, Andy Reid, Kelce, Chris jones at a minimum? So 4.

 

And those guys all come up massive in big games for the chiefs.

 

Josh? 0...

 

Von Miller? Diggs, Tre White and others might eventually have a case too. 

 

Chris Jones is borderline. He has some work to do. 

 

Over the last two years, I'd say each QB has had one surefire HOFer on his roster. Kelce and Von Miller. Miller wasn't in his prime this year but Kelce wasn't either. 

 

It's fair to say that Mahomes had a big advantage in offensive talent in his first few years, but he definitely hasn't the last few years. And when the offensive talent was great, the defense wasn't very good. 

[DrBob806]

9 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

 

Have you noticed that Reid transformed from guy who was fired in Philly, and widely ridiculed by fans all over the country, to unrivaled wizard—as soon as Mahomes entered the league?

 

I just think the narratives of Mahomes having everything and Allen having nothing are way off the mark. 

I've been an NFL fan since 1970, and Mahomes is the best I've seen so far. Just my $0.02