Joe Brady Officially Promoted as Bills OC!

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

I just don't think the evidence on the field over the last several weeks of the regular season and the two games in the postseason match the notion that McDermott is "conservative" or wants the Bills to play a safe, no-risk offense.

Once upon a time, I may have agreed with that statement. But McDermott's coaching has evolved tremendously, and his aggressiveness along with it. Everything that goes with the idea of being an aggressive (rather than conservative) coach, McDermott has been doing from midseason on. He's constantly near the top of the "goes for it on 4th down when he should" charts. He's been going for it on 4th down on his own side of the field, even early in games, quite often. He has overseen an offense that for four straight years now is near the top of the league in passing frequency. He himself said in his season ending press conference that he believes you pass to win in this league. 

Yes, at times he's mentioned wanting to run the ball more effectively and to stop turning the ball over. I don't think either of those qualify as "conservative" thinking, though. I think 32 out of 32 NFL head coaches want their team to run the ball effectively and to take care of the football. And as I said, there's a time I would have agreed with the "McDermott is a conservative coach" idea, but that time has passed. All the evidence on the field in recent weeks simply does not back it up any longer. He's become pretty damned aggressive in his approach. And mind you, I'm no McDermott apologist. After the Broncos game, I wanted him fired. I'm STILL not convinced he's the right man for the job long term. But fair is fair, and to continue to call McDermott a conservative coach who wants to play it safe no longer feels fair or, for that matter, accurate.

Yeah people keep saying McDermott wants to run all the time because he was always talking about needing to run better, because we needed to be able to run better for such a long time.

[Peter]

I will leave this here for your enjoyment:

 

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, Peter said:

I will leave this here for your enjoyment:

 

The move from Dorsey to Brady has to be one of the weirdest things I've ever witnessed in football. Specifically:

All of the analytics favored Dorsey, but if you watched his offense in real time, you saw a lack of logical sequencing, layering, and a general lack of feel for the game. You saw an offense that got stuck in neutral too often, did illogical things, became stale for long stretches, and ultimately failed to score enough points on a consistent basis.

Meanwhile, all of the analytics took a dip once Brady came aboard. Pretty much any notable measure of success from an analytics standpoint was WORSE under Brady than Dorsey. And yet, if you watched the offense under Brady as compared to Dorsey, you suddenly saw a plan, a logic, the aforementioned sequencing and layering, better organization, streamlining of the playbook, greater offensive consistency, and ultimately, more points being scored on a more consistent basis. 

Ken Dorsey was an analytics darling as a playcaller, but in the "real world" of football, the offense often seemed broken and basic.

Joe Brady was NOT so much of an analytics darling, and analytics guys will insist that the Bills offense got "worse" under him, but in the "real world" of football, the offense suddenly seemed to work better, more often, and more consistently.

Absolutely bizarre. I can't explain it, but I CAN tell you what my eyes saw very clearly: the offense seemed to clearly work better and be more productive and consistent under Joe Brady.

 

Edited January 29 by Logic

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, Logic said:

The move from Dorsey to Brady has to be one of the weirdest things I've ever witnessed in football. Specifically:

All of the analytics favored Dorsey, but if you watched his offense in real time, you saw a lack of logical sequencing, layering, and a general lack of feel for the game. You saw an offense that got stuck in neutral too often, did illogical things, became stale for long stretches, and ultimately failed to score enough points on a consistent basis.

Meanwhile, all of the analytics took a dip once Brady came aboard. Pretty much any notable measure of success from an analytics standpoint was WORSE under Brady than Dorsey. And yet, if you watched the offense under Brady as compared to Dorsey, you suddenly saw a plan, a logic, the aforementioned sequencing and layering, better organization, streamlining of the playbook, greater offensive consistency, and ultimately, more points being scored on a more consistent basis. 

Ken Dorsey was an analytics darling as a playcaller, but in the "real world" of football, the offense often seemed broken and basic.

Joe Brady was NOT so much of an analytics darling, and analytics guys will insist that the Bills offense got "worse" under him, but in the "real world" of football, the offense suddenly seemed to work better, more often, and more consistently.

Absolutely bizarre. I can't explain it, but I CAN tell you what my eyes saw very clearly: the offense seemed to clearly work better and be more productive and consistent under Joe Brady.

 

Yeah we watched the Offense grind to a halt with Dorsey, it was getting ridiculously aggravating we got to the point where we were begging them to just go 2-minute no huddle just let Josh do it because that was the only thing that ever worked.

 

Brady took over and things started to move again.

[Spiderweb]

The only area that gives serious concern about was the reduced passing game, which with improved running game should have also been more effective.

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah we watched the Offense grind to a halt with Dorsey, it was getting ridiculously aggravating we got to the point where we were begging them to just go 2-minute no huddle just let Josh do it because that was the only thing that ever worked.

 

Brady took over and things started to move again.

Honestly it was a lesson to me going forward that I should take analytics with a big grain of salt.

The analytics all said our offense was top three to top five under Dorsey, but reality showed that it was broken and stale.

The analytics all said our offense got worse under Brady, but reality showed that it started moving and working again, and the Bills started scoring more points and winning football games.

Big grain of salt.

Edited January 29 by Logic

[TheyCallMeAndy]

22 minutes ago, Peter said:

I will leave this here for your enjoyment:

 

He conveniently left out the 2 playoff games. 

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Honestly it was a lesson to me going forward that I should take analytics with a big grain of salt.

The analytics all said our offense was top three to top five under Dorsey, but reality showed that it was broken and stale.

The analytics all said our offense got worse under Brady, but reality showed that it started moving and working again, and the Bills started scoring more points and winning football games.

Big grain of salt.

For sure. Honestly I think for a new guy to take over the offense and NOT have there be a big dip is pretty good. 

[PayDaBill$]

Give this guy a chance to come up with his own wrinkles, he was pretty much hamstrung with the existing playbook. I assume he’ll now have time to devise a more plays to scheme receivers open.

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Josh Allen

Dorsey: 9 Games

350 attempts - 2660 yards - 19 TDs - 11 INT - 7 rushing TD

 

Brady: 9 Games

298 attempts - 2095 yards - 14 TDs - 7 INT - 8 rushing TD

 

James Cook

Dorsey: 9 games 

120 carries - 615 yards - 5.1 YPC

 

Brady: 9 Games

153 carries - 647 yards - 4.2 YPC 

 

Not much you can take away, also doesn’t account for weather, team, and the challenges of it not being an offense designed by Brady. 

Biggest stat missing and my big take away was 7 W’s & 2L’s vs better comp.

[MR8]

44 minutes ago, Logic said:

I just don't think the evidence on the field over the last several weeks of the regular season and the two games in the postseason match the notion that McDermott is "conservative" or wants the Bills to play a safe, no-risk offense.

Once upon a time, I may have agreed with that statement. But McDermott's coaching has evolved tremendously, and his aggressiveness along with it. Everything that goes with the idea of being an aggressive (rather than conservative) coach, McDermott has been doing from midseason on. He's constantly near the top of the "goes for it on 4th down when he should" charts. He's been going for it on 4th down on his own side of the field, even early in games, quite often. He has overseen an offense that for four straight years now is near the top of the league in passing frequency. He himself said in his season ending press conference that he believes you pass to win in this league. 

Yes, at times he's mentioned wanting to run the ball more effectively and to stop turning the ball over. I don't think either of those qualify as "conservative" thinking, though. I think 32 out of 32 NFL head coaches want their team to run the ball effectively and to take care of the football. And as I said, there's a time I would have agreed with the "McDermott is a conservative coach" idea, but that time has passed. All the evidence on the field in recent weeks simply does not back it up any longer. He's become pretty damned aggressive in his approach. And mind you, I'm no McDermott apologist. After the Broncos game, I wanted him fired. I'm STILL not convinced he's the right man for the job long term. But fair is fair, and to continue to call McDermott a conservative coach who wants to play it safe no longer feels fair or, for that matter, accurate.

 

I guess we're just on opposite sides of this situation because clearly we see the evidence showing different things.  I think the massive changes from the 2020/2021 seasons to the 2022/2023 seasons were more than just a different play caller.  It's a schematic change away from what Josh and the offensive personnel do best. 

 

Sure production is there, but you have Josh F'in Allen lol bro is SUPERMAN, you better produce lol.  He covers TONS of ills with his legs, his arm, being impossible to sack etc... when people throw out how we win and he puts up video game numbers as an endorsement of coaching, I'll throw back that Allen is an alien the likes of which we've never seen.... He was on the Ascent with Daboll, imagine how good he'd be if they crafted the offense better to him. 

 

Short outs, screens, and short routes were a staple of this offense... That's a massive change from Daboll.  McDermott said in 2022 he wanted the offense to take fewer risks... Well the OC works for him, and the seasons entire script was short low risk passing. 

 

Why does Josh always look better in the 4th quarter when the chips are down and he needs a play?  Because they let Josh be Josh ... He runs, he throws all over the field to more vertical routes, he superman's some hoes!  He goes full on Josh.   But for 3 quarters leading up to that, game in and game out for 2 years, it looks so difficult.  

 

Why has Diggs' average depth of target in dropped to below 10 yards in 10 of his past 19 games and it's over 2 yards shorter than his career avg in Buffalo?  Dumb ass bubble screens and stuff HE'S NOT DESIGNED TO DO. Dude is one of the best route runners creating separation down field and we delegated him to gadget guy. Against KC he only had 2 targets over 7 yards.... One was the deep ball and one was 15 yards down field, the other 6 were: -7, -1, 1, 4, 5, 5.... Bro, come on... Tell me this isn't conservative hold the ball use short passes like runs, and control the clock football.  That's NOT Josh Allen, it's playing conservative and frankly scared.

 

It's how the Bills play now since Daboll left.  Dorsey did it, Brady did it ... It's a schematic plan and it comes from the HC and how HE wants the game to go.  Few challenges down field, just enough to keep them honest, short high percentage passes hoping for YAC.  

 

It's what you do when you have Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB and no WRs... Not Josh Allen, Diggs, Cook, Kincaid.... 

 

But we can agree to disagree here man.  I just see a dramatic shift in offensive philosophy with how they constructed game plans, route trees, and eliminated the air raid scheme they would employ at will under Daboll. Everything looked difficult for the offense, because they're not playing to their strengths... So what are they playing to?

 

JMO I guess, but McDermott's desire to play mistake free football with field position, and let his D dominate.  Which 20 years ago with Kyle Orton sure.... But it's 2023 and you have QB1 JA17.... This scheme is a joke, not because these coaches don't know what they're doing, it because it's what the HC wants.

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

Honestly it was a lesson to me going forward that I should take analytics with a big grain of salt.

The analytics all said our offense was top three to top five under Dorsey, but reality showed that it was broken and stale.

The analytics all said our offense got worse under Brady, but reality showed that it started moving and working again, and the Bills started scoring more points and winning football games.

Big grain of salt.

 

We started winning games because our defense played much better after Brady took over. I agree the offense on the whole LOOKED better, but it wasn't really performing better than what it had under Dorsey especially after the initial bump we got from a new OC.

 

I attribute the drop in efficiency to Diggs falling off a cliff right around the time Brady took over. Dorsey got to call an offense that featured a true #1 WR. Brady did not. That factor alone would more than wipe out any potential improvement we got switching from Dorsey to Brady.

[MR8]

57 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah people keep saying McDermott wants to run all the time because he was always talking about needing to run better, because we needed to be able to run better for such a long time.

It's not that McDermott wants to just run, it's about the conservative nature of the passing game too. It's designed for short open passes to act as a running game with high percentage throws but little to no upside unless the WR makes 5 guys miss... Just go look at average depth or routes and targets dropping like stones. Diggs in the KC game is the prime example...

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, MR8 said:

It's not that McDermott wants to just run, it's about the conservative nature of the passing game too. It's designed for short open passes to act as a running game with high percentage throws but little to no upside unless the WR makes 5 guys miss... Just go look at average depth or routes and targets dropping like stones. Diggs in the KC game is the prime example...

Bills have traditional lived in the intermediate game, oddly enough under this same coach, defenses have weirdly enough decided defend that area and we don't have the WR2 to force the issue.

[Logic]

14 minutes ago, MR8 said:

It's not that McDermott wants to just run, it's about the conservative nature of the passing game too. It's designed for short open passes to act as a running game with high percentage throws but little to no upside unless the WR makes 5 guys miss... Just go look at average depth or routes and targets dropping like stones. Diggs in the KC game is the prime example...

The only thing I'll say, and this is in response to your previous message to me as well, is:

The Bills had an explosive downfield passing offense in 2020 and for chunks of 2021. It was only when opposing defenses started playing a lot of two-high coverage specifically designed to take away that type of offense (which is the dominant defensive trend in the NFL the past few seasons) that the Bills started having to learn to live underneath. 

It's not just the Bills, either. The Chiefs have been forced by the way opposing defenses are playing to live off the run game and short passing game, too. It's really the only way to continue to move the ball on such a defense. It's all about forcing the offense to slowly and methodically matriculate the ball down the field (Hank Stram shoutout), betting that they'll make a mistake along the way. The Bills have HAD to switch to this type of offense to stay alive. I don't think it was a conscious choice made out of conservatism.

Furthermore, McDermott JUST said a few days ago in his end of season presser that the Bills need to generate more explosive plays, and that it would be a big factor in shaping their offseason from a player acquisition and scheming standpoint. 

In short, they WERE an explosive downfield passing offense, they HAD to switch to a shorter YAC offense largely due to how opposing defenses defend them the past couple years, it's affecting other teams, too, and lastly, the Bills are aware of it and the head coach specifically gave voice to addressing the lack of explosivity.

Edited January 29 by Logic

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:27 PM, KDIGGZ said:

 

 

I’m a huge fan of this. We finally have a running game to be feared. Add a blue chip WR and the sky’s the limit for this offense. Joe Brady deserves this promotion. He brought this offense back from the dead and gave Buffalo their first 1000+ rusher in over a decade. The offensive line unit now has a full year playing together under their belt and things can only go up w/ Torrence entering his 2nd year. It’s a long way to go, but I am very hopeful for next season. 

[Bill Grundy]

Logic got logic

[papazoid]

well deserved

 

now get him a legit WR2

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

The move from Dorsey to Brady has to be one of the weirdest things I've ever witnessed in football. Specifically:

All of the analytics favored Dorsey, but if you watched his offense in real time, you saw a lack of logical sequencing, layering, and a general lack of feel for the game. You saw an offense that got stuck in neutral too often, did illogical things, became stale for long stretches, and ultimately failed to score enough points on a consistent basis.

Meanwhile, all of the analytics took a dip once Brady came aboard. Pretty much any notable measure of success from an analytics standpoint was WORSE under Brady than Dorsey. And yet, if you watched the offense under Brady as compared to Dorsey, you suddenly saw a plan, a logic, the aforementioned sequencing and layering, better organization, streamlining of the playbook, greater offensive consistency, and ultimately, more points being scored on a more consistent basis. 

Ken Dorsey was an analytics darling as a playcaller, but in the "real world" of football, the offense often seemed broken and basic.

Joe Brady was NOT so much of an analytics darling, and analytics guys will insist that the Bills offense got "worse" under him, but in the "real world" of football, the offense suddenly seemed to work better, more often, and more consistently.

Absolutely bizarre. I can't explain it, but I CAN tell you what my eyes saw very clearly: the offense seemed to clearly work better and be more productive and consistent under Joe Brady.

 

This.

 

I would add also something else that would not show up directly in the analytics. And that is the demeanor of the play-caller and the influence he had on the players.

 

From the first game we saw with Brady (against the Jets) the "Low Positive" Josh was gone and the loose Josh was back. Cook commented on this as well -- praising Brady for not losing faith in him and putting him back in the Philly game after the costly drop. (Two weeks before, against the Broncos, Dorsey had benched him for a significant portion of the game after the fumble on the opening drive).

[Low Positive]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

The only thing I'll say, and this is in response to your previous message to me as well, is:

The Bills had an explosive downfield passing offense in 2020 and for chunks of 2021. It was only when opposing defenses started playing a lot of two-high coverage specifically designed to take away that type of offense (which is the dominant defensive trend in the NFL the past few seasons) that the Bills started having to learn to live underneath. 

It's not just the Bills, either. The Chiefs have been forced by the way opposing defenses are playing to live off the run game and short passing game, too. It's really the only way to continue to move the ball on such a defense. It's all about forcing the offense to slowly and methodically matriculate the ball down the field (Hank Stram shoutout), betting that they'll make a mistake along the way. The Bills have HAD to switch to this type of offense to stay alive. I don't think it was a conscious choice made out of conservatism.

Furthermore, McDermott JUST said a few days ago in his end of season presser that the Bills need to generate more explosive plays, and that it would be a big factor in shaping their offseason from a player acquisition and scheming standpoint. 

In short, they WERE an explosive downfield passing offense, they HAD to switch to a shorter YAC offense largely due to how opposing defenses defend them the past couple years, it's affecting other teams, too, and lastly, the Bills are aware of it and the head coach specifically gave voice to addressing the lack of explosivity.

You're right about the new NFL. No one would probably argue that Patrick Mahomes is on the cusp of his third ring and SB MVP. But, did you know, that he has been just checking down all year? Wait, that's not possible. He's the new GOAT. But here are the numbers.

• 6th in yards at 4,183
• 1st in YAC at 2,552
• 17th in completed air yards at 1,631 (almost a thousand more YAC than air yards!)
• 14th in Intended air yards at 3,786
• 31st in Air Yards per completion at 4.1
• 30th in Intended air yards per pass attempt at 6.5

He didn't throw it deep. He didn't complete deep passes. He just checked it down and let his guys get YAC. He had almost 400 more YAC than Tua, who played one more game and was throwing to a track team. 

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We started winning games because our defense played much better after Brady took over. I agree the offense on the whole LOOKED better, but it wasn't really performing better than what it had under Dorsey especially after the initial bump we got from a new OC.

 

I attribute the drop in efficiency to Diggs falling off a cliff right around the time Brady took over. Dorsey got to call an offense that featured a true #1 WR. Brady did not. That factor alone would more than wipe out any potential improvement we got switching from Dorsey to Brady.

 

 

Yeah and in the 9 games under Brady Josh Allen rushed 9.2 times on average.    He never ran the ball as many as 9 times in any of Dorsey's 2023 games and the rush count was 4.8 per game.   Those extra risks kept chains moving and put points on the board that the offense under Dorsey's restrictions wouldn't have been able to.   

 

I was in favor of the switch and the timing because Dorsey was replaceable and they needed a morale boost AND because I was certain that the desperation mode they were entering would make Brady look good to a fanbase that largely misunderstood what ailed the Bills offense in the first 10 games.   Of course none of us knew Diggs would play like sh!t from that point out so real statistical improvement never materialized but the defensive improvements and winning made it seem better.  

 

But if they don't get Brady some WR help he is going to turn into a pumpkin next October just like Dorsey.   The offense was never fixed.   Allen carried a disjointed passing game a long way.     

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Give this guy a chance to come up with his own wrinkles, he was pretty much hamstrung with the existing playbook. I assume he’ll now have time to devise a more plays to scheme receivers open.

Biggest stat missing and my big take away was 7 W’s & 2L’s vs better comp.

And the fact Brady was the OC for the toughest part of the schedule. 

[jletha]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah we watched the Offense grind to a halt with Dorsey, it was getting ridiculously aggravating we got to the point where we were begging them to just go 2-minute no huddle just let Josh do it because that was the only thing that ever worked.

 

Brady took over and things started to move again.

I think the reason Dorseys offense looked ok overall was because Josh would go berserker mode and try to save the game, hitting long runs and big plays which would ultimately elevate the stats. I dont know how to track this but I would love to see DVOA and EPA/play for plays made "in structure" between Dorsey and Brady. Under Dorsey it felt like nothing happened in structure. The entire offense was drop back, scan, scramble, hit something out of structure. It felt impossibly difficult. Under Brady it felt like Josh hit a lot more in structure. So while the final result of a drive may be the same, it just was exhausting to watch under Dorsey.

[PayDaBill$]

24 minutes ago, BananaB said:

And the fact Brady was the OC for the toughest part of the schedule. 

Yes that’s what better comp means ….

[Mat68]

Interested to see what his offense looks like and what his vision of player packages and formations are.  You could see a change in the offense when he took over.  

[Bruffalo]

He deserves the shot, and he's been a much better play caller than Dorsey. Implementing his playbook could make the offense even more dangerous.  

 

[ngbills]

Another thing to look at is 2nd half stats. In nearly every game with Brady as OC the O struggled in the 2nd half. Like we saw in the KC playoff game, teams adjust and the Bills many times do not have an answer.

 

I was glad Dorsey was let go. I do not think the stats justify Brady was the clear choice. I can buy Brady for more subjective reasons and things that did not show up in the stats column. But the numbers in no way support a Brady is clearly the guy decision. 

[NickelCity]

Run with the opportunity, Joe. 

[White Linen]

5 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

I'm saying it's suspect that everyone jumps on board the OC decision when there's an underwhelming track record hiring coordinators.  

 

This is a macro level discussion which has devolved into isolated issues.  Brady will implement the offensive game-plan which aligns with the HC's guidance.  Right or not, it comes back to McD. 

 

My concern is, particularly since the 2020 off-season, that Buffalo will maintain status quo, and the offense will be built as if the Bills had a game-manager or slightly better QB.  Brady's hiring seems to point in that direction, though it's a long off-season.  We'll see. 

 

All I'm doing is stating the obvious, that it's McD's decision who the coaches are.  I've expressed that I'm not overly impressed with McD.  So he'll sink or swim with these decisions because it's up to him to evolve. 

 

IMO, the strength of the organization is Beane and Allen.  I believe they are the reason McDermott looks better than he is and he benefits from Pegula being loyal.  McD needs to get his crap together and I think he's made improvement but its not been enough for me.  

[Billever76]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:37 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

As they should. 
 

People want a young, highly respected offensive mind with a big time resume and got one.

 

Whiners gunna whine, feed them to the pit. 
 

I cannot wait to see what Brady does with an offense that HE installs and runs concepts he develops. 

What is bradys big time resume you speak about? Is it working with Joe burrow chase and Jefferson at LSU....I could call plays for that trio and succeed 

39 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

He deserves the shot, and he's been a much better play caller than Dorsey. Implementing his playbook could make the offense even more dangerous.  

 

That's the thing....we keep giving all these Unprovens a shot and it's at the expense of wasting the best years of Allen's prime .....eventually there will be no more shots for josh allen....why not get him the absolute top weapons and coaches and see how high this kids ceiling really is?

[Bruffalo]

9 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

What is bradys big time resume you speak about? Is it working with Joe burrow chase and Jefferson at LSU....I could call plays for that trio and succeed 

That's the thing....we keep giving all these Unprovens a shot and it's at the expense of wasting the best years of Allen's prime .....eventually there will be no more shots for josh allen....why not get him the absolute top weapons and coaches and see how high this kids ceiling really is?

I'm gonna argue the opposite for a second. The proven great offensive minds are already head coaches (or on their way to being a HC).  What is the floor with Allen at the helm of the offense? I'd argue we just saw it.  11-6. 

 

What I want is to get in at the ground floor for the next great mind. That could be Brady. It didn't work out in Carolina but I don't think it was destined to given how bad Matt Rhule was. I'm not going to ding him for working with talent, that's absurd. 

 

This is what you have to live with with a defensive HC, bottom line. Now if you want to say we shouldn't do that... Well I'm all ears. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Josh Allen

Dorsey: 9 Games

350 attempts - 2660 yards - 19 TDs - 11 INT - 7 rushing TD

 

Brady: 9 Games

298 attempts - 2095 yards - 14 TDs - 7 INT - 8 rushing TD

 

James Cook

Dorsey: 9 games 

120 carries - 615 yards - 5.1 YPC

 

Brady: 9 Games

153 carries - 647 yards - 4.2 YPC 

 

Not much you can take away, also doesn’t account for weather, team, and the challenges of it not being an offense designed by Brady. 

I mean, I think you can get a little bit out of it, though just those two stats seems misleading

 

I think there's something I want to do a bigger data dive on: total rushing yards per game and breaking out WR receiving yards vs combined RB/TE. Also time of possession.

 

It seemed like under Dorsey the ball was pushed to receivers (which is where most of the big mistake INTs happened) while Brady focused on RBs and TEs. 

 

This would explain why people are raving about Brady and have kicked Dorsey to the curb. It's not that Brady isn't getting yards so much as he's been getting them in dribs and drabs, having Allen take the easy throws to Cook or Kincaid while Dorsey seemed to push it. Those underneath throws are higher percent and go for fewer yards but it certainly felt like we were on the field longer as opposed to boom and bust three and outs.

[SirAndrew]

50 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Another thing to look at is 2nd half stats. In nearly every game with Brady as OC the O struggled in the 2nd half. Like we saw in the KC playoff game, teams adjust and the Bills many times do not have an answer.

 

I was glad Dorsey was let go. I do not think the stats justify Brady was the clear choice. I can buy Brady for more subjective reasons and things that did not show up in the stats column. But the numbers in no way support a Brady is clearly the guy decision. 

The KC loss is far enough in the past that I’m done posting irrational hot takes. I’m not going to doubt this hire too much, but the second half issue is a valid concern. Josh Allen is a great blessing, but a QB like Allen is always going make it difficult to assess the OC. We all need to be realistic, Allen could make a bad OC look really good. It’s not Brady’s fault he doesn’t have a ton of experience, but it’s just tough for me to assess any young OC when they have an elite QB. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

14 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

What is bradys big time resume you speak about? Is it working with Joe burrow chase and Jefferson at LSU....I could call plays for that trio and succeed 

That's the thing....we keep giving all these Unprovens a shot and it's at the expense of wasting the best years of Allen's prime .....eventually there will be no more shots for josh allen....why not get him the absolute top weapons and coaches and see how high this kids ceiling really is?

Then why didn’t you? Why didn’t you design, implement, develop and coordinate the passing attack that was revolutionary? 
 

Joe Brady played a massive role in that LSU did, don’t believe me go ask Joe Burrow. To claim otherwise is pure ignorance. 

8 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I mean, I think you can get a little bit out of it, though just those two stats seems misleading

 

I think there's something I want to do a bigger data dive on: total rushing yards per game and breaking out WR receiving yards vs combined RB/TE. Also time of possession.

 

It seemed like under Dorsey the ball was pushed to receivers (which is where most of the big mistake INTs happened) while Brady focused on RBs and TEs. 

 

This would explain why people are raving about Brady and have kicked Dorsey to the curb. It's not that Brady isn't getting yards so much as he's been getting them in dribs and drabs, having Allen take the easy throws to Cook or Kincaid while Dorsey seemed to push it. Those underneath throws are higher percent and go for fewer yards but it certainly felt like we were on the field longer as opposed to boom and bust three and outs.

For sure, I was surprised by the numbers as I found them, but it’s important to remember this isn’t even a piece if the cake, maybe just some light decoration. 
 

Key one for me in the INTs over 9 games, that’s a huge improvement. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I’m not saying Joe Brady is a shoe-in next big thing OC who will absolutely revolutionize our offense in ways we’ve never seen. It’s unfair to have those expectations. 
 

He was highly regarded coming out of LSU, did the best he could with what he had for a year in a half in Carolina was fired in highly controversial fashion. 

He could easily the best OC hire we’ve made in decades. 

 

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Ehhh not really, but saw a decrease in effectiveness from our #1 weapon. 
 

I was also in the camp that I thought they can run the ball better, not necessarily more. They did run it more, and unfortunately got a bit too run heavy specifically on predictable downs in the last few games.

 

I think Brady will be as good as Allen carries these guys, unless they put a ton of YAC talent around him or find a way to bring back to deep and intermediate passing game 

The deep threat is missing , and has been since John Brown.

I think we might have the Beasely slot type already on the team

Diggs aint gettin any younger though 

thanks

19 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

That’s an unknown.  Not sure I wanna get on that hamster wheel of coaches again.  

I feel that. Think Brady has plenty more up his sleeve yet.

 Hopeful , at least

[The All-Pro-Knox Gallery]

Well we could do much worse.

 

Just don’t go Dorsey on us, Joe.

 

Decent amount of risk here going the internal route but things did improve when he took over and our offense looked good. Needs to find that next level with a full off-season to prepare. 

[Alphadawg7]

He earned the job IMHO.  Doesn't mean he has nothing to prove, because he still has a lot to prove.  But he took someone else's offense and did enough with that to help this team go from 11th place and out of the playoffs to division winner and #2 seed.  

 

Unfortunately for Joe, he got the job in a season where the coaching staff as a whole is on a hot seat.  

[Nextmanup]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:50 PM, FireChans said:

The 2023 Bills. 

That's not great, seeing as the analytics on Dorsey for his part of 2023 were better than Brady's portion of 2023.

 

Don't take my word for it, look it up.

 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Over/under on the date of the first “Fire Brady” post?

[Bill Grundy]

2 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Over/under on the date of the first “Fire Brady” post?

 

first incomplete pass

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

That's not great, seeing as the analytics on Dorsey for his part of 2023 were better than Brady's portion of 2023.

 

Don't take my word for it, look it up.

 

 

That would be really cool if the best EPA/play team got a Super Bowl, unfortunately it’s wins that matter and we were 7-2 with Brady at the helm, and 5-5 with Kenny.