Spags didn't think Josh could stay patient

[beebe]

Finally got a chance to rewatch the game. I am fairly certain this was by far the most passive defensive game plan that Spags has put together for the Chiefs vs Allen. In the 2020 AFC championship, he brought a bunch of pressure. He's done the same in many of the matchups afterward with a variety of creative and well-timed blitzes. This time, basically nothing. In 39 pass plays, the Chiefs barely ever pressured Allen and many times it was by design. D-Linemen were occasionally not even rushing and just trying to bat the ball down at the LOS. KC kept taking away the deep and intermediate routes and testing Josh's discipline to remain patient. 

 

Despite running just 44 plays (kneel downs not included), the Chiefs had eight 20+ yard plays.

 

In 78 plays, the Bills had zero. 

 

The game plan worked but was technically a failure. The Bills had three chances to hit on a deep ball but misfired on all of them. There was the Diggs pass deep downfield isolated on a safety. There was Shakir in the end zone. There was the throw downfield to Sherfield that was nearly caught. Catches on any of those three could have swung the game in Buffalo's favor. 

 

Obviously a loss is a loss, but Spags' apparent plan was to patiently wait for Josh to get impatient and hand them a game-altering turnover and he didn't give them one.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Don’t tell this to the people crying about throws behind LOS. 

[SWATeam]

Just now, beebe said:

 

 

Obviously a loss is a loss, but Spags' apparent plan was to patiently wait for Josh to get impatient and hand them a game-altering turnover and he didn't give them one.

He tried on the last drive by fumbling and then throwing that dropped pick.

 

It did seem on that last drive Josh lost some of that patience that was working so well all game.  If he just kept taking those checkdowns on that last sequence, they were still there to move the chains.

[DapperCam]

Dorsey’s play designs were trash. I hope we get a better OC in here that can scheme players open even if the other team goes super passive.

[Livinginthepast]

The deep plays were there for Josh and he was being patient. I counted 4 long passes. 3 were outright dropped by receivers (2 by Sherfield and 1 by Diggs) and the last one that Josh had Shakir in the endzone he didnt get enough on it. The Bills failed to make the plays that would have won them this game or at the very least put way more pressure on KC. KC got let off the hook on all 4 and as much of a genius as Spagnola seems to think he is (and others too) they had nothing to with him and everything to do with luck.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Can someone hire Spags as a HC, already? Get him the heck out of our playoff path. 

[boyst]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Can someone hire Spags as a HC, already? Get him the heck out of our playoff path. 

he's not HC material.

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, boyst said:

he's not HC material.

Agree, but there are a few every year that are hired and not HC material. And it would do us a big favor lol

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Agree, but there are a few every year that are hired and not HC material. And it would do us a big favor lol

i just couldn't do it. he doesn't fit the team.

 

Dick LeBeau, Marty Schottenheimer, The Ryans, Jim Schwartz, Spags... were never HC material.

 

I don't see the defensive coordinator mindset being ideal for HC. never really have unless they were a tremendously aggressive defensive head coach

[Dablitzkrieg]

38 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Dorsey’s play designs were trash. I hope we get a better OC in here that can scheme players open even if the other team goes super passive.

Who wants to tell him?

[Allen2Moulds]

41 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

The deep plays were there for Josh and he was being patient. I counted 4 long passes. 3 were outright dropped by receivers (2 by Sherfield and 1 by Diggs) and the last one that Josh had Shakir in the endzone he didnt get enough on it. The Bills failed to make the plays that would have won them this game or at the very least put way more pressure on KC. KC got let off the hook on all 4 and as much of a genius as Spagnola seems to think he is (and others too) they had nothing to with him and everything to do with luck.

I was at the game and couldn't believe he missed the pass to Shakira, but then I rewatched it and see that he was able to step into it. Dawkins was pushed into him as he threw it. It was the right decision, Dawkins just needed to hold up for .01 seconds longer.

But the real problem of the game was that our Dline was once again a no show against KC.  And of course we need a new kicker. I think we all saw that coming.

Edited January 23 by Allen2Moulds

[extrahammer]

You know who would make Josh the Bruce Lee of quarterbacks?

 

Bill Belichick. 

[Murdox]

57 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

He tried on the last drive by fumbling and then throwing that dropped pick.

 

It did seem on that last drive Josh lost some of that patience that was working so well all game.  If he just kept taking those checkdowns on that last sequence, they were still there to move the chains.

 

I have to put some blame on the McDermott and crew there.  At the two-minute warning they should have been talking with Josh about the state of the game and the clock.  McDermott already showed us he was afraid to put his D back out on the field, so they should have been looking at getting first downs to run the clock.  It was too early to start chucking it in the end zone.  Josh should have been told to look for the underneath routes as the primary options on the next two plays.  They were open.

Edited January 23 by Murdox

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

56 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

He tried on the last drive by fumbling and then throwing that dropped pick.

 

It did seem on that last drive Josh lost some of that patience that was working so well all game.  If he just kept taking those checkdowns on that last sequence, they were still there to move the chains.

 

What dropped interception?

 

I remember McDuffie getting 1 hand on a throw, but he wasn't close to catching it 

[Magox]

Is there anyone seriously criticizing Joe Brady's gameplan and how Allen was executing it.   It was nearly flawless, there may have been a couple run calls that I would have dialed something in differently in the 4th quarter and in hindsight maybe Josh should have passed the ball to a crossing Diggs but it's less than a handful of plays and even so, Josh was looking to see if that play would develop to Shakir and it did and unfortunately Jones got just enough of Allen to not be able to throw that ball accurately to Shakir.  

 

Yes, you could argue that the situational awareness for Allen should have been to throw the immediate open guy in Diggs to run down the clock but he was looking to take the lead.  

 

Brady and Allen both were an A + and neither were the problem.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

Yes, you could argue that the situational awareness for Allen should have been to throw the immediate open guy in Diggs to run down the clock but he was looking to take the lead.  

 

Alternatively you could say that situational awareness for Brady should have been not leaving Chris Jones 1v1 on a designed shot play. It's weird that nobody even brings this up. Brady called a very good game. But those minor details that win championships are still lacking.

[ILBillsfan]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Agree, but there are a few every year that are hired and not HC material. And it would do us a big favor lol

He wqs already a HC and did not do well in that roll

[Dubie54]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

The deep plays were there for Josh and he was being patient. I counted 4 long passes. 3 were outright dropped by receivers (2 by Sherfield and 1 by Diggs) and the last one that Josh had Shakir in the endzone he didnt get enough on it. The Bills failed to make the plays that would have won them this game or at the very least put way more pressure on KC. KC got let off the hook on all 4 and as much of a genius as Spagnola seems to think he is (and others too) they had nothing to with him and everything to do with luck.

The one Sherfield drop was obvious PI that wasn't called. His right arm was being pinned by the corner.

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Alternatively you could say that situational awareness for Brady should have been not leaving Chris Jones 1v1 on a designed shot play. It's weird that nobody even brings this up. Brady called a very good game. But those minor details that win championships are still lacking.

No question Jones should have been doubled up.

[Jerome007]

34 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

But the real problem of the game was that our Dline was once again a no show against KC. 

O sack. And I think just 1 in the Pittsburgh game.  And with a LOUD crowd that certainly helped to make opposing OLinemen nervous and deaf.

Against KC, what was even worse than 0 sack, was getting gashed with the runs inside. LBs were decimated, but Klein is good against the run. Good enough that if the DLine did its job. they would have stopped a lot more.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

As I keep saying: the last offensive drive had things clicking. Earlier in the season teams were blitzing Josh and it worked. This time we saw blitz beaters to Kincaid (that I had been pounding the table for) and they worked like a charm.

 

For the most part Josh was incredibly patient. It makes his sudden impatience to try to thread it to Shakir right after the two minute warning stand out even more to me, especially with Diggs open

[BearNorth]

25 minutes ago, Dubie54 said:

The one Sherfield drop was obvious PI that wasn't called. His right arm was being pinned by the corner.

 

Agreed, and remarkably he still almost hauled it in.  Unusually for a Hochuli led crew they kept their flags in their pockets for the most part - good and bad.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

Finally got a chance to rewatch the game. I am fairly certain this was by far the most passive defensive game plan that Spags has put together for the Chiefs vs Allen. In the 2020 AFC championship, he brought a bunch of pressure. He's done the same in many of the matchups afterward with a variety of creative and well-timed blitzes. This time, basically nothing. In 39 pass plays, the Chiefs barely ever pressured Allen and many times it was by design. D-Linemen were occasionally not even rushing and just trying to bat the ball down at the LOS. KC kept taking away the deep and intermediate routes and testing Josh's discipline to remain patient. 

 

Despite running just 44 plays (kneel downs not included), the Chiefs had eight 20+ yard plays.

 

In 78 plays, the Bills had zero. 

 

The game plan worked but was technically a failure. The Bills had three chances to hit on a deep ball but misfired on all of them. There was the Diggs pass deep downfield isolated on a safety. There was Shakir in the end zone. There was the throw downfield to Sherfield that was nearly caught. Catches on any of those three could have swung the game in Buffalo's favor. 

 

Obviously a loss is a loss, but Spags' apparent plan was to patiently wait for Josh to get impatient and hand them a game-altering turnover and he didn't give them one.

Sherfield had 2 that should've been caught. All 4 would've been game changers 

[Einstein]

43 minutes ago, Magox said:

Is there anyone seriously criticizing Joe Brady's gameplan and how Allen was executing it.   It was nearly flawless

 

Only the trolls.

 

They point to the line of scrimmage pass stats, ignoring the deep shots that were dropped.

[LABILLBACKER]

 Josh was patient and took his shots to Sherfield and Diggs. The Sherfield throw obviously was difficult but open and catchable.  The throw to Diggs was absolutely perfect.  No excuses there. I personally would have liked to see Josh go to Diggs on the 2nd & 9. It definitely would've been a 1st and burned clock.  Seeing Shakir open probably got him excited. We can easily run a less turnover centric offense like against KC. And take our shots when safeties pinch.  The one worry I have is Cook.  Can he be trusted to ever catch a ball and besides the Dallas game, can he be consistent?

[GoBills808]

42 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Alternatively you could say that situational awareness for Brady should have been not leaving Chris Jones 1v1 on a designed shot play. It's weird that nobody even brings this up. Brady called a very good game. But those minor details that win championships are still lacking.

I still hate the approach on offense tbh

 

It only worked because we got lucky Mahomes missed two easy throws for and Hardman fumbled through the end zone if were being honest, final score should probably have been 38-24

 

 

[Monty98]

53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Alternatively you could say that situational awareness for Brady should have been not leaving Chris Jones 1v1 on a designed shot play. It's weird that nobody even brings this up. Brady called a very good game. But those minor details that win championships are still lacking.

I mean I don't think you're planning on Chris Jones coming off the edge at the end, he's been the guy in the middle pretty much his career, and you have a well paid OT in Dawkins that you have to trust to stop Jones one on one, Dawkins got bull rushed like he was a sled into Allen's lap.

[DrBob806]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

i just couldn't do it. he doesn't fit the team.

 

Dick LeBeau, Marty Schottenheimer, The Ryans, Jim Schwartz, Spags... were never HC material.

 

I don't see the defensive coordinator mindset being ideal for HC. never really have unless they were a tremendously aggressive defensive head coach

Marty

 

You can't be serious. 200-126-1 in his career. 

 

Two things stand out to me on Marty....1) he just had problems vs Elway obviously, and 2) he was 100% spot on about Drew Brees. Remember, they fired him because he didn't want Philip Rivers as his starting QB, he wanted Brees.

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

Marty

 

You can't be serious. 200-126-1 in his career. 

 

Two things stand out to me on Marty....1) he just had problems vs Elway obviously, and 2) he was 100% spot on about Drew Brees. Remember, they fired him because he didn't want Philip Rivers as his starting QB, he wanted Brees.

5-13 in the playoffs! Not reaching the superbowl

 

not good enoguh. not even close. squandered talent. couldn't coach a playoff game. had more talent than he could coach. couldn't make critical game management decisions....feels like i am describing McDermott.

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I still hate the approach on offense tbh

 

It only worked because we got lucky Mahomes missed two easy throws for and Hardman fumbled through the end zone if were being honest, final score should probably have been 38-24

 

 

 

I don't think there was another approach. I have watched the all-22 and nothing was available other than check downs and Allen runs for like 80% of the game. We tried dialing up deep shots. A mixture of good work by KC capping routes, poor vertical separation, and drops led to us capitalizing on zero deep passes. Diggs and Sherfield were both brutal in this game. There aren't a lot of offensive gameplans than can make up for JAG play from every outside WR on the roster.

 

As usual in the playoffs we were flat out out-coached on the defensive side of the ball. Our offense did what it could with what was available. The much bigger issue was that our defense didn't even come close to matching KC's performance. The degree of difficulty between Allen's and Mahomes' jobs in this game was as wide as it's ever been in their matchups.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think there was another approach. I have watched the all-22 and nothing was available other than check downs and Allen runs for like 80% of the game. We tried dialing up deep shots. A mixture of good work by KC capping routes, poor vertical separation, and drops led to us capitalizing on zero deep passes. Diggs and Sherfield were both brutal in this game. There aren't a lot of offensive gameplans than can make up for JAG play from every outside WR on the roster.

 

As usual in the playoffs we were flat out out-coached on the defensive side of the ball. Our offense did what it could with what was available. The much bigger issue was that our defense didn't even come close to matching KC's performance. The degree of difficulty between Allen's and Mahomes' jobs in this game was as wide as it's ever been in their matchups.

No I mean I hated the gameplan on offense, the play calling was fine

 

There is imo nothing about this roster that suggests we would be able to beat the Chiefs playing posession

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Can someone hire Spags as a HC, already? Get him the heck out of our playoff path. 

 

I actually think he's going to be the first man up so to speak when Reid retires and take over as head coach. Some speculate that could happen as soon as this year but would you really want to walk away with potentially the GOAT on your roster?

[DapperCam]

57 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Agreed, and remarkably he still almost hauled it in.  Unusually for a Hochuli led crew they kept their flags in their pockets for the most part - good and bad.

Except when golden child Mahomes needed bailed out to extend the drive at the end of the game 😅

[WNYFAN1]

2 hours ago, beebe said:

Finally got a chance to rewatch the game. I am fairly certain this was by far the most passive defensive game plan that Spags has put together for the Chiefs vs Allen. In the 2020 AFC championship, he brought a bunch of pressure. He's done the same in many of the matchups afterward with a variety of creative and well-timed blitzes. This time, basically nothing. In 39 pass plays, the Chiefs barely ever pressured Allen and many times it was by design. D-Linemen were occasionally not even rushing and just trying to bat the ball down at the LOS. KC kept taking away the deep and intermediate routes and testing Josh's discipline to remain patient. 

 

Despite running just 44 plays (kneel downs not included), the Chiefs had eight 20+ yard plays.

 

In 78 plays, the Bills had zero. 

 

The game plan worked but was technically a failure. The Bills had three chances to hit on a deep ball but misfired on all of them. There was the Diggs pass deep downfield isolated on a safety. There was Shakir in the end zone. There was the throw downfield to Sherfield that was nearly caught. Catches on any of those three could have swung the game in Buffalo's favor. 

 

Obviously a loss is a loss, but Spags' apparent plan was to patiently wait for Josh to get impatient and hand them a game-altering turnover and he didn't give them one.

Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing.

 

My only critique is, if you are going to elude to the things that might have happened, like the three dropped passes, they you should probably include the Allen fumble that absolutely could have been a turnover. Maybe even the near interception.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

No I mean I hated the gameplan on offense, the play calling was fine

 

Curious what gameplan you would have preferred?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Curious what gameplan you would have preferred?

Just more down field and direct. Take it for granted that the wideouts are getting clamped but get Kincaid/Knox on their LBs, try to get them in man and then let Allen run loose. I liked the heavy set w Edwards at sniffer but it just got too predictable and unproductive...playing looser creates more margin for error. Everything was just wound way too tight

 

Imo they knew they couldn't blitz to generate pressure and that informed their whole approach on offense to try to shorten the game, but once you're just not stopping them it's time to switch tactics

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

No I mean I hated the gameplan on offense, the play calling was fine

 

There is imo nothing about this roster that suggests we would be able to beat the Chiefs playing posession

 

I agree that the Chiefs should have won by 2 scores based on their brilliant offensive execution.    They played BY FAR their best offensive game of the year.   Not sure they could have been any better aside from the Hardman fumble.

 

But the Bills caught a break with that Hardman fumble.  And I don't think there was any other way to win offensively than what the Bills did.   The Chiefs have a very good pass defense.  By taking modest gains the Bills could have scored virtually every time they had the ball.   They have the personnel to play this style IF they are willing to use Allen like a battering ram.

 

It will be interesting to see if KC suffers the "Bills hangover" again.   I think teams that beat the Bills are 2-16 in recent seasons the following game.    Including the Chiefs losing the next game both times they've beaten the Bills in the playoffs.

 

Going forward,  the Bills(again) clearly should focus on personnel around Allen to get the offense back to 2020 levels where Allen was brilliant from the pocket and wasn't needed to carry the ball 10 times per game.   

 

 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Take it for granted that the wideouts are getting clamped but get Kincaid/Knox on their LBs, try to get them in man and then let Allen run loose.

 

Chiefs were chucking pass catchers off the line, Kincaid included. The biggest thing he needs to work on this offseason is improving his physicality off the line, either get stronger or find nuanced ways to work through the trash. Once he's won the initial release there is not much to improve in his game but too frequently he is getting knocked down or re-routed.

 

The biggest criticism I have for Brady and the offensive structure is overall lack of crispness. For example there are times where less detailed routes allow conflict defenders to cover both areas. The 2nd play of the game is a good example of this, the one where the safety drove on Diggs on seemingly a skinny post(?) and he couldn't come down with the catch. On that play Allen is clearly reading a high/low between Kincaid and Diggs. But Diggs is slow on his break and doesn't clear into the 2nd window fast enough to give Allen a clean read. Worse, he drifts upfield towards the safety instead of flattening his route into clear grass.

 

And that's just one example of one particular problem I noticed on the all-22. Plenty more where that came from. As I've said a dozen times it is minor details like this that end up being the difference between playoff wins and losses. The Chiefs nail those details time and time again and I have to think superior coaching on both sides of the ball is the only reason why.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Alternatively you could say that situational awareness for Brady should have been not leaving Chris Jones 1v1 on a designed shot play. It's weird that nobody even brings this up. Brady called a very good game. But those minor details that win championships are still lacking.

Josh had a massive pocket he should have stepped into on that play.  He chose to stand still like his feet were nailed to the ground.

Edited January 23 by Billl

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

For the most part Josh was incredibly patient. It makes his sudden impatience to try to thread it to Shakir right after the two minute warning stand out even more to me, especially with Diggs open

I don't think it was impatience.  He had a shot and he took it.  It just didn't work out.  And on the subsequent 3rd down, Josh should have actually been less patient/safe and looked to run to get us into better field goal range. 

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

But the real problem of the game was that our Dline was once again a no show against KC

The Dline are the true villians of this loss against the Chiefs. Statistically I am not sure there was even theoretical room to be less productive.