Remove Divisions in NFL

[bobobonators]

41 minutes ago, Special K said:

When the Bills went to four straight Super Bowls, they were in the worst division in football at the time.....they had a free 8 wins over the Colts, Pats, Jets, and Fins...I bet you weren’t complaining about weak divisions then.

I was 5 so yeh I wasn’t complaining. This isn’t meant to complain about the Bills - it’s a topic about the NFL in general. 

56 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Yea this is a if we lose tomorrow type post. Don’t lose to Zach Wilson, MAC Jones, or have 12 on the field and we wouldn’t have to play this out 

This is 100% a “it’s week 18 and the playoffs start next week” post. How many times do I have to say this is NOT about the Bills specifically. 

[beebe]

having six of your 17 games every year be against the same three teams is redundant and boring. i would be in favor of playing each divisional team once per year and alternate home/road. especially now that home field advantage is widely considered to be just a single point or 1.5 points in most cases. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Bills couldn't beat Jets or Pats. Division rivals. If they lose tomorrow they deserve to be out

I hate this logic. The Chiefs lost against the Raiders and Broncos. Eagles lost to the Jets and Cardinals. Do they not deserve to be in the playoffs? 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Keep divisions. Maaaybe shake them up so they make more geographical sense but even that is a tough sell. 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Rew said:

Division rivalries are part of the emotion of the game and help with parity.  The game would be less without them imo.

As if there won't still be rivalries.... In fact, some of, if not the best rivalries have been outside divisions between great teams who constantly competed in prime time games or playoffs.

Four-team divisions are dumb. If not just conferences, maybe just 2 divisions per conference.

 

The NFL is too stuck in its traditions sometimes.

[Rew]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

As if there won't still be rivalries.... In fact, some of, if not the best rivalries have been outside divisions between great teams who constantly competed in prime time games or playoffs.

Four-team divisions are dumb. If not just conferences, maybe just 2 divisions per conference.

 

The NFL is too stuck in its traditions sometimes.

Playing some teams twice a year is different.  Look at NE and NYJ this year.  They played us tougher than they played pretty much any other team.  Us playing KC as much as we have has been scheduling quirk and competitivness in playoffs. 

 

You want larger divisions, fine.  Playing teams twice a year home/away is overall good for the league.  I know it's not perfect at times in weak divisions, but divisional games are different pretty much across the board.

[mannc]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I like divisions 

the current setup doesn’t upset me 

If you don’t make the playoffs under the current format, you didn’t deserve to and never would have won the Super Bowl anyway…

[4merper4mer]

The NFL should take a page from the NCAA and just put Alabama in the playoffs and make up some crap about why.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I love it when someone starts an argument here and the very first sentence is just factually inaccurate.  

[Westside Madness]

Since you opted to 'clarify' and not 'edit your OP', everyone who reads is is going to immediately have a response similar to many that it is a blant false statement. If you want real discourse on the validity of divisions, you may want to actually go back and edit the OP.

[nedboy7]

How about 3 divisions with 26 teams making the playoffs. 

[bobobonators]

5 minutes ago, Westside Madness said:

Since you opted to 'clarify' and not 'edit your OP', everyone who reads is is going to immediately have a response similar to many that it is a blant false statement. If you want real discourse on the validity of divisions, you may want to actually go back and edit the OP.

Edited. Thanks. 

[bobobonators]

13 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I love it when someone starts an argument here and the very first sentence is just factually inaccurate.  

That was my fault. My 4yr old is a terror tonight and it’s hard to put a coherent thought on paper. 

37 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

As if there won't still be rivalries.... In fact, some of, if not the best rivalries have been outside divisions between great teams who constantly competed in prime time games or playoffs.

Four-team divisions are dumb. If not just conferences, maybe just 2 divisions per conference.

 

The NFL is too stuck in its traditions sometimes.

I agree with this. Look at Chiefs/Bills/Bengals last few years. And of course the rivalries will keep changing over time a bit. I see nothing wrong with that.  Also, we would still play the pats/fins/jets every year. 

[djp14150]

If they did such a format….it’s more likely going to be…

 

2 16 team conferences

you play 12 or 13 of the 15 teams with a pre-set cycle of what 2/3 teams you don’t play over a 6/5 yr period 

then you play 4-5 games against NFC teams on a set rotation for 8 yrs.  The 5th game could be a “ rivalry” game such as cross city/ state rivals and Super Bowl rematch’s, conf finals losers face each other.

[djp14150]

You could go with a rotating 8 team division.

 

you play H-H against each for 14 games with 2 byes

 

Round 1 division winner gets a bye. Then 2-7, 3-6,4-5 play each other in round 2 of playoffs

round 2 is top team and 3 survivors

round 3 is quarterfinals in a bracket where 2 division teams won’t meet again until Super Bowl 

round 4 semifinals

round 5 Super Bowl 

 

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Every year, haha? It almost never happens that a team with a losing record makes the playoffs. It is rare.

Last one I remember was Seattle at 7-9

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

As if there won't still be rivalries.... In fact, some of, if not the best rivalries have been outside divisions between great teams who constantly competed in prime time games or playoffs.

Four-team divisions are dumb. If not just conferences, maybe just 2 divisions per conference.

 

The NFL is too stuck in its traditions sometimes.

I.e. Chiefs Bills…

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Rew said:

Playing some teams twice a year is different.  Look at NE and NYJ this year.  They played us tougher than they played pretty much any other team.  Us playing KC as much as we have has been scheduling quirk and competitivness in playoffs. 

 

You want larger divisions, fine.  Playing teams twice a year home/away is overall good for the league.  I know it's not perfect at times in weak divisions, but divisional games are different pretty much across the board.

With only conferences, you'd have great teams facing each other every year. You'd have average teams facing each other every year. Bad teams facing each other every year. You'd have rivalries popping up everywhere along with more parity amongst the conference. The league could easily still pit teams against each other. They could base some of the schedule on geography for travel reasons and create yearly rivalries that way. Lamenting the extinction of divisional games would be pointless when rivalries continue to pop up anyway.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, bobobonators said:

I agree with this. Look at Chiefs/Bills/Bengals last few years. And of course the rivalries will keep changing over time a bit. I see nothing wrong with that.  Also, we would still play the pats/fins/jets every year. 

The most profitable rivalries for the league are the big games between great teams, like Bills vs Chiefs or Pats vs Colts back in the day, or 49ers vs Cowboys before that. No one cares or watches the likes of Pats vs Jets or Panthers vs Falcons...

 

Scheduling big games between great teams is not hard now, but with only conferences it would be even easier and more often, as well as ensuring the teams are ceded correctly per their record.

[bobobonators]

37 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

The most profitable rivalries for the league are the big games between great teams, like Bills vs Chiefs or Pats vs Colts back in the day, or 49ers vs Cowboys before that. No one cares or watches the likes of Pats vs Jets or Panthers vs Falcons...

 

Scheduling big games between great teams is not hard now, but with only conferences it would be even easier and more often, as well as ensuring the teams are ceded correctly per their record.

My thoughts exactly buddy. 

[chongli]

Last year, 12-5 Dallas had to travel to 8-9 Tampa Bay in the Wild Card.

 

This year, most likely Philadelphia at 12-5 will have to go to a probable 9-8 Tampa Bay.

 

Something is wrong with this picture.

Edited January 7 by chongli

[Big Turk]

Never happening. You might get 3 votes from owners if you are lucky.

30 minutes ago, chongli said:

Last year, 12-5 Dallas had to travel to 8-9 Tampa Bay in the Wild Card.

 

This year, most likely Philadelphia at 12-5 will have to a probably 9-8 Tampa Bay.

 

Something is wrong with this picture.

 

They could simply have the team with the better record hosting the game and leave the divisions the way they are.

Edited January 7 by Big Turk

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Never happening. You might get 3 votes from owners if you are lucky.

 

They could simply have the team with the better record hosting the game and leave the divisions the way they are.

Yep , comes down to the owners. There would be little to no support for the idea so yeah, not happening. 

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

Every year, haha? It almost never happens that a team with a losing record makes the playoffs. It is rare.

Ijust started reading this thread, and you’re right MJS.  Even the Bucs will end up with a winning record.  The NFL will never make the change suggested.  Whether anyone agrees with it, the cold hard reality is the league likes having divisions and their rivalries.

[Your Brown Eye]

[Doc Brown]

The only thing I'd change is the division winner gets into the playoffs but the seeds are then determined by record only.  There's a scant possibility that the 8-9 Falcons could be hosting the 12-5 Eagles which is ridiculous. 

[DrBob806]

12 hours ago, bobobonators said:

 

Chiefs have also gotten home field advantage for Mahomes’ entire tenure (minus this year), in part, due to the AFC W being a disaster. 

 

...edit

 

" in part, due to a great coach & QB"

 

C'mon, do better.

[NoSaint]

12 hours ago, bobobonators said:

All fair points. 
 

My main motivation would be to reduce the amount of schedule bias, and to ensure a team won’t make the playoffs over a team who has a better record. Let alone get a home game in the playoffs over a team who had a better record. 

This is not meant to be a pro Bills thread. Just speaking in general terms about the NFL playoff picture 

Yea but you are solving tiny problems by getting rid of solid perks. 
 

the rivalry games are good to have even and at this point parody is at all time highs anyway so it’s not like there are many true throw away divisions over any long stretch

 

then you’ve also created playing in opposite conference cities every 18 years instead of every 8

[Nextmanup]

12 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Almost every year we see teams make the playoffs over another team with a better record, due to winning their division. Or we see teams just have a cakewalk to the playoffs/home field advantage bc they play in a trash division and have automatic 6 wins (Chiefs past few years/Pats for more than a decade). 
 

Remove the divisions. Keep AFC/NFC. Keep the same 18 week/17 game schedule every team plays every single team in their conference 1x and then do 2 games vs opposite conference every year to maintain some inter-conference rivalries alive. 
 

Removing the divisions and going with 2 conference automatically eliminates teams with worse records making it in over teams with better records, and it also eliminates schedule bias by forcing all teams to have the same schedule  (minus the 2 games vs opposite conference).

 

With 11/17 games being outside of your division, it doesn’t make sense to reward a team so much at playoff time for winning their division. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

Not only would this prevent teams with lousy records from making the playoffs, but it would also eliminate the "safe harbor" of teams having off years realizing all they need to do is win their weak division to qualify.

 

New England got an automatic trip to the playoffs for years simply b/c of the division they were randomly in, and the incompetence of their competitors in that single division.  New England should have to prove itself against the LEAGUE over a SEASON.  Not dominate 6 games against 3 teams. 

 

I realize you (THE OP) basically said as much, but yes, I would be very much in favor of a conference wide system, maybe something like what they do in the NHL these days.  Though that is a hybrid approach.

 

The only reason to have "divisions" nowadays is to try and maintain rivalries, which is a good reason to keep divisions (!) but they could sort out the playoff qualification system much better than they currently do.

 

 

 

 

[May Day 10]

They have had this alignment for an eternity in terms of pro sports.  They even added another game seamlessly.

 

I guess I'm fine with it.  A few things I don't like but not sure what the answers are.  For the most part, the current format is very clean.

 

First, I feel like the bills miss the mark in their division.  I think the Miami "rivalry' is silly and has been dead for 30 years (would this be any different if buffalo and Denver were at the top of the division 2 years in a row?).  Imo the centrals: pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cindy, Detroit, minn, gb etc makes more sense.  I've grown really bored of playing the jets, new england, and miami for more than a third of every season.

 

Second, I don't like the format where 1 team gets a bye out of 7

 

Third, yeah, a division winner hosting an 11-6 team.  Not sure I want to change that.

 

It stinks when one division is universally bad for a period of time (sometimes chronically) while another division might be stuck with Payton manning or brady for 15 years.  The 3rd wild card helps with that a little bit.

 

 

 

If I were to do anything, I'd want to refresh the divisions somewhat.  Rivalries in the nfl are all based on who is fighting for the top of the division, and who is at the top of the conference for a block of seasons.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7 by May Day 10

[CheshireCT]

I like the fun of the division rivalries, and would be sad to see that go away. I don't think it's a worthwhile elimination on the grounds of "fairness." No matter how you slice it, sports are never truly fair, and every team still has to go through the same system to get to the Super Bowl. Even if you eliminate the divisions, some teams are going to have easy schedules, hard schedules, etc...

Edited January 7 by CheshireCT

[bobobonators]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Never happening. You might get 3 votes from owners if you are lucky.

 

They could simply have the team with the better record hosting the game and leave the divisions the way they are.

That would still leave open the very likely possibility that a team with a better record misses the playoffs. As long as the division winner automatically makes the playoffs, that possibility will always remain. 
 

In 2022 - the 8-9 Bucs made the playoffs and hosted a playoff game. The 9-8 Lions didn’t make the playoffs. 
 

In 2020 - the 7-9 Football Team made the playoffs and hosted a home game. The 8-8 Cardinals missed the playoffs. 
 

In 2019 - the 11-5 Seahawks missed the playoffs yet the 10-6 Vikings made it and the 9-7 Eagles hosted a playoff game!  This is a perfect example of why divisions need to go. 
 

In 2015 - the 10-6 Jets missed the playoffs. The 9-7 Texans hosted a playoff game. 
 

In 2014 - the 7-8-1 Panthers hosted a playoff game, the 8-8 Niners and 10-6 Eagles missed the playoffs lol. Another perfect example. 
 

I can continue. It doesn’t happen every single season, but it happens a lot. And it will continue happening as long as we keep this division format. 

Edited January 7 by bobobonators

[SoCal Deek]

The only thing that obviously needs to change is the Bills being banned from visiting Arrowhead for the next decade or so. 😉

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

No thanks. A lot of great football is played between division rivals, and those rivalries are a part of what makes sports worth viewing. 

[Dopey]

13 hours ago, bobobonators said:

All fair points. 
 

My main motivation would be to reduce the amount of schedule bias, and to ensure a team won’t make the playoffs over a team who has a better record. Let alone get a home game in the playoffs over a team who had a better record. 

This is not meant to be a pro Bills thread. Just speaking in general terms about the NFL playoff picture 

I am curious why this thread wasn’t posted during our run of 3 straight Afce championships. It can’t be a coincidence. 

[Orlando Tim]

I generally like the divisions and guarantee they will not be disappearing because division games can make game matter at the end of  seasons that would not otherwise matter. It also allows teams to sell merchandise as division winners and therefore more money. Lastly I am ok with it because with 3 wild cards if you have one of the 4 best records in your conference you are in the playoffs. That means simply being top 25% in your conference you are guaranteed a playoff spot, which is more than reasonable. 

[bobobonators]

14 minutes ago, CheshireCT said:

I like the fun of the division rivalries, and would be sad to see that go away. I don't think it's a worthwhile elimination on the grounds of "fairness." No matter how you slice it, sports are never truly fair, and every team still has to go through the same system to get to the Super Bowl. Even if you eliminate the divisions, some teams are going to have easy schedules, hard schedules, etc...

But that’s the thing, under the current system every team does not have to go through the same system to get to the Super Bowl. As an example, we could look at the division that draws the NFC South vs a team in a division that draws the AFC East. Imagine you are the Chargers and next year you drew all AFC East teams vs being the Texans who draw all NFC South teams. Who would you rather play an additional 4 games? It’s not the same system - it’s not even close. And that’s not even addressing the remaining fact that some teams play in crappy divisions vs teams that play in stacked divisions. 
 

Playing under the same system, as you say, would eliminate the current divisional format and have 2 conferences where everyone plays each other 1x. No schedule bias, no luck of drawing a crappy division to play that season, and certainly no more 8-7-1 teams hosting a playoff game while a 10-6 team stays home. 

26 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I am curious why this thread wasn’t posted during our run of 3 straight Afce championships. It can’t be a coincidence. 

This is not a novel idea. Because I didn’t post it years ago doesn’t remove merit from the idea now. 

[bobobonators]

2 hours ago, DrBob806 said:

...edit

 

" in part, due to a great coach & QB"

 

C'mon, do better.

I said in part not solely because. The division you’re in plays a huge factor in deciding #1 seed. 

[DrBob806]

16 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

I said in part not solely because. The division you’re in plays a huge factor in deciding #1 seed. 

True. 6 potential wins for everybody.

 

All this "divisional imbalance" stuff is sour grapes. It's cyclical ..just a few seasons ago (2019)the most hyped division of all time, the NFC East was a joke, won by the Eagles at 9-7. Forward to 2022, the entire division was strong ( Washington finished 4th at 8-8-1).

 

No system will ever be perfect, but the NFL's scheduling system as presently constructed is brilliant. Probably because it wasn't Roger Goodells 's idea lol. 

 

I wouldn't change a thing, although I must admit I think 7 playoff teams per conference is too many. 

[Shaw66]

No.

[Freak-O]

Divisions like these is such an American thing. I haven’t seen anything like it anywhere else. It is rather silly in a way but also has its charm, so I would vote for keeping them.