Buffalo / Philly Postgame thread

[SWATeam]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

Team loss. I can see blaming coaches and players. Offense minus the Allen interception was as good as you could want. Defense had struggles at the end but without their turnovers in the 1st half we might not have gotten the points we got. Kicker had one blocked and one missed FG, easy to blame him for the loss. Refs, I just can't. The no horse collar/intentional grounding is just inexcusable on every level. 30 yard difference maker as it could be debated lead to the blocked FG. It's frustrating as a fan. I get why people want changes but too many questions what a new coaching staff could do to improve this team as there could be a major influx of change next year due to aging players, guys we can't afford to re-sign etc. 

The offense left a lot of meat on the bone in the first half+ when the defense was dominant.  The game should have been put away.

[boco357]

Low on totem pole but when does Dodson stop getting reps? Seems always out of place.  I am willing to give Dorian Williams a chance his ceiling is defintely higher even though he may make some mistakes too.

Edited November 27, 2023 by boco357

[wppete]

 

[nucci]

I was told eagles would have a big letdown from an emotional Monday night win on the road and a short week of prep. we were getting them at the right time. Guess we can get rid of the cliches now. 

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

The offense left a lot of meat on the bone in the first half+ when the defense was dominant.  The game should have been put away.

They were playing in bad weather, on the road against the team with the best record in football.  A 17 - 7 lead was a great first half by the offense. 

 

Why so many on 2BD are quick to call out the O for minor issues while ignoring the D for major ones is beyond me.  The D has received the lions share of resources over the last 7 years and is coached by a supposed defensive guru.  The Bills are 9 - 3 today with even competent defensive play.

 

 

[sonyab1974]

I hope they get better after bye week!!! They have to win 4 more games to get to the playoffs right? So by the time bye week is over they better snap out of it!

Edited November 27, 2023 by sonyab1974

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Jerboski said:

Josh Allen has given them 4 times a lead at the end to watch Sean botch it with the defense 

 

jets, pats, broncos, eagles 

 

Sean cannot stop anyone when it matters…. We saw it with the chiefs when we had a Super Bowl roster 

 

he is not the guy, he just isn’t…. He did a great job building this up, but he has peaked and it’s not Super Bowl worthy 

 

we are wasting the best player we are gonna have for 50 years… just sad 

After several seasons of consistently blowing leads at the end of the game the HC should fire the DC this week!

 

On another note, at the end of last season I bought into the idea the problem was Leslie Frazier and I owe the man an apology.  

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Believer said:

Hero Ball is a losing proposition…

 

Just review Allen’s last passes in OT last night and a few of our other heartbreaking losses this season… 

 

For as often as he is poised in the clutch and delivers… Allen just as often chokes under the pressure of having to play Hero Ball… He’s only slightly better than average at it, imo…

 

Brady needs to call a full winning game of Boring Ball… and McD needs to field a late game D that doesn’t choke…

 

Fans will prefer wins to drama every time… if it produces post season play.

 

 

Allen did not choke last night.  Not at all.  He was phenomenal.  The idea that he is somehow responsible for this after putting up 400+ yards plus four touchdowns on the road in driving, cold rain against the reigning NFC champs and the current market leader in the NFL with an OC who is in his second week on the job after a mid-season change is patently absurd.   And this was, what, the third time this year he walked off the field ahead and the defense blew the game (NE, Denver, Philly).  Win two of those games and we’re sitting at 8-4 and absolutely in the mix.  This year is squarely on McD.  He bit off more than he could chew and here we are.  

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

After several seasons of consistently blowing leads at the end of the game the HC should fire the DC this week!

 

On another note, at the end of last season I bought into the idea the problem was Leslie Frazier and I owe the man an apology.  

Both things can be true.  Frazier was a problem, and now McD is a problem.  McD simply failed to solve said problem. 

[Bruffalo]

27 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

Completely willing to give Von a pass due to the injury.

 

What's not acceptable is that the coaching staff, either Washington or McDermott, keeps thinking it's a good idea to trot him out there week after week so he can do less than nothing.  

 

Rehab is done on the sidelines, not in the game.  He's had multiple games to ramp up, it hasn't happened, that's okay. Injuries are what they are.  It's not okay to put your head in the sand and put out ineffective players on your defense. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

43 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

The offense left a lot of meat on the bone in the first half+ when the defense was dominant.  The game should have been put away.

Stop with this BS. It’s been the defense all year it’s been the defense for years now. That’s the problem. This offense has been the only thing keeping this team good and this POS defense can’t ever make a stop or hold a lead. It’s McDermott and it’s his defense. The game should have been put away with several 2 score leads or any of the extra chances they got after the offense re took the lead. Just like NE, just like the jets, just like the broncos, ***** this defense. McDermott is the problem fire him today 

[stuvian]

I think the Eagles are a great team and there is no shame in losing a close one to a great team. There was a lot that I liked aside from going toe to toe with the number one team in the NFL and an all-world performance by Josh. I thought Rousseau had some dynamite plays. In the past I have thought that our DL was too light and skinny but on several plays they ran Hurts down. This bodes well for facing running QBs. Our OL did a great job of giving Josh a long pocket. When we decided to run, we ran well, especially in the third quarter. It was exciting to see us finally play cold weather football well.

 

But in the face of the rest of the season this feels like just another close loss. The unforgiveable shame was losing to the Patriots. Then we put up a lame effort against Cincy who we have seen much of and should know well by now. We apparently learned nothing from those losses and now the Bengals own us like a Bambino curse. Then we lose to a well coached but ordinarily talented Broncos team.

 

Other than Miami, we have not beaten a quality opponent but have played down to the level of our worst opponents. We have not built a winning culture of accountability. Instead we play politics by firing coordinators while waiting for Josh and Diggs to bail us out until we get it right. Our defense has zero leadership or impact players that the opposition has to account for. 

 

The window is closing. We have grossly overestimated our talent and coasted while the rest of the conference got younger and faster. 

 

Still some part of me wants to believe we can run the table and back in to the post-season. With KC, Dallas and Miami looming I just don't see it. We haven't earned it. We haven't learned how to win games where we are clearly the better team.

 

Watching us take the Eagles to the brink only reinforces what could have been and should have been had we built a better culture. It is especially painful knowing that we have a great QB in his prime with enough weapons to routinely score thirty points a game. 

 

No I don't want to fire everyone yesterday. We rotated a lot of coaches through during the decade of fail to no avail. We need to see the rest of the season play out before going all David Tepper and installing an AI program to coach human beings.

[Dablitzkrieg]

[CodeMonkey]

33 minutes ago, nucci said:

I was told eagles would have a big letdown from an emotional Monday night win on the road and a short week of prep. we were getting them at the right time. Guess we can get rid of the cliches now. 

They did play poorly for them.  The Bills just over achieved in the "oh yeah, hold my beer" department.

[SectionC3]

14 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Stop with this BS. It’s been the defense all year it’s been the defense for years now. That’s the problem. This offense has been the only thing keeping this team good and this POS defense can’t ever make a stop or hold a lead. It’s McDermott and it’s his defense. The game should have been put away with several 2 score leads or any of the extra chances they got after the offense re took the lead. Just like NE, just like the jets, just like the broncos, ***** this defense. McDermott is the problem fire him today 

This gets us back to offense v defense friction after 13 seconds.  It’s going go be a problem until the D starts to close tight games or until McD leaves. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

This gets us back to offense v defense friction after 13 seconds.  It’s going go be a problem until the D starts to close tight games or until McD leaves. 

This team has no shot to go anywhere with this defense. It’s the scheme and it’s the coach. We aren’t making the playoffs and we will never win big against the good teams with this. McDermott is the problem, the defense and the scheme is the problem. It’s too predictable it’s too easy for the accurate passers. The Bengals show you all you need to know. They laugh as they easily carve the thing to shreds. Even Mac Jones did. This guy needs to leave.

[BearNorth]

Playoff simulator says we have a 15% chance of getting the 7th wild card. 

 

If we win out [unlikely] we have a 98% of making the playoffs at 11-6

 

If we lose only to the Cowboys, and wind up 10-7, we only have a 65% chance.

 

Any AFC loss would basically mean game over.

[dorquemada]

We'll see what the coming weeks have in store but I said after the denver loss that the wheels were off.  Beating the Jets was an aberration.   We are not going to win another game this year, we'll watch the KC game, i expect most of the vets are going to phone it in.  One can hardly blame them as Coach McDurr will always find a way to lose.  Also, are there any scrap heap kickers out there?  Bass cannot be relied upon any longer, and that's a shame.  Maybe Reichard from Alabama in the draft?  He's been clutch.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

3 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Playoff simulator says we have a 15% chance of getting the 7th wild card. 

 

If we win out [unlikely] we have a 98% of making the playoffs at 11-6

 

If we lose only to the Cowboys, and wind up 10-7, we only have a 65% chance.

 

Any AFC loss would basically mean game over.

Game was over after the broncos loss. One which we accidentally won but the coach couldn’t count. You could have put 7 guys on the field for that play, in fact it might have been smart to dare them to somehow not kick or something. We are done. Nothing else needs to be thought. Save yourself the reopening of wounds. It’s over.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[Heels20X6]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Why the hell is Diggs off of the field on 3rd downs?  We get to see Sherfield run incorrect routes instead.  Makes perfect sense

 

He's dealing with neck/shoulder injuries and they're limiting his snaps so as not to make it worse.

 

If Diggs gets hurt and is out, the season is more than over.

[BADOLBILZ]

55 minutes ago, nucci said:

I was told eagles would have a big letdown from an emotional Monday night win on the road and a short week of prep. we were getting them at the right time. Guess we can get rid of the cliches now. 

 

 

They got a flat Philly team but they came out anxious and sloppy and committed 10 penalties and had about 10 more unforced errors in the first half and missed the opportunity to put the napping Eagles away.    Should have scored 28 or more on that listless Eagles defense in the first half.    Get the Eagles out of their run game and Hurts can't make the tight window throws to beat you.   

[BearNorth]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

Also, are there any scrap heap kickers out there?  Bass cannot be relied upon any longer, and that's a shame.  Maybe Reichard from Alabama in the draft?  He's been clutch.

Bass has a $7.5MM Cap hit in 2024.  Looks like we're stuck with him, given all the other dead cap we will be eating [e.g. Miller, White, ?Elam?]

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, BearNorth said:

Bass has a $7.5MM Cap hit in 2024.  Looks like we're stuck with him, given all the other dead cap we will be eating [e.g. Miller, White, ?Elam?]

 

Yeah if they got rid of all the miserable failures on the roster right now not even sure we could field a full roster.  oh well!

[Yobogoya!]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

 

 

Just to punctuate the difference between Philly front office and ours: we could have had a 28 y/o Haason Reddick for... *checks notes* $5mil less AAV. 

 

He even was a Carolina Panther the year prior. How did McBeane miss out on this guy!! 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Just to punctuate the difference between Philly front office and ours: we could have had a 28 y/o Haason Reddick for... *checks notes* $5mil less AAV. 

 

He even was a Carolina Panther the year prior. How did McBeane miss out on this guy!! 

Miller was on a tear before he blew out his knee…an injury like that could happen to anyone at any time to be fair 

 

it’s not like he was bad since he signed here…the dude was so good the first half of last season 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Yobogoya!]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Miller was on a tear before he blew out his knee…an injury like that could happen to anyone at any time to be fair 

 

it’s not like he was bad since he signed here…the dude was so good the first half of last season 

 

It's not about Miller being bad now after that injury - it's the opportunity cost of who we passed on. 

 

We could have signed Reddick for less and expected similar or even better production long term, due to both age and history. 

 

I like Von, he certainly looked the part before going down. But considering his age, locking him into that much money when there were other options was a huge mistake. I didn't like it compared to other options then, and obviously my opinion hasn't aged poorly. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

27 minutes ago, Heels20X6 said:

 

He's dealing with neck/shoulder injuries and they're limiting his snaps so as not to make it worse.

 

If Diggs gets hurt and is out, the season is more than over.

But it already is

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

It's not about Miller being bad now after that injury - it's the opportunity cost of who we passed on. 

 

We could have signed Reddick for less and expected similar or even better production long term, due to both age and history. 

 

I like Von, he certainly looked the part before going down. But considering his age, locking him into that much money when there were other options was a huge mistake. I didn't like it compared to other options then, and obviously my opinion hasn't aged poorly. 

 

Von was a risky signing, it looked to be smart last year but at what point do we recognize that he's done?  That was embarrassing last night

[BrettFavre]

That game was playoff if not Super Bowl quality. We went punch for punch with a great team amidst one of the worst officiated games I can remember.

 

One of the most extreme differences in potential post-game feeling I can remember.

 

We win? 7-5 into the bye week after mostly dominating a Super Bowl favorite on the road and in great shape to make the playoffs. We're a win in KC away from maybe being the Super Bowl favorite ourselves, Josh being the MVP. We looked every bit of it to me yesterday.

 

But we lost, so now we're almost surely out of the playoffs and having conversations about cleaning house, firing everyone, the window is closed.

 

It's a cruel sport.

[LetzGoBuffalo]

15 hours ago, MWK said:

Sean McDermott is a joke. Wasting one of the best players in the NFL. 

Unreal to think you are blaming McD for the loss yesterday. Get your head out of your ass and realize that the loss came from the guys on the field dropping passes, running the wrong route, and missing kicks. Oh and no to mention the refs having it out for us

[DrDawkinstein]

24 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Just to punctuate the difference between Philly front office and ours: we could have had a 28 y/o Haason Reddick for... *checks notes* $5mil less AAV. 

 

He even was a Carolina Panther the year prior. How did McBeane miss out on this guy!! 

 

I liked Reddick and he was on my FA radar list last year, but coming out of Carolina he was no where near what he is today. Beane would have been taking another flyer on a small time FA hoping for the best. Leonard Floyd was a much better FA prospect this year than Reddick was 2 years ago.

 

Plus, Reddick really wanted to be close to home in New Jersey. Mayyyybe we could have lured him to Buffalo since we're still north east, but we were up against that as well.

 

For what it's worth, Floyd currently has 9.5 sacks, right ahead of Reddick with 8.5.

 

The Eagles absolutely have the best FO and GM in the league, but ours isnt far behind.

Edited November 27, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Dan]

51 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

The Bills need to develop a breakaway jersey for Diggs. The Refs routinely let him get mugged like this with no call.  But a jersey that just rips away once grabbed… 1. He could finish the route and make the catch. And 2. It would be blatantly obvious the DB had a handful of his jersey.  Only problem… they would need a dozen or more jerseys for him every game.   
 

Somehow that was not a penalty. But the Bills DB got called for touching a guy on the arm on 3rd down extending an eventual scoring drive.  Literally touching, in no way was his progress impeded or his jersey pulled.   But that was a drive extending penalty.   Diggs and Allen get there jerseys ripped off…  result penalty on Buffalo.  The refs rigged the game. 
 

The league office needs accountability. 

[BeastMaster]

A great point was made by Michael Irvin...whom I hate, but respect his knowledge on playing WR. He said that if Diggs was the one running that route instead of Gabe, he goes inside like they are supposed to.

 

So many what ifs and what could have beens it's simply unreal

[Yobogoya!]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I liked Reddick and he was on my FA radar list last year, but coming out of Carolina he was no where near what he is today. Beane would have been taking another flyer on a small time FA hoping for the best. Leonard Floyd was a much better FA prospect this year than Reddick was 2 years ago.

 

Plus, Reddick really wanted to be close to home in New Jersey. Mayyyybe we could have lured him to Buffalo since we're still north east, but we were up against that as well.

 

The Eagles absolutely have the best FO and GM in the league, but ours isnt far behind.

 

I get where you're coming from. The Floyd signing was great, maybe one of Beane's top-3 pro personnel moves since he's been here. 

 

But Reddick had 12.5 sacks in Arizona in 2020 and 11 sacks with Carolina in 2021. 

 

For comparison, Von had no sacks in 2020 (due to injury, so if you want to go back he had 8 in 2019) and 9.5 between Den/LA in 2021. 

 

Don't see how Reddick would have been more of a Flyer than Von was that off-season. Considering age and recent injuries, Von was by far the bigger risk in my book. And remember: we're paying Von 5 million more per year than Reddick got. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Yobogoya!

[boco357]

Woof wgr callers today. From make Von Miller the defensive coordinator to cooking with olive oil.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

16 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

It's not about Miller being bad now after that injury - it's the opportunity cost of who we passed on. 

 

We could have signed Reddick for less and expected similar or even better production long term, due to both age and history. 

 

I like Von, he certainly looked the part before going down. But considering his age, locking him into that much money when there were other options was a huge mistake. I didn't like it compared to other options then, and obviously my opinion hasn't aged poorly. 

I mean ‘huge mistake’ and ‘my opinion hasn’t aged poorly’ only really makes sense when you factor in his knee injury.  Von was an absolute game wrecker last season before going down.  I would’ve said you were very wrong up until the knee injury and who knows how he’s doing in the alternate reality where he’s got two good knees right now 😁

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I mean ‘huge mistake’ and ‘my opinion hasn’t aged poorly’ only really makes sense when you factor in his knee injury.  Von was an absolute game wrecker last season before going down.  I would’ve said you were very wrong up until the knee injury and who knows how he’s doing in the alternate reality where he’s got two good knees right now 😁

 

I'll say it again for you: a huge mistake when you factor in the opportunity cost of who else we passed on and how much we signed him for. 

 

Von was playing well last year, no doubt. Could we have also signed another player who would have played well? Would that player have cost as much or less? 

 

There's no crystal ball that would have told us Von's injury was a certainty, but for a 33 y/o edge rusher, you have to think about how much money you're tying up with him to gamble on his maintaining that high level of form for another 2-3 years. I just don't think that was the right contract for the right player at the right time, regardless of hindsight. 

 

Frankly, I would have rather traded for Von in 2021 when he was available. Worked out well for the Rams, while our pass rush floundered vs. KC when we needed it. 

[KCNC]

43 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Just to punctuate the difference between Philly front office and ours: we could have had a 28 y/o Haason Reddick for... *checks notes* $5mil less AAV. 

 

He even was a Carolina Panther the year prior. How did McBeane miss out on this guy!! 

Maybe the Bills wanted Reddick but perhaps he did not want to play in BUF?

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

Obv McDermott needs to go, cook needs to stop making costly mistakes,  and the defense collapsed yet again,  but lost in all of this is Tyler Bass and the poor season he is slowly putting together and our punter:

 

Bass is 28th/32 in FG %
And
Our punter is 31st/32 in punt avg. and net avg.

 

 

Is the special teams coordinator the next scapegoat ?

[Gregg]

Just now, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:

Obv McDermott needs to go, cook needs to stop making costly mistakes,  and the defense collapsed yet again,  but lost in all of this is Tyler Bass and the poor season he is slowly putting together and our punter:

 

Bass is 28th/32 in FG %
And
Our punter is 31st/32 in punt avg. and net avg.

 

 

Is the special teams coordinator the next scapegoat ?

 

This is a good point. With the bye week now, I could see the Bills bringing in a kicker if Bass isn't getting it done. He didn't yesterday.

[MikePJ76]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I liked Reddick and he was on my FA radar list last year, but coming out of Carolina he was no where near what he is today. Beane would have been taking another flyer on a small time FA hoping for the best. Leonard Floyd was a much better FA prospect this year than Reddick was 2 years ago.

 

Plus, Reddick really wanted to be close to home in New Jersey. Mayyyybe we could have lured him to Buffalo since we're still north east, but we were up against that as well.

 

For what it's worth, Floyd currently has 9.5 sacks, right ahead of Reddick with 8.5.

 

The Eagles absolutely have the best FO and GM in the league, but ours isnt far behind.

The best front offices win super bowls and play in a lot of them.  

 

Howie roseman has made some excellent moves but I mean before he is declared the best shouldn't they win some championships?  You could make the case the Rams have been much better in the front office, GM and Head Coach than the eagles have been.