What’s your opinion of Gabe Davis on this play?

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You don't think his speed and quickness on that play are subpar?  

 

Don't get me wrong,  this play also illustrates the STRENGTH of his game........getting open 4-5 seconds WAY downfield after the snap..........but it IS also actually an example of him being subpar at the same time.

 

He's probably the slowest "deep threat" in the NFL.    Do I think he should have scored a TD?  No, but I'd characterize that as zero or negative RAC yards above expectation.   We just don't expect him to gain yards after the catch with a defender behind him(regardless of leverage/positioning) so we are not as surprised in hindsight.   If that was any other Bills receiver we'd all be lamenting the lack of speed.   The audible gasp of disappointment in the stadium when he got tackled so quickly speaks louder than words on the subject.

Gabe's speed is indeed subpar. That's not who he ever was, though. There's a distinct difference between being a deep threat and being a "speed guy". If memory serves Davis was a 4.5 guy coming out of college. He's not noted for break away speed. 

 

Mike Williams for the Chargers is a 4.5 guy that can get open deep....and he's not running away from guys either.

[starrymessenger]

20 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

$20? 

What I've seen as estimates 20-24 per

Of course that may just be the line coming from his camp. They say he needs to be paid like a top end #1 receiver.

[Low Positive]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

What I've seen as estimates 20-24 per

Of course that may just be the line coming from his camp. They say he needs to be paid like a top end #1 receiver.

That's the biggest bargain ever!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Gabe's speed is indeed subpar. That's not who he ever was, though. There's a distinct difference between being a deep threat and being a "speed guy". If memory serves Davis was a 4.5 guy coming out of college. He's not noted for break away speed. 

 

Mike Williams for the Chargers is a 4.5 guy that can get open deep....and he's not running away from guys either.

Gabe Dave lacks speed, can’t catch, not an elite route runner, not a contested catch guy.

 

What is he? He does nothing above average skill wise. I would almost say he’s below average skill wise at almost everything.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[starrymessenger]

Just now, Low Positive said:

That's the biggest bargain ever!

Get'er done! 

[Rigotz]

Every WR has their strengths.

 

Gabe Davis is not great at getting separation ... or YAC ... or route running ... or catching ...

 

Ok, so he kind of sucks, but what I'm trying to say is he's decent at deep routes, field awareness, and blocking.

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Gabe Dave lacks speed, can’t catch, not an elite route runner, not a contested catch guy.

 

What is he? He does nothing above average skill wise. I would almost say he’s below average skill wise at almost everything.

And that's all an opinion that has a valid argument. You still used a terrible play to clutch the pearls on. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Dan]

This is exactly what’s wrong with this place lately and why it’s becoming less and less of a place to come and get Bills news and discussion.  
 

Too many people manufacture issues and make stuff up to prove some point they made up.   Now we’re picking plays that are good.  He ran the route he was supposed to.  Josh makes an incredible throw.  Gabe catches the ball and turns upfield for extra yards.  …and that’s the reason you don’t like a player!?   
 

This thread is emblematic of the state of this franchise among the fan base (at least here).  There is soooo very little actual discussion of the team here lately.  Just people with axes to grind and using every instance possible to restate their disdain for everything in the organization. 
 

 

[uticaclub]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

This is exactly what’s wrong with this place lately and why it’s becoming less and less of a place to come and get Bills news and discussion.  
 

Too many people manufacture issues and make stuff up to prove some point they made up.   Now we’re picking plays that are good.  He ran the route he was supposed to.  Josh makes an incredible throw.  Gabe catches the ball and turns upfield for extra yards.  …and that’s the reason you don’t like a player!?   
 

This thread is emblematic of the state of this franchise among the fan base (at least here).  There is soooo very little actual discussion of the team here lately.  Just people with axes to grind and using every instance possible to restate their disdain for everything in the organization. 
 

 

that's kind of the point

[RyanC883]

Yeah, as others said, likely not a TD, but going toward the sideline and not the middle, where everyone is, was very odd/lack of awareness.  

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Are you ok with the result or do you think this should’ve been a much bigger play?

 

To me this is exactly why I believe he’s not good enough. Davis runs a simple route vs zone. Allen makes an unbelievable throw setting up what I believe should’ve been a long TD.

 

 

 

What this is more of an indicator of is exactly why Josh is both special and can throw some INT's.  There are not a lot of guys in the NFL who can make this throw, maybe only Allen and Mahomes can do it with any consistency.  Most other QB's this is a guaranteed turnover as the margin of error is tiny and you need the arm and athleticism to even make it possible without it being a turnover.  

 

When Allen is on, he hits these all day and so easy that it's almost missed just how incredible and difficult of a throw it was.  When he is off by even a hair or late by even a hair this would be one of his INT plays.   

 

And the reality is Josh makes a LOT of these throws...and he succeeds way more often than doesn't on them.  It is what makes him special.  What makes him turnover prone is how OFTEN he HAS to attempt these throws because of the offense.  That does not absolve Allen at all on some of his decisions, but the fact is, when the play design, scheme, etc is so easy to defend, it forces Allen to make more of these heroic throws.  Look at Mahomes, he has the ability to make most of the same insane throws Allen does, he is just forced to do it less often than Allen is either from scheme, design, predictability, pass protection, etc.  

 

I am really hoping to see some more creativity and scheming to get guys open for easier and rhythmic throws by Allen instead of rolling out and having to fling a mind blowing pass so often.  

[947]

Gabe was great on that play, until... he seemingly intentionally runs directly into the nearest tackler. Even if he doesn't have the speed to outrun the other tacklers, he gets another 10 yards minimum if he just runs away from the inside tackler instead of into his waiting arms.

 

I was watching the game with my son who is a HS QB. As that play happened, we both looked at each other & simultaneously said that looks just like something one particular receiver on his team constantly does. The kid is a decent WR, but almost never gets YAC. He tries some stupid cutback, runs right into a tackler & gets dropped, that stuff doesn't work with average speed. It's infuriating, just run toward the damn daylight.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

Gabe Davis is not going to run away from a bunch of NFL DB's.

They are just too fast.

which is why he’s not truly the deep threat that the board once made him out to be

 

but underneath he doesn’t have the agility/hands to be the possession guy

 

hes unfortunately a tweener that is good enough to play in the league but doesn’t fill any role at a high enough level to truly keep a DC up at night figuring out how to contain him. You just tell your DB to not fall down, and you are generally safe.

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

Every WR has their strengths.

 

Gabe Davis is not great at getting separation ... or YAC ... or route running ... or catching ...

 

Ok, so he kind of sucks, but what I'm trying to say is he's decent at deep routes, field awareness, and blocking.

and even field awareness can be spotty. Sometimes you catch him running to weird spots when the play breaks down. 
 

he’s the fine enough at everything guy. He’s Singletary at running back, but a much more important position. 

[DuckyBoys]

he is acceptable just not a difference maker  If Beane resigns him I will; be extremely pissed

[JoshAllin]

I want to see Shakir running these routes, he gets a TD

[Livinginthepast]

I think he should have definitely picked up more yards before going down but Gabe is just not that fast. Is Harty the fastest guy on the Bills? He might have been able to to explode out of there.

 

But the throw by Allen is awesome there. This is what makes people think that there is some not right with his shoulder because he is obviously capable of amazingly accurate fastballs like this but then at other times throws up a beachball. 

[Mark Vader]

4 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

he is acceptable just not a difference maker  If Beane resigns him I will; be extremely pissed

If Beane re-signs him, I think it'll only be a one year deal.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

And that's all an opinion that has a valid argument. You still used a terrible play to clutch the pearls on. 🤷🏼‍♂️

It’s the perfect play. Some think it’s a good play. Thats why it’s perfect to show his full mediocrity.

11 minutes ago, motorj said:

I want to see Shakir running these routes, he gets a TD

I think he at least makes the defense work for the tackle.

[DapperCam]

That pass is to the house with any of Tua’s WR.

 

I think my comment in the game day thread was something like “If Davis wasn’t slower than my grandma that would have been a TD.”

[julian]

I wouldn’t pay him a dime, let him walk and try to address this properly in the draft.

[reddogblitz]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There are a lot of examples of Davis being subpar. This to me isn't one of them. 

 

He actually found a good spot to sit in the zone, caught the ball and turned upfield for some YAC. This was a good play. 

 

The places where he HASN'T been good enough are when he's cutting off routes and Allen is seeing something different.

 

How do we know Gabe is wrong to cut off his route and not that Josh is misreading?

 

I keep hearing this, Gabe is cutting off his routes.  Maybe he was supposed to but Josh misreads the coverage.

 

Really I have no idea which it is.

 

I think it may be because teams have our O figured out and are fooling us with their coverage.

Edited November 17, 2023 by reddogblitz

[Straight Hucklebuck]

One of the few big plays the Bills had in that game. 

 

Did a good job to sit, catch, turn upfield, didn't fumble. 

[Goin Breakdown]

Is Gabe like at Josh Reed drop level?  The last player I remember getting the rep of "drops guy" was Reed. I know I could look up stats but that's boring. 

[FilthyBeast]

Davis is a strange cat to figure out because at times he's looked like a legit #2 NFL WR in this league, others a fringe type player.

 

But on this particular play I have no issues. At this point though glad he wasn't resigned to a massive extension which many speculated Beane would do before (or during) this season.

 

At this point it's probably a safe bet that he's all but gone after this year and knowing this teams luck he'll sign with someone like the Chiefs on the cheap and finally explode into what we all thought he would be in Buffalo.

[ChrisWatson#21]

7 hours ago, somnus00 said:

To the people who don't think Josh is elite... this throw is ridiculous.

He is a freak of nature.  The problems are when his hero ball style blows up.  Josh has a lot of pressure on him because of the lack of real talent around and it was the same for him in Wyoming yet he still excelled.  He is the least of the problems.  They need to find a solid RB and a reliable #2 this offseason.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Would have been great if they didn’t fumble on the next play.

[Nephilim17]

Didn't notice a problem as first but, yeah, some WRs will get a lot more YAC or even go the distance. Not the worst example, however, of why Davis is not acceptable as WR2. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Is Gabe like at Josh Reed drop level?  The last player I remember getting the rep of "drops guy" was Reed. I know I could look up stats but that's boring. 

 

Did you miss the whole Stevie Johnson thing?

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Did you miss the whole Stevie Johnson thing?

Stevie didn't drop that ball. God made him do it. 

[Low Positive]

3 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Is Gabe like at Josh Reed drop level?  The last player I remember getting the rep of "drops guy" was Reed. I know I could look up stats but that's boring. 

I know that this is not going to agree with what your eyes are telling you, but Gabe only has been credited with 3 drops this year. Tyreek leads the league with 8 in one fewer game. Rookie sensation Puka Nacua has 7. The really alarming thing is rookie Jaxon Smith-Njigba has 6 drops on only 48 targets. That is a drop percentage of 12.5, the highest among WRs.  

Edited November 17, 2023 by Low Positive

[Drew21PA]

Idk but that was one of those 

 

“only Allen can do that” throw 

 

goodness is right 

[PBF81]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Probably could have angled toward the sideline more after catch for a couple extra yards. But I'm just glad he caught it.

 

My thoughts as well.  Once he gets past the Corner he may as well turn outside, at least that way he can keep his momentum going with only the S to beat for a longer gain or TD.  

 

Who knows whether he had that lattitude.  

 

Fine play though.  

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by PBF81

[BlazinBill]

Opinion on this play is for me what it's always been - as a third/fourth option he's clutch - as a WR2 he's never going to stand out with any type of consistency 

[T master]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:40 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Are you ok with the result or do you think this should’ve been a much bigger play?

 

To me this is exactly why I believe he’s not good enough. Davis runs a simple route vs zone. Allen makes an unbelievable throw setting up what I believe should’ve been a long TD.

 

 

 

That was a 32 yd play ? Not being greedy much are we ? 

 

It has been shown how Gabe can be used the best and that was in the Tampa game the guy was money ! Then move him around to include plays like that easily 32 yd play that should have went for maybe 50+ instead & his strengths with in the scheme will be welcomed .

 

I listened to Orlovsky the other day on 1 Bills Live & on McAfee he said that the Bills offense wouldn't used what worked in a lot of cases from team to team when scheming for the next opponent & that seems to be about right .

 

In the games where the offense did move the ball easy like the Tampa game they didn't incorporate any of that in the next game plan. when the run game is working they seem to go away from it, when Josh is under center & moving the ball they put him in shot gun .

 

Very frustrating to watch & then to coral Josh & not have a certain amount of QB runs in the game plan is just foolish when in the past he has been that guy in the run game . He doesn't have to run every other play but it's apparent they have pulled the reigns back on him so he's & the offense is easier to keep bottled up .

[oldmanfan]

Let's not get ridiculous looking for things to criticize.

[Goin Breakdown]

15 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I know that this is not going to agree with what your eyes are telling you, but Gabe only has been credited with 3 drops this year. Tyreek leads the league with 8 in one fewer game. Rookie sensation Puka Nacua has 7. The really alarming thing is rookie Jaxon Smith-Njigba has 6 drops on only 48 targets. That is a drop percentage of 12.5, the highest among WRs.  

Dang only 3. I'm sure I'm wrong as My wife tell me all the time, but I swear he's dropped more than 3. Maybe when a ball sails through his hands isn't a drop? I'm not going to question as you've looked it up and I didn't lol. Maybe it just more than that with him. Him and josh just don't seem on the same page. 

[C.Biscuit97]

You could do this for every player on the the team if you cared too. 

[Mr. WEO]

terrible 37 yard pickup right there....

[SWATeam]

16 hours ago, Drew21PA said:

Idk but that was one of those 

 

“only Allen can do that” throw 

 

goodness is right 

I am so done caring about the wow plays.  All I want to see are the boring plays that every QB can make, being made consistently.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Not many WRs in the NFL will make that a TD. He ran a great route. Sat down in the zone and made the catch and still got some YAC. 

He was bracketed by two DBs so he didn't have an angle to build up any speed from a dead stop.

It was a good solid play. Sure Tyreek can take that all the way but not many other guys will outrun two DBs